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So now that I am officially caught up (1-12, the annual, and Green Mist one-shot) I can say 100 percent that I LOVE LOVE LOVE this book. Although, I haven't seen any mention in book and I'm terrible at following creator interviews as they are posted, but is this running concurrently with Danny's membership in the New Avengers or before?
As of the last few NA issues, Danny says he recently ran into someone who could interfere with his power and asked Strange if he can prevent it from happening again. I think this is referring to how his power went haywire when Orson got close until he learned to adjust. So I'm guessing after the 7 cities he and Luke go fight the good fight with the New Avengers.
So on another board I made an epic post with one scan from each artist who's drawn at least a page in Immortal Iron Fist 1-12 or the annual or the Orson one shot. Should I/can I cross post it here?
One affirmative is good enough for me. Here goes nothing.
EDIT: Because I love you guys and your horizontal scrolls I spoiler tagged the images for increased readability.
You won't believe how much of a bitch this was to put together. Closer to 2 hrs than 1, but I regret NOTHING!
I wish Aja would draw everything in the book. Or at least get some good fill in artists for the pages he can't do. The beginning was awesome but these guys lately are trash. And the sad thing is it's been getting worse and worse in the later issues.
I hope you guys have broadband cause here's my EXTENSIVE nerd breakdown of the art (yes I wasted an HOUR of my life doing this, but on the plus side at least I learned which artists to look out for in future and who to avoid :clown :lol @ me ):
[comic book guy]
The main artist Aja is always great:
Travel Foreman and Derek Fridolfs did a few pages in all the issues 1-6 and were the illest fill in artists so far. It was very impressive they need to draw a whole issue:
John Severin in issue 2 was OK
borderline bad:
Russ Heath in issues 3 and 6 was OK:
Sal Buscema and Tom Palmer in 4 were ehhh:
Issue 5 was awesome because it was just Foreman and Aja:
Issue 7 had 3 awesome fill in artists:
Foreman Issue 7 pgs 1-6:
Leandro Fernandez Issue 7 pgs 7-13:
and Khari Evans Issue 7 pgs 14-22:
Roy Allan Martinez in issues 8, 9 was OK:
Scott Koblish w/ Martinez in issue 9 was OK at best:
Kano in issues 10, 11. and 12 was vomitrocious:
Javier Pulido in issue 12 was the worst yet. A child could do better than this. Hell, a moderately trained high school artist would own this shit out of this dude. Shit man I know TONS of people better than this guy. SO BAD. Harsh but you can't put this guy next to Aja or Immomen or even Greg Land and say his art is good. No frickin way.:
Chaykin in the Annual was awful as usual. We've discussed him enough in other threads that I'd hope his name would be a sufficient warning, but just in case.. ughh. :
BUT Kevic Djurdjevic in the Annual was very impressive so overall good issue
All 4 Artists on the one shot were awesome, even with 4 really different styles:
Nick Dragotta Mike and Laura Allred for Part 1. I love clean art like this. thumbs up x 1000:
Russ Heath for Part 2 (this cowboy genre must really fit his art cause I didn't like his stuff earlier):
Lewis LaRosa, Stefano Guadiano and Matt Hollingsworth for Part 3. This is just f-in ill. No words for this.
Mitch Breitweiser and Matt Hollingsworth for Part 4. Not as good as parts 1 and 3, but better than Heath (who was still good):
So taking the whole series into account the art was awesome (Aja and Foreman) mixed with tolerable (all the others) in issues 1-6.
Awesome in issue 7 even with 3 different artists.
And has been mixing shit with diamonds in issues 8-12.
The annual was a mixed bag: awesome with Djurdjevic (who's normally a cover artist and apparently painted his parts of the issue but terrible with Chaykin).
and the one-shot had 4 awesome but wildly differing art styles. I liked parts 3 and 1 the best (Frankenstein and that scene at the magic show).
If you made it this far congrats, this post had an example of every single piece of art in Immortal Iron Fist issues 1-12 plus the annual and the one shot Orson Randall and the Green Mist of Death.
[/comic book guy]
So yeah if you've not been liking Iron Fist as much lately it's not just the slow story and the shitty Davos flashbacks, it's also the degrading art quality.
So I edited that some for PA forum readability and consumption.
