Your best bet for Thief 1 and 2 would be to get Eidos to sign on to GOG - if they do so, I would be astonished if Thief 1 and 2 were two of the games that they didn't try to get working.
I love GOG and I hope Eidos signs on for it but that's not going to help me play them right now. :P That's alright though, I can wait to play them or even never do so. Like I said, I'm looking at buying T:DS on Steam and I'll see how Thief 4 turns out.
Buy it on Steam and download the Deadly Detail texture pack. I can't say that enough. The texture pack kicks ass and makes the game look way better.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
Call me a cynic, but I've little faith in a company that essentially comes out and says "We feel that stealth games are boring and tedious, ergo, we're doing the fourth game of the Thief series." Of course, the day that this game comes out, I'm more than likely going to throw my wallet at it. Providing of course they release it for the PC the same time they release it for the console.
Call me a cynic, but I've little faith in a company that essentially comes out and says "We feel that stealth games are boring and tedious, ergo, we're doing the fourth game of the Thief series." Of course, the day that this game comes out, I'm more than likely going to throw my wallet at it. Providing of course they release it for the PC the same time they release it for the console.
They said there's an association.
They did not say that they were those things.
Look, don't even try. He responded to a post that said exactly that with "THEY HATE STEALTH GAMES."
You forgot the part where I also said "DESPITE ALL THAT I WILL STILL BUY THIS GAME BECAUSE IT'S THIEF".
Call me a cynic, but I've little faith in a company that essentially comes out and says "We feel that stealth games are boring and tedious, ergo, we're doing the fourth game of the Thief series." Of course, the day that this game comes out, I'm more than likely going to throw my wallet at it. Providing of course they release it for the PC the same time they release it for the console.
They said there's an association.
They did not say that they were those things.
Look, don't even try. He responded to a post that said exactly that with "THEY HATE STEALTH GAMES."
You forgot the part where I also said "DESPITE ALL THAT I WILL STILL BUY THIS GAME BECAUSE IT'S THIEF".
But, hey, an "A" for effort.
Edit: Nice deletion
I deleted it because I decided to not be antagonistic, not because I thought I said something stupid.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
You forgot the part where I was pointing out a discrepancy between what you said they said and what they actually said.
See. That was point. Not whether you're going to buy it or not.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to give an "F" for "Failing at reading comprehension."
Call me a cynic, but I've little faith in a company that essentially comes out and says "We feel that stealth games are boring and tedious, ergo, we're doing the fourth game of the Thief series." Of course, the day that this game comes out, I'm more than likely going to throw my wallet at it. Providing of course they release it for the PC the same time they release it for the console.
They said there's an association.
They did not say that they were those things.
It's all one and the same in my warped little mind.
Now, excuse me, I have to go crawl back under my rock. It's the light of logic, you see. It blinds us so.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
It is somewhat troubling corporate jargon, but who knows who it's aimed for really. I'll start worrying when they start talking about Epic Burrick Mounts.
It is somewhat troubling corporate jargon, but who knows who it's aimed for really.
Yeah, the not-quite-dead-yet-fanboy part of me rails at this jargon and demands blood sacrifice, while the more dominant rational part of me pretty much says "They announced this game like four days ago, chill the fuck out mang, seriously". Sometimes I dread the worst though, but meh. It's their game now, they'll do whatever they want with it.
I'll start worrying when they start talking about Epic Burrick Mounts
Just, just stop. You had me at "Burrick". You had me at "Burrick"
But no, you know somewhere out in the internet there's some poor delusional kid saying how great it would be if Thief had dailies or some shit.
The problem with stealth games is that Thief arguably represents the peak of the genre. Some would say Splinter Cell, but the modern technology and type of level design provides a slightly different dynamic, and I personally prefer Thief. Then there's MGS, but I don't consider that a stealth game per se, as much as a "Metal Gear" game; i.e. it's pretty much its own unique formula and isn't necessarily bound to what we associate with stealth gameplay.
