Hey Tim, what weapons loadout are you planning to take on the Vulture? I have Imperial Armour Apocalypse and the quad rocket pods look really deadly. Four 5" blasts plus the nose heavy bolter per round? I'd take 2. ...this is of course presuming the same restrictions about defensive/offensive weapons apply to flyers. The rocket pods are str4 is my point.
To the person who was asking about other 40k forums, I visit Bell of Lost Souls and Eternity of War. I also go to Dakkadakka and warseer for their modelling blogs, but I always regret reading replies to anything.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Hey Tim, what weapons loadout are you planning to take on the Vulture? I have Imperial Armour Apocalypse and the quad rocket pods look really deadly. Four 5" blasts plus the nose heavy bolter per round? I'd take 2. ...this is of course presuming the same restrictions about defensive/offensive weapons apply to flyers. The rocket pods are str4 is my point.
To the person who was asking about other 40k forums, I visit Bell of Lost Souls and Eternity of War. I also go to Dakkadakka and warseer for their modelling blogs, but I always regret reading replies to anything.
I'm fairly certain that the flier rule allows them to fire as if they are stationary. As for armaments I got the default which is lascannons and rocket pods. Anything else I'm going to scratch build and magnetize.
Damn I need to get IA: Apoc
*edit* Looking at IA:1 you can get two sets of two multiple rocket pods for +100. However this allows you to fire 8 strength 4, ap 6 blast templates a turn. Plus the heavy bolter and that's a lot of dead horde armies.
To the person who was asking about other 40k forums, I visit Bell of Lost Souls and Eternity of War. I also go to Dakkadakka and warseer for their modelling blogs, but I always regret reading replies to anything.
If you want to build lists to win games without consideration of how the other guy feels about your list, Dakka is the place to go. Unfortunately, they also tend to attract a lot of assholes.
How many troops choices should I be running in a 1000/1.5k list?
This is the first time ive ever made a list and so far I'm finding it immensely daunting. Eldar by the way. I figured I'd go with what I see being run and what I've read as effective and so far ive got wrirten down.
Farseer with doom and spear
10 dire avengers with exarch dual cats and bladestorm
these guys gonna go in a serpent with spirit stones I figure. Though I dunno what weapons?
10 more avengers with exarch shimmershield/powerweapon and defend
footsloggers
and finally 5 rangers/pathfinders.
awesome models!
Now I'm looking to my heavy support and elites options. Where there is FAR too much goodness to possibly pick from. Though of course I want a wraithlord.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
One troop choice per 500 points is generally a good rule of thumb if you don't have plans for the otherwise.
Visiting Dakka and Warseer fills me with just this enormous feeling of disappointment. It's like ... you get insulated when you play with your friends, y'know? You forget who the mainstream is. I visit other 40k communities and I feel profoundly embarassed, because this is the association people have with this hobby. The neckbeards are the enemy.
...Anyways.
I think I may have asked this in a earlier incarnation of this thread, but I don't think it was answered. I found this: Imperial Guard High Commanders, and I was curious about it's provenance. The page gives the WD#, but I'm not familiar with the US numbering system, so I have no idea how old it is. It's clearly 4th ed, but other than that I'm clueless. Has anyone played with these rules? I also heard that WD published some rules for alternate IG abhumans -- things like pseudo beastmen an' stuff. Does anyone know where I might find them?
One troop choice per 500 points is generally a good rule of thumb if you don't have plans for the otherwise.
Most excellent, thanks!
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
Just don't forget you have to take 2 troops minimum. ^_^
I have the High Commanders issue lying around somewhere. I got it a couple of years ago, for what that's worth. The rules are nifty and flavorful. I forget where the extra IG rules came from though.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
I was putting some guy together right now and started looking at my bits. 30 minutes later I now have a Heavy Stubber Fire Support Squad. Let's hope they add those to the codex now :P
If Heavy Stubbers and Sniper Rifles aren't available to IG squads as special weapons, I'm going to be slightly disappointed. Stubbers should at least be available as hull and sponson weapons on tanks, and I'm really hoping that they can be bought as a co-axial weapon for battle and vanquisher cannons.
Then again I'm also hoping that they seperate the tank cannons into an HE (say str4ap6 5"blast) and an roll to-hit AT shell (str8ap3ordnance), kind of like a diet coke version of hammerhead. It would make the basic LR cheaper, while also giving a reason to take executioners. This is probably a bad idea.
edit: oh, and mortars should be able to fire smoke like in FoW. Hit an enemy unit with smoke and force them to use night fighting rules during their next shooting phase.
Played another game with my 1850 list today. Against the same Ork opponent I played last time, but he went back and retooled his list to combat mine. Testing my list against things that are purposefully built to kill it is what I have been after.
I won again... By the end of Turn 2, I had eliminated Doc and his boyz and positioned myself to take 2 of the 3 objectives during Turn 3. I took some casualties on Turns 3/4 when a Mega-Armored Warboss with Nobz and some Kommados showed up, but Death Company and Terminators responded to them, wiping them off the board. End of Turn 6 had me controlling an objective, with plenty of support... and him only having a trukk on the table.
Another victory for the Sons of Sanguinius!
