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Carpocalypse Now: And then there was one...

Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
edited May 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only... Walking apparently.

So in the past couple of weeks it's become apparent that things are bad in automobileland.

How bad?

Chrysler is bankrupt. It's a sure thing at this point, and apparently it's worth more to fiat in a bankruptcy court than as a stable entity.

How bad off is Chrysler?
Last month, the Obama administration told Chrysler it would provide up to $6 billion in financing if Chrysler and Fiat could complete a deal by the end of this month. Fiat originally agreed to take 35 percent of Chrysler, but the stake was subsequently reduced to 20 percent. The administration said it would provide up to $6 billion in financing if the two companies agreed, on top of $4 billion in federal assistance that Chrysler has already received.

Now, Fiat isn't actually paying anything for Chrysler. This 6 billion is essentially a gift from the treasury to Fiat in order to pay off creditors, dealers, etc. That's right, Chrysler is worth negative monies. And even so apparently Fiat has turned down this offer, preferring instead to salvage what it wants from a bankruptcy proceeding, thus avoiding having to pick up the tab for retirements, dealer agreements, etc.

But Chysler has been screwed since Daimler bought them and essentially shitcanned their entire R&D department in favor of having them sell rebadged 90's E-class Mercedes and Mitsubishis, so no big surpise here. How's our other troubled company doing?

Nationalized.

Yes, according to the new plan in order to (maybe, possibly) avoid bankruptcy, GM will be converting debt to stock in a deal which will leave the company owned 51% by the government and 38% by the UAW...

Also Saab, Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, they're all gone by the end of the year. Get your G8s and Saturn Skys while they last folks.


So yeah.


Also apparently Toyota lost 7 billion dollars this quarter.If you find it, call up their offices in Tokyo, there's probably a reward of some kind.

As a side note, Toyota finished the first 3 quarters up 3 billion or so, so they've wiped that out and are looking at a loss for the year. This means that somehow they are managing to lose about 2.5 billion a month for the last quarter . GM at its worst was losing about 2.9 billion a month. A Toyota spokesman stated that the company is proud that they are once again on the cusp of overtaking GM in a key industry performance metric.


On the bright side, Ford only lost 1.4 billion in the 1st quarter. In celebration, Ford stocks jumped 15 percent. I'm not kidding.

Jealous Deva on
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Posts

  • Hardleft_335Hardleft_335 Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Dont forget bikes! Burn calories and get places all at the same time... the rain sucks though.

    Hardleft_335 on
  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Wait, SAAB is going down?? Or is that just the U.S. branch?

    Satsumomo on
  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Don't you guys know? Segway is going to replace all other forms of transportation, ambulatory and otherwise.


    ...


    If you think that sounds dumb, remember that several million dollars worth of investors somehow actually believed it.

    Duffel on
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    We have been producing cars no one wants for far too long now anyway. Best we get out and find somthing new to do. We can leave the car making to Japan.

    JebusUD on
    And I won, so you lose,
    Guess it always comes down to.
  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Maybe they'll be able to restructure into something worth running.

    The whole car industry debacle is reminding me more and more of the Terry Schiavo episode.

    MrMonroe on
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    Don't you guys know? Segway is going to replace all other forms of transportation, ambulatory and otherwise.


    ...


    If you think that sounds dumb, remember that several million dollars worth of investors somehow actually believed it.

    a segway would probably be nice if you lived in manhattan, or a similar city. Probably good in a place like portland with lots of pedestrian paths.

    JebusUD on
    And I won, so you lose,
    Guess it always comes down to.
  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    JebusUD wrote: »
    a segway would probably be nice if you lived in manhattan, or a similar city. Probably good in a place like portland with lots of pedestrian paths.
    It's too bad that riding one makes you look like an utter dork.

    Duffel on
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Isn't the real reason we want to keep the car industry because if we get in a war then we have some kind of manufacturing base to turn into war machine factories quickly and easily?

    JebusUD on
    And I won, so you lose,
    Guess it always comes down to.
  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    Don't you guys know? Segway is going to replace all other forms of transportation, ambulatory and otherwise.

    ...

    If you think that sounds dumb, remember that several million dollars worth of investors somehow actually believed it.
    They'll enjoy Houston.

    GungHo on
    "Adios, mofo" -- TX Gov Rick Perry (R)
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    a segway would probably be nice if you lived in manhattan, or a similar city. Probably good in a place like portland with lots of pedestrian paths.
    It's too bad that riding one makes you look like an utter dork.

    That's dumb. That's like the people who don't buy flourecent light bulbs because they "look weird." As if normal lightbulbs looked great or somthing. It is all in your head.

    JebusUD on
    And I won, so you lose,
    Guess it always comes down to.
  • DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I hope the Prius brand doesn't die. Fuck what Jeff Dunham says about them! I want one someday! T-they're nice cars!

