I've just seen that formula used one too many times in games/movies/etc. It's like the writers are proudly thumping their chests and letting the world know that they, too, have read "The Hero with a 1,000 Faces".
At the same time, I hope that, if the apprentice is the main character, that they don't make her a Mary Sue character. "I'm like a female Garrett! But better in every way and with no flaws whatsoever!"
Ah, in TDS the other night, I knocked over the Hammerite Cathedral. It felt good to steal from the Hammerites again.
If you end up playing the aprentice, Garett should stay alive and start as the tutorial guy, and later become the narriator/Greek chorus for the game.
If they are planning to have choice and consequence in the new Thief game (which I kinda think is one of the main things that guy meant by RPG elements) it would be fun to hear him give his opionions on your actions...
The fire elementals were there if you turned the difficulty up to the highest setting. However, as you said, I played this on Thief Gold, so there could be a difference.
My only problem was that fire elementals in the Bonehoard, a haunted crypt, didn't make much sense to me. More Hammer haunts? Yeah, makes total sense. Suddenly, there are Fire Elementals? WTF? Did the original architects dig too deep and breach a tunnel to the Lost City?
Yeah, in TDP, there was no fire elementals until The Lost City. Played every stage at Expert difficulty.
And only one Hammer Haunt, which was creepy as hell, but easy to get around. First one I actually had to face was in that one mansion in the city on the way to the haunted cathedral. And there was two or three in there
By fire elementals, we mean the guys walking around on fire. At any rate, the reason one was added in the Bonehoard was so that you couldn't get stuck without Fire Arrows to complete the puzzle where you had to like the torches. Every time you 'kill' the fire elemental guy, he leaves a Fire Arrow and if you wait around a while, he comes back.
Hm. They must have changed that a lot then. Fire elementals for me were these glowing firey orbs which you took out with a single water arrow - they didn't drop anything. And I don't recall there ever being someone walking around on fire.
Come to think of it, I think those guys *were* only in Thief Gold. They were added specifically in spots where you could get completely stuck without fire arrows. There was another one of them added in The Haunted Cathedral... though I don't remember off hand where in the Old Quarter you could get stuck without Fire Arrows really. But yeah, basically kind of a normal servant model shape, just completely on fire.
And yes, the floating balls of fucking fire are still in their normal places as well.
Heh, sounds like someone didn't have fun over in the Lost City.
Don't worry, it gets better with Thief 2.
The Mechanists clean house in the Lost City after they set up shop.
If they are planning to have choice and consequence in the new Thief game (which I kinda think is one of the main things that guy meant by RPG elements) it would be fun to hear him give his opionions on your actions...
That'd be interesting. A reactive environment where if you start piling up the bodies and making a bloody mess of things, security increases all over the city, Ward sherrifs (like Ramirez) start putting hits on you, and Garrett pretty much treats you like the idiot you are.
It will be interesting to see how they treat the Blackjack. Im thinking they might go the MGS route where you can knockout/sleep enemies for a limited time and they can be woken up by allies.
Plus it really sucks when you knock out a guard and another one finds him and automatically assumes he's dead. At least have the guard check his breathing and then wake him up. The guards in MGS are smart enough to call for backup when they get CQC'd by Snake
That'd be interesting. A reactive environment where if you start piling up the bodies and making a bloody mess of things, security increases all over the city, Ward sherrifs (like Ramirez) start putting hits on you, and Garrett pretty much treats you like the idiot you are.
And everybody realizes how useful putting a bit more metal on the back of their helmets is at preventing loss of consciousness.
That'd be interesting. A reactive environment where if you start piling up the bodies and making a bloody mess of things, security increases all over the city, Ward sherrifs (like Ramirez) start putting hits on you, and Garrett pretty much treats you like the idiot you are.
And everybody realizes how useful putting a bit more metal on the back of their helmets is at preventing loss of consciousness.
If they're going reactive to that degree, I demand the ability to take two of the guards, knock them out, lay one on top of the other, pour a bunch of wine all over them, and then be able to watch hilarity ensue when they wake up.
That'd be interesting. A reactive environment where if you start piling up the bodies and making a bloody mess of things, security increases all over the city, Ward sherrifs (like Ramirez) start putting hits on you, and Garrett pretty much treats you like the idiot you are.
And everybody realizes how useful putting a bit more metal on the back of their helmets is at preventing loss of consciousness.
Like in Thief 2, when you went to knock out a weird looking Mechanist or city watchman, and as soon as you brought the Blackjack down there was this loud "clang", and that fucker turned around to see you standing there looking all stupid and surprised.