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
Played another game with my 1850 list today. Against the same Ork opponent I played last time, but he went back and retooled his list to combat mine. Testing my list against things that are purposefully built to kill it is what I have been after.
I won again... By the end of Turn 2, I had eliminated Doc and his boyz and positioned myself to take 2 of the 3 objectives during Turn 3. I took some casualties on Turns 3/4 when a Mega-Armored Warboss with Nobz and some Kommados showed up, but Death Company and Terminators responded to them, wiping them off the board. End of Turn 6 had me controlling an objective, with plenty of support... and him only having a trukk on the table.
Another victory for the Sons of Sanguinius!
Actually, it sounds like he did the wrong things entirely to combat your list.
Mega Armor's a pretty weak choice, honestly, because it hugely limits your options. Taking that and Nobz against another CC army is not tooling to fight them properly. I would have put you up against a Lootaz firing line and plenty of shooting to keep you out of CC, or at least your meatier units. Kommandoz are also really not going to stand up to blood angels at all.
What's good about heavy stubbers?
Are they assault weapons or something?
They're pretty much Heavy Bolter Lite
I'm guessing they'd be cheap as fuck. Depending on cost, I'd take a fire support squad or two of them for mowing down Orks
They're Heavy 3 Bolters.
Also: Salv is right, Fulgrim WAS really well done. I was very surprised. Battle for the Abyss was OK too, I liked 1. Loyalist Thousand Son and 2. the portrayal of the WordBearers ("It is written!") I'm Looking forward to Dan Abnett's book about the Thousand Sons in the fall.
Played another game with my 1850 list today. Against the same Ork opponent I played last time, but he went back and retooled his list to combat mine. Testing my list against things that are purposefully built to kill it is what I have been after.
I won again... By the end of Turn 2, I had eliminated Doc and his boyz and positioned myself to take 2 of the 3 objectives during Turn 3. I took some casualties on Turns 3/4 when a Mega-Armored Warboss with Nobz and some Kommados showed up, but Death Company and Terminators responded to them, wiping them off the board. End of Turn 6 had me controlling an objective, with plenty of support... and him only having a trukk on the table.
Another victory for the Sons of Sanguinius!
Actually, it sounds like he did the wrong things entirely to combat your list.
Mega Armor's a pretty weak choice, honestly, because it hugely limits your options. Taking that and Nobz against another CC army is not tooling to fight them properly. I would have put you up against a Lootaz firing line and plenty of shooting to keep you out of CC, or at least your meatier units. Kommandoz are also really not going to stand up to blood angels at all.
Well, there were also 13 Lootaz and the gentleman with the special kustom ray of death (forgive me, I don't remember his name or the weapons name :P)
Honestly though, I need a list to test what mine can do if faced with another solid list. I want a list that is made 100% to destroy my list, and I want to see how I can do against it.
I don't know the Ork codex from a list building perspective.. only from the perspective of being across the field from it and knowing what the units do :P
Ein, SJ, any other ork player, please build a list to destroy mine. I will pass it along to my friend and arrange a game.
My list is as such:
Dante
Corbulo
Honor Guard w/ Chapter Banner, Flamer, Power Weapon
Assault Terminators w/ Lightning Claws
Death Company w/ Jump Packs; 5 Marines
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
Yeah, as the stubber is literally a Heavy 3 bolter, there's no reason to return it as a standard squad weapon.
And now that I'm in the right thread, here're my lists:
4k 2 man team tournament this Sunday - it looks like I'll be the odd man out, so I've got two 2k armies I'll be fielding, SoB teamed up with IG. Here's each list:
SoB
HQ: Canoness
-Book of St. Lucius; Cloak of St. Aspira; Litanies of Faith; Frag Grenades; Brazier of Holy Fire (x1); Blessed Weapon
Fast Attack:
9 Seraphim Squad
-2 Twin Hand Flamers
Veteran Sister Superior
-Book of St. Lucius; Jump Pack; Purity Seals; Simulacrum Imperialis; Frag Grenade (Squad); Krak Grenade (Squad); Brazier
of Holy Fire (x1); Power Weapon (x1)
9 Dominion
-Flamer (x4)
Veteran Sister Superior
-Book of St. Lucius; Bolt Pistol (x1); Brazier of Holy Fire (x1)
Rhino
-Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers, Searxhlights
Elite:
7 Celestian Squad
-Frag Grenades; Flamer (x1); Heavy Flamer
Priest
-Brazier of Holy Fire (x1); Eviscerator; Power Armor
Veteran Sister Superior
-Frag Grenade (Squad); Brazier of Holy Fire (x1); Eviscerator
Inquisitor
-Storm Bolter; Psychic Hood;
Acolyte
-Bolter; Power Armour
3 Gun Servitor
-Heavy Bolter (x3)
2 Chirurgeon
Land Raider
Troops:
9 Battle Sisters Squad
-Flamer (x1); Heavy Flamer;
Rhino
-Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Extra Armor
Veteran Sister Superior
-Book of St. Lucius; Bolt Pistol (x1); Brazier of Holy Fire (x1)
9 Battle Sisters Squad
Flamer (x1); Heavy Flamer;
Veteran Sister Superior
-Book of St. Lucius; Bolt Pistol (x1); Brazier of Holy Fire (x1)
Rhino
-Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Extra Armor
Heavy Support: Exorcist
-Extra Armor
Heavy Support: Exorcist
-Extra Armor
Faith Points: 7
Total Roster Cost: 1999
The Cannoness is going to join up with the Celestians, and then they're all going to pile into the Inquisitor's Land Raider on turn 1. Then they're going to go tearing across the board, jumping out of the Raider, flaming the every loving shit out of anything that gets in their way, and then rip it to shreds in CC with Eviscerators and Blessed Weapons.
