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Am I just being stupid? (Tattoos) UPDATE AGAIN/SOLVED!

i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
edited September 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
Recently my gf did something that seriously upset me and I'm wondering if I'm just being stupid or being perfectly logical.

So in a nutshell this is what happened:
-I bring up the other day the topic of tattoos with my gf. I already have one and shes wanted one ever since. So I ask if she'd like to get music notes as a starter tattoo to get her to know the pain and I even told her I'd get one with her of the same thing, just a tiny little eighth note and maybe a treble clef no bigger than 1.5".

-Then I decide to look up designs of music tattoos on the web and I came up with this awesome idea for a bit larger design for her which she absolutely loved. She asked me to sketch up the design she would have the artist tattoo on her (I'm a graphic artist) and of course I was excited to do it. I made the final draft which took about an hour with all the tweaks she wanted and she was estastic when she saw it.

-What upset me was the fact that she calls me up later that day and said she made some changes of her own to which I was happy to see she was interested in the design I made and maybe wanted to put her own lil artistic twist to it. Now she is in a music fraternity and is very involved with it. Her entire kitchen and bedroom is dedicated to her frat which is cool but I really dont understand frat life because I'm not a part of one. But whatever I respect her and her sisters in the group. So the change she made was putting her fraternity logo right smack in the middle of my design.

-At first I thought it was a bad idea visually because it didnt go with the rest of the design and I never really saw something like your frat's logo tattooed on someone for life especially my gf. Just seemed like a dumb idea to me and I kinda felt hurt by it. I worked hard to give her something that she'd like and was really meant to be about her and I and she kinda just turned the whole thing into being about her frat. I used the analogy "its like she asked me to paint a picture for her living room, I worked really hard on it creatively and she decides to paint SAI in the middle of it when I'm done."

Is this normal? I get the feeling I'm gonna have everyone on here tell me I'm just being stupid but I really couldn't help but feel a lil hurt by that action as simple as it was. I told her its her body and I'm the last one to be telling her what to do with it so she could do whatever she wanted with it but I did tell her how hurt I felt.


UPDATE: So we went to get it done and she decided not to get the letters. What relief and the tattoo came out pretty good. She decided to have both the stars blue instead of blue and green. Crisis evaded and problem solved, thanks for all the talk and advice guys, H/A strikes again!

Oh here is a pic of how it came out if you're curious:
01220884767659000000117293_0.jpg

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    OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Nah, it makes sense that you'd feel a little slighted. You're not being stupid. That said, try not to take it too personally. It's not exactly a huge deal that is worth drama in your relationship, and letting yourself dwell on things like this builds bitterness. So... don't. Let yourself dwell on it, I mean.

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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Sidenote: I can post the design I made just for kicks if you guys want.

    i n c u b u s on
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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I think without a before and after pic of the design it's hard to tell exactly, but unless she totally ruined it then I've got to side with your GF. Tattoos are ultimately an extremely personal decision and so she's got the right to change the design as she sees fit.

    Peen on
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    RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    It's her body and she can do what she wants.
    It sounds awful though. And really tacky.

    RocketSauce on
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    ihmmyihmmy Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I think without a before and after pic of the design it's hard to tell exactly, but unless she totally ruined it then I've got to side with your GF. Tattoos are ultimately an extremely personal decision and so she's got the right to change the design as she sees fit.

    agreed
    the frat logo sounds kind of tacky, but I also think matching tattoo's are pretty tacky, soooo...

    ihmmy on
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    My experience with people when they get tattooed is that they always over think what they're doing. I think in order for a tattoo to be truly meaningful it needs to be slightly abstract. By grounding so deeply into the moment you sort of cheapen it.

    I think what your GF is doing is the perfect example of this. The notes by themselves would be the perfect abstract representation of both her love for music and the time she spent with her sorority. By branding herself with some initials it takes away from "value" of both the art and the experience.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    My experience with people when they get tattooed is that they always over think what they're doing. I think in order for a tattoo to be truly meaningful it needs to be slightly abstract. By grounding so deeply into the moment you sort of cheapen it.

    I think what your GF is doing is the perfect example of this. The notes by themselves would be the perfect abstract representation of both her love for music and the time she spent with her sorority. By branding herself with some initials it takes away from "value" of both the art and the experience.

