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I can honestly say, Defender, that though I am the same age as teefs, I frankly feel as though my mother is a generally unintelligent woman. Any time I converse with her, I have to spend an improbable amount of time laying out my point carefully, as she seems to go out of her way to not understand what I am saying. She is moronic about money, believes in things that I find incomprehensible (I have heard about chemtrails so many goddamn times) and has one-handedly driven me away from mindless liberalism, so I guess I have her to thank for that.
for god's sake, she is a hardcore paulite and when I tried to at least bring out her reasons for why, the truth came out that she, in fact, has no clue what a single one of his policies is
maybe I'm still just being a rash teenager, but it has come to a point where her opinion does not affect my decisions in the slightest because she has lead such a skewed and pampered life that I can't respect the things she does
Charles Kinbote on
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FandyienBut Otto, what about us? Registered Userregular
"doesn't like black people, but still a good person"
fucking lol
Teefs, I think could be an entirely valid line of emotional response given his experience. I've found that (especially since I have a lot of genuinely racist friends - living around here and being white just breeds racism) you really just have to seperate politics from personal relationships sometimes.
bigotry of that kind is a fundamental character flaw and is really inexcusable, hth
OK, sure. So bigotry of their kind is totally not OK, because it contradicts your beliefs. But unilaterally condemning an entire human being because he's racist is OK. Yeah, your perspective is clear, balanced, and unbiased. You have the wisdom of the ages behind your thoughts. Of course.
yes it's acceptable to condemn a person for holding a viewpoint that is directly responsible for some of the worst atrocities in american history
I mean I'm not saying you should or you have to, but I ain't givin' no one shit for being bothered by racist people enough to not want anything to do with them. that's understandable. a gay friend of mine won't hang out with homophobes and who am I to tell him he's being childish. he is not obligated to like those people
also I'm older than teefs so you can't use the diminutive bullshit on me.
my divorced parents both come from absurd amounts of money. my father is old money, my mother is new money.
my father, who is a defense contractor and sells arms to pearl harbor, lives in a small 2bed/2bath in a hispanic-catholic neighborhood and expresses disappointment in me for not going to the cheapest college. every year, he could basically make $47,000 off me, but he just gives it back to me every year.
my mother is a homeopath who makes probably $28,000 a year of her own accord, and has bought or rented five houses in the past six years, is buying a new car because she doesn't like the color of the old one and gets out of any undesirable scenario by throwing money at it.
my mother is disgusting.
Wait, your mother is new money? Like, from her parents or something? Man, that's...ugh, I went to school with so many people like that. They basically just leech leech leech and then when they grow up, most of them don't do shit. As soon as daddy's money stops pouring in, they have no idea what to do with themselves. I want to say it's all their own fault for not developing character and the discipline and strength to live by their own means, but I have to admit that the real difference between me and them is that my parents taught me the value of self-reliance, and we didn't act like we had as much money as we did. So maybe it's the fault of the parents for never saying to the kids, "hey, do this yourself, I'm not gonna handle all the tough parts in life for you."
Defender on
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FandyienBut Otto, what about us? Registered Userregular
edited June 2008
It's not that simple.
I mean, I've been mugged / assaulted / victimised by black people a number of times, and it's really just made me loathe urban culture with a passion.
"doesn't like black people, but still a good person"
fucking lol
Yeah, he didn't like black people because he was almost killed by black people for being white. That kind of thing leaves a mark on a person psychologically. He was a good person because despite growing up with an abusive, racist father, he managed to be somewhat open-minded (until he almost got killed by hordes of black people, which made it look like "dad was right all along") and he took very good care of his mother and his siblings. He was good to everyone around him.
But oh hey, he couldn't overcome the fear that came with being almost beaten to death, so I guess you're fit to sit in judgment of him.
my divorced parents both come from absurd amounts of money. my father is old money, my mother is new money.
my father, who is a defense contractor and sells arms to pearl harbor, lives in a small 2bed/2bath in a hispanic-catholic neighborhood and expresses disappointment in me for not going to the cheapest college. every year, he could basically make $47,000 off me, but he just gives it back to me every year.
my mother is a homeopath who makes probably $28,000 a year of her own accord, and has bought or rented five houses in the past six years, is buying a new car because she doesn't like the color of the old one and gets out of any undesirable scenario by throwing money at it.
my mother is disgusting.
