Wiki says Mutant X's Captain America was a mutant who possessed energy manipulation powers that activated whenever America was threatened.
The thing about Mutant X is that it seemed to be written by someone who couldn't remember what was on the previous page. Cap was sometimes a reasonable guy, sometimes apparently a mutant, sometimes a steroid-crazed super-patriot who eats babies. It was just really awful.
Sars, if you're going to rate Ultimates 3 as better than IC there's just no talking to you.
wow you're a pretty lenient guy then because all of that is just the icing on the horrible cake that is Identity Crisis
I'm going to be honest, IC was one of the first DC comics I read when I got back into comics in 2001 outside of some of Kelly's JLA run, so I couldn't really gauge it on anything, and what I remembered from DC comics as a kid all revolved around Robin, Impulse, and Superboy, who were not in the series. Those were the things that annoyed me as someone relatively new to the DCU.
hell I liked Identity Crisis. Didn't know what it was, read it in a sitting in BAM. I'm surprised that it's getting anywhere near as much hate as crap like Ultimates 3. Then again, maybe it had a lot of hype or something? I wouldn't know.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited May 2009
Now that I'm comfortable in the DCU, IC really did piss on a lot of the 80's era JLA and characters all in an attempt to be dark and gritty and not be so happy and fun, which DC was always seen as compared to Marvel. What's annoying is that there is nothing wrong with being happy and fun.
I liked IC as well. Not having much of an attachment to many DC characters I didn't get annoyed by possible conflicts of characterisation with past canon.
i dare you to find a bigger piece of shit than identity crisis
Crisis was bad... but series, either of the Crisis that came after are in contention, as are a bunch of elseworld's stories, some random recent claremont stories, stuff Image put out back in the day, etc.
sportzboytjw on
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TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
Man how can you say the Final Crisis or even Infinite Crisis were worse than Identity Crisis?
Because some people don't feel like blowing Identity Crisis completely out of proportion?
Was it bad? yes. Was it bad because of what they did in it? Yes. Was it at least a coherent, readable story? Yes.
I understand the hate it gets, but that doesn't make it the worst story ever. Not. Even. Close.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I think Identity Crisis gets hated on moreso than other bad comics not just because of the story itself, but also due to the behind-the-scenes bullshit that was revealed to be the impetus for its creation ("We need a rape!"), the way Meltzer discussed the book in interviews, mentioning how DC gave him a list of characters it was okay to kill, with him cherry picking characters from said list, the way it became indicative of the tone Dan Didio would set for the DCU, and the negative aftereffects that still linger in the DCU. Identity Crisis didn't have the decency to just suck and then go away, like so many other bad comics.
It sucked, and clueless mainstream reviewers crowed from the rooftops about how superhero comics had, under the hand of a real author, finally matured enough to join the rest of the literary community.
Identity Crisis sucked and Tim Drake's dad died, leading into years of stories featuring a character that's less fun and interesting to read about than before IDC.
It sucked and then longtime JLAer Firestorm died, an event that went virtually unnoticed, and served no real purpose other than to set up yet another legacy character.
It sucked and Dr. Light went from being a complex, interesting villain torn between villainy and redemption, who had untold power but not the skill to properly utilize it, to an all-powerful, one-dimensional Snidely Whiplash-like caricature, who couldn't go one appearance without talking about rape, and then was ultimately snuffed offhandedly.
It sucked and Captain Boomerang died, paving the way for a replacement that nobody seems to know what to do with.
It sucked Ralph and Sue Dibny went from plucky detectives to plucky detectives with a dark and terrible secret hidden in their past. A dark and terrible secret that failed to add anything to their characters but a bit of poorly manufactured pathos designed to tug at the heart strings.
It sucked and, years later, we're still paying for it as DC continues to push out more series centered around maiming, killing, raping, or otherwise brutalizing its characters with a smug smile, all the while saying, "Yeah, bet you didn't think we'd go there huh?"
The sense of fun and high adventure that was present in DC's titles under Jeanette Kahn's editorial supervision has been stamped out in favor of a crass, heavy-handed approach to telling "mature" and "important" stories. Ironically, there's very little more immature than all the dramatically overwrought, ultra-violent stories DC seems so intent on pushing out the door.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited May 2009
See Munch, he knows what he's talking about.
