From what I gather, relationships from when they were alive and race have more to do with the effects of Transouling than anything else. Say a certain warrior was best pals with a certain duelist, you'll get better results. And since it seems like there is a real web of relationships going on, the different possibilities probably get pretty huge. In a pinch though, if you don't have a clue, try to stick them together by their race/nationality. Also, you can back out before a TS is finalized, so you can take a look at the general gains and losses and see if you think it's worth it.
I'm avoiding the Tome of Lost Souls as much as possible right now, because it's crammed with spoilers, but after I finish my first playthrough, I think it's going to be invaluable as a TS guide of sorts.
From what I've read, which seems to be supported by my experience, level also plays a factor in raising the receiving unit's level cap. Specifically, the further the sacrifice's level is away from the level cap, the bigger the boost in level and level cap to the receiver.
Now I wish there was a way to tell a unit's level cap without leveling them up.
From what I gather, relationships from when they were alive and race have more to do with the effects of Transouling than anything else. Say a certain warrior was best pals with a certain duelist, you'll get better results. And since it seems like there is a real web of relationships going on, the different possibilities probably get pretty huge. In a pinch though, if you don't have a clue, try to stick them together by their race/nationality. Also, you can back out before a TS is finalized, so you can take a look at the general gains and losses and see if you think it's worth it.
I'm avoiding the Tome of Lost Souls as much as possible right now, because it's crammed with spoilers, but after I finish my first playthrough, I think it's going to be invaluable as a TS guide of sorts.
From what I've read, which seems to be supported by my experience, level also plays a factor in raising the receiving unit's level cap. Specifically, the further the sacrifice's level is away from the level cap, the bigger the boost in level and level cap to the receiver.
Now I wish there was a way to tell a unit's level cap without leveling them up.
Also, you get an experience boost from TS. I thought I wasn't getting any raise in my level caps on my recipients the last few TSs I made, but then I realized that I was not only getting the cap raised but also getting XP boosted up to the new cap. I get the feeling that I've wasted a decent amount of XP by waiting until I hit the cap to TS.
Just when I think I get my head around the level of depth to this game, I realize that I'm just scratching the surface.
Just when I think I get my head around the level of depth to this game, I realize that I'm just scratching the surface.
Definitely the most complicated game I've ever played... and I'm loving it. (Just wish I could get my head around weapon effects... they still seem to just go off randomly.)
Dyvion on
Steam: No Safety In Life
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
Your Hit Count (that is, the number or hits you inflict in a single turn) activates Effects. When the Hit Count is the same number as the Effect, that Effect activates. The Effects are attached to the weapons you bring into battle, and as you upgrade your weapons, they get better effects and can have more of them. When your Hit Count gets to be over 100, it wraps around, so it's really only the last 2 digits. There are 99 Effects, and they're not all beneficial. I should know because I wrote all those damn descriptions. There's a list of them somewhere, and you can see the ones that your currently equipped weapons have by pausing during the round without highlighting a unit, monster, or obstacle.
Although why you aren't talking to every monster is a mystery.
Sqlorb.
Bursar on
GNU Terry Pratchett
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
Your Hit Count (that is, the number or hits you inflict in a single turn) activates Effects. When the Hit Count is the same number as the Effect, that Effect activates. The Effects are attached to the weapons you bring into battle, and as you upgrade your weapons, they get better effects and can have more of them. When your Hit Count gets to be over 100, it wraps around, so it's really only the last 2 digits. There are 99 Effects, and they're not all beneficial. I should know because I wrote all those damn descriptions. There's a list of them somewhere, and you can see the ones that your currently equipped weapons have by pausing during the round without highlighting a unit, monster, or obstacle.
Although why you aren't talking to every monster is a mystery.
Sqlorb.
Ok... I've pause talked a few of the people... but the monsters?! You can pause talk the monsters... Gee thanks for adding YET ANOTHER LEVEL OF DEPTH.
And I do mean that sincerely... thank you!
e: Oh yeah, hit counter... does it have to land on that specific number... or just pass by that number?
e2: Pause Talk Sentry:
This pain... I have come... to enjoy it...
Sqlorb indead.
Dyvion on
Steam: No Safety In Life
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
Ok... I've pause talked a few of the people... but the monsters?! You can pause talk the monsters... Gee thanks for adding YET ANOTHER LEVEL OF DEPTH.