Wait, your mother is new money? Like, from her parents or something? Man, that's...ugh, I went to school with so many people like that. They basically just leech leech leech and then when they grow up, most of them don't do shit. As soon as daddy's money stops pouring in, they have no idea what to do with themselves. I want to say it's all their own fault for not developing character and the discipline and strength to live by their own means, but I have to admit that the real difference between me and them is that my parents taught me the value of self-reliance, and we didn't act like we had as much money as we did. So maybe it's the fault of the parents for never saying to the kids, "hey, do this yourself, I'm not gonna handle all the tough parts in life for you."
yep, she's as new money as it comes. Her siblings:
(A) run a modelling service to meet girls
(B) have been married and divorced four times and is an ex-alcoholic (this one is actually a passable person)
(C) smokes crack every day in his glorious white colorado ski town
I have absolutely no respect for her, and she somehow feels that she is qualified to run the business after my grandfather passes away in spite of the fact that she is planning on spending all her money to start a company that competes with vitamin water based on homeopathic principles.
I just want to be like "listen you fuckers are all retarded and the people my generation aren't much better, you assholes keep your hands off that till I get out of college, then we'll talk"
but my father, who is the oldest money, has a family tradition of only living off what you make and adding to the pile when you have a bit of a surplus, and because they are all so wildly successful the pot just keeps getting filled higher
I almost want to cut ties with my mother's side and be like "ok dad I am your son and only your son now"
Charles Kinbote on
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FandyienBut Otto, what about us? Registered Userregular
edited June 2008
Sometimes I suspect my parents are so easy-going and helpful about all my failures because my brother is such a success they know they've already gotten 1/2 so whats the point
Fandyien on
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Kovakdid a lot of drugsmarried cher?Registered Userregular
edited June 2008
i'm pretty sure its perfectly fine to hate a lot of black culture
especially the whole "Gangster' thing
in fact i believe it is perfectly correct as the member of an organized society to dislike anything that holds up criminal activity
I had the most aggravating conversation with my mom where I was such as "you know mom it's been proven that an authoritative style of parenting is the most effective" and she said "actually studies have been done that prove the best thing is to treat your child with love and acceptance always"
naturally I respond "really that's interesting, I would like to see these studies that quantify love" and she says "well I mean it hasn't been studied but it's true"
there was a short pause before she said "you know your father used an authoritative style". I said "yes, I know" and she said "wait what does authoritative mean"
bigotry of that kind is a fundamental character flaw and is really inexcusable, hth
OK, sure. So bigotry of their kind is totally not OK, because it contradicts your beliefs. But unilaterally condemning an entire human being because he's racist is OK. Yeah, your perspective is clear, balanced, and unbiased. You have the wisdom of the ages behind your thoughts. Of course.
yes it's acceptable to condemn a person for holding a viewpoint that is directly responsible for some of the worst atrocities in american history
I mean I'm not saying you should or you have to, but I ain't givin' no one shit for being bothered by racist people enough to not want anything to do with them. that's understandable. a gay friend of mine won't hang out with homophobes and who am I to tell him he's being childish. he is not obligated to like those people
also I'm older than teefs so you can't use the diminutive bullshit on me.
No, it's not. A person's political beliefs are not the sum total of their character. If he were, like, a Klansmen and went around actually killing black people, then you have a point. If he simply didn't like black people, you have no ground. Yeah, his belief is irrational and not constructive (in my opinion) toward a better world, but it's not the sum total of his person, and it doesn't automatically negate all the good he did in his life.
Defender on
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FandyienBut Otto, what about us? Registered Userregular
edited June 2008
Seriously, it's really hard to keep an equal mentality about race when you live around here. Urban culture is violent and backwards and awful and everywhere, and it drives me up the wall.
