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Tattoos and Piercings: Self-mutilation for self-expression?
Decadence
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I didn't want to hijack the gaming tattoos thread so much so I'll start one here.
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I've never understood Western cultures' obsession with piercings and tattoos.
We are a culture that abhors recreational drugs and smoking in public, but are totally fine with injecting chemicals under and putting small metal objects through our skins.
If there is one form of completely irrational behavior that is socially-accepted - and encouraged even, in some circles - I would say it is getting tattoos and piercings. The reason I call it irrational is because it is essentially self-mutilation for the sake of looking cool and/or being accepted by others. Irrational, and uncivilized. Make fun of me if you wish, but my mind cannot even begin to comprehend why one would put a mark on their body that will stay with them for a lifetime.
Among the extreme ends of incredulity are those who get tattoos symbolizing momentary obsessions - current girlfriends, hobbies, trends, etc.
Piercings are even more horrid. Why do people feel like putting a ring through their nose, or their eye brow? It really really really does not improve the way they look.
Let's not even get into the risk of infections and various forms of skin and cartilage cancer that are induced by these foreign chemicals and objects.
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I've never understood Western cultures' obsession with piercings and tattoos.
We are a culture that abhors recreational drugs and smoking in public, but are totally fine with injecting chemicals under and putting small metal objects through our skins.
If there is one form of completely irrational behavior that is socially-accepted - and encouraged even, in some circles - I would say it is getting tattoos and piercings. The reason I call it irrational is because it is essentially self-mutilation for the sake of looking cool and/or being accepted by others. Irrational, and uncivilized. Make fun of me if you wish, but my mind cannot even begin to comprehend why one would put a mark on their body that will stay with them for a lifetime.
Among the extreme ends of incredulity are those who get tattoos symbolizing momentary obsessions - current girlfriends, hobbies, trends, etc.
Piercings are even more horrid. Why do people feel like putting a ring through their nose, or their eye brow? It really really really does not improve the way they look.
Let's not even get into the risk of infections and various forms of skin and cartilage cancer that are induced by these foreign chemicals and objects.
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Since when? Smoking and drug use are incredibly common, and have been for most of human history, current legislation notwithstanding. That's rather historically ignorant, not to mention puritanical, viewpoint.
Mutilation implies loss of bodily function as a result of injury or change. You want to condemn people who think they need to chop off their own limbs, go for your life, but my holey earlobes aren't stopping me leading a normal existence, kiddo. And hell, I can't comprehend why you're apparently obsessed with how other people choose to decorate themselves, but I'm not going to hold you down and jam a needle through your eyebrow.
Translation: God, those lower-class people are so gauche. My WASPY ass is much more stylish.
Subjective judgement that you fail to realise isn't a universal opinion. Otherwise no-one would have them, genius. Think it through.
Ok, lets not, given that they're incredibly rare and easily avoided.
Was there any point to this besides you demonstrating your intolerance?
It's hardly just Western culture; I'm pretty sure that most cultures have some kind of body alteration, many far more extreme than 'just' piercings and tatoos.
I'll be fine, just give me a minute, a man's got a limit, I can't get a life if my heart's not in it.
All of them, pretty much. Piercing, tats, scarification, jewellery, painting, are all longstanding rituals, often closely associated with passage though various life stages.
YouTube link, if you don't have a copy.
It's not really all that small anymore. It seems like every other person I run into has a tattoo nowadays...though of course the first poll I found suggests that it's only about 16% (36% among 25-29 year olds, though).
Tattoos are pretty much a universal turn off.
I wouldn't do it to myself personally. The view I take is, "When I am 55 years old, how retarded will this look?"
As retarded as the rest of your flabby, greying body, one assumes.
sure, its mainstreaming (compared to the Victorian era, anyway), but it hardly qualifies as an 'obsession'. Its just another thing people do. I don't see the OP charging into the fashion thread and condemning people as 'obsessed' for liking hoodies, but there's really no functional difference between the two acts.
Its a stupid principle for piercings in particular, barring the ear expanders, because they heal up with barely a mark within a day or so of removal.
Correction: it used to be small. Not anymore.
I'm not talking about legislation. There is a very strong social stigma against smoking and recreational drug use.
What is funny is that I see you passing all sorts of judgments on people on these forums on a day-to-day basis, yet when I do it, it's the end of the world apparently.
Lower-class? Ha, I see what you did there.
Infections may be avoided - to a large extent - using safe and hygienic practices. Cancer, not so much. Besides, dark tattoos make it more difficult to spot things like melanoma.
Well, I wanted to hear other people's opinions, but I guess that is unacceptable here in debade & discourse.
Since I have a tat, I'd be willing to listen to this argument if you can give me some sort of credible estimate as to how often this occurs. I did fairly thorough research beforehand and I don't even remember encountering any warnings of cancer.
Listen precious, you want to dislike these practices, go right ahead. Your entitled to your squickiness. But if you want to come in here and make the argument that all forms of body modification are terrible horrible things that should be condemned, you're going to have to present something a little more compelling than an extended paragraph that can be summed up by the word "eeeewwwwwww!". I'll be waiting.
To be perfectly honest, I could not find any credible evidence of a direct relationship between tattoos and an increase in cancer. There have been some studies that suggest a correlation, but not causation.
However, dark tattoos do make it more difficult to spot various forms of skin cancer. Considering that early diagnosis is crucial to treat those effectively, I would say tattoos pose a rather serious health risk in that area alone.