The genre (or, rather, subgenre) is very much stagnant and bogged down by lack of innovation. But this is absolutely not the fault of Thief, as much as the fault of less talented developers who don't understand how to create an engrossing stealth experience. And then there's the whole situation of shoehorning stealth segments into other games. This is the problem, and this is why the negative association exists.
Eidos Montreal wouldn't need to innovate if they could produce something that's as good as the established Thief formula. Most developers, however, cannot; I sincerely doubt they can. So maybe attempting something different is better suited for this particular studio. Often it's a better idea to focus on what you're good at, instead of trying to recreate something from a different time and place.
Of course, we don't know what Eidos Montreal are good at yet, but I don't think it's logical to assume that Thief 4 would automatically benefit from rigidly following the old formula. Not everyone can make it work, after all.
Cherrn on
All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
It's not that I'm against them changing things up a bit, I'm against them changing things up and, in the process, fucking things beyond all recognition, which is what usually tends to happen in these types of situations.
Call me a cynic, but I've little faith in a company that essentially comes out and says "We feel that stealth games are boring and tedious, ergo, we're doing the fourth game of the Thief series." Of course, the day that this game comes out, I'm more than likely going to throw my wallet at it. Providing of course they release it for the PC the same time they release it for the console.
I agree with this, of course people are reading me as if I want the exact same game down to the number of buttons on Garrett's shirt. I wouldn't mind some changes -- hell wasn't I talking about guards waking up after getting blackjacked a few pages ago? What I'm saying is that these guys are taking the Thief name and looking to "liven up" Thief's stealth system because they want to make something they can earn more cash on than the previous games in the series garnered.
Of course, we don't know what Eidos Montreal are good at yet, but I don't think it's logical to assume that Thief 4 would automatically benefit from rigidly following the old formula. Not everyone can make it work, after all.
True. Better for them to do what they're best at than to try and fake it and fail. Has Eidos Montreal done any other games or is this "johny's first time at bat"?
It's not that I'm against them changing things up a bit, I'm against them changing things up and, in the process, fucking things beyond all recognition, which is what usually tends to happen in these types of situations.
Call me a cynic, but I've little faith in a company that essentially comes out and says "We feel that stealth games are boring and tedious, ergo, we're doing the fourth game of the Thief series." Of course, the day that this game comes out, I'm more than likely going to throw my wallet at it. Providing of course they release it for the PC the same time they release it for the console.
I agree with this, of course people are reading me as if I want the exact same game down to the number of buttons on Garrett's shirt. I wouldn't mind some changes -- hell wasn't I talking about guards waking up after getting blackjacked a few pages ago? What I'm saying is that these guys are taking the Thief name and looking to "liven up" Thief's stealth system because they want to make something they can earn more cash on than the previous games in the series garnered.
Yes. Stealth games like Thief will not make as much money as popular FPS games. Adding elements of that (or any) genre is not the answer. Thief will not be the most popular game, but that is the nature of the beast. Deal with it, or you will only alienate the people who will buy the game.
It needs evolving. Waiting in one spot while you watch guards, etc. walk fixed paths so you can simply attack from behind at the one point when nobody is looking is, quite frankly, weak.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
Of course, we don't know what Eidos Montreal are good at yet, but I don't think it's logical to assume that Thief 4 would automatically benefit from rigidly following the old formula. Not everyone can make it work, after all.
True. Better for them to do what they're best at than to try and fake it and fail. Has Eidos Montreal done any other games or is this "johny's first time at bat"?
I'm pretty sure they have yet to make a game. As a company.
The sort-of-good news is that they're making Deus-Ex 3. So we can start figuring out what they're capable of as that starts to come out. I think it's supposed to show at E3 in July. Although, I'm thinking if the game doesn't do well in sales, Square-Enix will just liquidate them before Thief 4 makes it to shelves.