Seraphim and Rough Riders will be my mobile trouble-shooters. Everything else is just going to go zipping around raising havoc.
As for the IG, HQ, Armored Fist, and the HQ mortar squad are going to bunker down somewhere, maybe near the Basilisk, and rain distraction across the board. The unmounted Hardended Vets are going to take the Armored Fist's Chimera, and then both squads will ride the battle taxis to wherever they're needed.
Ratlings I'll try and plunk down somewhere secure, where hopefully they can also cover the artillery units from anyone sneaking up on them. The tanks are a bit over-optioned, but honestly I was starting to run out of models to put on the field.
I'm going to be rocking out with sixteen armored models on the field though, which makes that little part of my heart that runs odd promethium all warm and glowy. ^_^
What do you think?
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
Played another game with my 1850 list today. Against the same Ork opponent I played last time, but he went back and retooled his list to combat mine. Testing my list against things that are purposefully built to kill it is what I have been after.
I won again... By the end of Turn 2, I had eliminated Doc and his boyz and positioned myself to take 2 of the 3 objectives during Turn 3. I took some casualties on Turns 3/4 when a Mega-Armored Warboss with Nobz and some Kommados showed up, but Death Company and Terminators responded to them, wiping them off the board. End of Turn 6 had me controlling an objective, with plenty of support... and him only having a trukk on the table.
Another victory for the Sons of Sanguinius!
Actually, it sounds like he did the wrong things entirely to combat your list.
Mega Armor's a pretty weak choice, honestly, because it hugely limits your options. Taking that and Nobz against another CC army is not tooling to fight them properly. I would have put you up against a Lootaz firing line and plenty of shooting to keep you out of CC, or at least your meatier units. Kommandoz are also really not going to stand up to blood angels at all.
Well, there were also 13 Lootaz and the gentleman with the special kustom ray of death (forgive me, I don't remember his name or the weapons name :P)
Honestly though, I need a list to test what mine can do if faced with another solid list. I want a list that is made 100% to destroy my list, and I want to see how I can do against it.
I don't know the Ork codex from a list building perspective.. only from the perspective of being across the field from it and knowing what the units do :P
Ein, SJ, any other ork player, please build a list to destroy mine. I will pass it along to my friend and arrange a game.
My list is as such:
Dante
Corbulo
Honor Guard w/ Chapter Banner, Flamer, Power Weapon
Assault Terminators w/ Lightning Claws
Death Company w/ Jump Packs; 5 Marines
A Green Tide list with 180 or so boyz would steam roll you. You need more bodies man, not just for body count but for objective taking, trim some of the crazy special shit and get some more marines, also I don't think your list is valid force org wise- you need another troop choice.
A Green Tide list with 180 or so boyz would steam roll you. You need more bodies man, not just for body count but for objective taking, trim some of the crazy special shit and get some more marines, also I don't think your list is valid force org wise- you need another troop choice.
The list is based about all the "crazy special shit." If its a one trick pony, then thats what it is, but its been undefeated so far against a few different opponents. I want to play something that will steam roll me, thats what I'm looking for, so I can see how well it stands up to even the worst possible odds.
Also, its perfectly legal in the FOC. 1 HQ and 2 Troop minimum are there. Additional HQ Choice. 1 Elite Choice. Additional Troop Choice. 2 Heavy Support Choices. Death Company and Honor Guard do not count toward the FOC.
I play Blood Angels. Assault Squads are Troops.
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
still seems pretty redundant to me tbh.
I mean Hbolters are not exactly bank breaking weaponry as it is, right?
No, but I don't think you know how IG work. (with the codex we have now, anyway) We have to squeeze every last point out of things. Volume of fire > quality of fire.
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
A Green Tide list with 180 or so boyz would steam roll you. You need more bodies man, not just for body count but for objective taking, trim some of the crazy special shit and get some more marines, also I don't think your list is valid force org wise- you need another troop choice.
The list is based about all the "crazy special shit." If its a one trick pony, then thats what it is, but its been undefeated so far against a few different opponents. I want to play something that will steam roll me, thats what I'm looking for, so I can see how well it stands up to even the worst possible odds.
Also, its perfectly legal in the FOC. 1 HQ and 2 Troop minimum are there. Additional HQ Choice. 1 Elite Choice. 2 Heavy Support Choices. Death Company and Honor Guard do not count toward the FOC.
I only see one Tac Squad listed, can you take Assault Squads as Troops?
As for your list....hmmm. What's your point total? I might go to GW and DL the BA dex and crunch some numbers, I play Thousand Sons so I know alllll about running Elite Forces of small numbers.