Identity Crisis can be given praise for shining light on the DC when it needed it, as at the time Marvel was really punching them around, with their only big selling book being Authority (which then tanked as Millar and Quitley left) and JLA. But in the process it did sell a bit of its soul to get those extra sales and market share. Like The Long Halloween or Hush, it had no substance to it and falls apart as you become more acclimated to the DCU and its history or actually read it as it was billed, as a mystery.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited May 2009
But during/after Identity Crisis and for a brief moment during Infinite Crisis, DC actually beat them for a month or two in sales and market share (as a sidenote, Quesada acted like a bitch about it when he was doing his Cup of Joes at Newsarama still, with some passive agressive kudos; which was weird, because he always said its best for the industry when both the big 2 get really close and competitive).
Marvel pulled away again with Civil War, and after the debacle of Final Crisis, DC had nothing to offer. Their load was spent. That's why they're milking Blackest Night beyond what it was originally supposed to be.
And yet, it STILL doesn't make Identity Crisis the worst thing ever. I'd actually struggle to put it in my top 5. And, while I know that Identity Crisis was just a cynical emotional hand job, I think they actually succeeded when it comes to the death of Tim's father. That brought a genuine reaction from me.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I think Identity Crisis gets hated on moreso than other bad comics not just because of the story itself, but also due to the behind-the-scenes bullshit that was revealed to be the impetus for its creation ("We need a rape!"), the way Meltzer discussed the book in interviews, mentioning how DC gave him a list of characters it was okay to kill, with him cherry picking characters from said list, the way it became indicative of the tone Dan Didio would set for the DCU, and the negative aftereffects that still linger in the DCU. Identity Crisis didn't have the decency to just suck and then go away, like so many other bad comics.
It sucked, and clueless mainstream reviewers crowed from the rooftops about how superhero comics had, under the hand of a real author, finally matured enough to join the rest of the literary community.
Identity Crisis sucked and Tim Drake's dad died, leading into years of stories featuring a character that's less fun and interesting to read about than before IDC.
It sucked and then longtime JLAer Firestorm died, an event that went virtually unnoticed, and served no real purpose other than to set up yet another legacy character.
It sucked and Dr. Light went from being a complex, interesting villain torn between villainy and redemption, who had untold power but not the skill to properly utilize it, to an all-powerful, one-dimensional Snidely Whiplash-like caricature, who couldn't go one appearance without talking about rape, and then was ultimately snuffed offhandedly.
It sucked and Captain Boomerang died, paving the way for a replacement that nobody seems to know what to do with.
It sucked Ralph and Sue Dibny went from plucky detectives to plucky detectives with a dark and terrible secret hidden in their past. A dark and terrible secret that failed to add anything to their characters but a bit of poorly manufactured pathos designed to tug at the heart strings.
It sucked and, years later, we're still paying for it as DC continues to push out more series centered around maiming, killing, raping, or otherwise brutalizing its characters with a smug smile, all the while saying, "Yeah, bet you didn't think we'd go there huh?"
The sense of fun and high adventure that was present in DC's titles under Jeanette Kahn's editorial supervision has been stamped out in favor of a crass, heavy-handed approach to telling "mature" and "important" stories. Ironically, there's very little more immature than all the dramatically overwrought, ultra-violent stories DC seems so intent on pushing out the door.
Maybe this is just me, but it seems that usually whenever a new "thing" shows up in comics, and Marvel ends up doing it first, DC will attempt to copy it, and end up going overboard with it. Is it just me who sees this?
DC, as we know, were the publishers of the legendary "dark" series of yore, Watchmen, and Batman: The Dark Knight returns. It seems somedays that they have yet to move past those seres.
And yet, it STILL doesn't make Identity Crisis the worst thing ever. I'd actually struggle to put it in my top 5. And, while I know that Identity Crisis was just a cynical emotional hand job, I think they actually succeeded when it comes to the death of Tim's father. That brought a genuine reaction from me.
I think it might be on the list of worst things to happen to comics, which would be a list of comics that sparked negative trends. Horrible Elseworlds and story arcs that were never spoken of again would not be named, but Identity Crisis might.