It needs evolving. Waiting in one spot while you watch guards, etc. walk fixed paths so you can simply attack from behind at the one point when nobody is looking is, quite frankly, weak.
Where they should work on improving is guard AI, level design, and tools that are available for you to mess around with. You're a thief. Guards have armor and are typically at least marginally trained how to use them - if you're facing too many, you'll die. Shifting too far outside of the "avoid guards paradigm" and it's not really breaking into places and thieving anymore.
It needs evolving. Waiting in one spot while you watch guards, etc. walk fixed paths so you can simply attack from behind at the one point when nobody is looking is, quite frankly, weak.
I'm all for it evolving. Dynamic guards that react to changes in the environment. Possibly a weight system to limit what gear you can carry vs. what loot you can grab -- maybe affecting how fast you can move or how high you can mantle? Perhaps a larger environment, traversing the entire city rather than missions being single locations as they were in 1 and 2 or broken down even further in 3.
This article doesn't read like they want evolution. Again, it is early in development, so things will become more clear over time, but it's exceptionally rare for a company to reinvent a franchise and succeed, and this article doesn't read like they have their priorities in the right place. Stealth has a reputation for being boring and slow paced, after all, so maybe people won't miss that so much if Thief leaves it behind, right?
It needs evolving. Waiting in one spot while you watch guards, etc. walk fixed paths so you can simply attack from behind at the one point when nobody is looking is, quite frankly, weak.
I'm pretty sure that's an integral part of a stealth game. It's like me saying first person shooters suck because I have to shoot people in the head to be successful.
It needs evolving. Waiting in one spot while you watch guards, etc. walk fixed paths so you can simply attack from behind at the one point when nobody is looking is, quite frankly, weak.
I'm pretty sure that's an integral part of a stealth game. It's like me saying first person shooters suck because I have to shoot people in the head to be successful.
Evolving is ALWAYS good though.
It doesn't have to be. Stealth simply means avoiding being seen. Playing a game of Redlight-greenlight with AI that's as dumb as a bag of rocks is what stealth games have been relying on and it needs to change. You sit in one spot, memorize the pattern and move when the longest "greenlight" appears at the designated time. Every game that has a stealth portion has been relying on this as well. Coming up with deeper mechanics is something stealth gameplay in general desperately needs. Now, it doesn't mean Eidos will be successful in improving it, but I'd much rather see them try then just repackage an old game.
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It needs evolving. Waiting in one spot while you watch guards, etc. walk fixed paths so you can simply attack from behind at the one point when nobody is looking is, quite frankly, weak.
I'm pretty sure that's an integral part of a stealth game. It's like me saying first person shooters suck because I have to shoot people in the head to be successful.
Evolving is ALWAYS good though.
It doesn't have to be. Stealth simply means avoiding being seen. Playing a game of Redlight-greenlight with AI that's as dumb as a bag of rocks is what stealth games have been relying on and it needs to change. You sit in one spot, memorize the pattern and move when the longest "greenlight" appears at the designated time. Every game that has a stealth portion has been relying on this as well. Coming up with deeper mechanics is something stealth gameplay in general desperately needs. Now, it doesn't mean Eidos will be successful in improving it, but I'd much rather see them try then just repackage an old game.
If Eidos pulls off a rebirth and revitalization of the stealth genre via Thief 4, that would be awesome. There are ways that Thief could be better, and with the tech that we have now, it's possible. I don't know if Eidos will actually pull it off or if it's even their intention to do so, but one can always hope.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Ungh so I'm playing Thief 2, doing the bank job. I remember it being awesome. And it kinda was but I got all my objectives done really fast, then decided to explore upstairs because it looked interesting on the map. I forgot how surreal and fucked up and difficult some of that level was. Shit gave me a headache. Weird ramps and stairs everywhere. Looked more like Constantine's Manor than a bank.
The purpose of this video was to show the implementation of conversations between NPCs, thus why the 'voice acting' is kinda silly in that spot. But the video also shows a lot of the other aspects, like the smooth mantling, NPC reactions to glimpses/sounds and the lighting at work.
