Personally I think the fact that we know what they did, and have the capability to not prosecute them at all is a pretty large failing. The mere fact that we are choosing to ignore torture, hell that we have the ability to choose to ignore it instead of having to investigate the claims and prosecute those responsible bothers me.
This is what Impeachment is for. Do you think that's going to happen?
Um, retroactively? No.
How about right now, for failing to uphold the laws of our nation?
Do I think ANYTHING is going to happen besides possible some expendable flunkies being wrist slapped and hid away for 6 months before being promoted for taking one for the team? No.
Does the fact our current "administration" does not want to spend the "political capital" to "investigate" the "alleged" torture of prisoners under orders is complete and utter bullshit? Yes, yes i do. Lets just sweep it under the rug and hope everyone forgets because noone wants to admit that we both use, and condone torture despite the fact we are not supposed to.
I think we have a winner. Which I believe is a recipe for disaster. Once again, let's have a moment of silence for our Republic.
I am sure Reid and Ensign will get right on that. Especially since this is not a "partisan" problem. If they could dump it all on "red team" we might have a shot. Sadly blue team knows they are just as culpable, and does not want to risk the "backlash".
Conyers and Pelosi...?
Leahy is the chair of the Judiciary Committee and he's fucking pissed. And Batman.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Personally I think the fact that we know what they did, and have the capability to not prosecute them at all is a pretty large failing. The mere fact that we are choosing to ignore torture, hell that we have the ability to choose to ignore it instead of having to investigate the claims and prosecute those responsible bothers me.
This is what Impeachment is for. Do you think that's going to happen?
Um, retroactively? No.
How about right now, for failing to uphold the laws of our nation?
So you want to impeach the new administration for not prosecuting the former administration? After 10 weeks?
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
Personally I think the fact that we know what they did, and have the capability to not prosecute them at all is a pretty large failing. The mere fact that we are choosing to ignore torture, hell that we have the ability to choose to ignore it instead of having to investigate the claims and prosecute those responsible bothers me.
This is what Impeachment is for. Do you think that's going to happen?
Um, retroactively? No.
How about right now, for failing to uphold the laws of our nation?
So you want to impeach the new administration for not prosecuting the former administration? After 10 weeks?
For illegal wars that have cost over a million there lives and destroyed the futures of even more? The inhuman realities of the torture of possible innocents? Yes. It should have been Issue Number Fucking One.
Also, issue #1 is obviously not entering a massive worldwide depression that ruins billions of lives over the next decade. That's issue #1.
EDIT: Also! For the first few weeks he didn't have an Attorney General. Who has to clean up the entire friggin' Justice Department. And didn't get the rest of his appointments for another few weeks. The Justice Department has been semi-functional for like five weeks top. That these memos are being released are a pretty big step towards potential prosecutions. Now it's up to the people to actually be angry enough to make it happen.
So you know, do that.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
That's getting a little ahead of yourself, but it's true that Obama's reluctance to pursue prosecution for damn near literally breaking multiple nations (including their own) shows that he cares about expediency more than the actual rule of law.
Which, you know, is pretty much the only possibility in this country, but that doesn't make the decision or the country any less terrible.
It drives me nuts to think that an assload of people came out yesterday to protest, you know, something, but very few of those people are going to blink an eyelid at these memos.
It drives me nuts to think that an assload of people came out yesterday to protest, you know, something, but very few of those people are going to blink an eyelid at these memos.
Actually most of those people would protest the release of the memos. Sullivan has a round up of reactions.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
Also, issue #1 is obviously not entering a massive worldwide depression that ruins billions of lives over the next decade. That's issue #1.
EDIT: Also! For the first few weeks he didn't have an Attorney General. Who has to clean up the entire friggin' Justice Department. And didn't get the rest of his appointments for another few weeks. The Justice Department has been semi-functional for like five weeks top. That these memos are being released are a pretty big step towards potential prosecutions. Now it's up to the people to actually be angry enough to make it happen.
Also, issue #1 is obviously not entering a massive worldwide depression that ruins billions of lives over the next decade. That's issue #1.