Maybe this is just me, but it seems that usually whenever a new "thing" shows up in comics, and Marvel ends up doing it first, DC will attempt to copy it, and end up going overboard with it. Is it just me who sees this?
DC, as we know, were the publishers of the legendary "dark" series of yore, Watchmen, and Batman: The Dark Knight returns. It seems somedays that they have yet to move past those seres.
Marvel's just in their apex of doing the new things. Even still, they kind of pilfer from DC as well (Young Avengers is a TT knockoff, DC brought back the space opera stories which Marvel has since copied)
DC brought back the space opera stories which Marvel has since copied)
Really? How so.
I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited May 2009
DC brought back Hal as GL with a big push, it was very successful. They then returned the GL Corps to it's old ways with a Infinite Crisis tie-in mini, and then had the Rann/Thanagar War mini. During 52, we had the Space Iliad with Adam Strange, Starfire, and Animal Man. GL Corps was then made into an ongoing.
Around this time Marvel realized they should do something with their space characters, and brought Keith Giffen on board to orchestrate the Annihilation event. This was a success, especially in light of the last issue of Civil War being a cop out.
We then had the Sinestro Corps war, which was a very good success, Marvel then created Nova and GotG to be their space books, and are now doing their new space story War of Kings.
DC brought back Hal as GL with a big push, it was very successful. They then returned the GL Corps to it's old ways with a Infinite Crisis tie-in mini, and then had the Rann/Thanagar War mini. During 52, we had the Space Iliad with Adam Strange, Starfire, and Animal Man. GL Corps was then made into an ongoing.
Around this time Marvel realized they should do something with their space characters, and brought Keith Giffen on board to orchestrate the Annihilation event. This was a success, especially in light of the last issue of Civil War being a cop out.
We then had the Sinestro Corps war, which was a very good success, Marvel then created Nova and GotG to be their space books, and are now doing their new space story War of Kings.
and in this one single instance, the fans are the big winners
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited May 2009
Yes, the space stuff in all areas, barring Starlin's messing up of Hawkman's origin, have all been very good. And I was never a space comic person before, but they won me over.
I use to be a hardcore DC fan but even with me not liking Joe Q and thinking some things like the whole MJ/Peter deal with the devil is stupid it's clear that Marvel right now knows what's it's doing unlike DC who is directless and running around in circles. How many stories or problems behind the scenes has popped up since Dido took charge? Way too many and more are bound to happen. Did bringing back characters like Oliver Queen achieve anything? Not really, his title floundered and failed and now he's co starring with Black Canary. Who really believes the GL franchise will continue to be strong once Johns is gone? Sales have dropped since Rebirth once the hype wore away although the big events do boost it right now, it helps that with Johns pull he can insert Hal into anything and everything to make him a great hero.
Not going to last forever. Right now DC is a mess and relying too much on the past and that needs to change, Dido out right lying to fans when other creators have said things differently doesn't help. I'm sure we all believe that Bart Allen was suppose to fail as Flash right? Just to bring back Barry, that's the case according to Dido. If anyone believes that I got a bridge I want to sell them.
As for Identity Crisis, the only real problem I had with that was the whole flame thrower bit, otherwise it was good. It was darn good. If it's one thing I noticed is that comic book fans are damn passionate but they are not use to change very much at all which is a huge problem because as the case currently stands, DC utterly sucks right now trying to cater to a fandom that is living twenty years in the past or more and has an incompetent in charge.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
edited May 2009
The whole Skrull virus disabling Extremis deal. The Extremis process made drastic, permanent changes to Stark's body, you can't just wipe that out with a computer virus.
also
Marvel Zombies 2, 3, and 4
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
The whole Skrull virus disabling Extremis deal. The Extremis process made drastic, permanent changes to Stark's body, you can't just wipe that out with a computer virus.
Well, Dark Reign is pretty stupid as a whole, and they needed a decent-sized plot hole to push Stark into, but it's hardly the worst one recently.
Man, of all the things to complain about, bringing back Ollie Queen is the one you pick? Book was really good for a while there.
To get back to the thread topic, rather than mindless complaining about bad books, the end of Final Crisis was truly absurd. Ok so Superman beats the Big Bad with the power of song for no apparent reason? I'll buy that. But then out of nowhere another Bigger Bad shows up, and no one knows why he's evil or what he's doing there and then Superman fights him in an alternate universe or something and then Team Green Lantern shows up and since he is a vampire they decide to make a giant stake and impale the guy.