Ungh so I'm playing Thief 2, doing the bank job. I remember it being awesome. And it kinda was but I got all my objectives done really fast, then decided to explore upstairs because it looked interesting on the map. I forgot how surreal and fucked up and difficult some of that level was. Shit gave me a headache. Weird ramps and stairs everywhere. Looked more like Constantine's Manor than a bank.
I remember my first time on that level. Getting into the bank was fun, but jesus it was a nightmare to get the goods. Tile floors, lights everywhere, robots and shit. And yeah, the first time around for me the top floor was confusing as fuck to navigate.
Ungh so I'm playing Thief 2, doing the bank job. I remember it being awesome. And it kinda was but I got all my objectives done really fast, then decided to explore upstairs because it looked interesting on the map. I forgot how surreal and fucked up and difficult some of that level was. Shit gave me a headache. Weird ramps and stairs everywhere. Looked more like Constantine's Manor than a bank.
I started playing Thief 2. Once I finished the job, I just left. I didn't want to do the other areas because it was a pain in the fucking ass.
Im really hoping they keep it as a first person perspective. Thief Deadly Shadows felt like a splinter cell knock off.
In a wierd, sadistic way, im kind of hoping for a mostly zombie underground/wilderness level. Those levels to me were what a tomb raider game should've been. To me, a thief isn't necessarily a guy pickpocketing or stealing from houses at night. It should be a guy who can steal just about anything from anywhere. The zombie/ghost levels really made you use all of your skills and items. Plus it felt really Indiana Jones-ish, which is always a good thing.
Down In The Bonehoard is still one of my favorite missions from Thief 1.
Im really hoping they keep it as a first person perspective. Thief Deadly Shadows felt like a splinter cell knock off.
In a wierd, sadistic way, im kind of hoping for a mostly zombie underground/wilderness level. Those levels to me were what a tomb raider game should've been. To me, a thief isn't necessarily a guy pickpocketing or stealing from houses at night. It should be a guy who can steal just about anything from anywhere. The zombie/ghost levels really made you use all of your skills and items. Plus it felt really Indiana Jones-ish, which is always a good thing.
Down In The Bonehoard is still one of my favorite missions from Thief 1.
The best thing about the 3rd person in TDS was that you didn't need to use it. That was about it.
If they have a couple of tomb-raider type levels (like Bonehoard or Lost City) for T4, that'd be awesome. Bonehoard isn't necessarily one of my favorite missions from Thief, but it is one of the most memorable. Who wouldn't remember a level that had more traps, zombies, hammer haunts, fire elementals, and burricks in it than you could shake a stick at?
Im really hoping they keep it as a first person perspective. Thief Deadly Shadows felt like a splinter cell knock off.
In a wierd, sadistic way, im kind of hoping for a mostly zombie underground/wilderness level. Those levels to me were what a tomb raider game should've been. To me, a thief isn't necessarily a guy pickpocketing or stealing from houses at night. It should be a guy who can steal just about anything from anywhere. The zombie/ghost levels really made you use all of your skills and items. Plus it felt really Indiana Jones-ish, which is always a good thing.
Down In The Bonehoard is still one of my favorite missions from Thief 1.
The best thing about the 3rd person in TDS was that you didn't need to use it. That was about it.
If they have a couple of tomb-raider type levels (like Bonehoard or Lost City) for T4, that'd be awesome. Bonehoard isn't necessarily one of my favorite missions from Thief, but it is one of the most memorable. Who wouldn't remember a level that had more traps, zombies, hammer haunts, fire elementals, and burricks in it than you could shake a stick at?
I'm not remembering any fire elementals in Bonehoard.
And only one Hammer Haunt, for that matter.
Mind you, I was playing TDP, not Gold, so maybe that's why. I seem to recall hearing they added a fair number more enemies to the Lost City, for example.
