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Democratic Primaries: Black anger... real?

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    HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    Dear Friend,

    When I heard that Elton John was throwing a concert in New York for my mom's campaign, I knew it was going to be a night I didn't want to miss.

    Want to join me there?

    My mom's campaign is bringing two supporters and their guests to New York on April 9 for both Elton John's one-night-only concert and the party after the concert. It's going to be a great night and a great time.

    It's such an important time to support my mom's campaign. There are big contests coming up, starting with Pennsylvania, and I know she can win with your support. She's working so hard out on the campaign trail, and I know that your support makes a real difference to her and this campaign.

    Enter now and you might join me, my mom, and Elton John for his one-night-only concert in New York on April 9. Make a contribution today.

    I talk to a lot of people who are excited to see my mom win and be the president we all need -- and who are working hard to help make that happen. It means so much to me to know that there are so many people like you who believe in my mom and are working to help her win. I know that she'll be such a great president and she will win, but not without all our help. And what better time to help than right now?

    Please contribute today. Enter and you might be joining me, my mom, and Elton John for a concert in New York!

    I'm so grateful for everything you're doing to help my mom win!
    Thank you!
    Chelsea

    That's vaguely noxious.

    "My mom is super-cool! Vote for her!"

    So...is Chelsea pimping out Elton John now? :P

    The Pimpee becomes the Pimper.

    Houn on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    If the undecided supers start going for Obama Hilary's super will come too. that's more than enough to hit the magic number.

    nexuscrawler on
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    jotatejotate Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Is that Chelsea email real? I'd shell out $5 to hit on Chelsea and ask Hillary face-to-face to stop the madness.

    jotate on
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    Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Blogrunner: Reactions From Around the Web Hillary Clinton may not realize it yet, but she’s just endured one of the worst weeks of her campaign.


    First, Barack Obama weathered the Rev. Jeremiah Wright affair without serious damage to his nomination prospects. Obama still holds a tiny lead among Democrats nationally in the Gallup tracking poll, just as he did before this whole affair blew up.

    Second, Obama’s lawyers successfully prevented re-votes in Florida and Michigan. That means it would be virtually impossible for Clinton to take a lead in either elected delegates or total primary votes.

    Third, as Noam Scheiber of The New Republic has reported, most superdelegates have accepted Nancy Pelosi’s judgment that the winner of the elected delegates should get the nomination. Instead of lining up behind Clinton, they’re drifting away. Her lead among them has shrunk by about 60 in the past month, according to Avi Zenilman of Politico.com.

    In short, Hillary Clinton’s presidential prospects continue to dim. The door is closing. Night is coming. The end, however, is not near.

    Last week, an important Clinton adviser told Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen (also of Politico) that Clinton had no more than a 10 percent chance of getting the nomination. Now, she’s probably down to a 5 percent chance.

    Five percent.

    Let’s take a look at what she’s going to put her party through for the sake of that 5 percent chance: The Democratic Party is probably going to have to endure another three months of daily sniping. For another three months, we’ll have the Carvilles likening the Obamaites to Judas and former generals accusing Clintonites of McCarthyism. For three months, we’ll have the daily round of résumé padding and sulfurous conference calls. We’ll have campaign aides blurting “blue dress” and only-because-he’s-black references as they let slip their private contempt.

    For three more months (maybe more!) the campaign will proceed along in its Verdun-like pattern. There will be a steady rifle fire of character assassination from the underlings, interrupted by the occasional firestorm of artillery when the contest touches upon race, gender or patriotism. The policy debates between the two have been long exhausted, so the only way to get the public really engaged is by poking some raw national wound.

    For the sake of that 5 percent, this will be the sourest spring. About a fifth of Clinton and Obama supporters now say they wouldn’t vote for the other candidate in the general election. Meanwhile, on the other side, voters get an unobstructed view of the Republican nominee. John McCain’s approval ratings have soared 11 points. He is now viewed positively by 67 percent of Americans. A month ago, McCain was losing to Obama among independents by double digits in a general election matchup. Now McCain has a lead among this group.

    For three more months, Clinton is likely to hurt Obama even more against McCain, without hurting him against herself. And all this is happening so she can preserve that 5 percent chance.

    When you step back and think about it, she is amazing. She possesses the audacity of hopelessness.

