The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.

[Chat]num P.I.

ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
edited April 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
«13456733

Posts

  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    MrMister wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    I am often dissatisfied with people's working use of the term 'rationality.'

    Everyone has their own.

    I don't like the caricatures people draw whereby rational behavior is supposedly the same as being a robot from 50s science fiction. If you just consider the case of instrumental rationality, aka choosing means appropriate to bringing about your ends, then there's nothing in the concept that precludes you from acting on values which include emotional content, and etcetera.

    I don't like it because it invariably gets reduced automatically by almost everybody who hears the term in any context as "we think with a singular course, like the lines on a page"

    Take "train of thought" as an example.

    A steady step after the other, thought building upon more thoughts.

    It's an academic construct. I've never seen a research report in cognitive that affirmed our brains and minds are set up in such a logical step by step way when we make decisions, judgements or act upon what we believe.
    To me we appear to be a hugely parrallel system that arrives at a thought in a roundabout way. Without a context within which to put a thought, I doubt people truly understand the basis behind their "thinking".

    So much of philosophy to me is basically philosophers studying how philosophers think, not how everyday people think.

    Kind of ironic.

    DAMMIT I JUST FINISHED THIS SO EAT IT NEW THREAD EAT THIS ARGUMENT HAHAHAHAHA

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Hello.

    James on
  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Hey I'm not at work and can watch a [chat] video.

    And I approve!

    Nocturne on
  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    James, I got some new addons, but I will be joining you in WoW shortly.

    Hi I'm Vee! on
    vRyue2p.png
  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Also, get in Vent. I know you can't talk, but it's easier for me to communicate with you that way.

    Hi I'm Vee! on
    vRyue2p.png
  • ResRes __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2009
    neuroticism_by_state.jpg

    I'm calling bullshit on Cali.

    Res on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • edited April 2009
    This content has been removed.

  • BobCescaBobCesca Is a girl Birmingham, UKRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    my fingers still aren't working right. this is annoying.

    BobCesca on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    There are three guys sharing a bed next to me.

    There is a second bed available.

    This is going to be an interesting bachelor party.

    Incenjucar on
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    MrMister wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    I am often dissatisfied with people's working use of the term 'rationality.'

    Everyone has their own.

    I don't like the caricatures people draw whereby rational behavior is supposedly the same as being a robot from 50s science fiction. If you just consider the case of instrumental rationality, aka choosing means appropriate to bringing about your ends, then there's nothing in the concept that precludes you from acting on values which include emotional content, and etcetera.

    I don't like it because it invariably gets reduced automatically by almost everybody who hears the term in any context as "we think with a singular course, like the lines on a page"

    Take "train of thought" as an example.

    A steady step after the other, thought building upon more thoughts.

    It's an academic construct. I've never seen a research report in cognitive that affirmed our brains and minds are set up in such a logical step by step way when we make decisions, judgements or act upon what we believe.
    To me we appear to be a hugely parrallel system that arrives at a thought in a roundabout way. Without a context within which to put a thought, I doubt people truly understand the basis behind their "thinking".

    So much of philosophy to me is basically philosophers studying how philosophers think, not how everyday people think.

    Kind of ironic.

    DAMMIT I JUST FINISHED THIS SO EAT IT NEW THREAD EAT THIS ARGUMENT HAHAHAHAHA

    Can I still call people who are acting on emotion alone irrational?

    Rational to me means weighing it against real pros and cons, trying to act in the most objectively beneficial situation.

    It's not so easy to talk in such abstract terms in a way to cover any possible scenario ever, but generally speaking, "acting rational" is a behavior that emphases practical solutions rather than strictly personal/emotional ones.

    JamesKeenan on
  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    So this isn't meant to start a full-on drug discussion at all, but out of curiousity, does anyone else find it a little fucked up that in the US marijuana is Schedule I (along with heroin) while Cocaine is Schedule II (along with Adderall that we prescribe children with ADD)?

