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I was actually in this situation recently (and judging from what I've seen so far, I'm gonna get shat on), a buddy of mine showed up at my doorstep and told me that he was bringing my ex to a party we were going to that night. While I give him some respect for telling me (eventually, when he knew I would find out within the hour anyways), it did very serious damage to our friendship due to the lack of trust I perceived from him. They were over and done with after a few weeks, but me and him still don't speak.
I don't really know what the point of this post is, I suppose make sure that the relationship you're aiming to start is worth more than the one you're going to risk, I suppose.
Why don't you two speak?
I can understand how you're upset. I can understand how you may have wanted to stay away from him for a while, but allow long lasting effects?
You're out of a girl. He's out of a girl. And now you two no longer have a friendship. Seems like everyone lost here.
He has a "lets bang some girl for 3 weeks then forget her" attitude and thats fine by me, unless it's a girl that I fell in love with and had a significant relationship with. He simply didn't care that he would be hurting me, so I don't trust him and frankly, I don't need friends like that.
I thought we got over girls vs. boys and friends vs. lovers in the 90s.
Because at some point someone will have two of their exes who are also that person's closest friends wanting to date and all your stupid little mantras won't make a lick of sense beyond even their standard absurdity.
I thought we got over girls vs. boys and friends vs. lovers in the 90s.
Because at some point someone will have two of their exes who are also that person's closest friends wanting to date and all your stupid little mantras won't make a lick of sense beyond even their standard absurdity.
See, and I don't get how you can be so blase' about a friends feelings, regardless of whether or not those feelings are logical or rational.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I thought we got over girls vs. boys and friends vs. lovers in the 90s.
Because at some point someone will have two of their exes who are also that person's closest friends wanting to date and all your stupid little mantras won't make a lick of sense beyond even their standard absurdity.
See, and I don't get how you can be so blase' about a friends feelings, regardless of whether or not those feelings are logical or rational.
I think most of us do not understand how you can have friends with which this would be a genuine massive issue. We've internalized the normal boundaries regarding the edge of relationships, so when you talk about something like this it only ever gets viewed by us in terms of overly possessive people who don't seem like the type we'd be friends with normally (more acquaintances).
Honestly, I think a lot of the naysayers in this thread might be surprised about how their friends might feel in this particular situation.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I thought we got over girls vs. boys and friends vs. lovers in the 90s.
Because at some point someone will have two of their exes who are also that person's closest friends wanting to date and all your stupid little mantras won't make a lick of sense beyond even their standard absurdity.
See, and I don't get how you can be so blase' about a friends feelings, regardless of whether or not those feelings are logical or rational.
I think most of us do not understand how you can have friends with which this would be a genuine massive issue. We've internalized the normal boundaries regarding the edge of relationships, so when you talk about something like this it only ever gets viewed by us in terms of overly possessive people who don't seem like the type we'd be friends with normally (more acquaintances).
So when one of you breaks up with a girl it would be ok to smack him, say get over it and then have sex with her on the couch? obviously there is a boundary somewhere, and if you value your friendship perhaps you should at least try and find out before you start dating their ex.
Mishra on
"Give a man a fire, he's warm for the night. Set a man on fire he's warm for the rest of his life."
-Terry Pratchett
Honestly, I think a lot of the naysayers in this thread might be surprised about how their friends might feel in this particular situation.
Alternatively: Some of us would seriously reconsider a friendship where this kind of thing was an issue because, as I stated on page one, it is childish and unethical behavior.
If I discover someone is childish and/or unethical, and has no interest in becoming an ethical adult, I stop associating with them, because I do not value people who behave that way and have no desire to behave otherwise. Any friendship with such a person would have been under false pretenses.
Honestly, I think a lot of the naysayers in this thread might be surprised about how their friends might feel in this particular situation.
Alternatively: Some of us would seriously reconsider a friendship where this kind of thing was an issue because, as I stated on page one, it is childish and unethical behavior.
If I discover someone is childish and/or unethical, and has no interest in becoming an ethical adult, I stop associating with them, because I do not value people who behave that way and have no desire to behave otherwise. Any friendship with such a person would have been under false pretenses.
Considering your friends feelings is childish and unethical? Look no one is saying you can't date the girl, but that if you like your friend you might want to ask their feelings on the subject. Or is it just relationship always > than friendship in your crew? Has no one in your crew ever been dumped? Would they have appreciated you the next day inviting her over to make out?
Mishra on
"Give a man a fire, he's warm for the night. Set a man on fire he's warm for the rest of his life."