Like: riding my bike down the street. Two gangsters tailgate me (~1ft of my back tire) I yell and motion for them to move. Actual human beings would've moved. These two fucking gangsters pull up next to me, spit on my face, then try to swerve into me and run me down. Fuck. That.
Every time something like this happens I remind myself it has nothing to do with the color of their skin and everything to do with the culture in which they've been raised. But it's tough.
In Teefs case, though, his parents being homophobic is a pretty big deal because Teefs is - well, not gay per se... pre-op transgendered if memory serves, but I'm sure just about every homophobe on the planet wouldn't see any difference.
The point is, you can't really look past a prejudice in your friends or family when that prejudice applies to you.
bigotry of that kind is a fundamental character flaw and is really inexcusable, hth
OK, sure. So bigotry of their kind is totally not OK, because it contradicts your beliefs. But unilaterally condemning an entire human being because he's racist is OK. Yeah, your perspective is clear, balanced, and unbiased. You have the wisdom of the ages behind your thoughts. Of course.
yes it's acceptable to condemn a person for holding a viewpoint that is directly responsible for some of the worst atrocities in american history
I mean I'm not saying you should or you have to, but I ain't givin' no one shit for being bothered by racist people enough to not want anything to do with them. that's understandable. a gay friend of mine won't hang out with homophobes and who am I to tell him he's being childish. he is not obligated to like those people
also I'm older than teefs so you can't use the diminutive bullshit on me.
No, it's not. A person's political beliefs are not the sum total of their character. If he were, like, a Klansmen and went around actually killing black people, then you have a point. If he simply didn't like black people, you have no ground. Yeah, his belief is irrational and not constructive (in my opinion) toward a better world, but it's not the sum total of his person, and it doesn't automatically negate all the good he did in his life.
racism goes beyond political beliefs
also stop working your uncle into this, I am not talking about your uncle. I am saying if a person wants to dismiss someone because of a horrible viewpoint they hold, fine. that's a pretty serious flaw and I've seen people dismissed over less, even if they have other good qualities. why is it OK for someone who had a bad experience with black people to be racist and dismiss all black people, but not OK for someone who had a bad experience with racists dismiss all racists?
You are only proving yourself to be of as closed a mind as anyone else could ever be.
"Nope, my beliefs say it's wrong, so therefore it's always wrong, no excuse for it, and it's his own fault."
Well, OK then, my (hypothetical) beliefs say it's wrong to be a queer, and you have chosen to be a queer, so you're a horrible person on all fronts because I unilaterally said so.
This is every bit as solid as your logic. Only you're a kid, so you can't see any perspective but your own, and you're sure that your way is the only way, whereas I'm an adult and can see that even qualities I hate (like racism) can be flaws in an otherwise genuinely good person.
so racist people are defensible because they "did some good things" woot.
Objectively yes
My dad is a slight bit racist, not terribly so but its there
He served in the military for a decade before he was medically retired from injury during active duty
He then despite that went on to build a civilian career managing a warehouse, where when he finally was forced to retire due to medical reasons some of his employees left because they didnt want to work under anyone else(many of these employees were black too)
He always provided for his family
So what if he maybe has a little bit of a bias towards his own race
He doesn't let it get into his professional dealings, just his personal.
and yet teefs somehow you're sitting there putting yourself on your high horse above him
what do you do teefs?
you browse 4chan, have a maid clean your house, and fuckin who knows what else
Kovak on
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FrankoSometimes I really wish I had four feet so I could dance with myself to the drumbeatRegistered Userregular
edited June 2008
I moved to the otherside of the world at the age of 19. I got life experience baby. Oh ya, I'm really racist towards small town Chinese people.
so racist people are defensible because they "did some good things" woot.
No, of course not. A person who is uncomfortable around other races is a bad person in all regards. Doesn't matter what good they did, not being able to get psychologically past almost getting killed over race negates all good in you and makes you a horrible person.