"Er, you weren't supposed to be wearing a goddamn bucket on your head."
Oh, another gripe about TDS
So am I the only person who thought the whole "drop a giant gear on some Pagans" bit in the Jacknall's Paw level was a bit much? It surprised me to hear Garrett muse that "someone could have an accident", in a way that made it sound like he wouldn't be adverse to dropping the gear on said pagans. And here I thought Garrett wasn't a bloodthirsty bastard.
I just got to the Lost City. Fuck those Mechanist cameras. Is there any way to shut them down there?
I recall a couple of switches, but that part, for me, involved lots of running into and out of the range of cameras. Good thing is, they only detect the presence of enemies, so you can sneak up on a guard, knock him out in view of the camera, run out before setting it off, wait for it to cool down, run back again, pick up the guard, and hide him where you will.
**Wait a minute, you don't have to use 3rd person in T:DS? On the xbox version?
that's why i never got past mission 2
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Uh. Yeah. You pressed the select button.
I played it for the first time on XBox, all in first person.
Heh, sounds like someone didn't have fun over in the Lost City.
Don't worry, it gets better with Thief 2.
The Mechanists clean house in the Lost City after they set up shop.
Oh I'm quite familiar with all three Thiefs. The fireballs are just rather annoying, bringing their light with them, destroying my hiding places.
I feel your pain.
The glowing green balls of light in the second half of "Trail of Blood" were also pain in the ass, because you couldn't put them out with a water arrow.
You'd be hiding in a precarious "safe" spot, surrounded on all sides by ape-men, wondering what the fuck to do for your next move, preferably a move that doesn't involve you alerting every damn ape-man in the Maw to your presence, and then you'd hear that little musical tinkling sound and that little fucking ball of green light merrily floats on by, turning your shadowy spot into an exhibit on "How Garrett Fucked Up", and then the shit hits the fan.
and then you'd hear that little musical tinkling sound and that little fucking ball of green light merrily floats on by, turning your shadowy spot into an exhibit on "How Garrett Fucked Up"
Was the MA Lost City the one you got to on a Mechanist submarine? I think that whole section was one of the least memorable parts of the first two Thief games.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
When most people think "The Lost City," they think of the one from the first game.
It was the one that you got to on the sub in the second game, though. The mission to get into the sub itself was kinda "meh," but I enjoyed the portion in the City proper.
It's one of my favorite levels in the series, though I didn't like it as much the second time around. Bonehoard is great as well. Damn, just thinking about these levels is making me want to replay Thief 1 again, much moreso than any other.
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All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
I don't really remember liking what they did to The Lost City in Thief Gold.
I don't really remember liking what they did to The Lost City in Thief Gold.
I never played Gold. What happened?
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
I think they removed a couple of the... things... you're supposed to get... to put them in the wizard's tower. Or something. I dunno. I think It just kind of felt like you hadn't quite accomplished as much while you were there.
It's one of my favorite levels in the series, though I didn't like it as much the second time around. Bonehoard is great as well. Damn, just thinking about these levels is making me want to replay Thief 1 again, much moreso than any other.
It's the epic sneaking and exploration. And holy shit, just so much loot to steal everywhere.
The Thief 4 crew should take note. Big, interesting areas with tons of shit to sneak around and steal? This is a winning formula.
I quite liked the big city rooftop levels with things like the Necromancer's tower for you to explore at your leisure, especially when each part had a little mini-story attached to it e.g. the fate of some prisoner etc.
Yeah, Thief seems to work best in absolutely amazingly written and designed levels, or in wide-open spaces with tons of shit to sneak around and discover.
I wouldn't mind a highly polished COD4 experience (fairly linear + scripted but well written and acted) or a highly polished Crysis experience (here are tools, enjoy island, here's some good story from time to time, when you get around to getting there), but some fusion of the two would probably be too much for the sort of Dev team they'd be willing to assign this project.
Am I the only person who's not totally down with a free-range Thief game? Having an open level would be cool, so long as it was still fairly linear and straight forward, but if the whole game was a free-range experience with side quests, I don't think I'd like that.
Yeah, it's a nice idea in theory, but there are too many variables to control in an actual open world game, like being able to rob most of the stuff from a house, then come back later towards the end of the game and the guards are still patrolling the same routes, nobody's noticed bodies or stuff gone etc. I mean, you could come up with some of system, but what would be the point when having a single, self-contained level worked fine in the past? Assuming we're talking about the T2 kind of scale, not TDS' mini-areas.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
What I want from a Thief game is one awesome set piece after another.