-Terry Pratchett
I thought we got over girls vs. boys and friends vs. lovers in the 90s.
Because at some point someone will have two of their exes who are also that person's closest friends wanting to date and all your stupid little mantras won't make a lick of sense beyond even their standard absurdity.
See, and I don't get how you can be so blase' about a friends feelings, regardless of whether or not those feelings are logical or rational.
I think most of us do not understand how you can have friends with which this would be a genuine massive issue. We've internalized the normal boundaries regarding the edge of relationships, so when you talk about something like this it only ever gets viewed by us in terms of overly possessive people who don't seem like the type we'd be friends with normally (more acquaintances).
I don't think it would be a massive issue with myself or any of my friends. I can however see where it might stir up some painful emotions for myself or my friends that, while they would never be anywhere near destroying the friendship, might still be painful. Whether or not the friendship would be destroyed is not the issue for me, because I have faith in the strength of my friendships. Causing painful emotions in a friend is the issue and would give me pause if I thought it was a possibility. Certainly enough of a pause to at the very least want their input on the situation.
Now I'm assuming we're talking about the simplest possible scenario and there aren't any strong feelings between yourself and the girl/guy and you just meet someone who your friend used to date and was possibly seriously involved with at some point and you want to ask her/him out. In that situation if they felt akward about it or weren't ok with it? I wouldn't date the girl. It has nothing to do with placing no value on the girls feelings. It has to do with one thing and one thing only- not wanting to hurt someone I consider a friend. I really wish people would stop trying to turn this into some sort of sexist thing. Where did the assumption came from that this is only a guy thing?
Obviously all of this can and be and often is far more complicated than the scenario I layed out above but trying to come up with a solid answer to every plausible scenario is pointless. If it's complicated? Well, put some thought into it and do what you think is best.
Considering your friends feelings is childish and unethical? Look no one is saying you can't date the girl, but that if you like your friend you might want to ask their feelings on the subject. Or is it just relationship always > than friendship in your crew? Has no one in your crew ever been dumped? Would they have appreciated you the next day inviting her over to make out?
Friendships are relationships, and anyone I'm going to try to get naked is someone I'm going to consider part of my "crew" to begin with. I'd be a dipshit to think that someone I may end up marrying is NOT part of my "crew." Also the fact that you use the term "crew" is in itself something I find disgusting. I have friendships with individuals, not groups.
Considering your friends feelings is childish and unethical? Look no one is saying you can't date the girl, but that if you like your friend you might want to ask their feelings on the subject. Or is it just relationship always > than friendship in your crew? Has no one in your crew ever been dumped? Would they have appreciated you the next day inviting her over to make out?
Friendships are relationships, and anyone I'm going to try to get naked is someone I'm going to consider part of my "crew" to begin with. I'd be a dipshit to think that someone I may end up marrying is NOT part of my "crew." Also the fact that you use the term "crew" is in itself something I find disgusting. I have friendships with individuals, not groups.
So you don't have a circle of friends who all know each other just a group of individuals who have never interacted with each other? I'm having trouble picturing your social circle(a term I hope is inoffensive to your sensibilities)
Mishra on
"Give a man a fire, he's warm for the night. Set a man on fire he's warm for the rest of his life."
-Terry Pratchett
So you don't have a circle of friends who all know each other just a group of individuals who have never interacted with each other? I'm having trouble picturing your social circle(a term I hope is inoffensive to your sensibilities)
Group activities are group activities, friendships are one on one. I do not confuse "doing things with a group" with "friendship." I used to hang out with a decent-sized pack of people. The only ones I can even recognize on sight anymore are the ones I had private conversations with.
So you don't have a circle of friends who all know each other just a group of individuals who have never interacted with each other? I'm having trouble picturing your social circle(a term I hope is inoffensive to your sensibilities)
Group activities are group activities, friendships are one on one. I do not confuse "doing things with a group" with "friendship." I used to hang out with a decent-sized pack of people. The only ones I can even recognize on sight anymore are the ones I had private conversations with.
So do your friends not know each other have parties things of that nature? It just seems incredibly pedantic this distinction your making. Can you not see being involved in a group situation where you might make your friend uncomfortable? Or would you just say screw that pussy for not being able to watch me make out with his ex wife?
Mishra on
"Give a man a fire, he's warm for the night. Set a man on fire he's warm for the rest of his life."