    Obviously there are a great number of things that could use reform when it comes to how we handle drugs, which is why I said I don't want to go on a full tangent about it, but even the basic listing of these things is outright laughable.

    Nocturne on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    look i know a bunch of you dudes look upon SE++ as a wretched hive of scum and villainy

    but there is a very special thread going on there right now called Desert Quest

    start at the first post and just follow it

    it is amazing, especially when ChicoBlue takes over

    Pony on
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Nocturne wrote: »
    So this isn't meant to start a full-on drug discussion at all, but out of curiousity, does anyone else find it a little fucked up that in the US marijuana is Schedule I (along with heroin) while Cocaine is Schedule II (along with Adderall that we prescribe children with ADD)?

    Obviously there are a great number of things that could use reform when it comes to how we handle drugs, which is why I said I don't want to go on a full tangent about it, but even the basic listing of these things is outright laughable.

    Yeah, sometimes I worry about falling into a stereotype given that marijuana is one of my top "pet" issues.

    But the laws are just so fucking irrational. Retarded. Balls to the wall apeshit eating retared. The illegality and ignorant way with which the drug is treated causes so much more harm than the drug itself.

    Economy, war, etc. Bigger issues in scale, but at least there is reasonable debate usually concerning those. Marijuana laws were written in fucking crayon or something.

    JamesKeenan on
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    MrMister wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    I am often dissatisfied with people's working use of the term 'rationality.'

    Everyone has their own.

    I don't like the caricatures people draw whereby rational behavior is supposedly the same as being a robot from 50s science fiction. If you just consider the case of instrumental rationality, aka choosing means appropriate to bringing about your ends, then there's nothing in the concept that precludes you from acting on values which include emotional content, and etcetera.

    I don't like it because it invariably gets reduced automatically by almost everybody who hears the term in any context as "we think with a singular course, like the lines on a page"

    Take "train of thought" as an example.

    A steady step after the other, thought building upon more thoughts.

    It's an academic construct. I've never seen a research report in cognitive that affirmed our brains and minds are set up in such a logical step by step way when we make decisions, judgements or act upon what we believe.
    To me we appear to be a hugely parrallel system that arrives at a thought in a roundabout way. Without a context within which to put a thought, I doubt people truly understand the basis behind their "thinking".

    So much of philosophy to me is basically philosophers studying how philosophers think, not how everyday people think.

    Kind of ironic.

    DAMMIT I JUST FINISHED THIS SO EAT IT NEW THREAD EAT THIS ARGUMENT HAHAHAHAHA

    Can I still call people who are acting on emotion alone irrational?

    Rational to me means weighing it against real pros and cons, trying to act in the most objectively beneficial situation.

    It's not so easy to talk in such abstract terms in a way to cover any possible scenario ever, but generally speaking, "acting rational" is a behavior that emphases practical solutions rather than strictly personal/emotional ones.

    Only to you. MrMister would completely disagree with you.

    You'd be advised to give up the notion that you are referring to something higher than a moral call.

    But moral calls and judgements are what underpin all of society, so I don't know why you need to make a higher call to some mythical purely objective thought world when insulting someone.

    I also don't see that the ideal of rationality is more important than emotional ideals in all situations. You can be intelligent about emotion.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Only to you. MrMister would completely disagree with you.

    You'd be advised to give up the notion that you are referring to something higher than a moral call.

    But moral calls and judgements are what underpin all of society, so I don't know why you need to make a higher call to some mythical purely objective thought world when insulting someone.

    I also don't see that the ideal of rationality is more important than emotional ideals in all situations. You can be intelligent about emotion.


    Yeah, I don't mean to pass judgment. It's only in my personal experience that lending your actions and motives too highly to emotion, even for good reasons, leads to negative outcomes.

    I'm not taking a "high ground" or trying to create some kind of robotic civilization of unfeeling automatons.

    It's just that in my own observation, acting too emotively causes problems, period.

