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Questions, Discussion and Tutorials

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    MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I guess it all comes down to what motivates you: money or passion. Though money is important, it's not as satisfying as going to a job you love every morning.

    MagicToaster on
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    GrifterGrifter BermudaModerator mod
    edited June 2008
    Mustang wrote: »
    It's horseshit that artists get paid so poorly, to do well in the industry you have to be incredibly passionate about what you do but only make the same amount of money as some IT hack (what I do) who could'nt give two shits about what he does (like I do).
    I'd love to switch careers one day, but I've got no misconceptions about hitting the big time, i'll probably have to take a pay cut but to get out of IT....shit, it'd be worth it.

    Hey, hey, hey! Don't knock the IT jobs. I have a great job in IT and I love what I do. Of course, I've been six full time years in the industry and four part time years on top of that. My first four years full-time in the industry were pretty shitty but I've got a great job now even though I sometimes complain about it. And the pay is really good now too.

    Grifter on
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    mr0rangemr0range Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Sorry for the bandwidth breaking post. I don't know if this has been talked about here, a search brings up a whole lot of nothing about this subject.

    Anyone encountered this problem with what Photoshop CS3 does when using a tablet (which is confirmed by many people) or in my case (and others) a Cintiq. Most say that they experience this the most on the Mac version, but random reports have come back with Vista and XP versions as well. This problem has been driving me crazy as I simply thought it was a limitation of using a tablet and Photoshop in general. Thus it's taking me a long time to do comic pages because I have to work at 100% to get proper results. Adobe says it's because Photoshop is SO sensitive that even the slightest shake is picked up ... I call bullshit. I ink with a pen the same way as far as I know, ink and paper can be pretty precise.

    When you draw a line at any percent, you expect it to be smooth. Not in the case of Photoshop CS3.

    Here's a fast drawing at 25% view.

    25percent.jpg

    You can probably already see the problem. Here it is at 100%.

    25percent_at100.jpg

    My hand DOES NOT shake that bad when drawing. Sure I'm shaky but never in my life on my worst day, that bad.

    here is the same drawing now done at 50%

    50percent.jpg

    It's better, but still ... problems at 100%

    50percent_at100.jpg

    It seems to interpret certain line angles in steps almost like an old 8 bit system would draw stepped diagonal lines.

    Here is me drawing at 100% ... and even then it's not perfect.

    100percent.jpg


    Now you'll say "but you're drawing really small, that's why photoshop loses detail, of course 100% is smooth.


    To this I say bullsh!t . Example A: Sketchbook pro has a MUCH smaller 25% for me to work with, the drawing is sloppy, BUT, you'll see upon zooming in to 100% my lines (even though a bit shaky because of me and drawing at such a small size) are still smooth and not stepped:

    sbp25.jpg

    sbp25_100.jpg


    Scroll back up if you forgot what Photoshop is doing.

    SO, if anyone is having a hard time and can't figure out why when using a tablet and CS3 ... maybe this is your problem? I don't know. As far as I know, this is a CS3 problem. I don't have CS2 to test this, but reports have said that CS2 and CS1 did not do this.

    And dammit, it upsets me because CS3 is really easier to work in, but I have to go where the program works for me.

    mr0range on
    dvd_banner.jpg
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    RavenshadowRavenshadow Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I guess it all comes down to what motivates you: money or passion. Though money is important, it's not as satisfying as going to a job you love every morning.

    actually to build on what MT said, doing anything because of just money is a bad idea. I'm a programmer with a computer science degree. One of those degrees you can make a good deal of money at and I've seen tons of people wash out of programming because its actually hard.

    Most careers that pay good are hard. Period. That's why they pay well. And if you don't enjoy it then you will be miserable and wash out. Art can probably pay well, but to get the high paying jobs you're gonna have to work very hard, but this isn't just an art thing. All jobs are that way.

    Pick something you like and make it work. Its kind of a scary thing to do, 'cause you have to commit whole heartedly to something. But if you don't really committ to whatever path you choose, you'll always be a scrub.

    Ravenshadow on
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    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    MrOrange I had this problem with CS, CS2, and CS3 with my Cintiq running Vista. Sketchbook Pro uses its own drivers for tablets, which is why it may act differently.

    Once I downgraded my operating system to XP from Vista I no longer suffered from this problem, but I have no idea if Vista was the real issue or some other crap.
    Most careers that pay good are hard. Period. That's why they pay well. And if you don't enjoy it then you will be miserable and wash out. Art can probably pay well, but to get the high paying jobs you're gonna have to work very hard, but this isn't just an art thing. All jobs are that way.