    Why does she go on like this? Does Clinton privately believe that Obama is so incompetent that only she can deliver the policies they both support? Is she simply selfish, and willing to put her party through agony for the sake of her slender chance? Are leading Democrats so narcissistic that they would create bitter stagnation even if they were granted one-party rule?

    The better answer is that Clinton’s long rear-guard action is the logical extension of her relentlessly political life.

    For nearly 20 years, she has been encased in the apparatus of political celebrity. Look at her schedule as first lady and ever since. Think of the thousands of staged events, the tens of thousands of times she has pretended to be delighted to see someone she doesn’t know, the hundreds of thousands times she has recited empty clichés and exhortatory banalities, the millions of photos she has posed for in which she is supposed to appear empathetic or tough, the billions of politically opportune half-truths that have bounced around her head.

    No wonder the Clinton campaign feels impersonal. It’s like a machine for the production of politics. It plows ahead from event to event following its own iron logic. The only question is whether Clinton herself can step outside the apparatus long enough to turn it off and withdraw voluntarily or whether she will force the rest of her party to intervene and jam the gears.

    If she does the former, she would surprise everybody with a display of self-sacrifice. Her campaign would cruise along at a lower register until North Carolina, then use that as an occasion to withdraw. If she does not, she would soldier on doggedly, taking down as many allies as necessary.

    Ethan Smith on
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    DasBootDasBoot Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Am I the only one who sees parallels between this election and, ironically enough, the 1992 Clinton-Bush election. Except some of the things that were working for HW Bush aren't there for McCain. Namely Bush was coming off of a successful campaign in Iraq, while McCain is trying to support our generally unpopular position in Iraq. But we've got the economy trouble. Not only that, but HW Bush could point to Reagan as a model for his presidency. McCain has to try and both court the Bush presidency while trying to distance himself from the unyielding idiocy.

    So where we are is- we have an old war hero Republican politician who is going to be portrayed as out of touch with reality. We have a young, ultra charismatic Democrat who is being portrayed as having a questionable amount of patriotism, except instead of being called a draft dodger we have the Wright business.

    I mean are we going to have things play out in a similar way if Obama gains the nomination, which he probably will be unless it is discovered that he's a child molester or something.

    DasBoot on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    TheMarshal wrote: »
    At this point if EVERY superdelegate sided with Obama (dumping their support for Hillary in the process, if they've already pledged support) would he reach enough delegates to get the nomination? Or is this thing going to a brokered convention regardless?

    Obama does have a path to 2,024, but it requires more than the superdelegates.

    Obama currently has ~1,625 delegates.
    There are 566 pledged delegates left (60% of which will be allocated before May 6th, from Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Indiana).
    There are ~350 undeclared superdelegates.

    So, if Obama can get 43% of the remaining delegates, he wins.
    If he gets half of the remaining pledged delegates (which is what most people are predicting), he only needs a third of the remaining superdelegates.

    Which is a touch more realistic than Hillary getting 70% of the remaining super delegates to side with her given past trends. Obama's gained, what 60 supers while Clinton's lost 7 ever since Feb 5th?

    moniker on
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    Premier kakosPremier kakos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2008
    Obama: Make a contribution and there's a chance to have dinner with me where we can discuss politics.

    Clinton: LOOK AT ME! Make a contribution and I'll take you to a FREAKING Elton John concert! HOW COOL IS THAT?! THAT'S SO MUCH BETTER THAN A DINNER WITH SOME DUDE.

    I have to be honest... I still prefer the dinner with Obama.

    Premier kakos on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Obama is going to be on the View this Friday. That idea's probably not very thrilling to posters here, but it might be a valuable chance to make inroads into the stubborn middle-aged woman demographic.

    Hachface on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Obama: Make a contribution and there's a chance to have dinner with me where we can discuss politics.

    Clinton: LOOK AT ME! Make a contribution and I'll take you to a FREAKING Elton John concert! HOW COOL IS THAT?! THAT'S SO MUCH BETTER THAN A DINNER WITH SOME DUDE.

    I have to be honest... I still prefer the dinner with Obama.

    Just when you think Hillary doesn't have her finger on the pulse of todays youth she goes and pulls something amazing out of her hat. I mean, come on... what 18-30 year old doesn't have a poster of Elton John up in their room...

    I'm guessing Peter Frampton and The Eagles were unavailable?