    Thats EXACTLY how I saw it. Thats pretty much why I think the logo she wants is pretty lame.

    i n c u b u s on
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    DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I've never been a fan of tattoos, but thats because so many people get stupid tattoos. I understand why your upset and your thinking is logical.

    First and foremost, it's her body and she can do what she wants, be sure to let her know this.

    If its upsetting you, you could explain that you understand she has close friends in her frat that she may have for the rest of her life, but it seems like she is putting frat life ahead of everything else and getting a tattoo she might decide isn't so awesome 10 or 20 years from now and be stuck with.

    Dman on
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Another thing you could try is some sort of compromise between what you think would be nice and what she has proposed. Ultimately it's her decision though.

    I would also draw the focus away from how you think the initials cheapen YOUR design. Ultimately this is about her and what you like shouldn't really be a factor. Approach more from the standpoint I mentioned above.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Thanks I appreciate the outside perspective on this guys, sometimes its hard to see whats going on just from what I'm thinking. Like I said in the first post I have already told her that its her body and I made the design for her so she can do whatever she pleases but I did stress how I felt. She sounded like she understood what I meant and apologized. I don't think it'll be an issue unless she wants to add soething god awful in which case I gotta find a polite way of showing her its something she wouldn't want in 20-30 years from now.

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    ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2020
    I would like to see the design. :)

    It's understandable that you're upset, but there's nothing you can do about it. It IS her body. That said, in 20 years she's going to be sad.

    I would still get the tattoo with her, but obviously you should use the unaltered version. It sounds very nice.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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    OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Whenever tattoos come up in H/A people recommend, what, having the design in your mind for a year or so before you get the tattoo, to see if you're still going to like it or if it was just a dumb idea.

    She's been gung-ho about this music note for a week or two (?) but also decides to (and this may just be the phrasing, how I read it) throw something into the design.

    Convincing her to wait and think about what she's (actually both of you were) putting onto her (your) body may be an impossible task (woman around 20), but that'd be my suggestion. If she still wants it, no point arguing.

    Octoparrot on
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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    ceres wrote: »
    I would like to see the design. :)

    It's understandable that you're upset, but there's nothing you can do about it. It IS her body. That said, in 20 years she's going to be sad.

    I would still get the tattoo with her, but obviously you should use the unaltered version. It sounds very nice.

    These are the early designs of what I made for her, I don't have the finished one or the one she altered here on my work computer.
    tats.jpg
    Oh also I'm not getting this one she is. I'm just sticking to the orginal 2 or 3 music notes about an inch big plan.

    ceres on
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    atat23atat23 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    yeah it would be good to see both designs

    depending on what her modification is like though she could always get the original design first to see how she felt about it for a few weeks and then if she still wanted to add the logo over the top it shouldn't be much of a problem, I know a few people who have had old tatoos modified, updated or changed pretty much completely

    atat23 on
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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    Whenever tattoos come up in H/A people recommend, what, having the design in your mind for a year or so before you get the tattoo, to see if you're still going to like it or if it was just a dumb idea.

    She's been gung-ho about this music note for a week or two (?) but also decides to (and this may just be the phrasing, how I read it) throw something into the design.

    Convincing her to wait and think about what she's (actually both of you were) putting onto her (your) body may be an impossible task (woman around 20), but that'd be my suggestion. If she still wants it, no point arguing.

    Shes actually wanted a tattoo like this for years now, she just never had anyone that could put her ideas on to paper and thats where I came in.

    i n c u b u s on
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    ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2008
    Is that actual size? If so, she might be able to work the letters into the inside of one of the notes. That way it's tiny and from a distance will just look like a texture.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    No thats probably not the size she would get. Possibly somewhere around 3 inches tall?

    i n c u b u s on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    When I was dealing with tattoo ideas and picthing them to people, someone pointed out that I was putting too much stuff into one design. If both are important, why not get two tattoos?

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    noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I won't go as far as saying you're being stupid, but I will say that you're overreacting. Tattoos mean different things for different people. If she wants to get a tattoo of her fraternity, then let her do so. Some people take the frat stuff really seriously and remember it for their entire lives. Maybe she's like that.

    noir_blood on
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    EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Your point is definitely valid, and is exactly what people run into with "tattoo regret."