Despite my critical tone I do still really love this book. Aja should either get more time to draw the book (making this bi-monthly would KILL me waiting but the end-product would be SO AWESOME) or the team should get better fill in artists. Maybe all the good artists were used up on the Orson one-shot because there is no excuse for the optical travesty of Javier Pulido in issue 12. Hell even Kano is pretty bad. His Davos doesn't even look remotely like the same person Aja is drawing (I know it's a different time period it's still awwwfuulll). I don't see how this series has gone from Foreman and Friedolfs filling in at the beginning to Kano and Pulido at the end. I was hoping it'd be Aja/Foreman and Friedolfs from here on out but it looks like Kano is on for 13 again (but Pulido is gone thank GOD) . Then in 14 it looks like we get an all Aja issue for this arc's conclusion (our first all Aja issue EVER) and then it looks like he's leaving the book for #15 to make way for Khari Evans! This is sad news but Khari Evans was awesome in issue 7 (see above) and her cover for #15 looks awesome:
valiance on
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NogsCrap, crap, mega crap.Crap, crap, mega crap.Registered Userregular
Well, you have to remember that artists like Heath, Severin, and Buscema are industry legends, and their art really fits with the time period the story is supposed to be set in.
Well, you have to remember that artists like Heath, Severin, and Buscema are industry legends, and their art really fits with the time period the story is supposed to be set in.
This is a good point. Thinking about it that way really makes me feel better about their art--or at least the reasoning behind having them on the book. That said I hope noone will be defending Kano or Pulido.
I find Kano's art to be very Guy Davis-esque, which I think is a good thing (Davis is probably best known for SANDMAN MYSTERY THEATER and BPRD). I've dug Chaykin's stuff since AMERICAN FLAGG!, but I agree that it's an aquired taste.
I'm not really familiar with Pulido's stuff, so I googled him. It's not bad work. For example:
(Spoilered for size)
His IRON FIST stuff appears to be rushed, but you can never know how much time an artist is really spending on a given page. Maybe he's trying to do an Aja imitation? Maybe he's getting the script really late? I have no idea.
Well, I'm making that assumption that, in my hypothetical ideal world, he didn't make any changes to his art beyond AWC/Danger Unlimited/The first twenty issues of Namor. His stuff after that seems a bit strange (with exceptions like Batman/Cap, or the first Generations series).
John Byrne circa 1992 definitely still had it, though.
I'm pretty sure you mean Dan Brereton, instead of Kevic Djurdjevic. I think Brereton did that stuff with the previous Bride and the Lightening Lords, while KD did the stuff with Orson fighting HYDRA on the train. I've actually liked pretty much all of the art, except Chaykin and a few panels of Javier Pulido's work.
Douglas on
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited March 2008
Guys I just realized something.
HYDRA worked for The Green Mist back in the day.
Seven Capitol Cities. Seven heads of HYDRA?
I know HYDRA already has an origin of sorts but... hmm.
EDIT: Except Hydras don't necessarily have seven heads.
So uh... never mind I guess.
EDIT EDIT: Except depictions of the Hydra have been influenced over the centuries by the Beast of the Apocalypse - which does have seven heads.
august on
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NogsCrap, crap, mega crap.Crap, crap, mega crap.Registered Userregular
edited March 2008
that is actually a really interesting point, august.
I'm pretty sure you mean Dan Brereton, instead of Kevic Djurdjevic. I think Brereton did that stuff with the previous Bride and the Lightening Lords, while KD did the stuff with Orson fighting HYDRA on the train. I've actually liked pretty much all of the art, except Chaykin and a few panels of Javier Pulido's work.
Yeah I was probably wrong on Djurdjevic, and also a little too harsh on the art in general. But hey, if anyone ever wants an example of all the art in Iron Fist thus far, now you have it.
That point about Hydra is pretty interesting.
Also note that Xao was one of the three Lightning Lords of Nepal, working for the (previous) Bride of Nine Spiders and was also grandfather of at least one, and probably all of the (presumably nine) Harem Harlots of Harlem. More importantly, he controlled HYDRA in his day! For those who don't remember I'd like to remind you that we currently have a different Xao in charge of the current HYDRA! I don't know if Fraction just likes the name Xao, but maybe there's something there? Xao does threaten to kill Davos one day in the first issue. Maybe he retains the electric powers of his forebearers? (old Xao and new Xao may not be related but considering they are both heads of HYDRA....) hrmmm
I know HYDRA already has an origin of sorts but... hmm.
EDIT: Except Hydras don't necessarily have seven heads.
So uh... never mind I guess.
EDIT EDIT: Except depictions of the Hydra have been influenced over the centuries by the Beast of the Apocalypse - which does have seven heads.
I like this idea because, while obviously shoehorned on, it still fits nicely. HYDRA has always been ambiguous in that its origins have next to nothing with whatever it's doing in any given issue of any given comic. Having it tied to some sort of mundane-world dream of returning to the Cities of Heaven would be interesting. Wikipedia states that the origins of HYDRA are in some Japanese group (demanding the question, why would an imperial Japanese group reference a Greek myth?)
This also would tied nicely into HYDRA working for Davos, in that perhaps the other Cities have determined HYDRA to have 'fallen from grace', as it were.