    Sentry on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Hachface wrote: »
    Obama is going to be on the View this Friday. That idea's probably not very thrilling to posters here, but it might be a valuable chance to make inroads into the stubborn middle-aged woman demographic.

    Oh God, what the fuck is Elizabeth Hasselbeck going to say? She's easily the most ignorant woman on tv.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    It's during the school year Frampton can't do a concert on a school night.

    Preacher on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Hachface wrote: »
    Obama is going to be on the View this Friday. That idea's probably not very thrilling to posters here, but it might be a valuable chance to make inroads into the stubborn middle-aged woman demographic.

    Oh God, what the fuck is Elizabeth Hasselbeck going to say? She's easily the most ignorant woman on tv.

    There was a time when I would agree with you, but Sherri Shepherd is shaping up to be quite the retard. She's not sure whether or not the earth revolves around the sun, for one thing.

    Hachface on
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/clinton-donors-ask-pelosi-to-back-off/

    "We respect those voters and believe that they, like the voters in the states that have already participated, have a right to be heard. None of us should make declarative statements that diminish the importance of their voices and their votes."

    One campaign has stated that certain states don't matter. Another has not. HOW DOES THE FIRST GROUP GET TO SAY THESE THINGS.

    kildy on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    kildy wrote: »
    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/clinton-donors-ask-pelosi-to-back-off/

    "We respect those voters and believe that they, like the voters in the states that have already participated, have a right to be heard. None of us should make declarative statements that diminish the importance of their voices and their votes."

    One campaign has stated that certain states don't matter. Another has not. HOW DOES THE FIRST GROUP GET TO SAY THESE THINGS.

    Consistent indifference toward the truth.

    Hachface on
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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Obama wrote:
    I'm pleased to announce that Bonnie will be one of my dinner guests. Here's what she told us about herself:

    "I come from an incredibly Republican county in a little tiny town.

    I've always been the rebel in my family. I had a fantastic government teacher in high school who really opened my eyes to a lot of things. I haven't always voted Democratic, but I wanted to vote for someone who spoke to me personally.

    Now my kids are doing well in school, but I'm praying for scholarships. I have no savings, and I don't know how I'm going to put them through college.

    I have never contributed to a political candidate before, but I have started an organizing group in my very Republican county. My children are very active in their support, and I will do all I can to show my neighbors that together, YES WE CAN."

    I'm looking forward to having dinner with Bonnie, but there are still three seats left at the table. Will you be in one of them?

    Feels like a Charlie & the Chocolate Factory story

    Scooter on
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    My issue is that you can fight back and argue against a line of logic, no matter how Bad it is, if it's static. When someone's statements are all over the place, you just ignore them. She's in a position where ignoring her is not allowable, but her level of consistent dialogue has made Alan Keyes look pretty easy to understand.

    kildy on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Hachface wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Obama is going to be on the View this Friday. That idea's probably not very thrilling to posters here, but it might be a valuable chance to make inroads into the stubborn middle-aged woman demographic.

    Oh God, what the fuck is Elizabeth Hasselbeck going to say? She's easily the most ignorant woman on tv.

    There was a time when I would agree with you, but Sherri Shepherd is shaping up to be quite the retard. She's not sure whether or not the earth revolves around the sun, for one thing.

    Oh yeah, I remember that clip.

    If anything is going to drive Obama to erupt and shame himself on live tv, it's the panelists on the View.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    tuxkamentuxkamen really took this picture. Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Would it hurt or help his chances to be seen beating three women to death with a chair on live television?

    (I am, of course, assuming he tells Walters that he has 'much respect for her body of work' while caving in Goldberg's skull. You could probably swap the names either way.)

    tuxkamen on

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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    DasBoot wrote: »
    Am I the only one who sees parallels between this election and, ironically enough, the 1992 Clinton-Bush election. Except some of the things that were working for HW Bush aren't there for McCain. Namely Bush was coming off of a successful campaign in Iraq, while McCain is trying to support our generally unpopular position in Iraq. But we've got the economy trouble. Not only that, but HW Bush could point to Reagan as a model for his presidency. McCain has to try and both court the Bush presidency while trying to distance himself from the unyielding idiocy.

    So where we are is- we have an old war hero Republican politician who is going to be portrayed as out of touch with reality. We have a young, ultra charismatic Democrat who is being portrayed as having a questionable amount of patriotism, except instead of being called a draft dodger we have the Wright business.