Also, unless you can show me where a real rising percentage has increased to the point where tattoos and piercings (not including minor ear piercings) has become as HUGE as you say it has, you can go ahead and drop that whole bullet point as well
Third.... Cat, you and I probably don't see eye to eye on a whole hell of a lot, but when we do disagree on an issue my direct argument to support my cause isn't going to be "I just admitted to trolling these forums and seeing you make fun of other people you don't agree with, so go figure you're doing it to me, even though you've just rationally disproven every point I just made.."
And it's not the end of the world that she disagrees, just the end your your twisted logic.
I don't have any actual debate here because I have a tattoo, I enjoy it, plan to get others, and cat pretty much summed up what I think about the issue.
Also, I'd imagine that the "strong stigma" against recreational drug use and smoking depends largely on who you hang out with and what you consider recreational drugs. Alcohol is a damn big one, and it's rather largely societally accepted in the US. To the point where I would venture a guess that refusing to drink even socially is considered a little strange.
Also, t The Cat: I've had my ears pierced for five or six years now, hardly ever wear earrings, and can still wear them when the occasion calls for it. On the other hand, I wore them almost constantly for the first year or so. Just saying that the holes don't necessarily close up, but the do get a whole bunch smaller.
Serious indeed. How many people would you say die every year from skin cancer going unnoticed because of tattoos? I imagine there's quite a body count on this one.
I'll second that... not to derail, but it's a little odd that I could go to a party in college and turn down lines of cocaine because I don't do drugs, but if I didn't play some "drink till you puke" drinking game I was ostrasized, as if one was understandable, and one wasn't accepted.
Especially bitching about -piercings and tatts- of all things when there's scarification, circumcision, plastic surgery, tongue-splitting, eye-inserts, and so on...
Moderation is, of course, always advisable, but body mods are some of the least harmful activities culture has invented. At least within the realm of consent.
how are these better or worse than tattoos? I get your point, but that just sounds a little hypocritical. Maybe I misunderstood, and if I did I apologize.
This is what I ask before getting uppity about any sort of cultural trend.
I think that his main objection may have less to do with the actual modification than the fact that it brings people away from looking a societally accepted way. Theoretically you don't have to know that someone has had plastic surgery, which could be properly called a body modification, while I'm assuming the OP is referring to tat's he can see.
Basically until further notice I'm saying he's taking offense at the permanent change from a more "normal" appearance and not the actual body modification. But I'm also fairly far from the text of any of his posts, so take that with a grain of salt. OP?
also ick eye inserts? wtf?
Piercings and tats are much easier to "fix" than having part of your penis removed.
Same here. You'd only see mine if my shirt was off, and I don't make a habit of walking around shirtless in public. Unless it's a special occasion.
(This was meant to go under Incenj's post up there)
Yes.
I made sure to include it because of this "civilized" bullshit.
Some of that shit just gets ridiculous. Those celebs who get a whole mess o' facelifts? Burt Reynolds looked kinda Asian for a while there, his eyes were so fucked up.
That does seem to be his main objection, though, doesn't it? I can see how tattoos and piercings could be considered "uncivilized" by virtue of their tendency to be associated with coming of age rituals and etc in more tribal societies since forever, but that hardly seems like something that should be pejorative.
Also I fail to see how most tattoos people get in the western world are similar to said ritualistic tattoos in anything except for a tendency towards personal meaning and the basic process of ink under skin. The images are different, the purposes are different, and the entire tool and skillsets are completely different.
Like shirtless thursdays? :winky:
Shit, man. I just call that "Thursday."
I prefer "pants free" saturdays personally, but thursdays are nice too...
Which would only be a problem for people covering huge swaths of their body in dark ink. Most people never do that. They get a dang butterfly on their ankle or a chinese symbol which they are told means "strength" and actually means "constipated". Its also a silly argument because it fails to admit that people are capable of deciding to take that risk all on their lonesome, because they have brains as well. If you're worried about Teh Stealths Cankers, don't get tattooed. You're still failing to argue that they're a universal problem on this axis. Lastly, its a silly argument because you're making a statement that no-one in the medical community appears too fussed about backing up. I would suggest that perhaps there are other, more pressing causes of melanoma like, I don't know, staying out in the sun all day without weraing sunscreen?
Other body modification can be silly or kind of cool. Like anything else. Personally, I'd love to have had the opportunity to have some totally bitchin' rad reminder of my passage into manhood. Also, scarification looks really cool, if incredibly icky. Sure, I might regret getting a Marathon symbol tattooed to my forehead, but what the hell, eh? Tells you something about me. At the very least "wow what a moron."
I think the only thing that keeps me from tattooing is a deep and abiding fear of needles and a very unfocused sense of what I find cool.
Now, the second we get some form of mobile tattoo that I could change when I felt like it, I'll have that on my entire body.
Edit: Also, doctors only tell you that early detection saves lives because they think it's funny to instill false hope.
But seriously, tattooing is right above wearing cloths and right below anything else on the melanoma danger level scale. Hell, "Presence of moles on body" is arguably the most pressing. Should we all get ours remov- oh no body mod!
Hahaha. Oh man, I certainly didn't look like I was tolerating anything when I got this. My sister watched them do it and she says I was making some pretty intense faces.
Ah, you're lucky then. I have to be really careful with my ears.