    The difference is there might be 10,000 well paying IT or programming jobs out there. There are maybe 20-30 illustrators who make that kind of money. While I will agree that you have to work hard just about anywhere, to do well in most art fields you are looking at a whole new class of hard work.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
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    GreatnationGreatnation Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    This is true, but another element to consider that being a great illustrator is actually more of a garuntee at higher income than being a great IT dude, because IT dudes often have to deal with job beuracracy supercedes talent. Competiton in illustration is more simple than other feilds. If you are good at what you do, and work hard, then you will succeed. For the IT guy, he may be a technical genius but have to wait in line for ten years to get promoted.


    Average income for a fresh out of school freelance illustrator is around 25k. I know someone who stepped out and made 70k their first year, and 90k their second. If you are good, it pays off immediatley. Of course, that just one anectodal peice of evidence, so take it as you will, but from what I've gathered he didnt just get lucky.

    Greatnation on
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    Red_ArremerRed_Arremer Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    How do I clean my brushes completely and safely dispose of paint and turpenoid waste?

    Red_Arremer on
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    MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I disagree with Generation. The world is full of bad designers that get payed boatloads of money. I myself don't consider myself to be anything out of the ordinary, but I have an incredible job that pays almost double what my designer friends make.

    It didn't come down so much to skill, but rather playing your cards right. If it was skill based, I know some 18 year olds with half my education that will wipe the floor with me.

    MagicToaster on
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    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    How do I clean my brushes completely and safely dispose of paint and turpenoid waste?

    After each painting session wipe excess paint on your brush off onto a paper towel. Then swipe it back and forth on the bottom surface inside your container of turp in line with the brush (like you would pull a normal brushstroke). Your brush will be fairly clean at this point but what you can do to clean it even better is get some Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps and squeeze some out into your palm, then knead your brushes in the soap a bit and using it to form the brush tips the way you want them. Then just leave the soap on the brushes, dont rinse it out. This will help keep the shape of your brushes for a good amount of time. The soap will easily come out in your turp container next use.

    As far as getting rid of turp? Why? Turp doesn't really go bad. My turp usually evaporates before it would ever need to be thrown away. When your container is getting particularly messy just set it aside for awhile and let all of the paint junk settle in the bottom. Once it has settled gently pour the turp into another container and then take a plastic spoon or something and scrape all that crap at the bottom of your container out and throw it away. Then use a paper towel to clean the container and the scraping surface until it is squeaky clean. Once it is clean just transfer your turp back into the container and you are good to go.


    Also, as a note, when I say that the turp evaporates what I mean is that I use turp on the surface of my painting in the early phases of the painting and I often use it to thin the paint down during the rest of it. In this process you gradually reduce the amount of turp in your container, and of course the turp you take out eventually evaporates. You do NOT want to leave the lid off of your turp container while you are not painting, ever. It doesn't matter whether you are using turpentine, turpenoid, gamsol, whatever. All of it is bad for you. Even the odorless stuff. Odorless doesn't mean harmless. You may know that of course but better I clarify just in case.

    Hope that helps.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
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    supabeastsupabeast Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    How do I clean my brushes completely and safely dispose of paint and turpenoid waste?

    Clean the brushes with brush cleaner, or if you can’t afford that, use ivory (bar) soap. Just soap up the bristles and rub them out under running water over and over until paint doesn’t run out. If you can, hang the brushes in a bowl of turp for a few hours before washing (you can get special cleaning bowls with a spring on top that the brushes hang by). The turpenoid/paint waste needs to be collected in AIRTIGHT glass or metal containers and taken to a hazardous waste collection center. Don’t throw it down a drain or flush it, because it’s vile stuff that will eventually end up in someone’s ceviche if you do. Store old rags in fireproof container and dump them at a hazardous waste site now and then. Be really careful with the rags, because they can spontaneously combust. Whatever you do, don’t wash them or put them in the dryer.

    On a related note, how the fuck do I get drawing ink out of brushes that have long bristles that go up into the handle? Washing it out by hand takes forever, and hanging them doesn’t seem to work.

    supabeast on
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    GreatnationGreatnation Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Toaster-

    I was talking about the freelance illustrator, so your points about the graphic design world, which tend to value education and a corporate structure are still in line with mine.

    Greatnation on
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    Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited June 2008
    Anyone have any experience with Wacom's past-warranty repair costs? My old Intuos2 has developed a problem where if you try to draw at one certain point on the tablet, the line on the monitor seems to wobble around that point and it's really annoying; like doing a drawing on paper when there's a coin lying underneath the surface.