    I mean are we going to have things play out in a similar way if Obama gains the nomination, which he probably will be unless it is discovered that he's a child molester or something.

    Remminder: Bill Clinton didn't get the majority of the popular vote in '92. Hell, he didn't even break 45% And we don't appear to have a Perot this time around.

    Jragghen on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Hachface wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Obama is going to be on the View this Friday. That idea's probably not very thrilling to posters here, but it might be a valuable chance to make inroads into the stubborn middle-aged woman demographic.

    Oh God, what the fuck is Elizabeth Hasselbeck going to say? She's easily the most ignorant woman on tv.

    There was a time when I would agree with you, but Sherri Shepherd is shaping up to be quite the retard. She's not sure whether or not the earth revolves around the sun, for one thing.

    Oh yeah, I remember that clip.

    If anything is going to drive Obama to erupt and shame himself on live tv, it's the panelists on the View.

    There's definitely a nightmare scenario floating around my brain in which Obama, in a moment of unspeakable frustration, looks at Hasselbeck and just erupts with a "Are you fucking kidding me?" I can't imagine the actual cause of the outburst, because it would be something so stupid I couldn't even consider it.

    Hachface on
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    TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    He has debated Alan Keyes. I think he can handle the view.

    Tarranon on
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    tuxkamentuxkamen really took this picture. Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Hachface wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Obama is going to be on the View this Friday. That idea's probably not very thrilling to posters here, but it might be a valuable chance to make inroads into the stubborn middle-aged woman demographic.

    Oh God, what the fuck is Elizabeth Hasselbeck going to say? She's easily the most ignorant woman on tv.

    There was a time when I would agree with you, but Sherri Shepherd is shaping up to be quite the retard. She's not sure whether or not the earth revolves around the sun, for one thing.

    Oh yeah, I remember that clip.

    If anything is going to drive Obama to erupt and shame himself on live tv, it's the panelists on the View.

    There's definitely a nightmare scenario floating around my brain in which Obama, in a moment of unspeakable frustration, looks at Hasselbeck and just erupts with a "Are you fucking kidding me?" I can't imagine the actual cause of the outburst, because it would be something so stupid I couldn't even consider it.

    "I have to imagine that having to sit and subject yourself to Christian rhetoric for twenty years is a great strain on your Muslim beliefs. How do you juggle your priorities? By the way, I think it's awesome that you people invented algebra."

    tuxkamen on

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    galenbladegalenblade Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Fuck, Obama. Don't send messages to my inbox titled simply "Dinner Invitation". You get my hopes up so goddamn much.

    galenblade on
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    SavantSavant Simply Barbaric Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Tarranon wrote: »
    He has debated Alan Keyes. I think he can handle the view.

    Are there any videos of that around? I sort of want to watch it with morbid curiosity.

    Savant on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    tuxkamen wrote: »
    "I have to imagine that having to sit and subject yourself to Christian rhetoric for twenty years is a great strain on your Muslim beliefs. How do you juggle your priorities? By the way, I think it's awesome that you people invented algebra."

    :lol:

    Hachface on
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    galenblade wrote: »
    Fuck, Obama. Don't send messages to my inbox titled simply "Dinner Invitation". You get my hopes up so goddamn much.

    Next up: "Are you free Friday, around 8?"

    kildy on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Are you guys seriously downplaying Elton John?

    Because last I checked he was still wicked awesome.

    deadonthestreet on
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    TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    kildy wrote: »
    galenblade wrote: »
    Fuck, Obama. Don't send messages to my inbox titled simply "Dinner Invitation". You get my hopes up so goddamn much.

    Next up: "Are you free Friday, around 8?"

    "What is your favorite kind of coffee? I just got a new grinder."

    Tarranon on
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    ResIpsaLoquiturResIpsaLoquitur Not a grammar nazi, just alt-write. Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    tuxkamen wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Obama is going to be on the View this Friday. That idea's probably not very thrilling to posters here, but it might be a valuable chance to make inroads into the stubborn middle-aged woman demographic.

    Oh God, what the fuck is Elizabeth Hasselbeck going to say? She's easily the most ignorant woman on tv.

    There was a time when I would agree with you, but Sherri Shepherd is shaping up to be quite the retard. She's not sure whether or not the earth revolves around the sun, for one thing.