EDIT: Also! For the first few weeks he didn't have an Attorney General. Who has to clean up the entire friggin' Justice Department. And didn't get the rest of his appointments for another few weeks. The Justice Department has been semi-functional for like five weeks top. That these memos are being released are a pretty big step towards potential prosecutions. Now it's up to the people to actually be angry enough to make it happen.
But yeah, I'll keep mailing Congress and the White House like I have been, to no avail.
It's a pretty specific indication of who they're not prosecuting. The CIA grunts aren't being prosecuted. It's Yoo, Bybee, etc we want. That they've never committed on and we just got the key information released. They want Congress to do it, which is pretty clear. It's up to Conyers and Pelosi most likely but people need to keep bugging them.
enlightenedbum on
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
Unless I'm mistaken, I believe Pelosi signed off on this shit. We'll see if Conyers is up to snuff.
Edit: Do you see what I mean? This goes far beyond Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld or Yoo. It gets bipartisan. Into people that Obama either doesn't want to look at or "needs" in his corner. We are fucked unless we get some people who are willing to uphold the Constitution and the law of our nation.
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
I'm not entirely sure where this 'he's not going to have the balls/political will/etc. to bother investigating former Bush/non-bush officials' is coming from, given the fact that Obama released these memos nearly entirely unredacted. As Greenwald noted, his own CIA was fighting him tooth and nail, so there's little to suggest he gains political capital by releasing things which cause his own departments to revolt on him.
If he's willing to do the right thing in this case, his own political considerations be damned, then I'm not seeing how it's a far stretch to suggest he'd be willing to go further.
I'm not entirely sure where this 'he's not going to have the balls/political will/etc. to bother investigating former Bush/non-bush officials' is coming from, given the fact that Obama released these memos nearly entirely unredacted. As Greenwald noted, his own CIA was fighting him tooth and nail, so there's little to suggest he gains political capital by releasing things which cause his own departments to revolt on him.
If he's willing to do the right thing in this case, his own political considerations be damned, then I'm not seeing how it's a far stretch to suggest he'd be willing to go further.
Actually they were being sued for the documents. Yesterday was the deadline to release them. So it's not like they just decided to put them out for the hell of it.
Also, color me shocked that the CIA lost a fight with the White House. Because that never happened under the old boss.
I just came back from a luncheon meeting with my congressman, and I kept thinking about what I wanted to ask, if anything, about this. Because quite frankly the only thing that the House could do right now is to impeach Jay Bybee. But he's not done anything wrong as a judge to merit impeachment. So as I sat in a room full of dedicated Dems (including some of his strongest supporters), I didn't hear one thing about this. No one cared. They wanted to know that the economy and education and health care were going to get fixed. Worrying about this was the least of their concerns, and so I can't imagine how little the public at large cares about this, but my guess is some small value approaching zero.
Hey guys, guess what Fox News says about the memos?Obama was Reckless! Also, vindication! It wasn't torture!
I love that it specifically talks about how we call these things torture when other people do it, but that shouldn't have any bearing on our internal discussions on if it's torture.
AKA: it's either fine when we do it, or other people don't torture, either.
It is very important to the moral character of this country that [strike]somebody very important in the[/strike] Bush [strike] administration[/strike] is prosecuted for this.
Fixed. No more Ollie Norths. No more G Gordon Liddy's. No more Scooter Libbys.
The Buck Stops Here. No more patsies and loyal soldiers falling on their swords
I'm not entirely sure where this 'he's not going to have the balls/political will/etc. to bother investigating former Bush/non-bush officials' is coming from, given the fact that Obama released these memos nearly entirely unredacted. As Greenwald noted, his own CIA was fighting him tooth and nail, so there's little to suggest he gains political capital by releasing things which cause his own departments to revolt on him.
If he's willing to do the right thing in this case, his own political considerations be damned, then I'm not seeing how it's a far stretch to suggest he'd be willing to go further.
Actually they were being sued for the documents. Yesterday was the deadline to release them. So it's not like they just decided to put them out for the hell of it.
The government doesn't automatically release every piece of internal documents unless asked for. Guess what a FOIA request does?
It is very important to the moral character of this country that [strike]somebody very important in the[/strike] Bush [strike] administration[/strike] is prosecuted for this.