That excerpt on Identity Crisis was like a slap in the face at how bad a story that was described to be. But also it and the subchapter before it made me feel like a tool for being one of "those" comic readers.
I love Final Crisis more than almost any other story I can think of, or are least of the last twenty years. Every time I read it or read Morrison talk about it I get sucked into the story and the premise so hard it's ... something.
Man, of all the things to complain about, bringing back Ollie Queen is the one you pick? Book was really good for a while there.
To get back to the thread topic, rather than mindless complaining about bad books, the end of Final Crisis was truly absurd. Ok so Superman beats the Big Bad with the power of song for no apparent reason? I'll buy that. But then out of nowhere another Bigger Bad shows up, and no one knows why he's evil or what he's doing there and then Superman fights him in an alternate universe or something and then Team Green Lantern shows up and since he is a vampire they decide to make a giant stake and impale the guy.
That's pretty absurd.
I read this, and all I can think is 'Morrison being Morrison'. One crazy cat, alrighty.
Again, we've been over this and over this, but I think Final Crisis is the final culmination of Morrison's genius and ego in one explosive piece of art that is, at it's core, almost un-fucking-readable.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Again, we've been over this and over this, but I think Final Crisis is the final culmination of Morrison's genius and ego in one explosive piece of art that is, at it's core, almost un-fucking-readable.
They'll be collected together in the trade though, right?
Yes.
I still can't understand how Carol Danvers went from the Warbird seen in Red Zone to the simpleton Reed wrote.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited May 2009
Final Crisis was Morrison being Morrison. It really shouldn't have been a "Crisis" level event because it didn't feel like it did anything other than kill J'onn and send Batman to the past or another universe. I never felt like Darkseid was truly in control, or that there would be lasting effects. You could even say the "deaths" don't matter with Blackest Night coming up.
If they had released it as a premier hardcover, with Superman Beyond in it from the beginning, it would have been received better. As a whole read it works well, it's a love story to superheros and the genre. As a monthly mini it failed, and that's kind of a big problem when your business is producing a monthly format (also, the delays didn't help).
Infinite Crisis had some worthless tie ins, most notably in the Superman titles, but if Final Crisis was to be the book truly pushing the point that evil had won (if only for a month or two DC time), it had to be shown in the regular books.
If it's one thing I noticed is that comic book fans are damn passionate but they are not use to change very much at all which is a huge problem because as the case currently stands, DC utterly sucks right now trying to cater to a fandom that is living twenty years in the past or more and has an incompetent in charge.
Marvel is doing the exact same thing with Spider-Man, and they will no doubt be bringing Steve Rogers back in July for some foolish reason. Both companies have creators who want to put things back to the way they were when they the creator were reading comics, and that's whats messing everything up.
I would rank FInal Crisis as being worse then Identity Crisis in terms of pure story telling.
There. I said it.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Infinite Crisis had some worthless tie ins, most notably in the Superman titles, but if Final Crisis was to be the book truly pushing the point that evil had won (if only for a month or two DC time), it had to be shown in the regular books.
As a mostly non-DC reader I appreciate that it was as contained as it was because, goddamn, Secret Invasion and Civil War each had over 90 tie-ins and that's fucking nonsense.
There you go. Worst plot-induced stupidity was tying in every goddamn book into an event (SI) that in the end only served as a lead in for an idiotic thematic shift. I can totally see why Bendis wanted it to be an Avengers-only story until other people got their hands on it as it was going to be the big event of 2008.
they will no doubt be bringing Steve Rogers back in July for some foolish reason.
I guarantee you that is not what the Reborn mini will be about.
Infinite Crisis had some worthless tie ins, most notably in the Superman titles, but if Final Crisis was to be the book truly pushing the point that evil had won (if only for a month or two DC time), it had to be shown in the regular books.
As a mostly non-DC reader I appreciate that it was as contained as it was because, goddamn, Secret Invasion and Civil War each had over 90 tie-ins and that's fucking nonsense.