-Terry Pratchett
Incenjucar, I think you're probably right. However, I still think that, especially if your friend broke up with this person recently, or if said breakup was less than mutual, it should at least be discussed. Lots of people are childish and selfish, and based on this diagram:
We can clearly see no interaction between a person's emotions and logic. Ergo I think a discussion with the friend would be warranted.
So do your friends not know each other have parties things of that nature? It just seems incredibly pedantic this distinction your making. Can you not see being involved in a group situation where you might make your friend uncomfortable? Or would you just say screw that pussy for not being able to watch me make out with his ex wife?
I don't do parties, so honestly I have no fucking clue. And no, it isn't pedantic at all. When you ally yourself with a group you're much less likely to have a fully-formed opinion of most of the individuals in that group, and you're not going to be able to determine whether or not an individual is actually worth being friends with. Do you actually -know- any of your "friends?"
As for comfort, most people don't want to watch anyone makeout with anyone else to begin with, unless they were planning on getting off to it.
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Terr: I said pretty early on that it's POLITE to speak with your friends about things. I have never said otherwise.
Thing is, every time someone says "lol people are emotional lol" let me remind that people are emotional about a lot of shit and in doing so are frowned upon by society. This should be no different.
So do your friends not know each other have parties things of that nature? It just seems incredibly pedantic this distinction your making. Can you not see being involved in a group situation where you might make your friend uncomfortable? Or would you just say screw that pussy for not being able to watch me make out with his ex wife?
I don't do parties, so honestly I have no fucking clue. And no, it isn't pedantic at all. When you ally yourself with a group you're much less likely to have a fully-formed opinion of most of the individuals in that group, and you're not going to be able to determine whether or not an individual is actually worth being friends with. Do you actually -know- any of your "friends?"
As for comfort, most people don't want to watch anyone makeout with anyone else to begin with, unless they were planning on getting off to it.
Yes quite a few it is possible, and occasionally we enjoy getting together with other of our friends for group gatherings like going to the theater, or having dinner. Other than that I don't know what to say. Are you you friends with people who are dating? do any of your friends have spouses? what would you do if one cheated on the other?
Mishra on
"Give a man a fire, he's warm for the night. Set a man on fire he's warm for the rest of his life."
-Terry Pratchett
So do your friends not know each other have parties things of that nature? It just seems incredibly pedantic this distinction your making. Can you not see being involved in a group situation where you might make your friend uncomfortable? Or would you just say screw that pussy for not being able to watch me make out with his ex wife?
I don't do parties, so honestly I have no fucking clue. And no, it isn't pedantic at all. When you ally yourself with a group you're much less likely to have a fully-formed opinion of most of the individuals in that group, and you're not going to be able to determine whether or not an individual is actually worth being friends with. Do you actually -know- any of your "friends?"
As for comfort, most people don't want to watch anyone makeout with anyone else to begin with, unless they were planning on getting off to it.
--
Terr: I said pretty early on that it's POLITE to speak with your friends about things. I have never said otherwise.
Thing is, every time someone says "lol people are emotional lol" let me remind that people are emotional about a lot of shit and in doing so are frowned upon by society. This should be no different.
Yeah, that one is my bad. I read the argument on the first page and skipped to the end, where I saw that you were still arguing and made the fallacious assumption that you were still arguing the same point. I had the diagram from something else I was doing earlier today and saw an opportunity to shoehorn it into the conversation.
Yes quite a few it is possible, and occasionally we enjoy getting together with other of our friends for group gatherings like going to the theater, or having dinner.
Quite a few? Not all of them?
Other than that I don't know what to say. Are you you friends with people who are dating? do any of your friends have spouses? what would you do if one cheated on the other?
I've been cheated on and I've been dumped. I cried a bit and then slipped back into just friends mode. If one cheated on another, they would get a lecture. Which has nothing to do with exes.
Yes quite a few it is possible, and occasionally we enjoy getting together with other of our friends for group gatherings like going to the theater, or having dinner.
Quite a few? Not all of them?
Other than that I don't know what to say. Are you you friends with people who are dating? do any of your friends have spouses? what would you do if one cheated on the other?
I've been cheated on and I've been dumped. I cried a bit and then slipped back into just friends mode. If one cheated on another, they would get a lecture. Which has nothing to do with exes.
I have friends I've known all my life and people I know from work who I have drinks with after work sometimes but am not particularly close with, so what? Look I'm just trying to figure out why you think it's childish for someone to feel betrayed if a friend starts dating and ex immediately after a break-up. If you've experienced the pain of a breakup can't you see that some people may not like it if one of their friends immediately reminds them of the old relationship while they're in that very emotional state?