As for a list that will give you trouble, yes an Ork horde with either an absolute shit-ton of Boyz or a list with plentiful Lootas (or both) shouldn't have too much trouble overwhelming your marines. Even if he loses 4 boyz to your 1 marine he's still going to come out on top. And that's not even considering any shooting casualties he might inflict.
Looks like you got the quote in before my edit. Yes, I can only take Tacticals or Assault Marines as troops. My Scouts are Elite. Thats an 1850 list there.
Essentially, when Dante, Corbs, and the Terminators hit something, they gain +1 attack, reroll hits, terms have reroll wound, Furious Charge for +1 Str/Ini, and all enemy models within 6" are WS/BS -1.
So, Dante has 7 power weapon attacks, the power weapon in the HG has 5 all with reroll hit. Then the Terminators have 25 power weapon attacks with reroll hits and wounds. And all are +1 Str and the enemy is -1 BS.
So, when I destroyed 20+ Orks a turn today, I was hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s. At Initiative 6 for Dante, and 5 for the Terminators and Marines.
And of course, none of this counting the Death Company who are also probably nearby because they're tethered to Corbulo so they don't rage...
If they get split up, obviously they lose their effectiveness, but that hasn't been a problem yet.
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
Looks like you got the quote in before my edit. Yes, I can only take Tacticals or Assault Marines as troops. My Scouts are Elite. Thats an 1850 list there.
Essentially, when Dante, Corbs, and the Terminators hit something, they gain +1 attack, reroll hits, terms have reroll wound, Furious Charge for +1 Str/Ini, and all enemy models within 6" are WS/BS -1.
So, Dante has 7 power weapon attacks, the power weapon in the HG has 5 all with reroll hit. Then the Terminators have 25 power weapon attacks with reroll hits and wounds. And all are +1 Str and the enemy is -1 BS.
So, when I destroyed 20+ Orks a turn today, I was hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s. At Initiative 6 for Dante, and 5 for the Terminators and Marines.
And of course, none of this counting the Death Company who are also probably nearby because they're tethered to Corbulo so they don't rage...
If they get split up, obviously they lose their effectiveness, but that hasn't been a problem yet.
OK so you have plentiful troops, that's good. Is this a take all comers list or just for Orks? Because if it's just Orks, high initiative isn't as much as a factor. If the Tac Marines are static, you might opt to trade up for sniper rifle scouts. If you can lower the Ork mobz below 10 you can pin them with the rifles if you're lucky.
They're usually static because I get them onto an objective, or at least close to one and let the missile have an open field of view for firing at light armor. I absolutely love sniper scouts, but they're not troops in my dex, and I think the tacs fill a good role for holding points behind the forward assault force.
It's an all comers list... or at least, I'm treating it that way. I took out a mechanized marine army with 7 vehicles in it, and that player has been playing for many, many years, so I felt good about that win.
I've found that if the mob is reduced below 10, they're probably done for anyway, and I'm more than likely in close combat with them to do that, so I won't be able to follow up with any sniper fire
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
As for the IG, HQ, Armored Fist, and the HQ mortar squad are going to bunker down somewhere, maybe near the Basilisk, and rain distraction across the board. The unmounted Hardended Vets are going to take the Armored Fist's Chimera, and then both squads will ride the battle taxis to wherever they're needed.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your excellent strategy is slightly flawed. IG Chimeras can only be used by the squad they are purchased for. No other units may ever use them. GW points it out in the 5th edition FAQ,
Q. My Imperial Guard or Black Templar Codex says that dedicated transports can only be used by the unit they’ve been bought for. Is that overruled by the new way dedicated transports work in 5th Edition?
A. No, if a Codex clearly says that dedicated transports can only be used during the game by the unit that bought them, that overrules the general rule in the rulebook, as normal. Obviously some armies are stricter than others about transport regulations!
So fucking stupid but there you go. I cried a little inside when I first read it. (Mainly because the only time I actually used that rule won me a game by allowing Colonel Penny to borrow the Grenadier's ride to zip across the field and counter-charge some eldar into oblivion. The next day they released the FAQ.)D:
Remember kids, the Imperial Guard is more strict about which of the countless squads uses which of the millions of Chimeras than every space marine chapter in existence, minus one, is about who rides in what rhino.
Yeah, as the stubber is literally a Heavy 3 bolter, there's no reason to return it as a standard squad weapon.
Yes, if you compare it to the other heavy weapons available to an IG infantry squad, the stubber is a waste, however, I wasn't hoping to see it as a heavy option.
If Heavy Stubbers and Sniper Rifles aren't available to IG squads as special weapons...
Compared to the available special weapons, a heavy stubber is actually an excellent fit. Unlike the other specials, a heavy stubber or a sniper rifle complements the lasgun nicely. As things stand, the best fit for IG squads is the plasma rifle, which is unreliable and honestly an expensive waste against horde armies. Next best is the grenade launcher, but only because it's plasma gun lite. melta guns and flamers work at cross purposes to an infantry squad's only strength, which is screaming 'not the face!'
That, and I like the look of the stubber. It seems real to me, and from a fluff perspective I think it would be far more common than something like a plasma gun or a melta.