There you go. Worst plot-induced stupidity was tying in every goddamn book into an event (SI) that in the end only served as a lead in for an idiotic thematic shift.
they will no doubt be bringing Steve Rogers back in July for some foolish reason.
I guarantee you that is not what the Reborn mini will be about.
There has to be a middle ground between tie-ing into every book under the sun and being a huge story that is never mentioned in any other book, ever.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
they will no doubt be bringing Steve Rogers back in July for some foolish reason.
I guarantee you that is not what the Reborn mini will be about.
I would love for that to not be the case, because Steve needs to stay Dead. But when Bryan Hitch is put on something, it has to be something worthwhile.
Posts
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
The thing about Mutant X is that it seemed to be written by someone who couldn't remember what was on the previous page. Cap was sometimes a reasonable guy, sometimes apparently a mutant, sometimes a steroid-crazed super-patriot who eats babies. It was just really awful.
Sars, if you're going to rate Ultimates 3 as better than IC there's just no talking to you.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
I'm going to be honest, IC was one of the first DC comics I read when I got back into comics in 2001 outside of some of Kelly's JLA run, so I couldn't really gauge it on anything, and what I remembered from DC comics as a kid all revolved around Robin, Impulse, and Superboy, who were not in the series. Those were the things that annoyed me as someone relatively new to the DCU.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Crisis was bad... but series, either of the Crisis that came after are in contention, as are a bunch of elseworld's stories, some random recent claremont stories, stuff Image put out back in the day, etc.
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
Because some people don't feel like blowing Identity Crisis completely out of proportion?
Was it bad? yes. Was it bad because of what they did in it? Yes. Was it at least a coherent, readable story? Yes.
I understand the hate it gets, but that doesn't make it the worst story ever. Not. Even. Close.
It sucked, and clueless mainstream reviewers crowed from the rooftops about how superhero comics had, under the hand of a real author, finally matured enough to join the rest of the literary community.
Identity Crisis sucked and Tim Drake's dad died, leading into years of stories featuring a character that's less fun and interesting to read about than before IDC.
It sucked and then longtime JLAer Firestorm died, an event that went virtually unnoticed, and served no real purpose other than to set up yet another legacy character.
It sucked and Dr. Light went from being a complex, interesting villain torn between villainy and redemption, who had untold power but not the skill to properly utilize it, to an all-powerful, one-dimensional Snidely Whiplash-like caricature, who couldn't go one appearance without talking about rape, and then was ultimately snuffed offhandedly.
It sucked and Captain Boomerang died, paving the way for a replacement that nobody seems to know what to do with.
It sucked Ralph and Sue Dibny went from plucky detectives to plucky detectives with a dark and terrible secret hidden in their past. A dark and terrible secret that failed to add anything to their characters but a bit of poorly manufactured pathos designed to tug at the heart strings.
It sucked and, years later, we're still paying for it as DC continues to push out more series centered around maiming, killing, raping, or otherwise brutalizing its characters with a smug smile, all the while saying, "Yeah, bet you didn't think we'd go there huh?"
The sense of fun and high adventure that was present in DC's titles under Jeanette Kahn's editorial supervision has been stamped out in favor of a crass, heavy-handed approach to telling "mature" and "important" stories. Ironically, there's very little more immature than all the dramatically overwrought, ultra-violent stories DC seems so intent on pushing out the door.
Tumblr Twitter
Identity Crisis can be given praise for shining light on the DC when it needed it, as at the time Marvel was really punching them around, with their only big selling book being Authority (which then tanked as Millar and Quitley left) and JLA. But in the process it did sell a bit of its soul to get those extra sales and market share. Like The Long Halloween or Hush, it had no substance to it and falls apart as you become more acclimated to the DCU and its history or actually read it as it was billed, as a mystery.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Marvel pulled away again with Civil War, and after the debacle of Final Crisis, DC had nothing to offer. Their load was spent. That's why they're milking Blackest Night beyond what it was originally supposed to be.
And yet, it STILL doesn't make Identity Crisis the worst thing ever. I'd actually struggle to put it in my top 5. And, while I know that Identity Crisis was just a cynical emotional hand job, I think they actually succeeded when it comes to the death of Tim's father. That brought a genuine reaction from me.