And I do mean that sincerely... thank you!
e: Oh yeah, hit counter... does it have to land on that specific number... or just pass by that number?
e2: Pause Talk Sentry:
This pain... I have come... to enjoy it...
Sqlorb indead.
e) I'm fairly sure it has to be the current hit count, meaning your last attack has to land the HC at that number. That's part of what the 2-hit weaponless attacks are for. Then again, it's been a while, so I might be wrong.
Bursar on
GNU Terry Pratchett
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
They do describe the Hit Count phenom in one of the tutorials or tips, if I remember correctly.
I found one on effects... and something about 'rush count' but no specifics in the tutorials... I did find out about canceling enemy attacks and those weird boxes with numbers in... I should really go through all the tutorials.
Also... Law Index (LI) and Chaos Index (CI) are covered in the tips section, the higher the % the more damage attacks of that phase cause. And they affect loyalty rise, somehow. Loyalty affects Transouling... somehow.
So deep.
e: Oh... and it's possible to do -too- much damage to an object, and not getting the key item. If you take it from 0 to 100% in one go, you probably -won't- get the key item from that object. I've missed so many because of that.
Dyvion on
Steam: No Safety In Life
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
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NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
This game's grabbed my attention but being the 4th game in a series I've never played worries me. Is the story continuing from those games or if I go in to this one with no knowlege of the previous ones will i still be fine?
@Nappuccino - I had no idea this was part of an ongoing series, and I'm really enjoying the game.
Awesome, that's even better than I hoped
edit: now lets hope I can actually find this game
The previous titles in the series are Riviera: The Promised Land and Yggdra Union. Both are originally GBA titles, Yggdra Union got a re-release with some fresh polish on the PSP. Not sure if Riviera has a newer edition or not. They are both a lot of fun, they stand on their own just fine and the third game in the series is supposed to be an MMO, but I haven't heard anything about it beyond that. They are really worthwhile games in their own right, and if you can find a used copy at Gamestop/whatever, you should check them out. They do a lot of unique things and fun things.
It seems a lot of time passes in between each game, and from what I'm seeing in KitN, something epic and catastrophic happens around the time of the unreleased third game. I am intrigued.
Wow, I played through Riviera, and I never caught they were the same. Thinking back, I guess the art styles are similar. Didn't the
Dark Warrior chick
from Riviera have armor similar to the Warrior class in this game? I seem to remember that weird diamond-head thing from that game as well. It has been a few years though.
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DyvionBack in Sunny Florida!!Registered Userregular
Wow, I played through Riviera, and I never caught they were the same. Thinking back, I guess the art styles are similar. Didn't the
Dark Warrior chick
from Riviera have armor similar to the Warrior class in this game? I seem to remember that weird diamond-head thing from that game as well. It has been a few years though.
I've played through riviera twice... once on the GBA and once on the PSP. Still have the PSP version, but I haven't recognized any characters... just remotely similar play styles... very remote.
Gonna have to find Yggdra union.
Dyvion on
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PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I played Riviera for about 5 hours and disliked it, and also tried Yggdra Union for considerably less time and decided that it was just exhaustively cumbersome.
I think this game looks cool but I'm afraid I won't like it. How does it compare to other atlus stuff, or other "weird" jrpgs period. From reading this game sort of seems to remind me a bit of Valkyrie Profile in a few ways.
I played Riviera for about 5 hours and disliked it, and also tried Yggdra Union for considerably less time and decided that it was just exhaustively cumbersome.
I think this game looks cool but I'm afraid I won't like it. How does it compare to other atlus stuff, or other "weird" jrpgs period. From reading this game sort of seems to remind me a bit of Valkyrie Profile in a few ways.
I ended up returning it because, while it was fun, the story was moving so incredibly slowly and I felt like there was a little too much going on. I got by in battles just fine, but I decided I wanted a game that was more relaxing.
The combat system is definitely interesting and a new take on the whole thing. I'm not sure that I'm crazy about it, but if you're looking for something fresh, Knights probably has it.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
lots of d's and c's but I beat the second battle in the last round. wasn't very graceful. and the unnamed night left me.
edit - I guess the only real question on items is are there any you can only get on a first playthrough, and I highly highly highly doubt it.
