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Spain/France Trip: What's good?
SkyGheNe
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My cousin is getting married and so a few of us are going to spain to attend the wedding and then checking out france afterwards. My father is from spain and they are going to take myself and my girlfriend around during week 2, but week 1 and a bit of france is up for grabs as far as what we are able to do.
Week 1: Madrid
Week 2: Madrid/Wedding/Coastal regions
Week 3: France
I was wondering if anyone had any things they absolutely loved in these regions. I personally really enjoy areas where I can kind of roam, talk to people, and see natural landscape. My favorite time was traveling to Arizona and walking around the parks freely looking for animals, or in Mexico talking to the natives there and getting to know the culture, but I don't know what regions lend themselves to this experience in contrast to the typical "Look! I'm standing in front of the Eiffel Tower!" My girlfriend also likes to dance, and I think dance clubs are pretty popular in Spain, but I'm looking for cheap and fun things to do, but am willing to spend money for an experience.
Any advice in regards to how to dress, what to see, or what to avoid would be appreciated. Thanks.
*edit* As for avoiding trouble...I knew my way around Mexico a little better than these places. Is the best tactic just to throw my wallet at someone if I get approached? Seemed to work in other areas.
Week 1: Madrid
Week 2: Madrid/Wedding/Coastal regions
Week 3: France
I was wondering if anyone had any things they absolutely loved in these regions. I personally really enjoy areas where I can kind of roam, talk to people, and see natural landscape. My favorite time was traveling to Arizona and walking around the parks freely looking for animals, or in Mexico talking to the natives there and getting to know the culture, but I don't know what regions lend themselves to this experience in contrast to the typical "Look! I'm standing in front of the Eiffel Tower!" My girlfriend also likes to dance, and I think dance clubs are pretty popular in Spain, but I'm looking for cheap and fun things to do, but am willing to spend money for an experience.
Any advice in regards to how to dress, what to see, or what to avoid would be appreciated. Thanks.
*edit* As for avoiding trouble...I knew my way around Mexico a little better than these places. Is the best tactic just to throw my wallet at someone if I get approached? Seemed to work in other areas.
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I'll leave it to the Europeans to tell you what's "in" fashion-wise right now, but what makes Americans stand out more than anything are tennis-shoes/sandals, and bluejeans. If you want to blend in, leave the Nikes and Levis at home. The other give-away tends to be the hair, but I do not advise getting a hideous Euro-mullet.
Re: streetcrime, mugging isn't really quite the thing on continental Europe. Pick-pocketing is more common, and my personal feeling is that if you catch someone trying to pick your pocket, it's perfectly acceptable to curb-stomp him. That said, I'm quite a large man so people tend to leave me alone. Just don't make yourself a conspicuous tourist (everyone knows they're likely to be carrying cash or travelers checks), tell your girlfriend to avoid carrying a purse, particularly one with thin straps or a strap that can't be looped across your shoulder, and keep your passport and some cash as close to your skin as possible.
In Spain, I loved visiting La Alhambra in Granada. I don't know how close you'll be...but my only other experience was in Barcelona, which was a lot of fun.
Definitely enjoy all the good food in both countries, and the French were a LOT kinder than any american I've heard has ever given them credit for. I never felt uncomfortable there at all.
I really liked Paris, but I didn't stay there too long -- just walked around a lot and enjoyed the city. Just make sure you have exact change, 'cause they hate it when you don't.
Edit: Oddly, people I traveled with either loved Paris or hated it. I am a woman, and all the other women seemed to like it, but all the men seemed to be indifferent or disliked it. I think the treatment of american men vs. american women is pretty different, at least in Paris itself.
Provence (the south of france) is beautiful and it's definitely worth exploring the small towns, vineyards, and hidden locations of the area. The parents of one of my good friends have a house in the region and staying with them was one of the best times of my life.
That being said.
I don't know how one could not like Paris. It is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. The museums are some of the best in the world. The restaurants are amazing. There are always all kinds of things going on in the city. Hell, the architechture itself is so beautiful and the streets so lively, one can easily occupy their time just wandering the streets, and that's coming from a jaded New Yorker.