Mishra on
"Give a man a fire, he's warm for the night. Set a man on fire he's warm for the rest of his life."
-Terry Pratchett
Again, childish and unethical. I'm not saying it's abnormal, I'm saying it's bad and you shouldn't do it, like yelling at the dog because you had a bad day.
Again, childish and unethical. I'm not saying it's abnormal, I'm saying it's bad and you shouldn't do it, like yelling at the dog because you had a bad day.
Well good luck with that, I think it's more like telling the dog not to chase its own tail. You can try, but thats some pretty ingrained instinctyour trying to overcome.
Mishra on
"Give a man a fire, he's warm for the night. Set a man on fire he's warm for the rest of his life."
-Terry Pratchett
Well good luck with that, I think it's more like telling the dog not to chase its own tail. You can try, but thats some pretty ingrained instinctyour trying to overcome.
There are several people in this thread alone who have expressed a position suggesting they have overcome the instinct, and already know I have, as have those I'm close to, so obviously not everyone is subject to this tyranny of nature you're defending.
Well good luck with that, I think it's more like telling the dog not to chase its own tail. You can try, but thats some pretty ingrained instinctyour trying to overcome.
There are several people in this thread alone who have expressed a position suggesting they have overcome the instinct, and already know I have, as have those I'm close to, so obviously not everyone is subject to this tyranny of nature you're defending.
Maybe, but just cause your happy doesn't mean other people can't suffer from depression. If you value a friendship I think Your better off at least talking to your friend before trying to date their ex.
Mishra on
"Give a man a fire, he's warm for the night. Set a man on fire he's warm for the rest of his life."
-Terry Pratchett
Ah more of the same old "what do I care eff convention" of D&D.
I would never date a friends ex. I would not want any of my friends dating my exs.
I have a friend dating one of my other friends sisters. It's an awfully awkward situation. I wouldn't even ask permission, I just wouldn't ... but maybe that's just how I roll.
I'm not saying that my thought process is right or that any other thought process is wrong, I am just saying that I personally find it to be a pretty dick move and I think me and my friends are like-minded hence us being friends and all.
Maybe, but just cause your happy doesn't mean other people can't suffer from depression. If you value a friendship I think Your better off at least talking to your friend before trying to date their ex.
I have already stated that those people need therapy, and that I would rethink the value of a friend who kept me from romance with another friend simply because they had sex with that friend first. And, again, talking is good, it is polite. I have nothing against being polite.
--
Ronaldo: Convention is a horrible example of how to behave.
It's dangerous to confuse causing yourself pain with pain being caused by someone else. Certainly it would be nice for friends to explain why your behavior is childish and unethical, and allow for the easing-into of reality.
Absolutely no reason not to fuck like bunnies when that friend isn't in the room though.
I find this kinda interesting. about 3 years ago on new years eve i got very black out drunk and made out with one of my best friends exes right in front of him. they had broken up a few months before but were trying to be friends. all i remember is getting to the bar and having fun talking to her, then it was after midnight and we were making out.
i felt very conflicted the next day. he was a good friend and i felt bad. but i also liked her and i wasnt sure what would happen. was she more important than him? i was too drunk to get her number that night and i couldnt ask him to give it to me. after a few rocky weeks me and him talked it out and it wasnt a big deal. a few months later i got a job and moved away. i havent seen her since, but i am still good friends with the guy.
edit: so im not sure what this proves. there was no real relationship to speak of, but he was hurt anyway. honestly if i had felt there was the potential for a long term relationship with her i would of pursued it and hoped for his blessing. but if he wasn't willing to grant it i think that would have indicated something about the friendship.
Ah more of the same old "what do I care eff convention" of D&D.
I would never date a friends ex. I would not want any of my friends dating my exs.
I have a friend dating one of my other friends sisters. It's an awfully awkward situation. I wouldn't even ask permission, I just wouldn't ... but maybe that's just how I roll.
I'm not saying that my thought process is right or that any other thought process is wrong, I am just saying that I personally find it to be a pretty dick move and I think me and my friends are like-minded hence us being friends and all.
Never? So what if... what if you're going out with a girl and then after a month or two, you find out that she had in the past gone out with a friend of yours? Do you break up with her?
It's dangerous to confuse causing yourself pain with pain being caused by someone else. Certainly it would be nice for friends to explain why your behavior is childish and unethical, and allow for the easing-into of reality.
Absolutely no reason not to fuck like bunnies when that friend isn't in the room though.