Fixed. No more Ollie Norths. No more G Gordon Liddy's. No more Scooter Libbys.
The Buck Stops Here. No more patsies and loyal soldiers falling on their swords
Hey guys, guess what Fox News says about the memos?Obama was Reckless! Also, vindication! It wasn't torture!
Okay, so this:
Michael Chertoff, former homeland security secretary, told FOX News the release gives terrorists advanced notice of what to expect during interrogation. Former CIA chief Michael Hayden said it could have a chilling effect on CIA agents' work.
I really don't get this in the context of what was leaked. Nothing mentioned is really that pioneering. I mean, terrorists have probably heard of sleep deprivation, and roughing people up, and stress positions, and water boarding. These are all things that everybody is familiar with. The revelation here is not "oh wow the US invented some new and terrible practice!" but rather "the US has been doing all of the barbaric shit that people have been accusing us of for years". If terrorists want to prep themselves for torture, they already knew what to incorporate before this memo was released.
So in what way is this reckless, even in retarded We Must Torture Or the Terrorists Win land?
ElJeffe on
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I think it's kind of retarded that they're acting like people who are known for capturing and beheading civilians on videotape don't already have a pretty good idea of what "torture" entails.
Hey guys, guess what Fox News says about the memos?Obama was Reckless! Also, vindication! It wasn't torture!
Okay, so this:
Michael Chertoff, former homeland security secretary, told FOX News the release gives terrorists advanced notice of what to expect during interrogation. Former CIA chief Michael Hayden said it could have a chilling effect on CIA agents' work.
I really don't get this in the context of what was leaked. Nothing mentioned is really that pioneering. I mean, terrorists have probably heard of sleep deprivation, and roughing people up, and stress positions, and water boarding. These are all things that everybody is familiar with. The revelation here is not "oh wow the US invented some new and terrible practice!" but rather "the US has been doing all of the barbaric shit that people have been accusing us of for years". If terrorists want to prep themselves for torture, they already knew what to incorporate before this memo was released.
So in what way is this reckless, even in retarded We Must Torture Or the Terrorists Win land?
Hey guys, guess what Fox News says about the memos?Obama was Reckless! Also, vindication! It wasn't torture!
Okay, so this:
Michael Chertoff, former homeland security secretary, told FOX News the release gives terrorists advanced notice of what to expect during interrogation. Former CIA chief Michael Hayden said it could have a chilling effect on CIA agents' work.
I really don't get this in the context of what was leaked. Nothing mentioned is really that pioneering. I mean, terrorists have probably heard of sleep deprivation, and roughing people up, and stress positions, and water boarding. These are all things that everybody is familiar with. The revelation here is not "oh wow the US invented some new and terrible practice!" but rather "the US has been doing all of the barbaric shit that people have been accusing us of for years". If terrorists want to prep themselves for torture, they already knew what to incorporate before this memo was released.
So in what way is this reckless, even in retarded We Must Torture Or the Terrorists Win land?
Not only that, but the new administration is stopping most of those practices on the grounds of being fucking torture. So even if a memo let terrorists know that the CIA used the Pear of Anguish in 2005, and they decided to prepare for it through the 12-step Lexington Steele program, it wouldn't even matter because they wouldn't be subjected to it if they were captured today.
Unless there is something that a) isn't torture, b) isn't widely known, and c) can be prepared for described in the memos then his objection holds no water.
Hey guys, guess what Fox News says about the memos?Obama was Reckless! Also, vindication! It wasn't torture!
Okay, so this:
Michael Chertoff, former homeland security secretary, told FOX News the release gives terrorists advanced notice of what to expect during interrogation. Former CIA chief Michael Hayden said it could have a chilling effect on CIA agents' work.
I really don't get this in the context of what was leaked. Nothing mentioned is really that pioneering. I mean, terrorists have probably heard of sleep deprivation, and roughing people up, and stress positions, and water boarding. These are all things that everybody is familiar with. The revelation here is not "oh wow the US invented some new and terrible practice!" but rather "the US has been doing all of the barbaric shit that people have been accusing us of for years". If terrorists want to prep themselves for torture, they already knew what to incorporate before this memo was released.