    Dashui on
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  • FarseerBaradasFarseerBaradas Registered User
    edited April 2009
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Isn't the real reason we want to keep the car industry because if we get in a war then we have some kind of manufacturing base to turn into war machine factories quickly and easily?

    It doesn't work that way anymore.

    Tanks and cars used to be similar enough to switch, but that was also when we mainly used human labor.

    Now we have a tank that uses a fucking jet engine, so you can't switch between the two.

    FarseerBaradas on
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  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    JebusUD wrote: »
    That's dumb. That's like the people who don't buy flourecent light bulbs because they "look weird." As if normal lightbulbs looked great or somthing. It is all in your head.
    People don't like flourescent light bulbs because light from flourescent bulbs is harsh and glaring unless it's heavily shaded/filtered. People don't like segway because it costs a bigass chunk of money and is totally pointless. If it nearby, walk. If it's too far to walk, ride a bus/taxi/subway or drive. And if you don't think standing on a little buzzing platform, leaning slightly forward and, depending on the jurisdiction, wearing a bike helmet looks dorky, then I'm kind of curious as to what does.

    But, so as not to derail the thread, I noticed that other than Toyota most of the Japanese manufacturers apparently aren't as bad off. If all the manufacturers in the US go bust I guess we'll just all be driving Japanese here in a few years.

    Duffel on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    That's dumb. That's like the people who don't buy flourecent light bulbs because they "look weird." As if normal lightbulbs looked great or somthing. It is all in your head.
    People don't like flourescent light bulbs because light from flourescent bulbs is harsh and glaring unless it's heavily shaded/filtered. People don't like segway because it costs a bigass chunk of money and is totally pointless. If it nearby, walk. If it's too far to walk, ride a bus/taxi/subway or drive. And if you don't think standing on a little buzzing platform, leaning slightly forward and, depending on the jurisdiction, wearing a bike helmet looks dorky, then I'm kind of curious as to what does.

    But, so as not to derail the thread, I noticed that other than Toyota most of the Japanese manufacturers apparently aren't as bad off. If all the manufacturers in the US go bust I guess we'll just all be driving Japanese here in a few years.


    I think Korean is the better bet right now.

    Jealous Deva on
  • EmanonEmanon __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2009
    I remember looking at buying a Solstice then I saw one up close :| I won't miss Pontiac. GM should just make production a Mach 5.

    Emanon on
    Treats Animals Right!
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    The Sky is absolutely the better looking vehicle in my opinion. The problem with both cars is that they are priced about $10k under what they really should be to be profitable, they should have polished them up a bit, improved the interior, suspension, etc, and sold them as a Caddy.

    Jealous Deva on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    See, and I always Saturn was one of the less-retarded domestic brands. I'm surprised they're being let go; I thought most Saturn owners were pretty satisfied.

    ElJeffe on
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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    They haven't made a profit as a division in 10 years, and anything out as a saturn is availible in another brand. Same with Pontiac aside from the G8.

    So in both brands combined the only 'unique' products are the Solstice/Sky and G8. Both of which are low-profit niche vehicles. It's not really hard to see why they chose those two brands to go.

    GMC is also a rebadge brand but it still makes money hand over fist so they aren't dumping it right away, I wouldn't be surprised to see it phased out over the next few years, though.


    The trick for GM, and the one they will fail miserably at, is convincing the Saturn consumer base that the Vue was an Equinox and the Aura was a Malibu the whole time. I think a lot of people are going to be lost in the translation, because a lot of people bought Saturns and Pontiacs specifically because for whatever reason they didn't want a Chevy.

    Jealous Deva on
  • RingoRingo Out of things to say Heartbreak HillRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    See, I'm not the only one who was thoroughly convinced by the recent Saturn commercials!

    Ringo on
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  • Hardleft_335Hardleft_335 Registered User
    edited April 2009
    I dont know very much about the car industry (other than my parents Ford broke down 4 times in 6 months and since then they've only bought Honda civics), but it does seem like a terrible loss to have such a large industry go down the tubes. All the jobs that will dissapear, American commerce that will be exported to Japan, etc.

    Perhaps some U.S. company will figure out a better battery or something and start a new American car company?

    Hardleft_335 on
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    See, and I always Saturn was one of the less-retarded domestic brands. I'm surprised they're being let go; I thought most Saturn owners were pretty satisfied.
    Yeah, my mom was pretty happy with hers.

    Quid on
  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    See, and I always Saturn was one of the less-retarded domestic brands. I'm surprised they're being let go; I thought most Saturn owners were pretty satisfied.

    Couldn't ever turn a profit. They sold well per dealerships but since they had a no-haggle price model they shot themselves in the foot by giving dealers claim to larger areas. Where there would be 1 Saturn dealership there would be 2, 3 or even 4 of a competitor.

    Gooey on
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  • 1ddqd1ddqd Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Saturn owners are always very satisfied - I've yet to find one in person that hates their car.

    Ford? Chevy? GMC? Mercury? Know PLENTY of people who hate their cars.