Hmm so the most extreme example used right now is friend and girl break up, you immediately (let's say a day or tw) go after girl and it seems like you're saying that doing so is not wrong in any way to you. I may have this wrong so correct me if so. Are you upfront with your friend about it then? Do you mention it to them at the earliest opportunity? Because that seems like it would cause undue stress on the friend. Yeah, it's not rational but hearing that you're going out with her so soon after the break up is going to cause some tension.
Ah more of the same old "what do I care eff convention" of D&D.
I would never date a friends ex. I would not want any of my friends dating my exs.
I have a friend dating one of my other friends sisters. It's an awfully awkward situation. I wouldn't even ask permission, I just wouldn't ... but maybe that's just how I roll.
I'm not saying that my thought process is right or that any other thought process is wrong, I am just saying that I personally find it to be a pretty dick move and I think me and my friends are like-minded hence us being friends and all.
Never? So what if... what if you're going out with a girl and then after a month or two, you find out that she had in the past gone out with a friend of yours? Do you break up with her?
That's probably not enough, best kill her and dispose of the body.
Ah more of the same old "what do I care eff convention" of D&D.
I would never date a friends ex. I would not want any of my friends dating my exs.
I have a friend dating one of my other friends sisters. It's an awfully awkward situation. I wouldn't even ask permission, I just wouldn't ... but maybe that's just how I roll.
I'm not saying that my thought process is right or that any other thought process is wrong, I am just saying that I personally find it to be a pretty dick move and I think me and my friends are like-minded hence us being friends and all.
Never? So what if... what if you're going out with a girl and then after a month or two, you find out that she had in the past gone out with a friend of yours? Do you break up with her?
That's probably not enough, best kill her and dispose of the body.
Or do whatever I want and tell anybody else who gets sad to just get therapy and fellate myself online for self-affirming my thoughts and pissing on anybody who buys into the archaic notions of common decency. Fuck you dinosaurs and your ways, I do whatever I want and because I have a circular reasoning for doing it I am right and can prove you wrong all day every day and when you try to present another case I will just use hyperbole and nonsense to point out that in reality it's somebody else's fault, etc.
But really ... I'm not talking about 'had ever gone out with anybody I was ever friends with ever' I am talking about gone out with any of my best friends that I care about enough to consider this shit about in the first place, and chances are if they went out with one of them I would already know them or know of them and wouldn't go out with them in the first place.
And yeah! I break up with her and slash her tires and digitally remaster Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars Trilogy. I'm a fucking hardass bitchass bitch ass ass bitch.
I'd likely avoid dating a friend's ex (talk to them about it first etc), but not out of consideration for their feelings, rather out of consideration for their judgment. If a friend broke up with someone it is likely for a good reason, knowing that reason will help me to determine the best course of action in regards to a possible relationship.
Ah more of the same old "what do I care eff convention" of D&D.
I would never date a friends ex. I would not want any of my friends dating my exs.
I have a friend dating one of my other friends sisters. It's an awfully awkward situation. I wouldn't even ask permission, I just wouldn't ... but maybe that's just how I roll.
I'm not saying that my thought process is right or that any other thought process is wrong, I am just saying that I personally find it to be a pretty dick move and I think me and my friends are like-minded hence us being friends and all.
Never? So what if... what if you're going out with a girl and then after a month or two, you find out that she had in the past gone out with a friend of yours? Do you break up with her?
That's probably not enough, best kill her and dispose of the body.
Or do whatever I want and tell anybody else who gets sad to just get therapy and fellate myself online for self-affirming my thoughts and pissing on anybody who buys into the archaic notions of common decency. Fuck you dinosaurs and your ways, I do whatever I want and because I have a circular reasoning for doing it I am right and can prove you wrong all day every day and when you try to present another case I will just use hyperbole and nonsense to point out that in reality it's somebody else's fault, etc.
But really ... I'm not talking about 'had ever gone out with anybody I was ever friends with ever' I am talking about gone out with any of my best friends that I care about enough to consider this shit about in the first place, and chances are if they went out with one of them I would already know them or know of them and wouldn't go out with them in the first place.
And yeah! I break up with her and slash her tires and digitally remaster Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars Trilogy. I'm a fucking hardass bitchass bitch ass ass bitch.
The fact is this: Not wanting your friend to date your ex is borne solely out of two things: Jealousy and Possessiveness. No matter what your reasoning may be, any honest, thorough investigation of why you don't want your friend to date your ex will boil down to one or both of those feelings.