    I'm wondering if it makes more sense to pay to get it repaired, or to splurge on a new 6x11 Intuos3 that actually fits my monitor ratio, and lets me switch back and forth between monitors more easily.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
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    Red_ArremerRed_Arremer Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    supabeast wrote: »
    How do I clean my brushes completely and safely dispose of paint and turpenoid waste?

    Clean the brushes with brush cleaner, or if you can’t afford that, use ivory (bar) soap. Just soap up the bristles and rub them out under running water over and over until paint doesn’t run out. If you can, hang the brushes in a bowl of turp for a few hours before washing (you can get special cleaning bowls with a spring on top that the brushes hang by). The turpenoid/paint waste needs to be collected in AIRTIGHT glass or metal containers and taken to a hazardous waste collection center. Don’t throw it down a drain or flush it, because it’s vile stuff that will eventually end up in someone’s ceviche if you do. Store old rags in fireproof container and dump them at a hazardous waste site now and then. Be really careful with the rags, because they can spontaneously combust. Whatever you do, don’t wash them or put them in the dryer.

    On a related note, how the fuck do I get drawing ink out of brushes that have long bristles that go up into the handle? Washing it out by hand takes forever, and hanging them doesn’t seem to work.
    Ah thanks! I don't think the turpenoid is going to be that big of a problem, because it's turpenoid natural and has that AP logo on it. I looked around and I think I'm supposed to let it evaporate completely outside. I have it in a cup in the garage right now. I'm a little bit more worried about the paint. So I can just rinse what little paint and turpenoid there is under the sink?

    Red_Arremer on
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    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I still don't understand why you need to get rid of it. Unless you just really want to buy more.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
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    Red_ArremerRed_Arremer Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Oh, sorry, missed your post before Supabeast's.

    Red_Arremer on
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    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Ah ok, yeah I just keep using the same turp adding more to it whenever it gets low. No real reason to get rid of it. I do keep two different containers though, so that I can leave one sit for awhile and setlle while I use the other. That way when I go to clean it all of the paint has settled at the bottom.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
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    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Anyone have any experience with Wacom's past-warranty repair costs? My old Intuos2 has developed a problem where if you try to draw at one certain point on the tablet, the line on the monitor seems to wobble around that point and it's really annoying; like doing a drawing on paper when there's a coin lying underneath the surface.

    I'm wondering if it makes more sense to pay to get it repaired, or to splurge on a new 6x11 Intuos3 that actually fits my monitor ratio, and lets me switch back and forth between monitors more easily.

    Tam on
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    supabeastsupabeast Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I'm a little bit more worried about the paint. So I can just rinse what little paint and turpenoid there is under the sink?

    When you’re cleaning the brushes you don’t really have a choice. For the stuff in your turp jar pour the clean turpenoid back into your turpenoid jar once the sediment settles, and when the dirty jar fills up drop it off at the local hazmat collection center (or just dump it in the hazmat bin at your local painting studio). There’s a lot of really vile shit in paint, and the less of it that ends up in our water, the better.

    supabeast on
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    ACsemperfiACsemperfi Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Question

    I've never had one of those pads to draw straight ont the computer. I found this on ebay and was wondering if it was worht it for a begginer.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Wacom-Intuos2-intuos-2-USB-tablet-12x18-XD-1218-U_W0QQitemZ330246100901QQihZ014QQcategoryZ3680QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    ACsemperfi on
    If you wait til the last minute to do something, it only takes a minute to do.
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    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    ACsemperfi wrote: »
    Question

    I've never had one of those pads to draw straight ont the computer. I found this on ebay and was wondering if it was worht it for a begginer.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Wacom-Intuos2-intuos-2-USB-tablet-12x18-XD-1218-U_W0QQitemZ330246100901QQihZ014QQcategoryZ3680QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    Buy a smaller one, AC. A 6x8 should do and you can get the Intuos3 version for cheaper.

    Tam on
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    MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Yeah, get a smaller one. I worked on that huge tablet, it's no fun.

    MagicToaster on
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    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Yup, I hear it everywhere, most people find the 6x8 to be the perfect size. I know I love mine, not that i've used a larger one.

    Mustang on
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    ACsemperfiACsemperfi Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    ACsemperfi on
    If you wait til the last minute to do something, it only takes a minute to do.
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    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    ACsemperfi wrote: »

    Yeah, it's an ancient model. Go look up Academic Superstore and look through their refurbished items. I think there's still an Intuos3 6x8 for $200.

