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I gotta do WHAT? [Unlockables in multiplayer games]
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I hated unlocking characters in Brawl/SF4
Optional achievements/cosmetic unlockables have the potential for being fun. I just hate when people go completely out of their way to get an achivement (i.e. all of TF2 unlockables).
Forcing me to use/buy some crappy add on device is even worse. I'm looking at you dreamcast VMU games.
that is a very bad and silly way to think in my opinion!!
Also, SSE was the biggest drag for me. I used it to get the characters, but I basically only played it for that, and I didn't find it fun at all. I haven't tried it since launch, though.
dream a little dream or you could live a little dream
sleep forever if you wish to be a dreamer
Why doesn't half-life give me the rocket launcher at the start? What is this bullshit about having to play the game!??!
That is what it was like when the Medic achievements launched for TF2, but Valve learned from there mistake and made easier achievements and ones more likely to be acheived through regular playing, you don't need to work for a weapon, you can play the class normally, having fun and still get achievements that will contribute toward the weapons.
That is why most of us play, to have fun.
It is "fun" to get something new after working for it, like a pat on the back for doing something right. But when I step into a multiplayer game and everyone's using some awesome gun that I don't have yet, it gets dull really fast.
Developers should be focusing on making the game fun without the use of gimmicks.
single player and multiplayer games are different and are played differently. hope this helps
video games are bullshit
Valve may have intended that only people who play the class often, or very well, should get the achievements and have the weapons, but the fact is that maybe half a day after the medic unlockables came out, there were custom servers and maps springing up all over for the express purpose of getting them in minutes rather than hours or days. They haven't put a lock on certain server variables have they? Or banned people who play achievement_x maps? I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they don't particularly want players to get their achievements this way, but any action taken to that end would hurt more than help. So is it okay to circumvent the intent of the devs so long as you do it using a method they can't easily stop?
Welcome to the unlocker.
try scrolling up a post! ok!
when i play an online RTS, all strategies for all races should be implicitly built into the game so that I am not put at a disadvantage for my lack of experience.
video games are bullshit.
ding ding ding
I also like having persistent characters or profiles across single and multi. HAWX, for example, lets you earn experience across both modes. Not all games can work this way, but it's great when they do.
im sitting here in this boring ass class trying to translate this post into realtalk and its not going so hot--is the suggestion that starcraft not coming with a strategy guide with build orders is the same as having to grind achievements in tf2? because that doesnt really make sense?
My one gripe with CoD is the challenge system, so often I'll have done some hard/out of the way challenge, only before I've unlocked it. Kill three guys and myself with a grenade still in my hand? Done it, but I don't get credit for it because I haven't unlocked that challenge yet.
I think Battlefield: Bad Company may have done the unlocking bit better than CoD, in that as you gain levels you get 'Unlock Points' that you then use to purchase new guns/equipment, rathen than following CoD's set unlock path as you level up.
Combine CoD's challenges, custom class system, and weapons variety with BF:BC's unlock scheme and I'd be in heaven.
start general and get specific.
here are two games - we've no idea their basis.
without knowing their types, we can know that both games require experience to gain an implicit advantage over other players. But, you are saying that one game should not be allowed to work in this way, while the other is fine.
I am assuming you could say starcraft is fine, because it is the most balanced game to ever exist ever.
but you are saying that TF2 is NOT fine when it operates under identically the same mechanism - through experience, one earns the able strategies to take on opponents in a more dynamic way. In fact, even if someone is given unlockables right off the bat, i 100% gurantee you if you took a player who immediately unlocked his weapons in tf2 versus a player that worked toward unlocking his weapons and neither had any experience with the weapons previously, the achiever would come out on top.
WOW JUST LIKE REAL LIFE
It is really not this hard.
whups! in tf2 the advantage isn't implicit, it's explicit
and im not saying this to be a nitpicking shithead but because it gets to the crux of the problem. if every sc race had freakin sweet units that could only be unlocked by playing 5000 matches, or killing ten siege tanks with probes, or whatever, then that would be silly. and it would be a way of artificially (explicitly) giving an advantage to more experienced players, rather than naturally (implicitly) as it is now. which works pretty well in my view
There's really no way to justify if it's "the right thing to do," just preference on how you like to play games. Valve might turn TF2 into a pseudo-MMO with weapon drops with better stats. Then that's just how the game will be and some people will like it and some won't. The ONLY issue I see with this is for people who bought the game already under the pretext that the mechanics would never change, but this would be a subject for another topic.
I wonder how popular a server that has unlocks disabled would be...
Are you taking the piss, if you're taking the piss then you've done a tremendous job. If you're serious then you win the stupidest post of the day award.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
dream a little dream or you could live a little dream
sleep forever if you wish to be a dreamer
unless you take over the valve servers, this is now impossible
as i undestand it with the 'cloud' or whatever buzzword shit they're using
Well I've seen servers with spies disabled or melee-only. I've even seen an RPG-flavoured one where high-leveled people flew around and shot out laser beams of death. It would seem silly that a weapon restriction would not be allowed. Yet, a quick google search on such a mod yields no results so I can trust this to be the case.
I don't understand why people seem to get so bent out of shape over this particular subject. Gamers are a funny lot.
I'm comparing neither game to Tf2, but using one as an example of bad balance and another to counter the idea of not being handed everything from the moment of purchase
I'd hate to say it, but please read posts in context
i don't ever want to work in a game, period
it's suppose to be fun
i don't mind practicing shit every once in a while; but, don't make me work.
it's just like my experiences at high levels in MUDs (MMOs whatever)
In TF2, unlockables are set and you have to perform stunts you normally wouldnt do. There are a number of grindy achievements and a number of stunt-ish ones. take your pick. now if I see someone playing with the FaN i would have to spend a lot of time doing shit I dont really care to do to even try it out. that just seems like a lot of bullshit work for a few minutes of 'oh thats cool.' This really isnt acceptable.
I love achievements to just get some reward for doing shit, but making feel like a chore to gain something takes everything fun out of it.
As well, many (hell, all of them) of the weapons are 'side-grades'. Not better than the normal weapons but certainly better in some situations, and even worse in others. You may be out classed if say you're a heavy and a pyro gets behind you, but in many other situations you have the hand up on him. So it balances itself out.
I think there's a lot of over-statment on what exactly we're talking about here
Basically your argument is that gameplay-altering unlockables are bad. Now, presumably, you mean because other people having the unlocks when you don't creates an unlevel playing field.
You have two possible solutions: you can either unlock the achievements legitimately, or you can cheat. If you unlock them legitimately, then you will still be on roughly the same playing field as everyone who plays the class with the same frequency you do, and only slightly below people who play more often, and only slightly above people who play less often.
Your other option is to cheat. Suddenly, this hella unlevels the playing field because suddenly you have all the unlocks even at a time when people playing legitimately have no achievements. You've made the gap between the haves and the have-nots much wider. In fact, this was your original concern.
So, even if unlockables are bad, by cheating them you become a hypocrite who claims to want a level playing field but in fact only wants everybody else to be on a level playing field.
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You want to try to make getting into a game for a new player as easy as possible. It's hard enough for a new player to be fighting people who are better than he is, they don't need better gear too.
You shouldn't have to put time into a game to unlock things to compete, you should put time into a game to get better and thusly be able to compete.
It's why MMOs are terrible games for competition, while fighting games are much better (though many have needlessly obtuse controls that act as a barrier for entry for new players, but that is a different discussion).