I'm basically pontificating on my dream game where I can sneak around a city robbing people, have the city react dynamically and basically work out some sort of sustainable parasitic existence where I rob enough to be happy but not enough so that they go house to house until they find me.
What I want from a Thief game is one awesome set piece after another.
Pretty much. I've always seen the City as a backdrop, a canvas if you will, never meant to be fully explored, but rather savored in dark samples here and there.
I've been replaying Deadly Shadows, specifically Shalebridge Cradle. I seem to have found a trick/strategy in dealing with the baddies from this level.
So they can't really be killed for some reason, but can be knocked down. Once knocked down, they stay in that position until they are disturbed (ie you run into the body). It seems like this is a way to take them out of commision, as long as you don't walk over or near the body.
Did anyone else notice this, or am I just getting lucky here?
nosnibor on
When you're a spy, it's a good idea to give away your trade secrets in a voiceover on a TV show.
I've been replaying Deadly Shadows, specifically Shalebridge Cradle. I seem to have found a trick/strategy in dealing with the baddies from this level.
So they can't really be killed for some reason, but can be knocked down. Once knocked down, they stay in that position until they are disturbed (ie you run into the body). It seems like this is a way to take them out of commision, as long as you don't walk over or near the body.
Did anyone else notice this, or am I just getting lucky here?
I don't recall, I ghosted the whole Cradle - it's the only way to play :winky: Except for getting into the occassional sword fight in T1/2, which could be a lot of fun. The thing about Shalebridge is that something like 50% of the content is rendered powerless the second time you play through, since it relies on scripted scares and you know that there are actually no enemies whatsoever in certain areas, just flickery lights n' stuff. The Haunted Cathedral is still pretty terrifying because it doesn't rely on scripting.
I've been replaying Deadly Shadows, specifically Shalebridge Cradle. I seem to have found a trick/strategy in dealing with the baddies from this level.
So they can't really be killed for some reason, but can be knocked down. Once knocked down, they stay in that position until they are disturbed (ie you run into the body). It seems like this is a way to take them out of commision, as long as you don't walk over or near the body.
Did anyone else notice this, or am I just getting lucky here?
I don't recall, I ghosted the whole Cradle - it's the only way to play :winky: Except for getting into the occassional sword fight in T1/2, which could be a lot of fun. The thing about Shalebridge is that something like 50% of the content is rendered powerless the second time you play through, since it relies on scripted scares and you know that there are actually no enemies whatsoever in certain areas, just flickery lights n' stuff. The Haunted Cathedral is still pretty terrifying because it doesn't rely on scripting.
Good point about the non-scripting in the The Return To The Cathedral.
I was sneaking through the chapel area and had a good idea of where all the undead was, so I went through pretty confidently. Until- I didn't notice a zombie who apparently got up at some point and started wandering around. Fucker ends up sneaking behind me. I then jump loudly both in-game and out, alerting the entire fucking room.
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Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
I've been replaying Deadly Shadows, specifically Shalebridge Cradle. I seem to have found a trick/strategy in dealing with the baddies from this level.
So they can't really be killed for some reason, but can be knocked down. Once knocked down, they stay in that position until they are disturbed (ie you run into the body). It seems like this is a way to take them out of commision, as long as you don't walk over or near the body.
Did anyone else notice this, or am I just getting lucky here?
That's the default behavior for all undead in DS.
You actually can take out the puppets with flash bombs, holy water, mines, or fire arrows. They'll still leave a body behind that can't be moved, but they won't get back up no matter what you do.
I think a open world would work, but only for the individual levels. Open a-la DS, I don't think that worked as well. I never liked having to sneak past guards to GET to the level. But for the individual levels, the more open the better. Idealy, the designers should be able to say, "Wait...you went in THAT way? huh...I guess that would work. Never thought of that."
And also, I agree with guards being able to be woken up by other guards, it makes hiding the bodies much more important, hehe, you don't want a guard coming across your stash of 5 guards, they'll make your day very unpleasant.
And yes, I recall very clearly in Thief 2, "Ambush!" when you had to get to your apartment, and out of the city, I was following two guys, knocked the first, and went to get the second, and "Boooong..." And then every guard came and introduced my organs to their favorite sword.
Ghostly Clockwork on
FTC: honk.
FTC: HONK.
PAX Prime 2014 Resistance Tournament Winner
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At the same time, I hope that, if the apprentice is the main character, that they don't make her a Mary Sue character. "I'm like a female Garrett! But better in every way and with no flaws whatsoever!"
Ah, in TDS the other night, I knocked over the Hammerite Cathedral. It felt good to steal from the Hammerites again.