So in what way is this reckless, even in retarded We Must Torture Or the Terrorists Win land?
So they can say that Obama failed to keep Americans safe and impeach him if there's another attack. That's why. It's politically motivated, callous, souless bullshit.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Well, I know that it's politically motivated bullshit. But usually something repeated that often from as varied an array of sources has some sort of pseudo-logic to back it up. I figured there must be something, some misinterpreted report, or some half-assed argument.
You know, something more sophisticated than "hurrr".
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Michael Chertoff, former homeland security secretary, told FOX News the release gives terrorists advanced notice of what to expect during interrogation. Former CIA chief Michael Hayden said it could have a chilling effect on CIA agents' work.
I don't understand this statement, weren't those documents released with the idea of "We aren't doing that anymore!"?
Well, I know that it's politically motivated bullshit. But usually something repeated that often from as varied an array of sources has some sort of pseudo-logic to back it up. I figured there must be something, some misinterpreted report, or some half-assed argument.
You know, something more sophisticated than "hurrr".
Since when? It's all you should be scared bullshit and always has been.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I just can't believe how readily the revelation of using insects stuffed with you inside a coffin to exploit an individual's phobia is getting latched onto and so easily dismissed. Particularly since it was, to me, one of the most horrific facts in the memo. That is literally Orwellian. 1984, 'everyone knows what's in room 101' level Orwellian. But oh I'm not afraid of caterpillars so abloo bloo bloo Mr. Ayrab. The lack of universal condemnation here just makes me weep. And not crocodile tears like Mr. Beck.
Michael Chertoff, former homeland security secretary, told FOX News the release gives terrorists advanced notice of what to expect during interrogation. Former CIA chief Michael Hayden said it could have a chilling effect on CIA agents' work.
I don't understand this statement, weren't those documents released with the idea of "We aren't doing that anymore!"?
No, see, outrage is always cumulative, even when the effects of the separate events leading to each instance of outrage aren't.
The mathematics of knee-jerk and masturbatory outrage are very complicated, but I try to explain them to the common man in my new book, Fuck You, Cloud!
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I just can't believe how readily the revelation of using insects stuffed with you inside a coffin to exploit an individual's phobia is getting latched onto and so easily dismissed. Particularly since it was, to me, one of the most horrific facts in the memo. That is literally Orwellian. 1984, 'everyone knows what's in room 101' level Orwellian. But oh I'm not afraid of caterpillars so abloo bloo bloo Mr. Ayrab. The lack of universal condemnation here just makes me weep. And not crocodile tears like Mr. Beck.
Yeah, that was the one that hit me hardest, too. It helps that I have a wife who suffers from panic disorder and has some pretty deep-seated phobias. I think deliberately exploiting that sort of thing is easily worse than whatever physical discomfort results from waterboarding.
I was especially pissed by the willful obfuscation inherent in saying they would make sure "no reasonable person" would think they stood a chance of serious harm from the stinging insect. Phobias are inherently unreasonable, you cuntbiscuits - the person is potentially going to be terrified to the point of permanent psychological damage no matter what fucking bug you lock in with them.
That said, my understanding is that certain officials wanted to do this, but that they weren't given the go-ahead. Is that accurate?
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I just can't believe how readily the revelation of using insects stuffed with you inside a coffin to exploit an individual's phobia is getting latched onto and so easily dismissed. Particularly since it was, to me, one of the most horrific facts in the memo. That is literally Orwellian. 1984, 'everyone knows what's in room 101' level Orwellian. But oh I'm not afraid of caterpillars so abloo bloo bloo Mr. Ayrab. The lack of universal condemnation here just makes me weep. And not crocodile tears like Mr. Beck.
Yeah, that was the one that hit me hardest, too. It helps that I have a wife who suffers from panic disorder and has some pretty deep-seated phobias. I think deliberately exploiting that sort of thing is easily worse than whatever physical discomfort results from waterboarding.
I was especially pissed by the willful obfuscation inherent in saying they would make sure "no reasonable person" would think they stood a chance of serious harm from the stinging insect. Phobias are inherently unreasonable, you cuntbiscuits - the person is potentially going to be terrified to the point of permanent psychological damage no matter what fucking bug you lock in with them.