    Tam on
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    supabeastsupabeast Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The large Wacoms are only good if you have a massive desk. Before I went back to pen and paper I actually clamped a monitor to my drawing table so I could plop my big tablet on the drawing table and work right on it, even using my triangles and shape templates with it. And yes, that turned out to be just as stupid as it sounds.

    supabeast on
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    ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Question: In high school, we worked with clay for a few weeks and I thought it was pretty fun. However, it is very messy. I would like to do some kind of scultping just for a hobby, but clay is way too messy to use at home (plus I don't have a kiln or anything). Is there anything... not so messy and kiln-requiring that I can use just to play around with?

    Reznik on
    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
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    supabeastsupabeast Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Modeling clay isn’t at all messy and it’s also cheap. You could also look into sculpting with wax or epoxy resins in the form of two-part putties, although it’s not cheap.

    supabeast on
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    Red_ArremerRed_Arremer Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I suggest you try super sculpey, I just got some to build a sculpture and the stuff is pretty non messy and you just have to bake it in your oven, I suggest looking at this tutorial:

    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18287

    Red_Arremer on
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    RubberchristRubberchrist Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So, as a preface, I've been painting miniatures for years now, which is fun and all, but I recently discovered a love of drawing with white conti crayon on black paper.

    A friend of mine who has a double BA in sculpture and drawing said that I should try proper painting because apparently enjoying negative space (white on black) is a sign of "being one of them [a painter]" as he says.

    I want to continue working with acrylics while i learn "proper" painting as I'm used to the medium, and want to work with art-board rather than canvas because of size/price constraints. Do any of you painters have some good insight for a beginner?

    -R


    Regarding Sculpting:

    I've been using a mixture of Super Sculpey and Epoxy Putty to pretty good effect. The Sculpey stays workable until you fire it, but is difficult to get any really god detail with. The epoxy putty is great in how quicky it sets, and its' texture, which allows a ton of versatility in defining detail (provided you use the right tools), however, due to cost and the fact that you would need to build up layers and allow them to set, is prohibitive for sculpting anything really large.

    Rubberchrist on
    "Nurgle has got to be my favorite chaos god, fluff wise...
    He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh."
    ---Erandus
    Gallery and Blog:
    http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
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    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So, as a preface, I've been painting miniatures for years now, which is fun and all, but I recently discovered a love of drawing with white conti crayon on black paper.

    A friend of mine who has a double BA in sculpture and drawing said that I should try proper painting because apparently enjoying negative space (white on black) is a sign of "being one of them [a painter]" as he says.

    I want to continue working with acrylics while i learn "proper" painting as I'm used to the medium, and want to work with art-board rather than canvas because of size/price constraints. Do any of you painters have some good insight for a beginner?

    -R


    Regarding Sculpting:

    I've been using a mixture of Super Sculpey and Epoxy Putty to pretty good effect. The Sculpey stays workable until you fire it, but is difficult to get any really god detail with. The epoxy putty is great in how quicky it sets, and its' texture, which allows a ton of versatility in defining detail (provided you use the right tools), however, due to cost and the fact that you would need to build up layers and allow them to set, is prohibitive for sculpting anything really large.


    If you look back on the previous page or two you will see some posts about a cheap surface and relatively cheap oil paint that is good to paint with. As far as acrylic is concerned I don't really have much advice.

    What I will say is that if you only enjoy one particular way of working it doesn't bode well for the future. The principles of drawing are the same in every medium (including painting), so if you don't like one, then you probably don't like drawing at its core. So I hope you find that you really enjoy working in many ways rather than just the one.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
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    RubberchristRubberchrist Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    cakemikz wrote: »
    If you look back on the previous page or two you will see some posts about a cheap surface and relatively cheap oil paint that is good to paint with. As far as acrylic is concerned I don't really have much advice.

    What I will say is that if you only enjoy one particular way of working it doesn't bode well for the future. The principles of drawing are the same in every medium (including painting), so if you don't like one, then you probably don't like drawing at its core. So I hope you find that you really enjoy working in many ways rather than just the one.

    Very cool! I do want to play with oils at some point, but I want to start with Acrylics as I'm already familiar with the handling/cleanup of the medium, and I don't have a space to work that would keep my cats away from the thinner I would need from oils (I like them too much to let them vomit blood and die if I get careless or get called away on emergency).

    In particular I'm very interested in you art-board solution. Thanks for that!