    I would actually talk to her about this, and point out that a tattoo is permanent -- and that while she can obviously be excited about it, it should be something that she wants on her for the rest of her life.

    Music notes for someone who's really into music is fantastic, for example. Actually I'd say your design is a little overboard with the stars 'n such. It looks like you're thinking too much "piece of paper" and not enough "body." For example, on a body you can have a treble clef followed by notes, so it actually looks like music on a staff.

    However, throwing the frat in there? Look, as a point of comparison, compare a heart tattoo to someone's name. If I get a heart tattooed on my ankle because I love my wife, that heart means something. If I get KATE tattooed on my leg, it only symbolizes a name's permanence. What's worse, what if my wife decides to go by katherine or katie at some point in the future? Even leaving out divorce or bad mojo, a tattoo is NOT an arm band -- you can't take it off. It's not a necklace, or a ring.

    It's permanent.

    So ask her if she wants to have her frat tattooed to her body when she's 70 years old and it's illegible. Compare that to having a treble clef and some notes, which will timelessly show her dedication and love of music.


    I'd argue that saying "it's her body, whatever," is a bad way to think about it. I'd imagine a lot of people wished their friends or significant others spoke up and said "are you sure you want that? you can't change your mind after you get it, and what if your frat is caught in a federal drug bust 7 years after you leave?" Arguably you're with her because you like her; why let her do something she may regret? It's no different than a questionable job, a questionable investment, and so on.

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    JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    edited January 2020
    Can you re-work the design with the initials present, but not as prominent?

    ceres on
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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Toast- The simple treble clef and notes was what we were gonna do all along and is infact what I'm doing still. She just asked me to tweak it to what she liked and has wanted for a while now and thats what came out of it. It really does fit her personality and I think it'll look good. I do want to say that I am gonna explain to her that tattoos are MUCH better simple. The simpler the better and thats exactly what the artist will tell you when you go to the shop. It just shows up better that way and not cluttered, also the details show up much better.

    i n c u b u s on
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    SarcastroSarcastro Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I understand the feelings behind having your work changed, I remember helping a freind write a paper for college, working hard on it and knowing full on that it was A+ work. In the end though, before he submitted it, he made some serious changes. His stuff was C quality, at best. Sure enough, boy pulls a C.

    When I asked him why the fuck he did that, mad because he threw away my efforts, he told me that it wasn't 'his work', and he needed to change it up to make it his. I was pretty pissed off, because I had thought we came up with it together, and my way (I never got anything less than an A on any paper) was better.

    In the end, years later, I realized that he felt the need to pass or fail on his own terms. His C, lame as it was, was his, and he accepted that as the consequence for being who he was. I see the same sort of thing here, where your design is really very good, but it's her tattoo. It needs to have something of herself in there, and it will also pass or fail on its own terms. She's going to own it forever, so I can certainly see how there would be a desire to alter it with her own style, her own perception of what is meaningful and skillful, and have that as the mark she wears.

    You're still in that mark, dude. She'll remember that you worked on it together everytime she sees it. It has your elements, and her own flair - a union of meaning, design, memory and perception. As much as you might disagree with the changes, she has moved it from being 'yours' into an 'ours', which says something as well. I like that she can see herself blending in with your ideas, it bodes well.

    She's willing to carry a symbol of togetherness with you for the rest of her life, and that's pretty special. Don't lose sight of the big picture for what might be a misplaced sense of 'artistic integrity'. There's a time and place for that, you may want to ask yourself if this is really the case in the here and now.

    Sarcastro on
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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Thanks for that sarcastro, I gotta say I was hoping you would reply to this. Your advice is spot on my friend.

    i n c u b u s on
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    JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I know all kinds of people that think fraternities are great.

    Then they graduate and kinda grow out of it or they have some kind of falling out, of it just looses its charm.

    Im sure she would hate to be one of those people with the name on her arm of somthing she isnt even that interested in anymore.

    Also, is she really gonna be all about this fraternity when she is say, 80? This shit be permanent yo.

    JebusUD on
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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    JebusUD wrote: »
    I know all kinds of people that think fraternities are great.

    Then they graduate and kinda grow out of it or they have some kind of falling out, of it just looses its charm.

    Im sure she would hate to be one of those people with the name on her arm of somthing she isnt even that interested in anymore.