That said, my understanding is that certain officials wanted to do this, but that they weren't given the go-ahead. Is that accurate?
It reads to me that they were given the go ahead as long as the insect in question was not stinging but they did not have to tell the prisoner that.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I just can't believe how readily the revelation of using insects stuffed with you inside a coffin to exploit an individual's phobia is getting latched onto and so easily dismissed. Particularly since it was, to me, one of the most horrific facts in the memo. That is literally Orwellian. 1984, 'everyone knows what's in room 101' level Orwellian. But oh I'm not afraid of caterpillars so abloo bloo bloo Mr. Ayrab. The lack of universal condemnation here just makes me weep. And not crocodile tears like Mr. Beck.
Yeah, that was the one that hit me hardest, too. It helps that I have a wife who suffers from panic disorder and has some pretty deep-seated phobias. I think deliberately exploiting that sort of thing is easily worse than whatever physical discomfort results from waterboarding.
I was especially pissed by the willful obfuscation inherent in saying they would make sure "no reasonable person" would think they stood a chance of serious harm from the stinging insect. Phobias are inherently unreasonable, you cuntbiscuits - the person is potentially going to be terrified to the point of permanent psychological damage no matter what fucking bug you lock in with them.
That said, my understanding is that certain officials wanted to do this, but that they weren't given the go-ahead. Is that accurate?
It reads to me that they were given the go ahead as long as the insect in question was not stinging but they did not have to tell the prisoner that.
The insect interrogation technique, as it turned out, was never used by the CIA, according to a second declassified memo released Thursday. "We understand that — for reasons unrelated to any concerns that it might violate the [criminal] statute — the CIA never used the technique and has removed it from the list of authorized interrogation techniques," wrote Steven Bradbury, a principal deputy assistant attorney general, in the footnote to a on May 10, 2005 document. Former Vice President Dick Cheney has admitted that U.S. interrogators used waterboarding on three detainees, including Zubaydah.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Note that I haven't read the second memo, so I'm going based off Time's assessment.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Seriously, though, what kind of person does it take to make it their job to come up with ways to torture that might not be technically illegal? What sort of fucked up sociopath comes up with, "Well, let's lock this bugophobe in a coffin with some crawlies and tell him that they're going to sting the fuck out of him. Oh, but it won't hurt too bad."
I mean, Jesus.
ElJeffe on
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Posts
How about right now, for failing to uphold the laws of our nation?
I think we have a winner. Which I believe is a recipe for disaster. Once again, let's have a moment of silence for our Republic.
Conyers and Pelosi...?
Leahy is the chair of the Judiciary Committee and he's fucking pissed. And Batman.
So you want to impeach the new administration for not prosecuting the former administration? After 10 weeks?
For illegal wars that have cost over a million there lives and destroyed the futures of even more? The inhuman realities of the torture of possible innocents? Yes. It should have been Issue Number Fucking One.
Make him do it. Good Lord.
Also, issue #1 is obviously not entering a massive worldwide depression that ruins billions of lives over the next decade. That's issue #1.
EDIT: Also! For the first few weeks he didn't have an Attorney General. Who has to clean up the entire friggin' Justice Department. And didn't get the rest of his appointments for another few weeks. The Justice Department has been semi-functional for like five weeks top. That these memos are being released are a pretty big step towards potential prosecutions. Now it's up to the people to actually be angry enough to make it happen.
So you know, do that.
Which, you know, is pretty much the only possibility in this country, but that doesn't make the decision or the country any less terrible.
Actually most of those people would protest the release of the memos. Sullivan has a round up of reactions.
So far, the rhetoric from this administration denies any possibility of prosecution. Because we like to look forward and the economy and blah blah.
But yeah, I'll keep mailing Congress and the White House like I have been, to no avail.
It's a pretty specific indication of who they're not prosecuting. The CIA grunts aren't being prosecuted. It's Yoo, Bybee, etc we want. That they've never committed on and we just got the key information released. They want Congress to do it, which is pretty clear. It's up to Conyers and Pelosi most likely but people need to keep bugging them.