Paris is a great place to hang out. Obviously it's quite expensive, it's a capital, they are all quite expensive but a vast majority of the things which are associated with France are found in or near Paris.
As far as how to dress, I'd avoid the typical ultra-casual mode of dress americans often have when vacationing, mainly cause I think it's tacky. You get treated a bit better when you don't dress like a slob. Not too nice (unless you like that), just button down shirts or polos with real trousers, multiple thin layers if the weather dictates.
Huh?
Um, wearing Levis and Nike will allow you to blend in with just about any European country, Eastern included.
The trick to not standing out as blatantly American is to not strut around like you own the country, yelling at people because circumstances outside of their control have caused you a minor inconvenience. That's the big give away.
Also, Paris is brilliant. Really, really, brilliant. Sure the countryside is nice as well although I'm not sure what you'd do there unless you were on a twinning exchange. Visit some battlefields and maybe a chocolate factory, I guess.
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All of what you posted sounds awesome.
Also, don't forget the Pompidou.
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1) Cassis -- Smallish town on the south coast, great hiking and rock climbing within walking distance of town. Not too expensive in the low season. Accessible by train.
2) Chamonix -- If you're young and outdoorsy, there's pretty much no better place to explore in the French Alps. Sits at the base of Mont Blanc. Major hiking, mountain biking, and parasailing mecca. Of course, it's packed with tourists during ski season, but pretty awesome in the low season. Also accessible by train.
There are loads of great places in Provence that meet your criteria, but a lot of them depend on having a car. What time of year will you be going, and do you expect to have wheels?
Barcelona for all the fab architecture
Vittoria - inland capital of Basque region - beautiful
Bilbao for tapas - bar hopping on a Friday night is brill fun
France:
Normandy for the WW2 history - Allied landing beaches, Ste Mere Eglise is a very pretty little town, Bayeux for the Tapestry, Mont St Michel just cos its amazing.
Brittany - amazing scenery, very friendly people if you try to speak French, no matter how badly. Le Cote Sauvage - great surfing, beautiful beaches (its one the south coast of Brittany, on a peninsula)
Vendee for the beaches - but avoid the beach front cafes, unless you have money to burn.
The French will be rude to you if you act like a tourist and expect them to speak English to you. They will love you, correct your crappy French grammar and pronunciation, but be thrilled that you're trying to speak French, even if all you can say is "Bonjour, comment allez-vous?".
I love France, would live in Brittany if I could, but want to stay married to Lewie's dad, and he doesn't want to live there. I get by with "O" level French, mostly forgotten, but have yet to meet a French person who didn't appreciate I was trying to talk to them. They are a bit restrained, though, and like you to be polite rather than over-friendly ime. My Spanish is even worse, but again, people seem to appreciate the effort, even if I'm getting it wrong.
Have fun!
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The one bad thing I found about Paris was the beggars. Unlike say London, they actively try and hustle you, or at least they did to me and my friends. So it pays to be a little careful when talking to random people in and around public transport/famous tourist spots. If someone walks up to you and demands whether or not you speak English - ignore them unless they look official or generous.
So far as places to go in Paris I would say I enjoyed Les Invalides - which is basically a bunch of military museums and the like next to a big park in the middle of the city. Napoleon's Tomb is in the complex and is a rather surreal but cool experience.
Thank you for all the awesome suggestions in this thread - you guys are a huge help...I love this forum.
The wedding is on the 17th. My parents are flying on probably on the 16th and my girlfriend and I were thinking about going a week ahead of time to stay in Madrid starting on the 9th. We will not have a car for that first week, but once my parents arrive, we will have a rental to share with them to go where we want. My dad grew up in spain and knows some of the attractions that typically attract people, but he's a bit paranoid about travel.