    Also, is she really gonna be all about this fraternity when she is say, 80? This shit be permanent yo.

    Ya know that exactly what I want to explain to her but I dont know how to do it without her just getting pissed off at me and ultimately slapping the "you just wouldn't understand" at the end of the conversation. I also dont want to get into an arguement over something stupid like her frat, luckily we havent as of yet.

    i n c u b u s on
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    mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    #1. As its been said before ultimately its her body so she is going to decide what is going on her.
    #2. you have every right to feel slighted, you mocked up a design you thought was awesome thinking it would blow her away. but she wants to change your work. of course that should bum you out.
    #3 its all a moot point since any tattoo artist worth their salt is going to want to redraw that anyway and is going to redesign that. Nothing against you, but that would not make a good tattoo.

    mts on
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    JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    The "are you going to like it when you're 98" thing sort of holds true for absolutely anything, though.

    JohnnyCache on
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    DiscoZombieDiscoZombie Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    my ex got several tattoos. each one was a really tacky one right off the tattoo parlor's wall. I usually thought of her as such a smart person. she went to an ivy league school, even. but she would do anything to be cool and fit in. drove us apart, in the end.

    if she goes through with the whole frat initials thing, I hope she at least gets it in an out-of-the-way place... imo, tattoos should be really artistic and creative or you shouldn't get one. I'll never understand people who essentially have clip art tattooed onto their bodies...

    DiscoZombie on
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    So she wants a tattoo partly because you have one. So you came up with the idea, designed it for her, and you're going to go out and get it yourself as well?

    I don't know how the conversation went, exactly... but here's how I perceive it filtered through the darkened looking glass of the Internet. That's not her tattoo. That's your tattoo. You picked it, you designed it. Now you're upset that she's not putting your tattoo on her body.

    My suggestion? Back off. Let her get what she wants. Frat letters are a terrible idea for a tattoo, but it's still her decision.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    So she wants a tattoo partly because you have one. So you came up with the idea, designed it for her, and you're going to go out and get it yourself as well?

    I don't know how the conversation went, exactly... but here's how I perceive it filtered through the darkened looking glass of the Internet. That's not her tattoo. That's your tattoo. You picked it, you designed it. Now you're upset that she's not putting your tattoo on her body.

    My suggestion? Back off. Let her get what she wants. Frat letters are a terrible idea for a tattoo, but it's still her decision.

    Thats actually not what the situation is at all.

    i n c u b u s on
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    So she wants a tattoo partly because you have one. So you came up with the idea, designed it for her, and you're going to go out and get it yourself as well?

    I don't know how the conversation went, exactly... but here's how I perceive it filtered through the darkened looking glass of the Internet. That's not her tattoo. That's your tattoo. You picked it, you designed it. Now you're upset that she's not putting your tattoo on her body.

    My suggestion? Back off. Let her get what she wants. Frat letters are a terrible idea for a tattoo, but it's still her decision.

    Thats actually not what the situation is at all.

    Okay.

    Who brought up the subject of tattoos? You or her?
    Who brought up musical notes? You or her?
    Did she ask you to design it for her?
    Or did you just think, "oooh, i'm gonna get my girlfriend inked up!" and go run with it?

    I'm perfectly willing to accept that my impression might be wrong. So far, though, everything you've said has indicated that you've taken the initiative at every step of the way. It really sounds like you're the driving creative force behind this whole endeavor; if that's not the case well you have no obligation to prove me wrong but I have to say I'm really curious how it's not.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    So she wants a tattoo partly because you have one. So you came up with the idea, designed it for her, and you're going to go out and get it yourself as well?

    I don't know how the conversation went, exactly... but here's how I perceive it filtered through the darkened looking glass of the Internet. That's not her tattoo. That's your tattoo. You picked it, you designed it. Now you're upset that she's not putting your tattoo on her body.

    My suggestion? Back off. Let her get what she wants. Frat letters are a terrible idea for a tattoo, but it's still her decision.

    Thats actually not what the situation is at all.

    Okay.

    Who brought up the subject of tattoos? You or her?
    Who brought up musical notes? You or her?
    Did she ask you to design it for her?
    Or did you just think, "oooh, i'm gonna get my girlfriend inked up!" and go run with it?

