The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Carpocalypse Now: And then there was one...
Jealous Deva
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only... Walking apparently.
So in the past couple of weeks it's become apparent that things are bad in automobileland.
How bad?
Chrysler is bankrupt. It's a sure thing at this point, and apparently it's worth more to fiat in a bankruptcy court than as a stable entity.
How bad off is Chrysler?
Now, Fiat isn't actually paying anything for Chrysler. This 6 billion is essentially a gift from the treasury to Fiat in order to pay off creditors, dealers, etc. That's right, Chrysler is worth negative monies. And even so apparently Fiat has turned down this offer, preferring instead to salvage what it wants from a bankruptcy proceeding, thus avoiding having to pick up the tab for retirements, dealer agreements, etc.
But Chysler has been screwed since Daimler bought them and essentially shitcanned their entire R&D department in favor of having them sell rebadged 90's E-class Mercedes and Mitsubishis, so no big surpise here. How's our other troubled company doing?
Nationalized.
Yes, according to the new plan in order to (maybe, possibly) avoid bankruptcy, GM will be converting debt to stock in a deal which will leave the company owned 51% by the government and 38% by the UAW...
Also Saab, Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, they're all gone by the end of the year. Get your G8s and Saturn Skys while they last folks.
So yeah.
Also apparently Toyota lost 7 billion dollars this quarter.If you find it, call up their offices in Tokyo, there's probably a reward of some kind.
As a side note, Toyota finished the first 3 quarters up 3 billion or so, so they've wiped that out and are looking at a loss for the year. This means that somehow they are managing to lose about 2.5 billion a month for the last quarter . GM at its worst was losing about 2.9 billion a month. A Toyota spokesman stated that the company is proud that they are once again on the cusp of overtaking GM in a key industry performance metric.
On the bright side, Ford only lost 1.4 billion in the 1st quarter. In celebration, Ford stocks jumped 15 percent. I'm not kidding.
So in the past couple of weeks it's become apparent that things are bad in automobileland.
How bad?
Chrysler is bankrupt. It's a sure thing at this point, and apparently it's worth more to fiat in a bankruptcy court than as a stable entity.
How bad off is Chrysler?
Last month, the Obama administration told Chrysler it would provide up to $6 billion in financing if Chrysler and Fiat could complete a deal by the end of this month. Fiat originally agreed to take 35 percent of Chrysler, but the stake was subsequently reduced to 20 percent. The administration said it would provide up to $6 billion in financing if the two companies agreed, on top of $4 billion in federal assistance that Chrysler has already received.
Now, Fiat isn't actually paying anything for Chrysler. This 6 billion is essentially a gift from the treasury to Fiat in order to pay off creditors, dealers, etc. That's right, Chrysler is worth negative monies. And even so apparently Fiat has turned down this offer, preferring instead to salvage what it wants from a bankruptcy proceeding, thus avoiding having to pick up the tab for retirements, dealer agreements, etc.
But Chysler has been screwed since Daimler bought them and essentially shitcanned their entire R&D department in favor of having them sell rebadged 90's E-class Mercedes and Mitsubishis, so no big surpise here. How's our other troubled company doing?
Nationalized.
Yes, according to the new plan in order to (maybe, possibly) avoid bankruptcy, GM will be converting debt to stock in a deal which will leave the company owned 51% by the government and 38% by the UAW...
Also Saab, Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, they're all gone by the end of the year. Get your G8s and Saturn Skys while they last folks.
So yeah.
Also apparently Toyota lost 7 billion dollars this quarter.If you find it, call up their offices in Tokyo, there's probably a reward of some kind.
As a side note, Toyota finished the first 3 quarters up 3 billion or so, so they've wiped that out and are looking at a loss for the year. This means that somehow they are managing to lose about 2.5 billion a month for the last quarter . GM at its worst was losing about 2.9 billion a month. A Toyota spokesman stated that the company is proud that they are once again on the cusp of overtaking GM in a key industry performance metric.