Im really hoping they keep it as a first person perspective. Thief Deadly Shadows felt like a splinter cell knock off.
In a wierd, sadistic way, im kind of hoping for a mostly zombie underground/wilderness level. Those levels to me were what a tomb raider game should've been. To me, a thief isn't necessarily a guy pickpocketing or stealing from houses at night. It should be a guy who can steal just about anything from anywhere. The zombie/ghost levels really made you use all of your skills and items. Plus it felt really Indiana Jones-ish, which is always a good thing.
Down In The Bonehoard is still one of my favorite missions from Thief 1.
The best thing about the 3rd person in TDS was that you didn't need to use it. That was about it.
If they have a couple of tomb-raider type levels (like Bonehoard or Lost City) for T4, that'd be awesome. Bonehoard isn't necessarily one of my favorite missions from Thief, but it is one of the most memorable. Who wouldn't remember a level that had more traps, zombies, hammer haunts, fire elementals, and burricks in it than you could shake a stick at?
I'm not remembering any fire elementals in Bonehoard.
And only one Hammer Haunt, for that matter.
Mind you, I was playing TDP, not Gold, so maybe that's why. I seem to recall hearing they added a fair number more enemies to the Lost City, for example.
Hmm... well the fire elemental was added in Gold, but I *think* the Hammer Haunt was always there. You had to go past him on your way to pick up either the Mystic's Heart or Mystic's Soul on Hard or Expert I believe.
The fire elementals were there if you turned the difficulty up to the highest setting. However, as you said, I played this on Thief Gold, so there could be a difference.
My only problem was that fire elementals in the Bonehoard, a haunted crypt, didn't make much sense to me. More Hammer haunts? Yeah, makes total sense. Suddenly, there are Fire Elementals? WTF? Did the original architects dig too deep and breach a tunnel to the Lost City?
The fire elementals were there if you turned the difficulty up to the highest setting. However, as you said, I played this on Thief Gold, so there could be a difference.
My only problem was that fire elementals in the Bonehoard, a haunted crypt, didn't make much sense to me. More Hammer haunts? Yeah, makes total sense. Suddenly, there are Fire Elementals? WTF? Did the original architects dig too deep and breach a tunnel to the Lost City?
Yeah, in TDP, there was no fire elementals until The Lost City. Played every stage at Expert difficulty.
And only one Hammer Haunt, which was creepy as hell, but easy to get around. First one I actually had to face was in that one mansion in the city on the way to the haunted cathedral. And there was two or three in there
Im really hoping they keep it as a first person perspective. Thief Deadly Shadows felt like a splinter cell knock off.
In a wierd, sadistic way, im kind of hoping for a mostly zombie underground/wilderness level. Those levels to me were what a tomb raider game should've been. To me, a thief isn't necessarily a guy pickpocketing or stealing from houses at night. It should be a guy who can steal just about anything from anywhere. The zombie/ghost levels really made you use all of your skills and items. Plus it felt really Indiana Jones-ish, which is always a good thing.
Down In The Bonehoard is still one of my favorite missions from Thief 1.
The best thing about the 3rd person in TDS was that you didn't need to use it. That was about it.
If they have a couple of tomb-raider type levels (like Bonehoard or Lost City) for T4, that'd be awesome. Bonehoard isn't necessarily one of my favorite missions from Thief, but it is one of the most memorable. Who wouldn't remember a level that had more traps, zombies, hammer haunts, fire elementals, and burricks in it than you could shake a stick at?
Yeah, you could play the entire game without ever using it.
3rd person was basically a built in cheat mode that didn't require the console, like the stealth mode in Crysis.
The fire elementals were there if you turned the difficulty up to the highest setting. However, as you said, I played this on Thief Gold, so there could be a difference.
My only problem was that fire elementals in the Bonehoard, a haunted crypt, didn't make much sense to me. More Hammer haunts? Yeah, makes total sense. Suddenly, there are Fire Elementals? WTF? Did the original architects dig too deep and breach a tunnel to the Lost City?