However, the seven-headed thing is problematic: the whole mantra of HYDRA as an organization is the "cut off one head, two grow in its place" concept borrowed from the Lernaean Hydra, which has an obvious issue here. However, that might be taken to describe their numbers, not the Seven Heads that would parallel the Seven Cities.
I'm just getting this weird vibe, but... Does anyone actually control Hydra?
Well, the Wiki page talks a good deal about it, but I do not believe that in the last few year's we've seen any information about who "runs" HYDRA. More importantly, I believe we've NEVER seen a "board meeting" or anything explaining how it's run from a purely business perspective.
It appears that, based on how Davos controlled them so far in Iron Fist, that they either can be contracted as a whole or as cells, etc.
Hydra used to be run by Madame Hydra.. but as we saw during the pre-Cvil War New Avengers, something is clearly up with them.. almost certainly they are under Skrull influence.
Hydra used to be run by Madame Hydra.. but as we saw during the pre-Cvil War New Avengers, something is clearly up with them.. almost certainly they are under Skrull influence.
it also used to be run by baron strucker
Servo on
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
I know HYDRA already has an origin of sorts but... hmm.
EDIT: Except Hydras don't necessarily have seven heads.
So uh... never mind I guess.
EDIT EDIT: Except depictions of the Hydra have been influenced over the centuries by the Beast of the Apocalypse - which does have seven heads.
I like this idea because, while obviously shoehorned on, it still fits nicely. HYDRA has always been ambiguous in that its origins have next to nothing with whatever it's doing in any given issue of any given comic. Having it tied to some sort of mundane-world dream of returning to the Cities of Heaven would be interesting. Wikipedia states that the origins of HYDRA are in some Japanese group (demanding the question, why would an imperial Japanese group reference a Greek myth?)
This also would tied nicely into HYDRA working for Davos, in that perhaps the other Cities have determined HYDRA to have 'fallen from grace', as it were.
However, the seven-headed thing is problematic: the whole mantra of HYDRA as an organization is the "cut off one head, two grow in its place" concept borrowed from the Lernaean Hydra, which has an obvious issue here. However, that might be taken to describe their numbers, not the Seven Heads that would parallel the Seven Cities.
Yeah, that's a problem. Essentially the whole point of HYDRA from the beginning was the whole decentralized leadership thing - which makes them the ultimate cannon fodder in the Marvel Universe, and you never have to explain why they might be working at cross-purposes in different books.
So it would be kind of a weird retcon but the whole book so far has been kind of a weird reton so... hmm.
My basic thought process flipping through the issue was like - "Man, it's kinda lame that HYDRA works for The Green Mist. Wait... are those guys HYDRA or are they just The Green Mist's 'men' dressed in green because they work for the guy? Oh wait, yeah they're HYDRA... and Orson knows that HYDRA = Green Mist. Hold up..."
So maybe they were a personal army of The Seven Cities discarded at some point. Which might explain while the whole thing seems personal for Xao.
I was hoping the HYDRA insignia had seven heads - but it's a skull with six tentacles so no dice there.
i basically went through the exact same line of reasoning there, august. i think they're working for one if not more heads of the seven cities
(which, keep in mind, didn't even "exist", continuity-wise before the new iron fist book started, so it's not much good looking too far back in hydra's comics past for clues as to any links they might have with the cities)
Servo on
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited March 2008
Honeslty I'm really hoping Fraction starts clearing shit up and this whole arc hangs together really well as a whole, becuase right now I'm not just feeling it like the first. The first had plenty of questions, but it ran forward at this crazy breakneck pace and you always finished an issue satisfied. Right now it's just like: well, the Yun-Ti might be bad I guess and doing stuff that's bad over the last fifty years and I guess something will happen and oh yeah there's a tournament but it dosen't really matter and Danny's running all over the globe. Tune in next time for: something?
Posts
PARKER, YOU'RE FIRED! <-- My comic book podcast! Satan look here!
yeah, that could be, especially with this whole 'revolution in heaven' thing coming to a head
Hm...
EDIT: Because I love you guys and your horizontal scrolls I spoiler tagged the images for increased readability.
You won't believe how much of a bitch this was to put together. Closer to 2 hrs than 1, but I regret NOTHING!
So I edited that some for PA forum readability and consumption.