Defender on
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The GeekOh-Two Crew, OmeganautRegistered User, ClubPAregular
so racist people are defensible because they "did some good things" woot.
No, of course not. A person who is uncomfortable around other races is a bad person in all regards. Doesn't matter what good they did, not being able to get psychologically past almost getting killed over race negates all good in you and makes you a horrible person.
Defender, I don't think I could agree with you more.
Racism does not define a person. It's a negative trait, sure, but people all have their own mental blockages or undesirable opinions. The idea that racism invalidates an entire human being is really pretty short-sighted.
so racist people are defensible because they "did some good things" woot.
No, of course not. A person who is uncomfortable around other races is a bad person in all regards. Doesn't matter what good they did, not being able to get psychologically past almost getting killed over race negates all good in you and makes you a horrible person.
Defender, I don't think I could agree with you more.
Racism does not define a person. It's a negative trait, sure, but people all have their own mental blockages or undesirable opinions. The idea that racism invalidates an entire human being is really pretty short-sighted.
I agree here with both you and Defender on this, but why the fuck is intolerance OK but not intolerance of intolerance?
my dad has told me a lot about how he loves asian women and always thought he would marry one
and then one day he was telling me about how he saw an asian woman wearing a "DIE YUPPIE" shirt and how he thought that was equivalent to him wearing a "DIE SLANTY-EYED BITCH" shirt and I was like woah, woah, we cool
I guess yuppie does kinda denote white people but that still kinda caught me off guard
Posts
Shit I think those people constitute the majority of my extended family.
for god's sake, she is a hardcore paulite and when I tried to at least bring out her reasons for why, the truth came out that she, in fact, has no clue what a single one of his policies is
maybe I'm still just being a rash teenager, but it has come to a point where her opinion does not affect my decisions in the slightest because she has lead such a skewed and pampered life that I can't respect the things she does
Teefs, I think could be an entirely valid line of emotional response given his experience. I've found that (especially since I have a lot of genuinely racist friends - living around here and being white just breeds racism) you really just have to seperate politics from personal relationships sometimes.
I mean I'm not saying you should or you have to, but I ain't givin' no one shit for being bothered by racist people enough to not want anything to do with them. that's understandable. a gay friend of mine won't hang out with homophobes and who am I to tell him he's being childish. he is not obligated to like those people
also I'm older than teefs so you can't use the diminutive bullshit on me.
Wait, your mother is new money? Like, from her parents or something? Man, that's...ugh, I went to school with so many people like that. They basically just leech leech leech and then when they grow up, most of them don't do shit. As soon as daddy's money stops pouring in, they have no idea what to do with themselves. I want to say it's all their own fault for not developing character and the discipline and strength to live by their own means, but I have to admit that the real difference between me and them is that my parents taught me the value of self-reliance, and we didn't act like we had as much money as we did. So maybe it's the fault of the parents for never saying to the kids, "hey, do this yourself, I'm not gonna handle all the tough parts in life for you."
I mean, I've been mugged / assaulted / victimised by black people a number of times, and it's really just made me loathe urban culture with a passion.
Yeah, he didn't like black people because he was almost killed by black people for being white. That kind of thing leaves a mark on a person psychologically. He was a good person because despite growing up with an abusive, racist father, he managed to be somewhat open-minded (until he almost got killed by hordes of black people, which made it look like "dad was right all along") and he took very good care of his mother and his siblings. He was good to everyone around him.
But oh hey, he couldn't overcome the fear that came with being almost beaten to death, so I guess you're fit to sit in judgment of him.
e: Just had to balance out the thread.
yep, she's as new money as it comes. Her siblings:
(A) run a modelling service to meet girls
(B) have been married and divorced four times and is an ex-alcoholic (this one is actually a passable person)
(C) smokes crack every day in his glorious white colorado ski town
I have absolutely no respect for her, and she somehow feels that she is qualified to run the business after my grandfather passes away in spite of the fact that she is planning on spending all her money to start a company that competes with vitamin water based on homeopathic principles.