Yeah, in TDP, there was no fire elementals until The Lost City. Played every stage at Expert difficulty.
And only one Hammer Haunt, which was creepy as hell, but easy to get around. First one I actually had to face was in that one mansion in the city on the way to the haunted cathedral. And there was two or three in there
By fire elementals, we mean the guys walking around on fire. At any rate, the reason one was added in the Bonehoard was so that you couldn't get stuck without Fire Arrows to complete the puzzle where you had to like the torches. Every time you 'kill' the fire elemental guy, he leaves a Fire Arrow and if you wait around a while, he comes back.
The fire elementals were there if you turned the difficulty up to the highest setting. However, as you said, I played this on Thief Gold, so there could be a difference.
My only problem was that fire elementals in the Bonehoard, a haunted crypt, didn't make much sense to me. More Hammer haunts? Yeah, makes total sense. Suddenly, there are Fire Elementals? WTF? Did the original architects dig too deep and breach a tunnel to the Lost City?
Yeah, in TDP, there was no fire elementals until The Lost City. Played every stage at Expert difficulty.
And only one Hammer Haunt, which was creepy as hell, but easy to get around. First one I actually had to face was in that one mansion in the city on the way to the haunted cathedral. And there was two or three in there
By fire elementals, we mean the guys walking around on fire. At any rate, the reason one was added in the Bonehoard was so that you couldn't get stuck without Fire Arrows to complete the puzzle where you had to like the torches. Every time you 'kill' the fire elemental guy, he leaves a Fire Arrow and if you wait around a while, he comes back.
Hm. They must have changed that a lot then. Fire elementals for me were these glowing firey orbs which you took out with a single water arrow - they didn't drop anything. And I don't recall there ever being someone walking around on fire.
Hmm...I had a idea for the question if you'd play Garrett or his apperentance. Why not both? Something like, at the beginning, you can chose, Garret or Garreta. Both have pluses and minuses, say Garret is much better at hiding in shadow, he can't be seen even with a slight glow to the light gem, where Garreta needs to be in full darkness. However, she's smaller and lighter, thus can move quieter over hard floors.
May be interesting, and has the potential for the appertiance rescuing the master.
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FTC: honk.
FTC: HONK.
PAX Prime 2014 Resistance Tournament Winner
I agree that perhaps a "play as either" option would be neat, but there really shouldn't be any amount of + or - to differentiate a character's abilities (like sneaking or picking locks) in a Thief game. Garrett's "skill" at being a Master Thief is pretty much the player's skill at controlling Garrett.
That said, if the game is centered on the apprentice, the writers better not pull a "Hero's Journey" on us and do the whole "Father figure dies so the Hero can grow as a Character". That shit be cliche, yo.
I agree that perhaps a "play as either" option would be neat, but there really shouldn't be any amount of + or - to differentiate a character's abilities (like sneaking or picking locks) in a Thief game. Garrett's "skill" at being a Master Thief is pretty much the player's skill at controlling Garrett.
That said, if the game is centered on the apprentice, the writers better not pull a "Hero's Journey" on us and do the whole "Father figure dies so the Hero can grow as a Character". That shit be cliche, yo.
Christ do I ever agree. It's usefull sometimes but for the most part I think it's overdone and I imagine a creative writer could find a much less tired way of progressing a character.
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Buy it on Steam and download the Deadly Detail texture pack. I can't say that enough. The texture pack kicks ass and makes the game look way better.
They said there's an association.
They did not say that they were those things.
You forgot the part where I also said "DESPITE ALL THAT I WILL STILL BUY THIS GAME BECAUSE IT'S THIEF".
But, hey, an "A" for effort.
Edit: Nice deletion
I deleted it because I decided to not be antagonistic, not because I thought I said something stupid.
See. That was point. Not whether you're going to buy it or not.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to give an "F" for "Failing at reading comprehension."