Sure, respect for one's friends is important. So the question is whether or not you are willing to respect your friends' jealousy and/or possessiveness. I will never respect or even tolerate the latter among my friends. The former, though, is a normal human emotion. So it would weigh on my decision, naturally. But even so it doesn't mean my friend is right to impose some kind of embargo on the girl just because he's jealous. I consider "jealousy" to be a natural human emotion, but those that let jealousy drive them are weak. It can be, and should be, overcome. It's a baser emotion and I'm not really for forgiving those that indulge in it to excess.
Ah more of the same old "what do I care eff convention" of D&D.
I would never date a friends ex. I would not want any of my friends dating my exs.
I have a friend dating one of my other friends sisters. It's an awfully awkward situation. I wouldn't even ask permission, I just wouldn't ... but maybe that's just how I roll.
I'm not saying that my thought process is right or that any other thought process is wrong, I am just saying that I personally find it to be a pretty dick move and I think me and my friends are like-minded hence us being friends and all.
Never? So what if... what if you're going out with a girl and then after a month or two, you find out that she had in the past gone out with a friend of yours? Do you break up with her?
That's probably not enough, best kill her and dispose of the body.
Or do whatever I want and tell anybody else who gets sad to just get therapy and fellate myself online for self-affirming my thoughts and pissing on anybody who buys into the archaic notions of common decency. Fuck you dinosaurs and your ways, I do whatever I want and because I have a circular reasoning for doing it I am right and can prove you wrong all day every day and when you try to present another case I will just use hyperbole and nonsense to point out that in reality it's somebody else's fault, etc.
But really ... I'm not talking about 'had ever gone out with anybody I was ever friends with ever' I am talking about gone out with any of my best friends that I care about enough to consider this shit about in the first place, and chances are if they went out with one of them I would already know them or know of them and wouldn't go out with them in the first place.
And yeah! I break up with her and slash her tires and digitally remaster Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars Trilogy. I'm a fucking hardass bitchass bitch ass ass bitch.
The fact is this: Not wanting your friend to date your ex is borne solely out of two things: Jealousy and Possessiveness. No matter what your reasoning may be, any honest, thorough investigation of why you don't want your friend to date your ex will boil down to one or both of those feelings.
Sure, respect for one's friends is important. So the question is whether or not you are willing to respect your friends' jealousy and/or possessiveness. I will never respect or even tolerate the latter among my friends. The former, though, is a normal human emotion. So it would weigh on my decision, naturally. But even so it doesn't mean my friend is right to impose some kind of embargo on the girl just because he's jealous. I consider "jealousy" to be a natural human emotion, but those that let jealousy drive them are weak. It can be, and should be, overcome. It's a baser emotion and I'm not really for forgiving those that indulge in it to excess.
you forgot rejection and general feelings of inadequacy. there's probably plenty of others. It's not so cut and dry that it ends up being an issue of jealousy or possessiveness.
I'd likely avoid dating a friend's ex (talk to them about it first etc), but not out of consideration for their feelings, rather out of consideration for their judgment. If a friend broke up with someone it is likely for a good reason, knowing that reason will help me to determine the best course of action in regards to a possible relationship.
Well, that again depends on context. Some people just aren't good for each other but don't find out right away; sometimes it takes awhile to figure it out. Just because Person A and Person B aren't compatible doesn't mean Person C and Person B won't be.
Posts
Your choice now makes much more sense.
I thought we got over girls vs. boys and friends vs. lovers in the 90s.
Because at some point someone will have two of their exes who are also that person's closest friends wanting to date and all your stupid little mantras won't make a lick of sense beyond even their standard absurdity.
Common courtesy and all that.
See, and I don't get how you can be so blase' about a friends feelings, regardless of whether or not those feelings are logical or rational.
Honestly, I think a lot of the naysayers in this thread might be surprised about how their friends might feel in this particular situation.
So when one of you breaks up with a girl it would be ok to smack him, say get over it and then have sex with her on the couch? obviously there is a boundary somewhere, and if you value your friendship perhaps you should at least try and find out before you start dating their ex.
-Terry Pratchett
Alternatively: Some of us would seriously reconsider a friendship where this kind of thing was an issue because, as I stated on page one, it is childish and unethical behavior.
If I discover someone is childish and/or unethical, and has no interest in becoming an ethical adult, I stop associating with them, because I do not value people who behave that way and have no desire to behave otherwise. Any friendship with such a person would have been under false pretenses.