I just want to be like "listen you fuckers are all retarded and the people my generation aren't much better, you assholes keep your hands off that till I get out of college, then we'll talk"
but my father, who is the oldest money, has a family tradition of only living off what you make and adding to the pile when you have a bit of a surplus, and because they are all so wildly successful the pot just keeps getting filled higher
I almost want to cut ties with my mother's side and be like "ok dad I am your son and only your son now"
especially the whole "Gangster' thing
in fact i believe it is perfectly correct as the member of an organized society to dislike anything that holds up criminal activity
perhaps even your duty as a citizen
I'm a little afraid of black people
but what I'm really afraid of
is racism
naturally I respond "really that's interesting, I would like to see these studies that quantify love" and she says "well I mean it hasn't been studied but it's true"
there was a short pause before she said "you know your father used an authoritative style". I said "yes, I know" and she said "wait what does authoritative mean"
No, it's not. A person's political beliefs are not the sum total of their character. If he were, like, a Klansmen and went around actually killing black people, then you have a point. If he simply didn't like black people, you have no ground. Yeah, his belief is irrational and not constructive (in my opinion) toward a better world, but it's not the sum total of his person, and it doesn't automatically negate all the good he did in his life.
Like: riding my bike down the street. Two gangsters tailgate me (~1ft of my back tire) I yell and motion for them to move. Actual human beings would've moved. These two fucking gangsters pull up next to me, spit on my face, then try to swerve into me and run me down. Fuck. That.
Every time something like this happens I remind myself it has nothing to do with the color of their skin and everything to do with the culture in which they've been raised. But it's tough.
The point is, you can't really look past a prejudice in your friends or family when that prejudice applies to you.
you should sell yourself out as a medicinal aid
to induce vomiting
also stop working your uncle into this, I am not talking about your uncle. I am saying if a person wants to dismiss someone because of a horrible viewpoint they hold, fine. that's a pretty serious flaw and I've seen people dismissed over less, even if they have other good qualities. why is it OK for someone who had a bad experience with black people to be racist and dismiss all black people, but not OK for someone who had a bad experience with racists dismiss all racists?
it deserves the dislike that it gets
You are only proving yourself to be of as closed a mind as anyone else could ever be.
"Nope, my beliefs say it's wrong, so therefore it's always wrong, no excuse for it, and it's his own fault."
Well, OK then, my (hypothetical) beliefs say it's wrong to be a queer, and you have chosen to be a queer, so you're a horrible person on all fronts because I unilaterally said so.
This is every bit as solid as your logic. Only you're a kid, so you can't see any perspective but your own, and you're sure that your way is the only way, whereas I'm an adult and can see that even qualities I hate (like racism) can be flaws in an otherwise genuinely good person.
after going to a 90% hispanic public school for two years, it's getting a lot rougher for me
My dad is a slight bit racist, not terribly so but its there
He served in the military for a decade before he was medically retired from injury during active duty
He then despite that went on to build a civilian career managing a warehouse, where when he finally was forced to retire due to medical reasons some of his employees left because they didnt want to work under anyone else(many of these employees were black too)
He always provided for his family
So what if he maybe has a little bit of a bias towards his own race
He doesn't let it get into his professional dealings, just his personal.
and yet teefs somehow you're sitting there putting yourself on your high horse above him
what do you do teefs?
you browse 4chan, have a maid clean your house, and fuckin who knows what else
No, of course not. A person who is uncomfortable around other races is a bad person in all regards. Doesn't matter what good they did, not being able to get psychologically past almost getting killed over race negates all good in you and makes you a horrible person.
Defender, I don't think I could agree with you more.
Racism does not define a person. It's a negative trait, sure, but people all have their own mental blockages or undesirable opinions. The idea that racism invalidates an entire human being is really pretty short-sighted.
and then one day he was telling me about how he saw an asian woman wearing a "DIE YUPPIE" shirt and how he thought that was equivalent to him wearing a "DIE SLANTY-EYED BITCH" shirt and I was like woah, woah, we cool
I guess yuppie does kinda denote white people but that still kinda caught me off guard