    JamesKeenan on
  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Nocturne wrote: »
    So this isn't meant to start a full-on drug discussion at all, but out of curiousity, does anyone else find it a little fucked up that in the US marijuana is Schedule I (along with heroin) while Cocaine is Schedule II (along with Adderall that we prescribe children with ADD)?

    Obviously there are a great number of things that could use reform when it comes to how we handle drugs, which is why I said I don't want to go on a full tangent about it, but even the basic listing of these things is outright laughable.

    Yeah, sometimes I worry about falling into a stereotype given that marijuana is one of my top "pet" issues.

    But the laws are just so fucking irrational. Retarded. Balls to the wall apeshit eating retared. The illegality and ignorant way with which the drug is treated causes so much more harm than the drug itself.

    Economy, war, etc. Bigger issues in scale, but at least there is reasonable debate usually concerning those. Marijuana laws were written in fucking crayon or something.

    Oh I don't care about falling into a stereotype. I will make my feelings known. I'm all about the responsible recreational use of drugs.

    I'm just too lazy to get up in arms about much on these forums anymore.

    Also I think I've become addicted to Phalla quite a bit lately.

    *snicker*

    Nocturne on
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Only to you. MrMister would completely disagree with you.

    You'd be advised to give up the notion that you are referring to something higher than a moral call.

    But moral calls and judgements are what underpin all of society, so I don't know why you need to make a higher call to some mythical purely objective thought world when insulting someone.

    I also don't see that the ideal of rationality is more important than emotional ideals in all situations. You can be intelligent about emotion.


    Yeah, I don't mean to pass judgment. It's only in my personal experience that lending your actions and motives too highly to emotion, even for good reasons, leads to negative outcomes.

    I'm not taking a "high ground" or trying to create some kind of robotic civilization of unfeeling automatons.

    It's just that in my own observation, acting too emotively causes problems, period.

    Strictly speaking that is merely avoiding emotional experiences because they are difficult to handle.

    I would say that teaching how to be intelligent about emotion, as in how to deal with them, would be a lot more useful than what you are advising.

    Which is basically the "don't have sex" sex education logic applied to emotion.

    Get it?

    It enforces that they are unassailable, purely subjective constructs, where you want to deconstruct them so that simply applying an emotion to something is not a valid excuse to bar logical discourse.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm going to try to get a scrip for medical marijuana for chronic migraines.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    And interestingly enough, just pure THC (like Marinol) is Schedule III, two whole steps below the herb itself.

    Nocturne on
  • yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    So I'm watching TV and a beer commercial came on.

    A couple is showing some friends their new house. The woman shows the other women the bedroom and opens the closet, and they all start squealing over shoes and clothes and jewelry and the like, then hear other squealing.

    And we cut to the guys squealing over bottles upon bottles of most likely shitty beer in a giant walk-in fridge of the same size and shape as the closet.

    ...I suspect it actively reduced my intelligence to watch that commercial.

    yalborap on
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    It's kind of similar to this review I'm failing to work on right now because all I can do is output shit and learning new stuff is giving me a headache. (I think I may have caught a cold)

    In it we need to justify every decision we made using a carefully designed methodology. So if we choose one thing over another, for example, we must outline why. In essence it is a system to ensure reviewing a field is not subject to "lol opinion" defenses because it lays out our biases right there on the paper. Thus you can logically criticise them.

    I would read philosophy papers if they were also forced to do this.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    You know if you work at a pizza joint or some fast food place and find yourself bored with nothing to do, go fuck in the bathroom, don't mess with the food. GOD.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvKR22K4SE4

    Then again, it's DOMINOS, so it's not like anything could make the food taste worse.

    LOOK AT THE CAMERA DAMMIT

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    VH and James, regular D&D server? I may be in and out messing with UI

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • edited April 2009
    This content has been removed.

  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    So I'm watching TV and a beer commercial came on.

    A couple is showing some friends their new house. The woman shows the other women the bedroom and opens the closet, and they all start squealing over shoes and clothes and jewelry and the like, then hear other squealing.