As for sniper rifles, they should never have been a heavy option for light infantry, but as a special option they would have been awesome. Still would be, too.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Yeah, as the stubber is literally a Heavy 3 bolter, there's no reason to return it as a standard squad weapon.
Yes, if you compare it to the other heavy weapons available to an IG infantry squad, the stubber is a waste, however, I wasn't hoping to see it as a heavy option.
If Heavy Stubbers and Sniper Rifles aren't available to IG squads as special weapons...
Compared to the available special weapons, a heavy stubber is actually an excellent fit. Unlike the other specials, a heavy stubber or a sniper rifle complements the lasgun nicely. As things stand, the best fit for IG squads is the plasma rifle, which is unreliable and honestly an expensive waste against horde armies. Next best is the grenade launcher, but only because it's plasma gun lite. melta guns and flamers work at cross purposes to an infantry squad's only strength, which is screaming 'not the face!'
That, and I like the look of the stubber. It seems real to me, and from a fluff perspective I think it would be far more common than something like a plasma gun or a melta.
As for sniper rifles, they should never have been a heavy option for light infantry, but as a special option they would have been awesome. Still would be, too.
It would actually be more common than a heavy bolter even since it uses normal non-rocket propelled non-explosive bullets.
Also I could then have Tanith squads with Sniper rifles and .30s or flamers.
They're usually static because I get them onto an objective, or at least close to one and let the missile have an open field of view for firing at light armor. I absolutely love sniper scouts, but they're not troops in my dex, and I think the tacs fill a good role for holding points behind the forward assault force.
It's an all comers list... or at least, I'm treating it that way. I took out a mechanized marine army with 7 vehicles in it, and that player has been playing for many, many years, so I felt good about that win.
I've found that if the mob is reduced below 10, they're probably done for anyway, and I'm more than likely in close combat with them to do that, so I won't be able to follow up with any sniper fire
OK. Hmm. Would you consider splitting the 10 man squad into 2 combat squads of the sarge with a fist, a squadie with a flamer, put them in a Rhino. The other 5 man team has a guy with an RL, and you can sit them on an objective.
Sucks about the Scouts being elites. they'll likely give you them as troops when you get a proper codex.
I usually do combat squad them, yes. No way to fit them in a rhino without sacrificing the power fists in the Assault Squads, which I'm not willing to do. I've tried.
I have a proper codex Just because its in a pdf file doesn't mean its not proper. Its the trade off for having Assault Marines as troops and for the scouts retaining BS4.
I do believe GW has gone so far as to officially state the BA dex will never be in print form again. It's cool though, my girlfriend took mine to Staples and had it printed in full color and bound :P
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
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UtsanomikoBros before DoesRollin' in the thlayRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
Codex Dark Angels also has Scout squads as elites. Much of BA's list was derived from this recent Codex.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Codex Dark Angels also has Scout squads as elites. Much of BA's list was derived from this recent Codex.
But not gay like the DA stuff.
(I get to say this because I have a full DA battle company for some reason I've yet to figure out... I like green I guess.)
When I first started reading the 40k threads in this forum, I referred to you as "that guy with the amazing DA army"
Months later I found that through your posts that you don't even play the army, and I was a bit sad.
But then you just became "that guy with the amazing IG army" so its all good :P
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
A Green Tide list with 180 or so boyz would steam roll you. You need more bodies man, not just for body count but for objective taking, trim some of the crazy special shit and get some more marines, also I don't think your list is valid force org wise- you need another troop choice.
The list is based about all the "crazy special shit." If its a one trick pony, then thats what it is, but its been undefeated so far against a few different opponents. I want to play something that will steam roll me, thats what I'm looking for, so I can see how well it stands up to even the worst possible odds.
Also, its perfectly legal in the FOC. 1 HQ and 2 Troop minimum are there. Additional HQ Choice. 1 Elite Choice. 2 Heavy Support Choices. Death Company and Honor Guard do not count toward the FOC.
I only see one Tac Squad listed, can you take Assault Squads as Troops?
As for your list....hmmm. What's your point total? I might go to GW and DL the BA dex and crunch some numbers, I play Thousand Sons so I know alllll about running Elite Forces of small numbers.
As for a list that will give you trouble, yes an Ork horde with either an absolute shit-ton of Boyz or a list with plentiful Lootas (or both) shouldn't have too much trouble overwhelming your marines. Even if he loses 4 boyz to your 1 marine he's still going to come out on top. And that's not even considering any shooting casualties he might inflict.
Seriously, and Shoota Boyz will be able to plug out enough fire to seriously thin you out before you even get to assault. He could take an absurd number of those and just wash you off the board in dice.
Ein on
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Codex Dark Angels also has Scout squads as elites. Much of BA's list was derived from this recent Codex.
But not gay like the DA stuff.
(I get to say this because I have a full DA battle company for some reason I've yet to figure out... I like green I guess.)
When I first started reading the 40k threads in this forum, I referred to you as "that guy with the amazing DA army"
Months later I found that through your posts that you don't even play the army, and I was a bit sad.
But then you just became "that guy with the amazing IG army" so its all good :P
:^:
I only don't play them because when I was finishes the painting I started going to SJ's store where it seems every third person has a DA army and only a very few have IG. I started using the IG there and have yet to get bored playing them.