So while in spain we don't have wheels, but once my rents come over it's all fair game. They're asking for suggestions as to what we want to see and not knowing a whole lot about the countries, I couldn't give much, but after all the suggestions it looks like that I'll have a long and healthy list to give them.
Thanks again guys. If you have any more experiences/suggestions, feel free to post. I'm writing all of this down.
Since it's winter and you've got wheels, consider staying in Arles (great Roman ruins) and visiting the Carmargue (great walking and bird watching), then heading across the Rhone, past Marseilles, and staying in Cassis to hike the calanques. Then either head east along the coast if you're enjoying the warm weather and salt air, or head inland to Provence if you want to do some more hiking. All of that is in the south of France (i.e., close to Spain), which means you won't spend your whole week in the car. Sure, you won't see most of the country, but you won't see most of the country in a week, anyway. Go to a couple of good places and take your time in them.
In my experiences in France, every time I even uttered a simple "Parlez vous anglais?" I was met with smiles and subsequently spoken to in English. A friend and I were also approached by a couple of guys our age who taught us quite a lot of basic french (we both studied spanish in school so we just knew a phrase or two). The French all seem to understand quite a lot of English, so don't worry about a language barrier.
On the other hand, I know quite a lot of spanish, but my Spain accented spanish is not that great (I grew up in CA, and as a result I have a pronounced Central American accent when speaking the language), and as a result, many people would refuse to talk to me. No joke. Even though they knew what I was saying, it was like they were offended by my accent. There was the occasional Mexican or Cuban who would enthusiastically speak to me, but especially in larger cities like Barcelona (because of the main language being Catalan) be prepared for weird looks when you try to speak the language.
Also, it seemed to be my experience that many people in Spain either refused to speak English or didn't speak it at all, so there was a more significant language barrier there than in France, which I didn't expect.
Either way, people will be rude sometimes regardless of how hard you try, but trying is much more polite than just being like "I AM AN AMERICAN DAMMIT SHOW ME WHERE THE SHITTER IS"
Yes, my father has warned me of how spaniards may react to those who have an accent and how the country, in general, is far less of a tourist destination because of the lack of english speakers. My mother also described it as "not as friendly as france." Guess I'll find out for myself once I get there.
If yo go coast hopping in spain:
If you can get down to Costa Del Sol, check out Malaga area and head on down to Gibraltar.
You'll find a Ton of english speaking folks down there and the beaches are unlike anything I have ever seen. I cant speak for Madrid other than the airport
Oh, and like another poster said, dress nicely and people wont assume your a loud american tourist.
Costa is where my cousin is getting married oddly enough.
I've never heard something this postive about the Costa Del Sol. Essentially it's a piece of Spain that we accidentally fucking ruined with the invention of the package holiday.
Living in Paris, so yeah i'm kinda going to support going there. Well to be honest, the Louvre alone will justify the trip, since there's so many things to see, you'd probably need 5 or 6 visits to get a decent picture of what's inside.
Then there's the Musée d'Orsay, the Pantheon, Notre Dame, a billion of churches to visit, le Musee d'histoire naturelle ( Museum of natural history ), err.. the list goes on and on and on...
Oh and if that's your thing , of course all the very classy nude shows like The Moulin Rouge, Les Folies Bergères etc.. pricey, but worth it imho!
Let's not forget the restaurants , you could probably fill a phonebook with all the good ones avaiables...
Anyway, have a nice trip
Although I guess it helps that I'm a lot more interested in art from the impressionists onwards and the bulk of the Louvre is Romantic and earlier.
Southern France is very nice, especially the dordogne region. A very nice market in Sarlat, walled town in Carcasonne and the prehistoric caves in Lasceux.
That said northern France is very nice. If you go, make sure not to miss Mont Sant Michel (cathedral on a massive granite outcrop in the sea) and the Bayeux tapestry.
Our Queue at the Louvre was MAYBE 10 minutes. I think we got there around 10AM on a.. Wednesday, midweek sometime anyway.
I did one of those guided city tours, and it was OK, but I couldn't stop anywhere on the trip that wasn't on the agenda, alas I didn't get to go to the lingerie store next to the Moulin Rouge. Make sure that you bring a map so that you can mark places you want to go back to. I didn't do this and I am very directionally challenged, so I never did find my way around the city.
If you have the opportunity go to a street market, they are SO neat and fun, and most of the people will be less snotty too.
As a side comment, it's too bad you aren't going to Italy instead of Spain, those people were ridiculously friendly... of course I was a 16 year old girl with blond hair and blue eyes... but still! Some Italians are blond >.>
This is only surprising to me because we are staying in spain for free, and our stay at hotels in france is done through points, so living is more or less covered for nothing.
Is this normal or are they just doing it wrong? I should probably do my own booking.
Wow, I didnt get that at all when I was there.
Its a tourist spot?
No wonder the French dislike Americans! Tipping in dollars anywhere in Europe would probably be considered exceedingly patronising. Never do this!
You must be an asshole, dude. The spanish were pretty much universally inviting and happy to try their english out with me.
OP: If you can get to the south, I recommend seeing the Alhambra if you have time. It's really cool.
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-sneakers. it seems like 90% of you people wear them abroad. practically no adults i know wear sneakers except for sporting.
-hip packs. just don't.
-sweatshorts and white socks pulled all the way up.
-your tshirts are enormous.
i don't mean to sound anti-american, shallow or over-generalising or anyting, but i see a lot of tourists and that's what i see.
Haha! Really! That's what you do in countries where their local currency blows. Like Egypt or Cuba. Not countries where the local currency is stronger than the USD.
I liked the Louvre, but personally, Versailles was much more beautiful. If you're going to spend time around Paris I recommend making the time up there to the museum. The palace is just amazing.
And when did they ban smoking cause when I went in May the place still stunk of smoke everywhere I went.
My second two times may have been coloured by the fact that I hated the city the first time I was there, but when I first got there I was excited to finally be in Paris, and it was just such a terrible experience by everyone I met there.
The beggars and people selling tourist crap on the streets are incredibly pushy. They will follow you and yell at you for far longer than I've ever seen anywhere else. Also I got pickpocketed while in an elevator. I wasn't stupid enough to carry money in my pockets (I had one of those pouches that go against the skin) but my friend saw the guy do it.
I really wanted to like Paris, but the people just absolutely ruin the experience of the city.
Every city has scumbags. Neds, chavs, thieves, grifters etc. When we were walking back to our hotel in Boston one night a couple tried to fleece us for scag money (sorry kids, grew up in the heroine capital of Scotland, I know a junky trying on a story for junk money when I hear it) then not much later two guys walk past us and one conspicuously flashes a gun he had stuffed in his waistline at us. This was about 100 feet from the entrance to the Boston Harbour Hotel. Still loved Boston though, wouldn't let a few gadgies ruin a good holiday. Honestly, I know what you mean about Paris - the caricature 'artists' and the gypsy beggars (one kid almost swiped a Pan Au Chocolat right out of my hand at the Eiffel Tower). Call it local colour and shrug it off. Paris is lightweight compared to the hassle you get in Havana.
And every time someone criticises Parisians for being rude, I think of the last time I was in the Louvre. They had run short on English copies of the guide map but had plenty of copies in other languages. The maps actually had very little text on them - just areas of the map labelled indicating what period of art was in what section, floor numbers etc. so what language they were in didn't really matter - 1, 2, 3, Mona Lisa, Renaissance are pretty much the same in any European language. An American tourist was yelling at the lady at the information desk because she couldn't give him a copy of the map in English for every single person in his 12 party group as if they couldn't just share one copy of the map, and yet she remained polite and calm during the whole confrontation.
Or the time I went with some guys from art college and we were out and about late at night and missed the metro station closing. We were panicking trying to figure out how to get back to the hotel from the other side of Paris when a guy gestured us to follow him, demonstrating how to jump the stall and then pointing us in the direction of the platform that would take us in the right direction.
There are cool people in Paris, don't tar them all with the same brush.