    The problem is the 5-year maintenance turnover - every American car I've come into contact with has had over $3000 in failures within 5 years of its manufacture. Drive, kill, buy new is a dangerous cycle, especially when the maintenance span is so short.

    1ddqd on
  • CrayonCrayon Sleeps in the wrong bed. TejasRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    If this all happens I bet Chevron and BP will step in and start producing cars.

    Crayon on
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  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Kind of glad I work for Honda right about now.

    Ugh, terrible totp. Uhh... I drive a Saturn. Isn't that ironic ololol?

    VeritasVR on
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  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    Kind of glad I work for Honda right about now.

    Ugh, terrible totp. Uhh... I drive a Saturn. Isn't that ironic ololol?

    Hasn't Honda asked for some pre-emptive loans from the Japanese government?

    Gooey on
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  • Bad KittyBad Kitty Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    My Saturn station wagon saved my life when I got into a car accident, so I have some affection for the brand. I think the sky roadster looks very nice and sexy, but it doesn't fit into the whole economy branding they were going for. Also remember how cultish they were 10 years ago, inviting you to bar-b-ques with fellow Saturn owners.

    Bad Kitty on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Gooey wrote: »
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    Kind of glad I work for Honda right about now.

    Ugh, terrible totp. Uhh... I drive a Saturn. Isn't that ironic ololol?

    Hasn't Honda asked for some pre-emptive loans from the Japanese government?

    They killed off the S2000 replacement and dropped out of their racing commitments, and lost about 2 billion dollars give or take in October-December.

    They haven't released last quarter numbers yet, but I wouldn't look for them to be good.

    Jealous Deva on
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Bad Kitty wrote: »
    My Saturn station wagon saved my life when I got into a car accident, so I have some affection for the brand. I think the sky roadster looks very nice and sexy, but it doesn't fit into the whole economy branding they were going for. Also remember how cultish they were 10 years ago, inviting you to bar-b-ques with fellow Saturn owners.
    That was when they were at their most awesome.

    Quid on
  • stawkstawk Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Also Saab, Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, they're all gone by the end of the year. Get your G8s and Saturn Skys while they last folks.

    but what about vauxhall and opel?

    stawk on
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Wait, people buy cars new?

    Cantido on
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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    stawk wrote: »
    Also Saab, Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, they're all gone by the end of the year. Get your G8s and Saturn Skys while they last folks.

    but what about vauxhall and opel?

    No word, but the german government is pushing for GM to sell Opel to a German owner.

    Jealous Deva on
  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    stawk wrote: »
    Also Saab, Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, they're all gone by the end of the year. Get your G8s and Saturn Skys while they last folks.

    but what about vauxhall and opel?

    Vauxhall/Opel cars sell very well down here under the Chevrolet badge.

    I still want to know if SAAB is dying internationally or just in the US :(

    Satsumomo on
  • JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Cantido wrote: »
    Wait, people buy cars new?


    i thought the just made used cars o_O

    also, yay ford!

    Joolander on
  • stawkstawk Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Satsumomo wrote: »
    stawk wrote: »
    Also Saab, Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, they're all gone by the end of the year. Get your G8s and Saturn Skys while they last folks.

    but what about vauxhall and opel?

    Vauxhall/Opel cars sell very well down here under the Chevrolet badge.

    I still want to know if SAAB is dying internationally or just in the US :(

    pontiac g8= vauxhall vxr8

    stawk on
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Joolander wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    Wait, people buy cars new?


    i thought the just made used cars o_O

    also, yay ford!

    If they don't, they'd better get on that shit. Who the fuck buys a new car???

    Cantido on
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  • JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    actually, i do

    but then i got it for a used car price
    because im jewish, you see

    Joolander on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Joolander wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    Wait, people buy cars new?


    i thought the just made used cars o_O

    also, yay ford!



    Ford is going to be in good shape if they can make it through, I think they are going to end up getting a lot of spillover from GM's customers.

    Their product line is actually pretty good now and will only get better when the Fiesta, Ka, euroFocus, etc come over to America.

    I would still like for there to be some credible American sports car maker, though, and the Mustang aside Ford just doesn't have anything credible in that area. And with GM killing the roadsters and G8 it's not looking very good there either.


    Edit: Also, I forgot to mention the main problem I have with Ford.

    This is the Mondeo (Ford European midsize):

    800px-Ford_Mondeo_4.Generation_Flie%C3%9Fheck_front.JPG


    This is the Ford Fusion (Ford US midsize):

    800px-2010_Ford_Fusion_Sport--DC.jpg



    What the fuck, Ford? What the fuck?

    Jealous Deva on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm not seeing the problem. :\

    MKR on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    MKR wrote: »
    I'm not seeing the problem. :\

    I guess it's just one of those love/hate things.

    The latest US Fords and Lincolns just look bizzare to me and the European designs look much better.

    Jealous Deva on
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