    Oh yeah, I remember that clip.

    If anything is going to drive Obama to erupt and shame himself on live tv, it's the panelists on the View.

    There's definitely a nightmare scenario floating around my brain in which Obama, in a moment of unspeakable frustration, looks at Hasselbeck and just erupts with a "Are you fucking kidding me?" I can't imagine the actual cause of the outburst, because it would be something so stupid I couldn't even consider it.

    "I have to imagine that having to sit and subject yourself to Christian rhetoric for twenty years is a great strain on your Muslim beliefs. How do you juggle your priorities? By the way, I think it's awesome that you people invented algebra."

    "Isn't it sexist for you to be running for president against a woman?"

    "Are you and Whoopi related?"

    ResIpsaLoquitur on
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    NickTheNewbieNickTheNewbie Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    galenblade wrote: »
    Fuck, Obama. Don't send messages to my inbox titled simply "Dinner Invitation". You get my hopes up so goddamn much.

    NickTheNewbie on
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    Premier kakosPremier kakos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2008
    *wishes his name were Bonnie*

    Premier kakos on
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    jotatejotate Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    So, I've been thinking more on what to do with dodgingsniperfire.com. How do you all feel about making it into a political blog focused on calling politicians on hypocrisy and bullshit? I'll keep it open, but basically it'd just be a more public face to this thread.

    Anyone interested?

    jotate on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2008
    jotate wrote: »
    So, I've been thinking more on what to do with dodgingsniperfire.com. How do you all feel about making it into a political blog focused on calling politicians on hypocrisy and bullshit? I'll keep it open, but basically it'd just be a more public face to this thread.

    Anyone interested?

    I like my idea better, by virtue of the fact that it was my idea.

    But this is a good one, too, and far more productive.

    ElJeffe on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    jotate wrote: »
    So, I've been thinking more on what to do with dodgingsniperfire.com. How do you all feel about making it into a political blog focused on calling politicians on hypocrisy and bullshit? I'll keep it open, but basically it'd just be a more public face to this thread.

    Anyone interested?

    On one hand, there are hundreds of blogs that are ostensibly dedicated to calling politicians on hypocrisy and bullshit. On the other hand, this thread is the best source for election coverage that I read (with the caveat that it conforms to my political views). In any case, I would read it and maybe contribute.

    Hachface on
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    tuxkamentuxkamen really took this picture. Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    It's not a bad idea, though the name kind of causes presuppositions. Makes me want to do something similar with one of my old, appropriately-named domains.

    tuxkamen on

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    SavantSavant Simply Barbaric Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Oh shit, it looks like the "Fellowship" story may be picking up some steam. Supposedly there's going to be someone on MSNBC being interviewed about it. It'd be nice if this exploded in her face close enough to the Pennsylvania primary that this thing can be ended there.

    Savant on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2008
    None of you fuckers better be donating to Obama until after the 31. If I find out one of you got the dinner invite instead of me, I will ban you so hard.

    ElJeffe on
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    TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    None of you fuckers better be donating to Obama until after the 31. If I find out one of you got the dinner invite instead of me, I will ban you so hard.

    Pfft, they've already got the displaced republican demographic covered.

    Now they need a hardcore liberal and conservative that are willing to compromise their ideals for net gain, and a handicapped person.

    Tarranon on
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    wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    jotate wrote: »
    So, I've been thinking more on what to do with dodgingsniperfire.com. How do you all feel about making it into a political blog focused on calling politicians on hypocrisy and bullshit? I'll keep it open, but basically it'd just be a more public face to this thread.

    Anyone interested?

    Yes, but only if I get to be a contributor. I will be the site's resident angry black man.

    wwtMask on
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    jotatejotate Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    tuxkamen wrote: »
    It's not a bad idea, though the name kind of causes presuppositions. Makes me want to do something similar with one of my old, appropriately-named domains.

    Yeah, there is some presupposition. But I figure the Clintons are pretty bipartisanly hated more and more every day. And Hillary is on the precipice of being on the way out. I figure as we're getting started, the URL might get us some traffic and, by the time we're trying to be a respectable source of information/opinions, people will probably be over it.

    And Jeffe, we can implement your idea as soon as you figure out how to programmatically identify and categorize parts of grammar given a random sentence.

    jotate on
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