It's all one and the same in my warped little mind.
Now, excuse me, I have to go crawl back under my rock. It's the light of logic, you see. It blinds us so.
Yeah, the not-quite-dead-yet-fanboy part of me rails at this jargon and demands blood sacrifice, while the more dominant rational part of me pretty much says "They announced this game like four days ago, chill the fuck out mang, seriously". Sometimes I dread the worst though, but meh. It's their game now, they'll do whatever they want with it.
Just, just stop. You had me at "Burrick". You had me at "Burrick"
But no, you know somewhere out in the internet there's some poor delusional kid saying how great it would be if Thief had dailies or some shit.
The genre (or, rather, subgenre) is very much stagnant and bogged down by lack of innovation. But this is absolutely not the fault of Thief, as much as the fault of less talented developers who don't understand how to create an engrossing stealth experience. And then there's the whole situation of shoehorning stealth segments into other games. This is the problem, and this is why the negative association exists.
Eidos Montreal wouldn't need to innovate if they could produce something that's as good as the established Thief formula. Most developers, however, cannot; I sincerely doubt they can. So maybe attempting something different is better suited for this particular studio. Often it's a better idea to focus on what you're good at, instead of trying to recreate something from a different time and place.
Of course, we don't know what Eidos Montreal are good at yet, but I don't think it's logical to assume that Thief 4 would automatically benefit from rigidly following the old formula. Not everyone can make it work, after all.
I agree with this, of course people are reading me as if I want the exact same game down to the number of buttons on Garrett's shirt. I wouldn't mind some changes -- hell wasn't I talking about guards waking up after getting blackjacked a few pages ago? What I'm saying is that these guys are taking the Thief name and looking to "liven up" Thief's stealth system because they want to make something they can earn more cash on than the previous games in the series garnered.
True. Better for them to do what they're best at than to try and fake it and fail. Has Eidos Montreal done any other games or is this "johny's first time at bat"?
Yes. Stealth games like Thief will not make as much money as popular FPS games. Adding elements of that (or any) genre is not the answer. Thief will not be the most popular game, but that is the nature of the beast. Deal with it, or you will only alienate the people who will buy the game.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
I'm pretty sure they have yet to make a game. As a company.
The sort-of-good news is that they're making Deus-Ex 3. So we can start figuring out what they're capable of as that starts to come out. I think it's supposed to show at E3 in July. Although, I'm thinking if the game doesn't do well in sales, Square-Enix will just liquidate them before Thief 4 makes it to shelves.
Where they should work on improving is guard AI, level design, and tools that are available for you to mess around with. You're a thief. Guards have armor and are typically at least marginally trained how to use them - if you're facing too many, you'll die. Shifting too far outside of the "avoid guards paradigm" and it's not really breaking into places and thieving anymore.
I'm all for it evolving. Dynamic guards that react to changes in the environment. Possibly a weight system to limit what gear you can carry vs. what loot you can grab -- maybe affecting how fast you can move or how high you can mantle? Perhaps a larger environment, traversing the entire city rather than missions being single locations as they were in 1 and 2 or broken down even further in 3.
This article doesn't read like they want evolution. Again, it is early in development, so things will become more clear over time, but it's exceptionally rare for a company to reinvent a franchise and succeed, and this article doesn't read like they have their priorities in the right place. Stealth has a reputation for being boring and slow paced, after all, so maybe people won't miss that so much if Thief leaves it behind, right?
I'm pretty sure that's an integral part of a stealth game. It's like me saying first person shooters suck because I have to shoot people in the head to be successful.
Evolving is ALWAYS good though.
It doesn't have to be. Stealth simply means avoiding being seen. Playing a game of Redlight-greenlight with AI that's as dumb as a bag of rocks is what stealth games have been relying on and it needs to change. You sit in one spot, memorize the pattern and move when the longest "greenlight" appears at the designated time. Every game that has a stealth portion has been relying on this as well. Coming up with deeper mechanics is something stealth gameplay in general desperately needs. Now, it doesn't mean Eidos will be successful in improving it, but I'd much rather see them try then just repackage an old game.