    And we cut to the guys squealing over bottles upon bottles of most likely shitty beer in a giant walk-in fridge of the same size and shape as the closet.

    ...I suspect it actively reduced my intelligence to watch that commercial.

    one of the guys makes me laugh hard in that but it's a fairly dumb commercial. I didn't think it was worse than your average beer commercial though, honestly. I've seen it a bunch, maybe I just got over it because I've seen it so much.

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Strictly speaking that is merely avoiding emotional experiences because they are difficult to handle.

    I would say that teaching how to be intelligent about emotion, as in how to deal with them, would be a lot more useful than what you are advising.

    Which is basically the "don't have sex" sex education logic applied to emotion.

    Get it?

    It enforces that they are unassailable, purely subjective constructs, where you want to deconstruct them so that simply applying an emotion to something is not a valid excuse to bar logical discourse.

    I can absolutely understand the viewpoint.

    Maybe it is. It's true I'm having trouble thinking of a scenario where acting on affections rather than reason is legitimate. No matter the case, it could always just be said, "Oh, well they weren't acting responsibly with emotion."

    It's kind of like Russel's teapot.

    JamesKeenan on
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm also concerned we may not be arguing the same points.

    I'm not strictly proposing banning or condemning emotions. Not burying them or refusing to act on them personally.

    I'm talking about making decisions with real outside consequences. Like taking a loan out for a new job, or going out driving while angry or getting a kid to save a marriage.

    Those are more extreme examples. Like I said. Nuanced, specific examples aren't coming easy to me.




    I'm not saying that one has to ignore emotions on a personal level. Not at all.

    JamesKeenan on
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Wow, the pirate bay guys got 1 year in jail / 3M USD in damages.

    SanderJK on
    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    SanderJK wrote: »
    Wow, the pirate bay guys got 1 year in jail / 3M USD in damages.

    I guess it could have been worse... Three million though, jesus christ... How much did they actually make?

    JamesKeenan on
  • HaphazardHaphazard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Aloha!

    Haphazard on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    shello haps

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • HaphazardHaphazard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Work is slowly killing me! :D

    Which does weird things to my brain...

    Haphazard on
  • edited April 2009
    This content has been removed.

  • HaphazardHaphazard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    SanderJK wrote: »
    Wow, the pirate bay guys got 1 year in jail / 3M USD in damages.

    I guess it could have been worse... Three million though, jesus christ... How much did they actually make?
    I don't get it, can they do either or are they being done on both?

    Both, I guess.

    Haphazard on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited April 2009
    What the hell is the 420 thread about? I mean, I get that it's about dope, but what's the '420' reference? I dislike pop-culture references eluding me, as it only reinforces my sense of old-fogeydom

    Bogart on
  • HaphazardHaphazard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Bogart wrote: »
    What the hell is the 420 thread about? I mean, I get that it's about dope, but what's the '420' reference? I dislike pop-culture references eluding me, as it only reinforces my sense of old-fogeydom

    Must be something American, cause a 420 party would be frowned upon over here.

    Haphazard on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Bogart wrote: »
    What the hell is the 420 thread about? I mean, I get that it's about dope, but what's the '420' reference? I dislike pop-culture references eluding me, as it only reinforces my sense of old-fogeydom

    you know that site "Let me Google that for you"

    there needs to be a "Let me Wikipedia that for you"

    Pony on
  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Bogart wrote: »
    What the hell is the 420 thread about? I mean, I get that it's about dope, but what's the '420' reference? I dislike pop-culture references eluding me, as it only reinforces my sense of old-fogeydom
    http://www.concept420.com/what-is-420.htm

    Hi I'm Vee! on
    vRyue2p.png
  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Dammit, Pony.

    Hi I'm Vee! on
    vRyue2p.png
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited April 2009
    Meh, I sort of prefer to get pop-culture reference definitions from people. Cheers guys.

    Bogart on
This discussion has been closed.