Still, I suppose my DA are fairly unique as they are a battle company and not deathwing or ravenwing or anything fruity like that.
PAX seems so very far to go just to play with little wargaming mans for a day or two, and really I am not into video games enough to enjoy most of the stuff there, I think.
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To the person who was asking about other 40k forums, I visit Bell of Lost Souls and Eternity of War. I also go to Dakkadakka and warseer for their modelling blogs, but I always regret reading replies to anything.
I'm fairly certain that the flier rule allows them to fire as if they are stationary. As for armaments I got the default which is lascannons and rocket pods. Anything else I'm going to scratch build and magnetize.
Damn I need to get IA: Apoc
*edit* Looking at IA:1 you can get two sets of two multiple rocket pods for +100. However this allows you to fire 8 strength 4, ap 6 blast templates a turn. Plus the heavy bolter and that's a lot of dead horde armies.
Other than the words "plastic greatcoat regiment", a sprue with proper special weapons options is something I'm hoping for.
If you want to build lists to win games without consideration of how the other guy feels about your list, Dakka is the place to go. Unfortunately, they also tend to attract a lot of assholes.
This is the first time ive ever made a list and so far I'm finding it immensely daunting. Eldar by the way. I figured I'd go with what I see being run and what I've read as effective and so far ive got wrirten down.
Farseer with doom and spear
10 dire avengers with exarch dual cats and bladestorm
these guys gonna go in a serpent with spirit stones I figure. Though I dunno what weapons?
10 more avengers with exarch shimmershield/powerweapon and defend
footsloggers
and finally 5 rangers/pathfinders.
awesome models!
Now I'm looking to my heavy support and elites options. Where there is FAR too much goodness to possibly pick from.
...Anyways.
I think I may have asked this in a earlier incarnation of this thread, but I don't think it was answered. I found this: Imperial Guard High Commanders, and I was curious about it's provenance. The page gives the WD#, but I'm not familiar with the US numbering system, so I have no idea how old it is. It's clearly 4th ed, but other than that I'm clueless. Has anyone played with these rules? I also heard that WD published some rules for alternate IG abhumans -- things like pseudo beastmen an' stuff. Does anyone know where I might find them?
Most excellent, thanks!
I have the High Commanders issue lying around somewhere. I got it a couple of years ago, for what that's worth. The rules are nifty and flavorful. I forget where the extra IG rules came from though.
Then again I'm also hoping that they seperate the tank cannons into an HE (say str4ap6 5"blast) and an roll to-hit AT shell (str8ap3ordnance), kind of like a diet coke version of hammerhead. It would make the basic LR cheaper, while also giving a reason to take executioners. This is probably a bad idea.
edit: oh, and mortars should be able to fire smoke like in FoW. Hit an enemy unit with smoke and force them to use night fighting rules during their next shooting phase.
more flamers
Give me heavy flamers in certain squads, give me Russes with twin-linked Inferno Cannon turrets, give me more fire
Running 4 flamers in each of my command squads has given me an unhealthy pyromania
I won again... By the end of Turn 2, I had eliminated Doc and his boyz and positioned myself to take 2 of the 3 objectives during Turn 3. I took some casualties on Turns 3/4 when a Mega-Armored Warboss with Nobz and some Kommados showed up, but Death Company and Terminators responded to them, wiping them off the board. End of Turn 6 had me controlling an objective, with plenty of support... and him only having a trukk on the table.
Another victory for the Sons of Sanguinius!
Are they assault weapons or something?
Actually, it sounds like he did the wrong things entirely to combat your list.
Mega Armor's a pretty weak choice, honestly, because it hugely limits your options. Taking that and Nobz against another CC army is not tooling to fight them properly. I would have put you up against a Lootaz firing line and plenty of shooting to keep you out of CC, or at least your meatier units. Kommandoz are also really not going to stand up to blood angels at all.
They're pretty much Heavy Bolter Lite
I'm guessing they'd be cheap as fuck. Depending on cost, I'd take a fire support squad or two of them for mowing down Orks
They're Heavy 3 Bolters.
Also: Salv is right, Fulgrim WAS really well done. I was very surprised. Battle for the Abyss was OK too, I liked 1. Loyalist Thousand Son and 2. the portrayal of the WordBearers ("It is written!") I'm Looking forward to Dan Abnett's book about the Thousand Sons in the fall.
I mean Hbolters are not exactly bank breaking weaponry as it is, right?
Well, there were also 13 Lootaz and the gentleman with the special kustom ray of death (forgive me, I don't remember his name or the weapons name :P)
Honestly though, I need a list to test what mine can do if faced with another solid list. I want a list that is made 100% to destroy my list, and I want to see how I can do against it.
I don't know the Ork codex from a list building perspective.. only from the perspective of being across the field from it and knowing what the units do :P
Ein, SJ, any other ork player, please build a list to destroy mine. I will pass it along to my friend and arrange a game.