Despite my critical tone I do still really love this book. Aja should either get more time to draw the book (making this bi-monthly would KILL me waiting but the end-product would be SO AWESOME) or the team should get better fill in artists. Maybe all the good artists were used up on the Orson one-shot because there is no excuse for the optical travesty of Javier Pulido in issue 12. Hell even Kano is pretty bad. His Davos doesn't even look remotely like the same person Aja is drawing (I know it's a different time period it's still awwwfuulll). I don't see how this series has gone from Foreman and Friedolfs filling in at the beginning to Kano and Pulido at the end. I was hoping it'd be Aja/Foreman and Friedolfs from here on out but it looks like Kano is on for 13 again (but Pulido is gone thank GOD) . Then in 14 it looks like we get an all Aja issue for this arc's conclusion (our first all Aja issue EVER) and then it looks like he's leaving the book for #15 to make way for Khari Evans! This is sad news but Khari Evans was awesome in issue 7 (see above) and her cover for #15 looks awesome:
PARKER, YOU'RE FIRED! <-- My comic book podcast! Satan look here!
Thanks.
This is a good point. Thinking about it that way really makes me feel better about their art--or at least the reasoning behind having them on the book. That said I hope noone will be defending Kano or Pulido.
I'm not really familiar with Pulido's stuff, so I googled him. It's not bad work. For example:
(Spoilered for size)
speaking of human target, i just realized i need to go post in a different thread
And on other stuff for Marvel.
John Byrne circa 1992 definitely still had it, though.
HYDRA worked for The Green Mist back in the day.
Seven Capitol Cities. Seven heads of HYDRA?
I know HYDRA already has an origin of sorts but... hmm.
EDIT: Except Hydras don't necessarily have seven heads.
So uh... never mind I guess.
EDIT EDIT: Except depictions of the Hydra have been influenced over the centuries by the Beast of the Apocalypse - which does have seven heads.
PARKER, YOU'RE FIRED! <-- My comic book podcast! Satan look here!
Yeah I was probably wrong on Djurdjevic, and also a little too harsh on the art in general. But hey, if anyone ever wants an example of all the art in Iron Fist thus far, now you have it.
That point about Hydra is pretty interesting.
Also note that Xao was one of the three Lightning Lords of Nepal, working for the (previous) Bride of Nine Spiders and was also grandfather of at least one, and probably all of the (presumably nine) Harem Harlots of Harlem. More importantly, he controlled HYDRA in his day! For those who don't remember I'd like to remind you that we currently have a different Xao in charge of the current HYDRA! I don't know if Fraction just likes the name Xao, but maybe there's something there? Xao does threaten to kill Davos one day in the first issue. Maybe he retains the electric powers of his forebearers? (old Xao and new Xao may not be related but considering they are both heads of HYDRA....) hrmmm
I like this idea because, while obviously shoehorned on, it still fits nicely. HYDRA has always been ambiguous in that its origins have next to nothing with whatever it's doing in any given issue of any given comic. Having it tied to some sort of mundane-world dream of returning to the Cities of Heaven would be interesting. Wikipedia states that the origins of HYDRA are in some Japanese group (demanding the question, why would an imperial Japanese group reference a Greek myth?)
This also would tied nicely into HYDRA working for Davos, in that perhaps the other Cities have determined HYDRA to have 'fallen from grace', as it were.
However, the seven-headed thing is problematic: the whole mantra of HYDRA as an organization is the "cut off one head, two grow in its place" concept borrowed from the Lernaean Hydra, which has an obvious issue here. However, that might be taken to describe their numbers, not the Seven Heads that would parallel the Seven Cities.
OT: Holy crap. How did I acccumulate nearly 10% of the posts in this thread?
Steam / Origin & Wii U: Heatwave111 / FC: 4227-1965-3206 / Battle.net: Heatwave#11356
Well, the Wiki page talks a good deal about it, but I do not believe that in the last few year's we've seen any information about who "runs" HYDRA. More importantly, I believe we've NEVER seen a "board meeting" or anything explaining how it's run from a purely business perspective.
It appears that, based on how Davos controlled them so far in Iron Fist, that they either can be contracted as a whole or as cells, etc.
it also used to be run by baron strucker
Yeah, that's a problem. Essentially the whole point of HYDRA from the beginning was the whole decentralized leadership thing - which makes them the ultimate cannon fodder in the Marvel Universe, and you never have to explain why they might be working at cross-purposes in different books.
So it would be kind of a weird retcon but the whole book so far has been kind of a weird reton so... hmm.
My basic thought process flipping through the issue was like - "Man, it's kinda lame that HYDRA works for The Green Mist. Wait... are those guys HYDRA or are they just The Green Mist's 'men' dressed in green because they work for the guy? Oh wait, yeah they're HYDRA... and Orson knows that HYDRA = Green Mist. Hold up..."
So maybe they were a personal army of The Seven Cities discarded at some point. Which might explain while the whole thing seems personal for Xao.
I was hoping the HYDRA insignia had seven heads - but it's a skull with six tentacles so no dice there.
(which, keep in mind, didn't even "exist", continuity-wise before the new iron fist book started, so it's not much good looking too far back in hydra's comics past for clues as to any links they might have with the cities)