I played Riviera for about 5 hours and disliked it, and also tried Yggdra Union for considerably less time and decided that it was just exhaustively cumbersome.
I think this game looks cool but I'm afraid I won't like it. How does it compare to other atlus stuff, or other "weird" jrpgs period. From reading this game sort of seems to remind me a bit of Valkyrie Profile in a few ways.
Let's put it this way - quite a few reviewers and quite a few gamers on message boards all over have deemed it the most complicated game they've played, ever.
Pureauthor on
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
I played Riviera for about 5 hours and disliked it, and also tried Yggdra Union for considerably less time and decided that it was just exhaustively cumbersome.
I think this game looks cool but I'm afraid I won't like it. How does it compare to other atlus stuff, or other "weird" jrpgs period. From reading this game sort of seems to remind me a bit of Valkyrie Profile in a few ways.
Let's put it this way - quite a few reviewers and quite a few gamers on message boards all over have deemed it the most complicated game they've played, ever.
If you are the kind of gamer who has to get everything about a system or you don't enjoy it because you feel like you are missing something, then this game probably isn't for you. If the story has to be told conventionally, then this probably isn't for you, the story throws you in at the deep end. Stuff is going on, all these characters are plotting and planning and you have to put it together by following the post battle flashbacks.
This is the sort of game where I'm sure I'm going to be learning stuff on my fourth and fifth playthrough, I doubt that the story will every be completely clear, and that there is always going to be a bunch of different ways to do things, none of them "right". This is the kind of gaming I crave, but I know that it ain't everyones cup of tea.
...Maria using a specific type of weapon, since her attack pattern is the same regardless? I basically just slap the highest durability weapon with a High Skill out there for her.
As far as I can see she has no element either, so you may as well use whatever's expendable for regular enemies and your best High Skill item on bosses. Just watch her relatively low Vit if you're using weak items or High Skills, 'cause it's not hard to drain her too soon.
Falstaff on
Still verbing the adjective noun.
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
She gets her own unique special attacks with weapons. A lance (or whatever) in her hands will do different stuff than in the hands of a knight (or whoever).
Just got this yesterday from amazon. Was surprised it came with an art book (didn't see any mention of it on the website). I only finished the "first steps" tutorials, and beat the first battle in the story. Seems great so far.
One question that has been bugging me: I know that you have to build up columns on the bottom of the screen to finish the battle. But I didn't pick up from the tutorials any rhyme or reason behind where the "blocks" (for want of a better description) show up.
chrono_traveller on
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
Just got this yesterday from amazon. Was surprised it came with an art book (didn't see any mention of it on the website). I only finished the "first steps" tutorials, and beat the first battle in the story. Seems great so far.
One question that has been bugging me: I know that you have to build up columns on the bottom of the screen to finish the battle. But I didn't pick up from the tutorials any rhyme or reason behind where the "blocks" (for want of a better description) show up.
The blocks are positioned in the setup phase. The slot machine sequence where you stop different columns from turning determines the location of the block on the kill matrix. Using this you can extend or shorten battles as you see fit, with a little practice.
The grid fills up based upon what enemies you kill. Between each round, you populate the grid with new monsters to kill using the enemy slot machine.
EDIT: Beaten, and with a better explaination, no less!
@Drake - Does she have unique attacks with each weapon type? As far as I can tell, she's just got her stock Law-attack and Chaos-attack regardless of weapon type.
Neurotika on
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
@Drake - Does she have unique attacks with each weapon type? As far as I can tell, she's just got her stock Law-attack and Chaos-attack regardless of weapon type.
I don't know, but that's an interesting question. I'll have to pay more attention to that the next time I get her in a battle.
@Drake - Does she have unique attacks with each weapon type? As far as I can tell, she's just got her stock Law-attack and Chaos-attack regardless of weapon type.
I don't know, but that's an interesting question. I'll have to pay more attention to that the next time I get her in a battle.
As far as I can tell from where I am, no. I'll assume that she'll get stuff that's unique to her later on or whenever EX skills pop up.
There are several "reels" of enemies. Each enemy on the "reel" corresponds to a single block; as that enemy passes by on the reel (which you stop between turns), that block will light up. So it might not be possible to fill certain columns or rows in a single turn if that column or row contains two enemies on the same reel.