Maybe this is just me, but it seems that usually whenever a new "thing" shows up in comics, and Marvel ends up doing it first, DC will attempt to copy it, and end up going overboard with it. Is it just me who sees this?
DC, as we know, were the publishers of the legendary "dark" series of yore, Watchmen, and Batman: The Dark Knight returns. It seems somedays that they have yet to move past those seres.
I think it might be on the list of worst things to happen to comics, which would be a list of comics that sparked negative trends. Horrible Elseworlds and story arcs that were never spoken of again would not be named, but Identity Crisis might.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Marvel's just in their apex of doing the new things. Even still, they kind of pilfer from DC as well (Young Avengers is a TT knockoff, DC brought back the space opera stories which Marvel has since copied)
Really? How so.
I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.
Around this time Marvel realized they should do something with their space characters, and brought Keith Giffen on board to orchestrate the Annihilation event. This was a success, especially in light of the last issue of Civil War being a cop out.
We then had the Sinestro Corps war, which was a very good success, Marvel then created Nova and GotG to be their space books, and are now doing their new space story War of Kings.
and in this one single instance, the fans are the big winners
Not going to last forever. Right now DC is a mess and relying too much on the past and that needs to change, Dido out right lying to fans when other creators have said things differently doesn't help. I'm sure we all believe that Bart Allen was suppose to fail as Flash right? Just to bring back Barry, that's the case according to Dido. If anyone believes that I got a bridge I want to sell them.
As for Identity Crisis, the only real problem I had with that was the whole flame thrower bit, otherwise it was good. It was darn good. If it's one thing I noticed is that comic book fans are damn passionate but they are not use to change very much at all which is a huge problem because as the case currently stands, DC utterly sucks right now trying to cater to a fandom that is living twenty years in the past or more and has an incompetent in charge.
also
Marvel Zombies 2, 3, and 4
Also, it's not as bad as when Tony Stark turned out to have been evil all along and was then replaced by a teenage duplicate. That sounded awful.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
To get back to the thread topic, rather than mindless complaining about bad books, the end of Final Crisis was truly absurd. Ok so Superman beats the Big Bad with the power of song for no apparent reason? I'll buy that. But then out of nowhere another Bigger Bad shows up, and no one knows why he's evil or what he's doing there and then Superman fights him in an alternate universe or something and then Team Green Lantern shows up and since he is a vampire they decide to make a giant stake and impale the guy.
That's pretty absurd.
I love Final Crisis more than almost any other story I can think of, or are least of the last twenty years. Every time I read it or read Morrison talk about it I get sucked into the story and the premise so hard it's ... something.
I read this, and all I can think is 'Morrison being Morrison'. One crazy cat, alrighty.
They'll be collected together in the trade though, right?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
o_O
Whatever. This isn't the place.
Yes.
I still can't understand how Carol Danvers went from the Warbird seen in Red Zone to the simpleton Reed wrote.
If they had released it as a premier hardcover, with Superman Beyond in it from the beginning, it would have been received better. As a whole read it works well, it's a love story to superheros and the genre. As a monthly mini it failed, and that's kind of a big problem when your business is producing a monthly format (also, the delays didn't help).
Infinite Crisis had some worthless tie ins, most notably in the Superman titles, but if Final Crisis was to be the book truly pushing the point that evil had won (if only for a month or two DC time), it had to be shown in the regular books.
Marvel is doing the exact same thing with Spider-Man, and they will no doubt be bringing Steve Rogers back in July for some foolish reason. Both companies have creators who want to put things back to the way they were when they the creator were reading comics, and that's whats messing everything up.
There. I said it.
As a mostly non-DC reader I appreciate that it was as contained as it was because, goddamn, Secret Invasion and Civil War each had over 90 tie-ins and that's fucking nonsense.
There you go. Worst plot-induced stupidity was tying in every goddamn book into an event (SI) that in the end only served as a lead in for an idiotic thematic shift. I can totally see why Bendis wanted it to be an Avengers-only story until other people got their hands on it as it was going to be the big event of 2008.
I guarantee you that is not what the Reborn mini will be about.
There has to be a middle ground between tie-ing into every book under the sun and being a huge story that is never mentioned in any other book, ever.
I would love for that to not be the case, because Steve needs to stay Dead. But when Bryan Hitch is put on something, it has to be something worthwhile.