    I'm perfectly willing to accept that my impression might be wrong. So far, though, everything you've said has indicated that you've taken the initiative at every step of the way. It really sounds like you're the driving creative force behind this whole endeavor; if that's not the case well you have no obligation to prove me wrong but I have to say I'm really curious how it's not.

    -She did, I've had my tattoo long before I even knew her and she's talked about getting one herself ever since.
    -She did, she's always told me she wants two tattoos: music notes and a storm trooper. I suggested the notes because their easier to take, being its her first tattoo.
    -She did ask me to design it for her. Shes not very artistically inclined and has a hard time getting her ideas on to paper. She watched me do the whole designing process and pretty much ok'd or denied whatever I drew up.
    (the pictures above are only the base design and only slightly look like what the final design looks like.)

    i n c u b u s on
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    -She did, I've had my tattoo long before I even knew her and she's talked about getting one herself ever since.
    -She did, she's always told me she wants two tattoos: music notes and a storm trooper. I suggested the notes because their easier to take, being its her first tattoo.
    -She did ask me to design it for her. Shes not very artistically inclined and has a hard time getting her ideas on to paper. She watched me do the whole designing process and pretty much ok'd or denied whatever I drew up.
    (the pictures above are only the base design and only slightly look like what the final design looks like.)

    Okay, then I rescind my advice.

    Edit: My suggestion (to you and her) then is to get the frat letters below the notes. That way if she wants them removed or covered later on she can alter one part of the tattoo without destroying the other. She gets what she wants, and you don't feel like your design was adulterated.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    -She did, I've had my tattoo long before I even knew her and she's talked about getting one herself ever since.
    -She did, she's always told me she wants two tattoos: music notes and a storm trooper. I suggested the notes because their easier to take, being its her first tattoo.
    -She did ask me to design it for her. Shes not very artistically inclined and has a hard time getting her ideas on to paper. She watched me do the whole designing process and pretty much ok'd or denied whatever I drew up.
    (the pictures above are only the base design and only slightly look like what the final design looks like.)

    Okay, then I rescind my advice.
    I didn't mean to come off so defensively there I just saw that your perspective was off.

    i n c u b u s on
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    JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    The "are you going to like it when you're 98" thing sort of holds true for absolutely anything, though.

    Absolutely any tatoo I suppose. Thats why you probably shouldmn't do somthing like a frat symbol because it is such a college thing. Its fixed in that time. I hope she still isnt in college at 98.

    Just plain music symbols are kind of a thing she will keep enjoying. Its not like anyone grows to dislike all music.

    JebusUD on
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    Evil_ReaverEvil_Reaver Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    noir_blood wrote: »
    I won't go as far as saying you're being stupid, but I will say that you're overreacting. Tattoos mean different things for different people. If she wants to get a tattoo of her fraternity, then let her do so. Some people take the frat stuff really seriously and remember it for their entire lives. Maybe she's like that.

    This.

    If you weren't ever in a fraternity, you really can't understand what it could possibly mean to your girlfriend. Just sayin'.

    You should encourage her to think about it long and hard before actually going through with it, but it's her body and there's no sense in getting angry about it.

    Personal Anecdote:

    My wife (then girlfriend) went to Padre for spring break during college and got a tattoo on a whim. I was so pissed at her when she told me because 1.) her friend pressured her so she didn't think about it and 2.) she was drunk when she did it. I eventually realized that it's her body and as long as she's not doing anything harmful to herself, I really didn't have any right to be mad about something like a tattoo.

    Evil_Reaver on
    XBL: Agitated Wombat | 3DS: 2363-7048-2527
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    Namel3ssNamel3ss Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Wow, I can't believe this mistake has gone on for two pages.

    .

    .

    .
    Unless she has a penis its a. . .
    sorority

    Namel3ss on
    May the wombat of happiness snuffle through your underbrush.
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Namel3ss wrote: »
    Wow, I can't believe this mistake has gone on for two pages.

    .

    .

    .
    Unless she has a penis its a. . .
    sorority

    Unless it's co-ed, then it's a still a fraternity.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    Namel3ssNamel3ss Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Well, I looked it up.

    " International Music Fraternity for Women."


    Sororities are dead.

    Namel3ss on
    May the wombat of happiness snuffle through your underbrush.
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