My list is as such:
Dante
Corbulo
Honor Guard w/ Chapter Banner, Flamer, Power Weapon
Assault Terminators w/ Lightning Claws
Death Company w/ Jump Packs; 5 Marines
Assault Squad w/ PF
Assault Squad w/ PF
Tactical Squad w/ Flamer, Missile
Baal Predator
Land Raider Crusader
And now that I'm in the right thread, here're my lists:
4k 2 man team tournament this Sunday - it looks like I'll be the odd man out, so I've got two 2k armies I'll be fielding, SoB teamed up with IG. Here's each list:
SoB
-Book of St. Lucius; Cloak of St. Aspira; Litanies of Faith; Frag Grenades; Brazier of Holy Fire (x1); Blessed Weapon
Fast Attack:
9 Seraphim Squad
-2 Twin Hand Flamers
Veteran Sister Superior
-Book of St. Lucius; Jump Pack; Purity Seals; Simulacrum Imperialis; Frag Grenade (Squad); Krak Grenade (Squad); Brazier
of Holy Fire (x1); Power Weapon (x1)
9 Dominion
-Flamer (x4)
Veteran Sister Superior
-Book of St. Lucius; Bolt Pistol (x1); Brazier of Holy Fire (x1)
Rhino
-Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers, Searxhlights
Elite:
7 Celestian Squad
-Frag Grenades; Flamer (x1); Heavy Flamer
Priest
-Brazier of Holy Fire (x1); Eviscerator; Power Armor
Veteran Sister Superior
-Frag Grenade (Squad); Brazier of Holy Fire (x1); Eviscerator
Inquisitor
-Storm Bolter; Psychic Hood;
Acolyte
-Bolter; Power Armour
3 Gun Servitor
-Heavy Bolter (x3)
2 Chirurgeon
Land Raider
Troops:
9 Battle Sisters Squad
-Flamer (x1); Heavy Flamer;
Rhino
-Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Extra Armor
Veteran Sister Superior
-Book of St. Lucius; Bolt Pistol (x1); Brazier of Holy Fire (x1)
9 Battle Sisters Squad
Flamer (x1); Heavy Flamer;
Veteran Sister Superior
-Book of St. Lucius; Bolt Pistol (x1); Brazier of Holy Fire (x1)
Rhino
-Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Extra Armor
Heavy Support: Exorcist
-Extra Armor
Heavy Support: Exorcist
-Extra Armor
Faith Points: 7
Total Roster Cost: 1999
Seraphim and Rough Riders will be my mobile trouble-shooters. Everything else is just going to go zipping around raising havoc.
Heroic Senior Officer
-Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol
4 Guardsmen @ [10] Pts
-Flamer x2; Mortar
6 Mortar Squad @ [80] Pts
-Mortar (x3)
3 Sentinel
-Lascannon
Troops:
Armored Fist
9 Armoured Fist
-Grenade Launcher; Mortar
Sergeant
-Laspistol & CCW
Chimera
-Pintle Heavy Stubber; Multilaser; Hull Heavy Bolter; Extra Armor
Infantry Platoon
1 Junior Officer
-Iron Discipline; Close Combat Weapon; Plasma Pistol
4 Guardsmen
-Plasmagun (x4);
Chimera
-Pintle Heavy Stubber; Multilaser; Hull Heavy Bolter; Extra Armor
9 Infantry Squad
-Close Order Drill; Grenade Launcher; Lascannon
Sergeant
-Laspistol & CCW
9 Infantry Squad
-Close Order Drill; Grenade Launcher; Lascannon
Sergeant
-Laspistol & CCW
Fast:
Hellhound
-Pintle Heavy Stubber;
9 Rough Rider Squad
-Hunting Lance
Veteran Sergeant
-Hunting Lance
Elite:
10 Ratlings
Hardened Veterans
6 Hardened Veterans
-Plasmagun (x3)
-Veteran Sergeant
-Close Combat Weapon; Plasma Pistol
6 Hardened Veterans
Meltagun (x3);
-Veteran Sergeant
-Bolt Pistol; CCW
Chimera
-Pintle Heavy Stubber; Multilaser; Hull Heavy Bolter
Heavy Support:
Basilis
-Hull Heavy Bolter
Leman Russ Battle Tank
-Extra Armour; Pintle Heavy Stubber; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter; Sponson Heavy Bolter
Leman Russ Demolisher
-Extra Armour; Hull Lascannon; Sponson Plasma Cannon
Total Roster Cost: 2000
Ratlings I'll try and plunk down somewhere secure, where hopefully they can also cover the artillery units from anyone sneaking up on them. The tanks are a bit over-optioned, but honestly I was starting to run out of models to put on the field.
I'm going to be rocking out with sixteen armored models on the field though, which makes that little part of my heart that runs odd promethium all warm and glowy. ^_^
What do you think?
A Green Tide list with 180 or so boyz would steam roll you. You need more bodies man, not just for body count but for objective taking, trim some of the crazy special shit and get some more marines, also I don't think your list is valid force org wise- you need another troop choice.
The list is based about all the "crazy special shit." If its a one trick pony, then thats what it is, but its been undefeated so far against a few different opponents. I want to play something that will steam roll me, thats what I'm looking for, so I can see how well it stands up to even the worst possible odds.
Also, its perfectly legal in the FOC. 1 HQ and 2 Troop minimum are there. Additional HQ Choice. 1 Elite Choice. Additional Troop Choice. 2 Heavy Support Choices. Death Company and Honor Guard do not count toward the FOC.