On the bright side, Ford only lost 1.4 billion in the 1st quarter. In celebration, Ford stocks jumped 15 percent. I'm not kidding.
Jealous Deva on
0
Posts
...
If you think that sounds dumb, remember that several million dollars worth of investors somehow actually believed it.
but they're listening to every word I say
The whole car industry debacle is reminding me more and more of the Terry Schiavo episode.
a segway would probably be nice if you lived in manhattan, or a similar city. Probably good in a place like portland with lots of pedestrian paths.
but they're listening to every word I say
but they're listening to every word I say
That's dumb. That's like the people who don't buy flourecent light bulbs because they "look weird." As if normal lightbulbs looked great or somthing. It is all in your head.
but they're listening to every word I say
It doesn't work that way anymore.
Tanks and cars used to be similar enough to switch, but that was also when we mainly used human labor.
Now we have a tank that uses a fucking jet engine, so you can't switch between the two.
But, so as not to derail the thread, I noticed that other than Toyota most of the Japanese manufacturers apparently aren't as bad off. If all the manufacturers in the US go bust I guess we'll just all be driving Japanese here in a few years.
I think Korean is the better bet right now.
So in both brands combined the only 'unique' products are the Solstice/Sky and G8. Both of which are low-profit niche vehicles. It's not really hard to see why they chose those two brands to go.
GMC is also a rebadge brand but it still makes money hand over fist so they aren't dumping it right away, I wouldn't be surprised to see it phased out over the next few years, though.
The trick for GM, and the one they will fail miserably at, is convincing the Saturn consumer base that the Vue was an Equinox and the Aura was a Malibu the whole time. I think a lot of people are going to be lost in the translation, because a lot of people bought Saturns and Pontiacs specifically because for whatever reason they didn't want a Chevy.
Perhaps some U.S. company will figure out a better battery or something and start a new American car company?
Couldn't ever turn a profit. They sold well per dealerships but since they had a no-haggle price model they shot themselves in the foot by giving dealers claim to larger areas. Where there would be 1 Saturn dealership there would be 2, 3 or even 4 of a competitor.
Ford? Chevy? GMC? Mercury? Know PLENTY of people who hate their cars.
The problem is the 5-year maintenance turnover - every American car I've come into contact with has had over $3000 in failures within 5 years of its manufacture. Drive, kill, buy new is a dangerous cycle, especially when the maintenance span is so short.
Ugh, terrible totp. Uhh... I drive a Saturn. Isn't that ironic ololol?
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Hasn't Honda asked for some pre-emptive loans from the Japanese government?
They killed off the S2000 replacement and dropped out of their racing commitments, and lost about 2 billion dollars give or take in October-December.
They haven't released last quarter numbers yet, but I wouldn't look for them to be good.
but what about vauxhall and opel?
No word, but the german government is pushing for GM to sell Opel to a German owner.
Vauxhall/Opel cars sell very well down here under the Chevrolet badge.
I still want to know if SAAB is dying internationally or just in the US
i thought the just made used cars o_O
pontiac g8= vauxhall vxr8
If they don't, they'd better get on that shit. Who the fuck buys a new car???
but then i got it for a used car price
Ford is going to be in good shape if they can make it through, I think they are going to end up getting a lot of spillover from GM's customers.
Their product line is actually pretty good now and will only get better when the Fiesta, Ka, euroFocus, etc come over to America.
I would still like for there to be some credible American sports car maker, though, and the Mustang aside Ford just doesn't have anything credible in that area. And with GM killing the roadsters and G8 it's not looking very good there either.
Edit: Also, I forgot to mention the main problem I have with Ford.
This is the Mondeo (Ford European midsize):
This is the Ford Fusion (Ford US midsize):
What the fuck, Ford? What the fuck?
I guess it's just one of those love/hate things.
The latest US Fords and Lincolns just look bizzare to me and the European designs look much better.