Considering your friends feelings is childish and unethical? Look no one is saying you can't date the girl, but that if you like your friend you might want to ask their feelings on the subject. Or is it just relationship always > than friendship in your crew? Has no one in your crew ever been dumped? Would they have appreciated you the next day inviting her over to make out?
-Terry Pratchett
I don't think it would be a massive issue with myself or any of my friends. I can however see where it might stir up some painful emotions for myself or my friends that, while they would never be anywhere near destroying the friendship, might still be painful. Whether or not the friendship would be destroyed is not the issue for me, because I have faith in the strength of my friendships. Causing painful emotions in a friend is the issue and would give me pause if I thought it was a possibility. Certainly enough of a pause to at the very least want their input on the situation.
Now I'm assuming we're talking about the simplest possible scenario and there aren't any strong feelings between yourself and the girl/guy and you just meet someone who your friend used to date and was possibly seriously involved with at some point and you want to ask her/him out. In that situation if they felt akward about it or weren't ok with it? I wouldn't date the girl. It has nothing to do with placing no value on the girls feelings. It has to do with one thing and one thing only- not wanting to hurt someone I consider a friend. I really wish people would stop trying to turn this into some sort of sexist thing. Where did the assumption came from that this is only a guy thing?
Obviously all of this can and be and often is far more complicated than the scenario I layed out above but trying to come up with a solid answer to every plausible scenario is pointless. If it's complicated? Well, put some thought into it and do what you think is best.
Friendships are relationships, and anyone I'm going to try to get naked is someone I'm going to consider part of my "crew" to begin with. I'd be a dipshit to think that someone I may end up marrying is NOT part of my "crew." Also the fact that you use the term "crew" is in itself something I find disgusting. I have friendships with individuals, not groups.
So you don't have a circle of friends who all know each other just a group of individuals who have never interacted with each other? I'm having trouble picturing your social circle(a term I hope is inoffensive to your sensibilities)
-Terry Pratchett
Group activities are group activities, friendships are one on one. I do not confuse "doing things with a group" with "friendship." I used to hang out with a decent-sized pack of people. The only ones I can even recognize on sight anymore are the ones I had private conversations with.
So do your friends not know each other have parties things of that nature? It just seems incredibly pedantic this distinction your making. Can you not see being involved in a group situation where you might make your friend uncomfortable? Or would you just say screw that pussy for not being able to watch me make out with his ex wife?
-Terry Pratchett
I don't do parties, so honestly I have no fucking clue. And no, it isn't pedantic at all. When you ally yourself with a group you're much less likely to have a fully-formed opinion of most of the individuals in that group, and you're not going to be able to determine whether or not an individual is actually worth being friends with. Do you actually -know- any of your "friends?"
As for comfort, most people don't want to watch anyone makeout with anyone else to begin with, unless they were planning on getting off to it.
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Terr: I said pretty early on that it's POLITE to speak with your friends about things. I have never said otherwise.
Thing is, every time someone says "lol people are emotional lol" let me remind that people are emotional about a lot of shit and in doing so are frowned upon by society. This should be no different.
Yes quite a few it is possible, and occasionally we enjoy getting together with other of our friends for group gatherings like going to the theater, or having dinner. Other than that I don't know what to say. Are you you friends with people who are dating? do any of your friends have spouses? what would you do if one cheated on the other?
-Terry Pratchett
Yeah, that one is my bad. I read the argument on the first page and skipped to the end, where I saw that you were still arguing and made the fallacious assumption that you were still arguing the same point. I had the diagram from something else I was doing earlier today and saw an opportunity to shoehorn it into the conversation.
Quite a few? Not all of them?
I've been cheated on and I've been dumped. I cried a bit and then slipped back into just friends mode. If one cheated on another, they would get a lecture. Which has nothing to do with exes.
I have friends I've known all my life and people I know from work who I have drinks with after work sometimes but am not particularly close with, so what? Look I'm just trying to figure out why you think it's childish for someone to feel betrayed if a friend starts dating and ex immediately after a break-up. If you've experienced the pain of a breakup can't you see that some people may not like it if one of their friends immediately reminds them of the old relationship while they're in that very emotional state?
-Terry Pratchett
Well good luck with that, I think it's more like telling the dog not to chase its own tail. You can try, but thats some pretty ingrained instinctyour trying to overcome.
-Terry Pratchett
There are several people in this thread alone who have expressed a position suggesting they have overcome the instinct, and already know I have, as have those I'm close to, so obviously not everyone is subject to this tyranny of nature you're defending.