    As far as the style of drawing, I didn't say I disliked any, just that the conti crayon on black paper really moved me. I prefer charcoal and charcoal style mediums simply due to how the medium can be manipulated, but graphite is fun too.

    -R

    Rubberchrist on
    "Nurgle has got to be my favorite chaos god, fluff wise...
    He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh."
    ---Erandus
    Gallery and Blog:
    http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
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    desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Try using matisse, i've started using them and they're awesome. I use Matisse Flow because it's easy to get good detail and it levels really well (which is good because I want as little impasto as possible when I paint). Also the finish isn't too plasticky. Try Matisse Structure if you're looking at a thicker more built up texturised style.

    But experiment because only trying these things out yourself will tell you what's going to work for you.

    desperaterobots on
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    IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited June 2008
    I mentioned mediums in the doodle thread a bit ago, and I highly suggest picking some up and playing with them. It will greatly increase the range of applications you can use acrylic for. Here's what I have:

    -Gloss Medium
    -Matte Medium
    (Both are great for increasing the coverage of the paint and gloss meduim makes the paint shiny and the build-up transparent. Great for vibrant colors)
    -Retarder
    (Slows drying, good for keeping paint fresh on your pallet and a little more time to push the paint on the canvas)
    Flow Aid
    (liquidy stuff you add to your water, it can help smooth the paint)

    I feel like those 4 are must haves. I also have an iridescent medium for adding shiny sparkles to my paint, There are many interesting mediums out there, so look around.

    Iruka on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Something useful for anyone looking to get into Blender:
    http://blendernewbies.blogspot.com/

    MKR on
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    beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    so i starts my animation mentor program in the fall, but i want to get a head start
    thing is, i don't care about modeling and texturing, i just want some tutorials on animating pre rigged characters in maya or max.
    said tutorials do not seem to exist or at least google doesn't think so

    so send me your links dearest PAers!

    beavotron on
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    Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited July 2008
    Considering you just want to do animation, there's really little incentive to go for Max over Maya. Go for Maya.

    Generi Rig: http://www.cgindia.org/2006/05/free-maya-5x-character-animation-rig.html
    This is an ok base model that is used a bunch of animation classes, or at least it used to be at Academy of Art San Fran.

    Other rigs: http://www.highend3d.com/maya/downloads/character_rigs/
    I can't speak for any of these other ones.

    http://www.highend3d.com is also just a great resource for Maya scripts and stuff of that nature.

    As for tutorials...uh. You might want to just pick up a book on Maya (the book that comes with Maya (or at least used to (Learning Maya 7)- if you buy it and aren't just using the free-but-ghetto PLE version- should be good enough) to familiarize yourself with the interface. If not that, Maya's help documentation is actually pretty useful. As long as you are familiar with the camera controls, transformation tools, keyframe slider and animation controls, channel box, the outliner and the graph editor you'll have everything you need to at least get started animating stuff. Most of the other menus deal with non-animation stuff or rigging things, which are nice to know about but not necessarily essential as an animator.

    Beyond that it's really just a matter of familiarizing yourself with how your rigs function (wire controls, channel sliders, selection pickers if it's got one, FK/IK switches, etc.) and figuring out how to apply traditional animation principles to it. If you're not familiar with the 12 principles of animation, I'd suggest either picking up The Animator's Survival Kit (good for technical knowledge) or The Illusion of Life (less technical but more inspirational).

    EDIT: Another good tutorial on pose-to-pose vs straight ahead animation, may make figuring out the graph editor a bit easier: http://www.keithlango.com/tutorials/old/popThru/popThru.html

    Angel_of_Bacon on
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    Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    beavotron wrote: »
    so i starts my animation mentor program in the fall, but i want to get a head start
    thing is, i don't care about modeling and texturing, i just want some tutorials on animating pre rigged characters in maya or max.
    said tutorials do not seem to exist or at least google doesn't think so

    so send me your links dearest PAers!

    Pick up the Animator's Survival Kit. It's the bible for any character animator, and AM will have you reading it anyway. Get a head start!

    http://www.amazon.com/Animators-Survival-Kit-Richard-Williams/dp/0571202284

    Synthetic Orange on
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    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    To just shake things up, are there any cool projects to be done with this many neodymium magnet discs?

    neodymium.jpg

    Tam on
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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Tam wrote: »
    To just shake things up, are there any cool projects to be done with this many neodymium magnet discs?

    neodymium.jpg

    Make a tiny-scale mag-lev train track.

    Brolo on
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    Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Build a hard drive enclosure.

    Synthetic Orange on
This discussion has been closed.