Edit: Do you see what I mean? This goes far beyond Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld or Yoo. It gets bipartisan. Into people that Obama either doesn't want to look at or "needs" in his corner. We are fucked unless we get some people who are willing to uphold the Constitution and the law of our nation.
If he's willing to do the right thing in this case, his own political considerations be damned, then I'm not seeing how it's a far stretch to suggest he'd be willing to go further.
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Actually they were being sued for the documents. Yesterday was the deadline to release them. So it's not like they just decided to put them out for the hell of it.
Also, color me shocked that the CIA lost a fight with the White House. Because that never happened under the old boss.
I just came back from a luncheon meeting with my congressman, and I kept thinking about what I wanted to ask, if anything, about this. Because quite frankly the only thing that the House could do right now is to impeach Jay Bybee. But he's not done anything wrong as a judge to merit impeachment. So as I sat in a room full of dedicated Dems (including some of his strongest supporters), I didn't hear one thing about this. No one cared. They wanted to know that the economy and education and health care were going to get fixed. Worrying about this was the least of their concerns, and so I can't imagine how little the public at large cares about this, but my guess is some small value approaching zero.
I love that it specifically talks about how we call these things torture when other people do it, but that shouldn't have any bearing on our internal discussions on if it's torture.
AKA: it's either fine when we do it, or other people don't torture, either.
Fixed. No more Ollie Norths. No more G Gordon Liddy's. No more Scooter Libbys.
The Buck Stops Here. No more patsies and loyal soldiers falling on their swords
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
The government doesn't automatically release every piece of internal documents unless asked for. Guess what a FOIA request does?
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*sigh*
What I wouldn't give to see that happen.
Okay, so this:
I really don't get this in the context of what was leaked. Nothing mentioned is really that pioneering. I mean, terrorists have probably heard of sleep deprivation, and roughing people up, and stress positions, and water boarding. These are all things that everybody is familiar with. The revelation here is not "oh wow the US invented some new and terrible practice!" but rather "the US has been doing all of the barbaric shit that people have been accusing us of for years". If terrorists want to prep themselves for torture, they already knew what to incorporate before this memo was released.
So in what way is this reckless, even in retarded We Must Torture Or the Terrorists Win land?
The way in which Obama is a Democrat?
I got nothin'.
Not only that, but the new administration is stopping most of those practices on the grounds of being fucking torture. So even if a memo let terrorists know that the CIA used the Pear of Anguish in 2005, and they decided to prepare for it through the 12-step Lexington Steele program, it wouldn't even matter because they wouldn't be subjected to it if they were captured today.
Unless there is something that a) isn't torture, b) isn't widely known, and c) can be prepared for described in the memos then his objection holds no water.
So they can say that Obama failed to keep Americans safe and impeach him if there's another attack. That's why. It's politically motivated, callous, souless bullshit.
You know, something more sophisticated than "hurrr".
I don't understand this statement, weren't those documents released with the idea of "We aren't doing that anymore!"?
Since when? It's all you should be scared bullshit and always has been.
FUCK you Bush. I hope you rot in hell.
No, see, outrage is always cumulative, even when the effects of the separate events leading to each instance of outrage aren't.
The mathematics of knee-jerk and masturbatory outrage are very complicated, but I try to explain them to the common man in my new book, Fuck You, Cloud!
Yeah, that was the one that hit me hardest, too. It helps that I have a wife who suffers from panic disorder and has some pretty deep-seated phobias. I think deliberately exploiting that sort of thing is easily worse than whatever physical discomfort results from waterboarding.
I was especially pissed by the willful obfuscation inherent in saying they would make sure "no reasonable person" would think they stood a chance of serious harm from the stinging insect. Phobias are inherently unreasonable, you cuntbiscuits - the person is potentially going to be terrified to the point of permanent psychological damage no matter what fucking bug you lock in with them.
That said, my understanding is that certain officials wanted to do this, but that they weren't given the go-ahead. Is that accurate?
It reads to me that they were given the go ahead as long as the insect in question was not stinging but they did not have to tell the prisoner that.
As per Time:
Well, small blessings I guess.
I mean, Jesus.
I like to go with the "banal evil" route here instead of anything more overt.
Bah, beat'd by Rust.