Maybe, but just cause your happy doesn't mean other people can't suffer from depression. If you value a friendship I think Your better off at least talking to your friend before trying to date their ex.
-Terry Pratchett
I would never date a friends ex. I would not want any of my friends dating my exs.
I have a friend dating one of my other friends sisters. It's an awfully awkward situation. I wouldn't even ask permission, I just wouldn't ... but maybe that's just how I roll.
I'm not saying that my thought process is right or that any other thought process is wrong, I am just saying that I personally find it to be a pretty dick move and I think me and my friends are like-minded hence us being friends and all.
I have already stated that those people need therapy, and that I would rethink the value of a friend who kept me from romance with another friend simply because they had sex with that friend first. And, again, talking is good, it is polite. I have nothing against being polite.
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Ronaldo: Convention is a horrible example of how to behave.
It is good to talk to the friend first, as it may hurt them.
Maybe they do need therapy. A lot of people get therapy from their friends. They don't expect them to be the source of pain.
It isn't really about being macho or owning someone.
Absolutely no reason not to fuck like bunnies when that friend isn't in the room though.
i felt very conflicted the next day. he was a good friend and i felt bad. but i also liked her and i wasnt sure what would happen. was she more important than him? i was too drunk to get her number that night and i couldnt ask him to give it to me. after a few rocky weeks me and him talked it out and it wasnt a big deal. a few months later i got a job and moved away. i havent seen her since, but i am still good friends with the guy.
edit: so im not sure what this proves. there was no real relationship to speak of, but he was hurt anyway. honestly if i had felt there was the potential for a long term relationship with her i would of pursued it and hoped for his blessing. but if he wasn't willing to grant it i think that would have indicated something about the friendship.
Never? So what if... what if you're going out with a girl and then after a month or two, you find out that she had in the past gone out with a friend of yours? Do you break up with her?
Edit:
Hmm so the most extreme example used right now is friend and girl break up, you immediately (let's say a day or tw) go after girl and it seems like you're saying that doing so is not wrong in any way to you. I may have this wrong so correct me if so. Are you upfront with your friend about it then? Do you mention it to them at the earliest opportunity? Because that seems like it would cause undue stress on the friend. Yeah, it's not rational but hearing that you're going out with her so soon after the break up is going to cause some tension.
Do people often break up and then get back together?
Might the friend still have hope?
Incen, you are the one being childish about this.
Depends on the relationship, but this isn't about cheating, this is about dating someone who is currently without a date.
And...?
And...?
No. I simply don't let sad emotions prevent happy emotions from forming.
That's probably not enough, best kill her and dispose of the body.
Or do whatever I want and tell anybody else who gets sad to just get therapy and fellate myself online for self-affirming my thoughts and pissing on anybody who buys into the archaic notions of common decency. Fuck you dinosaurs and your ways, I do whatever I want and because I have a circular reasoning for doing it I am right and can prove you wrong all day every day and when you try to present another case I will just use hyperbole and nonsense to point out that in reality it's somebody else's fault, etc.
But really ... I'm not talking about 'had ever gone out with anybody I was ever friends with ever' I am talking about gone out with any of my best friends that I care about enough to consider this shit about in the first place, and chances are if they went out with one of them I would already know them or know of them and wouldn't go out with them in the first place.
And yeah! I break up with her and slash her tires and digitally remaster Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars Trilogy. I'm a fucking hardass bitchass bitch ass ass bitch.
The fact is this: Not wanting your friend to date your ex is borne solely out of two things: Jealousy and Possessiveness. No matter what your reasoning may be, any honest, thorough investigation of why you don't want your friend to date your ex will boil down to one or both of those feelings.
Sure, respect for one's friends is important. So the question is whether or not you are willing to respect your friends' jealousy and/or possessiveness. I will never respect or even tolerate the latter among my friends. The former, though, is a normal human emotion. So it would weigh on my decision, naturally. But even so it doesn't mean my friend is right to impose some kind of embargo on the girl just because he's jealous. I consider "jealousy" to be a natural human emotion, but those that let jealousy drive them are weak. It can be, and should be, overcome. It's a baser emotion and I'm not really for forgiving those that indulge in it to excess.
you forgot rejection and general feelings of inadequacy. there's probably plenty of others. It's not so cut and dry that it ends up being an issue of jealousy or possessiveness.
Well, that again depends on context. Some people just aren't good for each other but don't find out right away; sometimes it takes awhile to figure it out. Just because Person A and Person B aren't compatible doesn't mean Person C and Person B won't be.