I play Blood Angels. Assault Squads are Troops.
No, but I don't think you know how IG work. (with the codex we have now, anyway) We have to squeeze every last point out of things. Volume of fire > quality of fire.
I only see one Tac Squad listed, can you take Assault Squads as Troops?
As for your list....hmmm. What's your point total? I might go to GW and DL the BA dex and crunch some numbers, I play Thousand Sons so I know alllll about running Elite Forces of small numbers.
As for a list that will give you trouble, yes an Ork horde with either an absolute shit-ton of Boyz or a list with plentiful Lootas (or both) shouldn't have too much trouble overwhelming your marines. Even if he loses 4 boyz to your 1 marine he's still going to come out on top. And that's not even considering any shooting casualties he might inflict.
Essentially, when Dante, Corbs, and the Terminators hit something, they gain +1 attack, reroll hits, terms have reroll wound, Furious Charge for +1 Str/Ini, and all enemy models within 6" are WS/BS -1.
So, Dante has 7 power weapon attacks, the power weapon in the HG has 5 all with reroll hit. Then the Terminators have 25 power weapon attacks with reroll hits and wounds. And all are +1 Str and the enemy is -1 BS.
So, when I destroyed 20+ Orks a turn today, I was hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s. At Initiative 6 for Dante, and 5 for the Terminators and Marines.
And of course, none of this counting the Death Company who are also probably nearby because they're tethered to Corbulo so they don't rage...
If they get split up, obviously they lose their effectiveness, but that hasn't been a problem yet.
OK so you have plentiful troops, that's good. Is this a take all comers list or just for Orks? Because if it's just Orks, high initiative isn't as much as a factor. If the Tac Marines are static, you might opt to trade up for sniper rifle scouts. If you can lower the Ork mobz below 10 you can pin them with the rifles if you're lucky.
EDIT:
It's an all comers list... or at least, I'm treating it that way. I took out a mechanized marine army with 7 vehicles in it, and that player has been playing for many, many years, so I felt good about that win.
I've found that if the mob is reduced below 10, they're probably done for anyway, and I'm more than likely in close combat with them to do that, so I won't be able to follow up with any sniper fire
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your excellent strategy is slightly flawed. IG Chimeras can only be used by the squad they are purchased for. No other units may ever use them. GW points it out in the 5th edition FAQ,
So fucking stupid but there you go. I cried a little inside when I first read it. (Mainly because the only time I actually used that rule won me a game by allowing Colonel Penny to borrow the Grenadier's ride to zip across the field and counter-charge some eldar into oblivion. The next day they released the FAQ.)D:
Remember kids, the Imperial Guard is more strict about which of the countless squads uses which of the millions of Chimeras than every space marine chapter in existence, minus one, is about who rides in what rhino.
Yes, if you compare it to the other heavy weapons available to an IG infantry squad, the stubber is a waste, however, I wasn't hoping to see it as a heavy option.
Compared to the available special weapons, a heavy stubber is actually an excellent fit. Unlike the other specials, a heavy stubber or a sniper rifle complements the lasgun nicely. As things stand, the best fit for IG squads is the plasma rifle, which is unreliable and honestly an expensive waste against horde armies. Next best is the grenade launcher, but only because it's plasma gun lite. melta guns and flamers work at cross purposes to an infantry squad's only strength, which is screaming 'not the face!'
That, and I like the look of the stubber. It seems real to me, and from a fluff perspective I think it would be far more common than something like a plasma gun or a melta.
As for sniper rifles, they should never have been a heavy option for light infantry, but as a special option they would have been awesome. Still would be, too.
It would actually be more common than a heavy bolter even since it uses normal non-rocket propelled non-explosive bullets.
Also I could then have Tanith squads with Sniper rifles and .30s or flamers.
OK. Hmm. Would you consider splitting the 10 man squad into 2 combat squads of the sarge with a fist, a squadie with a flamer, put them in a Rhino. The other 5 man team has a guy with an RL, and you can sit them on an objective.
Sucks about the Scouts being elites. they'll likely give you them as troops when you get a proper codex.
I have a proper codex
I do believe GW has gone so far as to officially state the BA dex will never be in print form again. It's cool though, my girlfriend took mine to Staples and had it printed in full color and bound :P
But not gay like the DA stuff.
(I get to say this because I have a full DA battle company for some reason I've yet to figure out... I like green I guess.)
When I first started reading the 40k threads in this forum, I referred to you as "that guy with the amazing DA army"
Months later I found that through your posts that you don't even play the army, and I was a bit sad.
But then you just became "that guy with the amazing IG army" so its all good :P
Seriously, and Shoota Boyz will be able to plug out enough fire to seriously thin you out before you even get to assault. He could take an absurd number of those and just wash you off the board in dice.
:^:
I only don't play them because when I was finishes the painting I started going to SJ's store where it seems every third person has a DA army and only a very few have IG. I started using the IG there and have yet to get bored playing them.
Still, I suppose my DA are fairly unique as they are a battle company and not deathwing or ravenwing or anything fruity like that.
PAX seems so very far to go just to play with little wargaming mans for a day or two, and really I am not into video games enough to enjoy most of the stuff there, I think.