If Eidos pulls off a rebirth and revitalization of the stealth genre via Thief 4, that would be awesome. There are ways that Thief could be better, and with the tech that we have now, it's possible. I don't know if Eidos will actually pull it off or if it's even their intention to do so, but one can always hope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo9wFE1RBRQ&feature=player_embedded
The purpose of this video was to show the implementation of conversations between NPCs, thus why the 'voice acting' is kinda silly in that spot. But the video also shows a lot of the other aspects, like the smooth mantling, NPC reactions to glimpses/sounds and the lighting at work.
I remember my first time on that level. Getting into the bank was fun, but jesus it was a nightmare to get the goods. Tile floors, lights everywhere, robots and shit. And yeah, the first time around for me the top floor was confusing as fuck to navigate.
In a wierd, sadistic way, im kind of hoping for a mostly zombie underground/wilderness level. Those levels to me were what a tomb raider game should've been. To me, a thief isn't necessarily a guy pickpocketing or stealing from houses at night. It should be a guy who can steal just about anything from anywhere. The zombie/ghost levels really made you use all of your skills and items. Plus it felt really Indiana Jones-ish, which is always a good thing.
Down In The Bonehoard is still one of my favorite missions from Thief 1.
The best thing about the 3rd person in TDS was that you didn't need to use it. That was about it.
If they have a couple of tomb-raider type levels (like Bonehoard or Lost City) for T4, that'd be awesome. Bonehoard isn't necessarily one of my favorite missions from Thief, but it is one of the most memorable. Who wouldn't remember a level that had more traps, zombies, hammer haunts, fire elementals, and burricks in it than you could shake a stick at?
I'm not remembering any fire elementals in Bonehoard.
And only one Hammer Haunt, for that matter.
Mind you, I was playing TDP, not Gold, so maybe that's why. I seem to recall hearing they added a fair number more enemies to the Lost City, for example.
Hmm... well the fire elemental was added in Gold, but I *think* the Hammer Haunt was always there. You had to go past him on your way to pick up either the Mystic's Heart or Mystic's Soul on Hard or Expert I believe.
My only problem was that fire elementals in the Bonehoard, a haunted crypt, didn't make much sense to me. More Hammer haunts? Yeah, makes total sense. Suddenly, there are Fire Elementals? WTF? Did the original architects dig too deep and breach a tunnel to the Lost City?
Yeah, in TDP, there was no fire elementals until The Lost City. Played every stage at Expert difficulty.
And only one Hammer Haunt, which was creepy as hell, but easy to get around. First one I actually had to face was in that one mansion in the city on the way to the haunted cathedral. And there was two or three in there
Yeah, you could play the entire game without ever using it.
3rd person was basically a built in cheat mode that didn't require the console, like the stealth mode in Crysis.
By fire elementals, we mean the guys walking around on fire. At any rate, the reason one was added in the Bonehoard was so that you couldn't get stuck without Fire Arrows to complete the puzzle where you had to like the torches. Every time you 'kill' the fire elemental guy, he leaves a Fire Arrow and if you wait around a while, he comes back.
Hm. They must have changed that a lot then. Fire elementals for me were these glowing firey orbs which you took out with a single water arrow - they didn't drop anything. And I don't recall there ever being someone walking around on fire.
May be interesting, and has the potential for the appertiance rescuing the master.
FTC: HONK.
PAX Prime 2014 Resistance Tournament Winner
That said, if the game is centered on the apprentice, the writers better not pull a "Hero's Journey" on us and do the whole "Father figure dies so the Hero can grow as a Character". That shit be cliche, yo.
Christ do I ever agree. It's usefull sometimes but for the most part I think it's overdone and I imagine a creative writer could find a much less tired way of progressing a character.