On depth: for better or for worse, this game reminds me of Yahtzee's parodical portrayal of JRPGs as games for people who consider spreadsheets a form of entertainment.
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
On depth: for better or for worse, this game reminds me of Yahtzee's parodical portrayal of JRPGs as games for people who consider spreadsheets a form of entertainment.
Many RPG fans get a lot of their enjoyment out of the variety of equipment and the interplay of stats. If you came from the Table Top only days of RPGs like me, then you almost definitely fit into this category. I really appreciate the level of detail that they put into KitN in that regard, and especially appreciate the variety of ways that you can view the data. Most notably the Table view. The flexibility in ways to organize all the data in the game makes it fairly easy to deal with. I'm glad that us stat nerds haven't been relegated to the dust bin by action RPGs.
I would like to point out that there are indeed games (mostly on the PC) which resembles nothing so much as a huge bunch of spreadsheets.
Also I just realized that it's apparently impossible to recruit all the knights in any single playthrough. Worse yet, it's apparently random. That sucks and whoever it was at Dept. Heaven who thought it was a good idea sucks.
It is not random. It depends on which version of the story you're playing through (blue/red).
Bursar on
GNU Terry Pratchett
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
Spoilered until images are unborked.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
just finished reading through all the tutorials and I played one fight battle over again and actually felt like it was clicking a bit. I'm gonna start the story over since I'm only 2 battles in and I have a much better grasp of the game. I was really lost last night!
It is extremely complicated, so much so that I read a couple of things and more or less decided I'm just not going to think about them too much (yet) BUT it seems like it'll be rewarding.
DyvionBack in Sunny Florida!!Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
Someone mentioned earlier the abstract story telling... I just wanted to point out that along with flash backs and scenes in the present, a lot of story can be gained from pause talks with your knights... and those pause talks also provide large clues about who transouls well with who.
Dyvion on
Steam: No Safety In Life
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
Posts
From what I've read, which seems to be supported by my experience, level also plays a factor in raising the receiving unit's level cap. Specifically, the further the sacrifice's level is away from the level cap, the bigger the boost in level and level cap to the receiver.
Now I wish there was a way to tell a unit's level cap without leveling them up.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Also, you get an experience boost from TS. I thought I wasn't getting any raise in my level caps on my recipients the last few TSs I made, but then I realized that I was not only getting the cap raised but also getting XP boosted up to the new cap. I get the feeling that I've wasted a decent amount of XP by waiting until I hit the cap to TS.
Just when I think I get my head around the level of depth to this game, I realize that I'm just scratching the surface.
Definitely the most complicated game I've ever played... and I'm loving it. (Just wish I could get my head around weapon effects... they still seem to just go off randomly.)
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
Although why you aren't talking to every monster is a mystery.
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
That would be glorious.
Also the fact that you can move lancers/fencers around one round and then swap in a different class on a different round totally blows my mind.
Ok... I've pause talked a few of the people... but the monsters?! You can pause talk the monsters... Gee thanks for adding YET ANOTHER LEVEL OF DEPTH.
And I do mean that sincerely... thank you!
e: Oh yeah, hit counter... does it have to land on that specific number... or just pass by that number?
e2: Pause Talk Sentry:
Sqlorb indead.
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
e) I'm fairly sure it has to be the current hit count, meaning your last attack has to land the HC at that number. That's part of what the 2-hit weaponless attacks are for. Then again, it's been a while, so I might be wrong.
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
I found one on effects... and something about 'rush count' but no specifics in the tutorials... I did find out about canceling enemy attacks and those weird boxes with numbers in... I should really go through all the tutorials.
Also... Law Index (LI) and Chaos Index (CI) are covered in the tips section, the higher the % the more damage attacks of that phase cause. And they affect loyalty rise, somehow. Loyalty affects Transouling... somehow.
So deep.
e: Oh... and it's possible to do -too- much damage to an object, and not getting the key item. If you take it from 0 to 100% in one go, you probably -won't- get the key item from that object. I've missed so many because of that.