If they are planning to have choice and consequence in the new Thief game (which I kinda think is one of the main things that guy meant by RPG elements) it would be fun to hear him give his opionions on your actions...
Come to think of it, I think those guys *were* only in Thief Gold. They were added specifically in spots where you could get completely stuck without fire arrows. There was another one of them added in The Haunted Cathedral... though I don't remember off hand where in the Old Quarter you could get stuck without Fire Arrows really. But yeah, basically kind of a normal servant model shape, just completely on fire.
And yes, the floating balls of fucking fire are still in their normal places as well.
Don't worry, it gets better with Thief 2.
That'd be interesting. A reactive environment where if you start piling up the bodies and making a bloody mess of things, security increases all over the city, Ward sherrifs (like Ramirez) start putting hits on you, and Garrett pretty much treats you like the idiot you are.
Plus it really sucks when you knock out a guard and another one finds him and automatically assumes he's dead. At least have the guard check his breathing and then wake him up. The guards in MGS are smart enough to call for backup when they get CQC'd by Snake
If they're going reactive to that degree, I demand the ability to take two of the guards, knock them out, lay one on top of the other, pour a bunch of wine all over them, and then be able to watch hilarity ensue when they wake up.
Like in Thief 2, when you went to knock out a weird looking Mechanist or city watchman, and as soon as you brought the Blackjack down there was this loud "clang", and that fucker turned around to see you standing there looking all stupid and surprised.
"Er, you weren't supposed to be wearing a goddamn bucket on your head."
Oh, another gripe about TDS
Oh I'm quite familiar with all three Thiefs. The fireballs are just rather annoying, bringing their light with them, destroying my hiding places.
I recall a couple of switches, but that part, for me, involved lots of running into and out of the range of cameras. Good thing is, they only detect the presence of enemies, so you can sneak up on a guard, knock him out in view of the camera, run out before setting it off, wait for it to cool down, run back again, pick up the guard, and hide him where you will.
**Wait a minute, you don't have to use 3rd person in T:DS? On the xbox version?
that's why i never got past mission 2
I played it for the first time on XBox, all in first person.
I feel your pain.
The glowing green balls of light in the second half of "Trail of Blood" were also pain in the ass, because you couldn't put them out with a water arrow.
When most people think "The Lost City," they think of the one from the first game.
It was the one that you got to on the sub in the second game, though. The mission to get into the sub itself was kinda "meh," but I enjoyed the portion in the City proper.
It's one of my favorite levels in the series, though I didn't like it as much the second time around. Bonehoard is great as well. Damn, just thinking about these levels is making me want to replay Thief 1 again, much moreso than any other.
I never played Gold. What happened?
It's the epic sneaking and exploration. And holy shit, just so much loot to steal everywhere.
The Thief 4 crew should take note. Big, interesting areas with tons of shit to sneak around and steal? This is a winning formula.
I wouldn't mind a highly polished COD4 experience (fairly linear + scripted but well written and acted) or a highly polished Crysis experience (here are tools, enjoy island, here's some good story from time to time, when you get around to getting there), but some fusion of the two would probably be too much for the sort of Dev team they'd be willing to assign this project.
Needs more Burricks.
Pretty much. I've always seen the City as a backdrop, a canvas if you will, never meant to be fully explored, but rather savored in dark samples here and there.
I don't recall, I ghosted the whole Cradle - it's the only way to play :winky: Except for getting into the occassional sword fight in T1/2, which could be a lot of fun. The thing about Shalebridge is that something like 50% of the content is rendered powerless the second time you play through, since it relies on scripted scares and you know that there are actually no enemies whatsoever in certain areas, just flickery lights n' stuff. The Haunted Cathedral is still pretty terrifying because it doesn't rely on scripting.
Good point about the non-scripting in the The Return To The Cathedral.
I was sneaking through the chapel area and had a good idea of where all the undead was, so I went through pretty confidently. Until- I didn't notice a zombie who apparently got up at some point and started wandering around. Fucker ends up sneaking behind me. I then jump loudly both in-game and out, alerting the entire fucking room.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
That's the default behavior for all undead in DS.
And also, I agree with guards being able to be woken up by other guards, it makes hiding the bodies much more important, hehe, you don't want a guard coming across your stash of 5 guards, they'll make your day very unpleasant.
And yes, I recall very clearly in Thief 2, "Ambush!" when you had to get to your apartment, and out of the city, I was following two guys, knocked the first, and went to get the second, and "Boooong..." And then every guard came and introduced my organs to their favorite sword.
FTC: HONK.
PAX Prime 2014 Resistance Tournament Winner