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
Awesome, that's even better than I hoped
edit: now lets hope I can actually find this game
Edit: Also on the last scene there are only
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
The previous titles in the series are Riviera: The Promised Land and Yggdra Union. Both are originally GBA titles, Yggdra Union got a re-release with some fresh polish on the PSP. Not sure if Riviera has a newer edition or not. They are both a lot of fun, they stand on their own just fine and the third game in the series is supposed to be an MMO, but I haven't heard anything about it beyond that. They are really worthwhile games in their own right, and if you can find a used copy at Gamestop/whatever, you should check them out. They do a lot of unique things and fun things.
It seems a lot of time passes in between each game, and from what I'm seeing in KitN, something epic and catastrophic happens around the time of the unreleased third game. I am intrigued.
I think I can live with that...
edit: wow, the first 2 are fairly cheap used. I was expecting them to practically be full priced games given what happens to atlus's ps2 games.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
from Riviera have armor similar to the Warrior class in this game? I seem to remember that weird diamond-head thing from that game as well. It has been a few years though.
I've played through riviera twice... once on the GBA and once on the PSP. Still have the PSP version, but I haven't recognized any characters... just remotely similar play styles... very remote.
Gonna have to find Yggdra union.
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
I think this game looks cool but I'm afraid I won't like it. How does it compare to other atlus stuff, or other "weird" jrpgs period. From reading this game sort of seems to remind me a bit of Valkyrie Profile in a few ways.
I ended up returning it because, while it was fun, the story was moving so incredibly slowly and I felt like there was a little too much going on. I got by in battles just fine, but I decided I wanted a game that was more relaxing.
The combat system is definitely interesting and a new take on the whole thing. I'm not sure that I'm crazy about it, but if you're looking for something fresh, Knights probably has it.
edit - I guess the only real question on items is are there any you can only get on a first playthrough, and I highly highly highly doubt it.
Let's put it this way - quite a few reviewers and quite a few gamers on message boards all over have deemed it the most complicated game they've played, ever.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
If you are the kind of gamer who has to get everything about a system or you don't enjoy it because you feel like you are missing something, then this game probably isn't for you. If the story has to be told conventionally, then this probably isn't for you, the story throws you in at the deep end. Stuff is going on, all these characters are plotting and planning and you have to put it together by following the post battle flashbacks.
This is the sort of game where I'm sure I'm going to be learning stuff on my fourth and fifth playthrough, I doubt that the story will every be completely clear, and that there is always going to be a bunch of different ways to do things, none of them "right". This is the kind of gaming I crave, but I know that it ain't everyones cup of tea.
One question that has been bugging me: I know that you have to build up columns on the bottom of the screen to finish the battle. But I didn't pick up from the tutorials any rhyme or reason behind where the "blocks" (for want of a better description) show up.
The blocks are positioned in the setup phase. The slot machine sequence where you stop different columns from turning determines the location of the block on the kill matrix. Using this you can extend or shorten battles as you see fit, with a little practice.
EDIT: Beaten, and with a better explaination, no less!
@Drake - Does she have unique attacks with each weapon type? As far as I can tell, she's just got her stock Law-attack and Chaos-attack regardless of weapon type.
I don't know, but that's an interesting question. I'll have to pay more attention to that the next time I get her in a battle.
As far as I can tell from where I am, no. I'll assume that she'll get stuff that's unique to her later on or whenever EX skills pop up.
My only advice to new players is that Hiskills vs bosses are your best bet. And break everything.
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
On depth: for better or for worse, this game reminds me of Yahtzee's parodical portrayal of JRPGs as games for people who consider spreadsheets a form of entertainment.
Many RPG fans get a lot of their enjoyment out of the variety of equipment and the interplay of stats. If you came from the Table Top only days of RPGs like me, then you almost definitely fit into this category. I really appreciate the level of detail that they put into KitN in that regard, and especially appreciate the variety of ways that you can view the data. Most notably the Table view. The flexibility in ways to organize all the data in the game makes it fairly easy to deal with. I'm glad that us stat nerds haven't been relegated to the dust bin by action RPGs.
Also I just realized that it's apparently impossible to recruit all the knights in any single playthrough. Worse yet, it's apparently random. That sucks and whoever it was at Dept. Heaven who thought it was a good idea sucks.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
It is extremely complicated, so much so that I read a couple of things and more or less decided I'm just not going to think about them too much (yet) BUT it seems like it'll be rewarding.
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion