I will say that there is a next life. And its gonna rock. I've always wondered about people who think that existence just ceases when you die. That's some scary stuff. How do you not freak out when you think about it?
our actions, no matter how little, effect those around us. we won't know how much and we never will, only the living can know how much of an impact the deceased made. so in other words, I'll be remembered. by a handful of people at the least, a whole bunch of people at the most. All I can hope for is that my life and death changed someone for the better.
Keep in mind, I don't wanna die. there's still a lot i'd like to get done and accomplished. death is all about peace. I honestly think of it as nothing more than sleeping without dreams so i consider it more like the rest we get from our time of existence.
People like to believe they'll go to heaven and it'll be awesome and peaceful as well and that you'll get to watch your family for eternity but...i mean, you can't effect them in anyway, you can't talk to them, it sounds pretty much like what's going to happen to me only you're next to your god and singing with angels and crap. it sounds like denial to me.
Don't get me wrong, i strongly wish there was a heaven for no other reason but to meet my heroes. I'd like to see if Douglas adams ever wrote another hitchhiker's guide in heaven, kick bernie mac in the balls for being the worst thing to happen to film, see if tupac is really as intelligent and philosophical as his fans claim he is, and party with john candy and chris farley.
Speaker, the type of sign you are asking for... the type where its what you would call "super difinitive"...
they are only for those who are hard hearted and don't believe and who ask for signs like they think they should be. when one asks for a sign, its always to their detriment. for example: your signature.
call the experience that obifett had a coincidence all you want. but God doesn't need to show signs like WE want Him to. Who are we to tell HIM what to do?
the reason the old testament is repleate with them is because His people were so hard hearted. Whereas you only find a few of those examples in the new testament. And even then, the Isrealites saw HOW many signs? and it took 40 years for all the people who didnt believe Moses and that he was a prophet to die and be cycled out before the Lord let them into the promised land. Giving a sign doesnt mean immediate obedience. Wouldn't you think that seeing a WHOLE sea be parted and have DRY ground on the bottom as a sign of Moses's direction from God, be enough to have immediate belief and obedience?
i'm just saying, go ahead and look for and ask for those signs, but its not a good thing. A relationship with God is extremely personal and He shows you "signs" of His own volition and type. And if you are unwilling to accept personal and amazing signs then why would you accept a huge one? Either you want to believe (or already believe) or you don't. Even so, He cares enough to keep trying to show you signs if you will watch and listen; that's just who He is: always inviting.
I will say that there is a next life. And its gonna rock. I've always wondered about people who think that existence just ceases when you die. That's some scary stuff. How do you not freak out when you think about it?
our actions, no matter how little, effect those around us. we won't know how much and we never will, only the living can know how much of an impact the deceased made. so in other words, I'll be remembered. by a handful of people at the least, a whole bunch of people at the most. All I can hope for is that my life and death changed someone for the better.
Keep in mind, I don't wanna die. there's still a lot i'd like to get done and accomplished. death is all about peace. I honestly think of it as nothing more than sleeping without dreams so i consider it more like the rest we get from our time of existence.
People like to believe they'll go to heaven and it'll be awesome and peaceful as well and that you'll get to watch your family for eternity but...i mean, you can't effect them in anyway, you can't talk to them, it sounds pretty much like what's going to happen to me only you're next to your god and singing with angels and crap. it sounds like denial to me.
Don't get me wrong, i strongly wish there was a heaven for no other reason but to meet my heroes. I'd like to see if Douglas adams ever wrote another hitchhiker's guide in heaven, kick bernie mac in the balls for being the worst thing to happen to film, see if tupac is really as intelligent and philosophical as his fans claim he is, and party with john candy and chris farley.
hey inter.... whats really cool is that heaven isnt just sitting around, sitting next to God, and signing all the time. its a time to do all sorts of things. like learn pretty much EVERYTHING. And, with that knowledge, you get to do all kinds of awesome stuff. You're right, if all we did was sit around doing nothing, it sucks. But if you are alive for eternity and your family passes even 100 years after you, in the long run thats like... so much less than an eye blink. Yeah, you may not get to go and talk to them for that time that shooooort time, but you get to be with them and help them and do stuff with them for the rest of eternity. thats part of why obifett said that its going rock. dude, cause it WILL.
Speaker, the type of sign you are asking for... the type where its what you would call "super difinitive"...
they are only for those who are hard hearted and don't believe and who ask for signs like they think they should be. when one asks for a sign, its always to their detriment. for example: your signature.
call the experience that obifett had a coincidence all you want. but God doesn't need to show signs like WE want Him to. Who are we to tell HIM what to do?
the reason the old testament is repleate with them is because His people were so hard hearted. Whereas you only find a few of those examples in the new testament. And even then, the Isrealites saw HOW many signs? and it took 40 years for all the people who didnt believe Moses and that he was a prophet to die and be cycled out before the Lord let them into the promised land. Giving a sign doesnt mean immediate obedience. Wouldn't you think that seeing a WHOLE sea be parted and have DRY ground on the bottom as a sign of Moses's direction from God, be enough to have immediate belief and obedience?
i'm just saying, go ahead and look for and ask for those signs, but its not a good thing. A relationship with God is extremely personal and He shows you "signs" of His own volition and type. And if you are unwilling to accept personal and amazing signs then why would you accept a huge one? Either you want to believe (or already believe) or you don't. Even so, He cares enough to keep trying to show you signs if you will watch and listen; that's just who He is: always inviting.
i'm sorry, dude, but a pillar of fire in my living room that doesn't burn anything is kinda hard to ignore even for an atheist. apparently, your god isn't hard up for followers.
Speaker, the type of sign you are asking for... the type where its what you would call "super difinitive"...
they are only for those who are hard hearted and don't believe and who ask for signs like they think they should be. when one asks for a sign, its always to their detriment. for example: your signature.
call the experience that obifett had a coincidence all you want. but God doesn't need to show signs like WE want Him to. Who are we to tell HIM what to do?
the reason the old testament is repleate with them is because His people were so hard hearted. Whereas you only find a few of those examples in the new testament. And even then, the Isrealites saw HOW many signs? and it took 40 years for all the people who didnt believe Moses and that he was a prophet to die and be cycled out before the Lord let them into the promised land. Giving a sign doesnt mean immediate obedience. Wouldn't you think that seeing a WHOLE sea be parted and have DRY ground on the bottom as a sign of Moses's direction from God, be enough to have immediate belief and obedience?
i'm just saying, go ahead and look for and ask for those signs, but its not a good thing. A relationship with God is extremely personal and He shows you "signs" of His own volition and type. And if you are unwilling to accept personal and amazing signs then why would you accept a huge one? Either you want to believe (or already believe) or you don't. Even so, He cares enough to keep trying to show you signs if you will watch and listen; that's just who He is: always inviting.
Psh. Pillars of fire in the desert? Marshy areas parting?
I guess that would be impressive, if you're a hick desert nomad of the bronze age. Pretty lame compared to the miracles that the Hindu Gods did, though. One wonders why you don't believe in Lord Vishnu. His avatar can pick up and throw a mountain and then shoot the thrown mountain into pieces.
I will say that there is a next life. And its gonna rock. I've always wondered about people who think that existence just ceases when you die. That's some scary stuff. How do you not freak out when you think about it?
our actions, no matter how little, effect those around us. we won't know how much and we never will, only the living can know how much of an impact the deceased made. so in other words, I'll be remembered. by a handful of people at the least, a whole bunch of people at the most. All I can hope for is that my life and death changed someone for the better.
Keep in mind, I don't wanna die. there's still a lot i'd like to get done and accomplished. death is all about peace. I honestly think of it as nothing more than sleeping without dreams so i consider it more like the rest we get from our time of existence.
People like to believe they'll go to heaven and it'll be awesome and peaceful as well and that you'll get to watch your family for eternity but...i mean, you can't effect them in anyway, you can't talk to them, it sounds pretty much like what's going to happen to me only you're next to your god and singing with angels and crap. it sounds like denial to me.
Don't get me wrong, i strongly wish there was a heaven for no other reason but to meet my heroes. I'd like to see if Douglas adams ever wrote another hitchhiker's guide in heaven, kick bernie mac in the balls for being the worst thing to happen to film, see if tupac is really as intelligent and philosophical as his fans claim he is, and party with john candy and chris farley.
hey inter.... whats really cool is that heaven isnt just sitting around, sitting next to God, and signing all the time. its a time to do all sorts of things. like learn pretty much EVERYTHING. And, with that knowledge, you get to do all kinds of awesome stuff. You're right, if all we did was sit around doing nothing, it sucks. But if you are alive for eternity and your family passes even 100 years after you, in the long run thats like... so much less than an eye blink. Yeah, you may not get to go and talk to them for that time that shooooort time, but you get to be with them and help them and do stuff with them for the rest of eternity. thats part of why obifett said that its going rock. dude, cause it WILL.
right, i guess he'll go to the heaven library and learn everything while his family slowly dies off and joins him in his learning....and then they learn everything....then what? I guess our souls have infinite memory right? but what about those other religions? do they get to be in your heaven? will you totally be friends with the 9/11 bombers? i mean by your standards they'd be burning in hell but by their standards they'd be dropping by with their harem of virgins to say "whazzup?"
i'm sorry, but all that just sounds like wishful thinking. especially since you're completely guessing as to what your heaven will be like and going on old writings from men who had no concept of modern science and living til 30 was an accomplishment on it's own. i'm not guessing, i can go to the graveyard and know that the remains of what was my grandfather is in the ground but the man i grew up with and loved is gone forever. he had a good life though, i can't fault the man, he earned his eternal rest but he is not watching me from some ethereal realm and if he did, he must have accidentally glimpsed my horribly kinky sex life and that's his damn bad for watching, the perv.
like learn pretty much EVERYTHING. And, with that knowledge, you get to do all kinds of awesome stuff. You're right, if all we did was sit around doing nothing, it sucks.
I take it there will be an infinite amount of awesome stuff to do? Because if there's a finite amount of stuff to do, you'll still spend infinity being bored out of your skull.
Then again... how do you do things if you don't have a body? You can just... think a lot, I guess, but that's about it (assuming that souls somehow have minds even though they don't have a brain). Then again, many say you get given a new body, but that must mean Heaven is a material place that actually exists so there must be some way to detect it. Unless Heaven is 'outside the universe', but how are the souls of the dead transported all the way over there? Does that happen automatically somehow? Do angels run a kind of taxi service like valkyries?
Not that I expect answers to these questions, obviously. At least... no answers with some solid non-Scriptural evidence behind them.
like learn pretty much EVERYTHING. And, with that knowledge, you get to do all kinds of awesome stuff. You're right, if all we did was sit around doing nothing, it sucks.
I take it there will be an infinite amount of awesome stuff to do? Because if there's a finite amount of stuff to do, you'll still spend infinity being bored out of your skull.
Then again... how do you do things if you don't have a body? You can just... think a lot, I guess, but that's about it (assuming that souls somehow have minds even though they don't have a brain). Then again, many say you get given a new body, but that must mean Heaven is a material place that actually exists so there must be some way to detect it. Unless Heaven is 'outside the universe', but how are the souls of the dead transported all the way over there? Does that happen automatically somehow? Do angels run a kind of taxi service like valkyries?
Not that I expect answers to these questions, obviously. At least... no answers with some solid non-Scriptural evidence behind them.
I'm assuming it will be like the good version of the Matrix.
Which, incidentally, means that if the Singularity actually happens as prophecied by Ray Kurzweil, it negates the need for heaven fantasies like this one.
they are only for those who are hard hearted and don't believe and who ask for signs like they think they should be. when one asks for a sign, its always to their detriment. for example: your signature.
they are only for those who are hard hearted and don't believe and who ask for signs like they think they should be. when one asks for a sign, its always to their detriment. for example: your signature.
God sure seems to be a bit of a dick.
He is of course referring to Yahweh, the only deity in any religion I know of that actually commands his followers to commit genocide. So, yeah.
Speaker, the type of sign you are asking for... the type where its what you would call "super difinitive"...
they are only for those who are hard hearted and don't believe and who ask for signs like they think they should be. when one asks for a sign, its always to their detriment. for example: your signature.
call the experience that obifett had a coincidence all you want. but God doesn't need to show signs like WE want Him to. Who are we to tell HIM what to do?
the reason the old testament is repleate with them is because His people were so hard hearted. Whereas you only find a few of those examples in the new testament. And even then, the Isrealites saw HOW many signs? and it took 40 years for all the people who didnt believe Moses and that he was a prophet to die and be cycled out before the Lord let them into the promised land. Giving a sign doesnt mean immediate obedience. Wouldn't you think that seeing a WHOLE sea be parted and have DRY ground on the bottom as a sign of Moses's direction from God, be enough to have immediate belief and obedience?
i'm just saying, go ahead and look for and ask for those signs, but its not a good thing. A relationship with God is extremely personal and He shows you "signs" of His own volition and type. And if you are unwilling to accept personal and amazing signs then why would you accept a huge one? Either you want to believe (or already believe) or you don't. Even so, He cares enough to keep trying to show you signs if you will watch and listen; that's just who He is: always inviting.
This is so irrational it makes my head hurt. And the bible is not a reliable source to reference. Go read "Jesus, Interrupted".
Back on topic:
I want to die fully awake, head on and excited.
Preferably at an old age, skydiving, while having sex with triplets.
No, seriously tubaloth, weigh in on your views on other religions. i assume you realise there is more than just yours, so just let me get some clarifications for a non-believer.
first off, are they wrong? if not, is their god secretly your god? if not, then does that mean that there's a whole pantheon of gods with their own individual followers? if that's the case, then can i find my own gods or godesses to worship and answer my prayers? if so, is there an infinite amount of deities in some far off plane of existence that we mere mortals can choose from?
if they're wrong, what makes yours right? how do you know it's not actually another god from another religion doing all these wonderful things for you? if there is only one almighty god, how do you know it's not the islamic god? because you feel it? what about islamic followers who feel it?
Preferably at an old age, skydiving, while having sex with triplets.
I'm not sure I want to know the answer here, but...
How? How do you have sex with three others while skydiving? It seems physically impossible. How are you going to manage this?
upon consideration having sex with triplets wouldn't be that great as opposed to having sex with three distinct individuals. So I'll change that scenario to a blonde preppy girl, a nerdy redhead with glasses, and a black haired biker girl with tattoos and peircings.
Preferably at an old age, skydiving, while having sex with triplets.
I'm not sure I want to know the answer here, but...
How? How do you have sex with three others while skydiving? It seems physically impossible. How are you going to manage this?
upon consideration having sex with triplets wouldn't be that great as opposed to having sex with three distinct individuals. So I'll change that scenario to a blonde preppy girl, a nerdy redhead with glasses, and a black haired biker girl with tattoos and peircings.
are they supposed to die with you? if not, can i have them?
Speaker, the type of sign you are asking for... the type where its what you would call "super difinitive"...
they are only for those who are hard hearted and don't believe and who ask for signs like they think they should be. when one asks for a sign, its always to their detriment. for example: your signature.
call the experience that obifett had a coincidence all you want. but God doesn't need to show signs like WE want Him to. Who are we to tell HIM what to do?
First of all - Khorah's little children were hard hearted? The first born child of every Egyptian was hard hearted? The thousands who followed Moses into the desert for years only to be blasted by divine fire or plague were hard hearted?
That's a pretty callous sentiment. I find I'm having a hard time accepting it when I imagine the terrified rolling eyes of a six year old as he suffocates to death ten feet under the earth because God is punishing him for his father's political theology.
In any case, I take it the flaw in the doctrine that anything can be a sign from God is obvious to you: that if you are constantly looking for anything you will find it.
For instance, we've all had the experience of learning a new word and then suddenly noticing that that word is everywhere. The hum drum of existence is constant, the patterns in what we notice depend in large part on what we look for.
Preferably at an old age, skydiving, while having sex with triplets.
I'm not sure I want to know the answer here, but...
How? How do you have sex with three others while skydiving? It seems physically impossible. How are you going to manage this?
upon consideration having sex with triplets wouldn't be that great as opposed to having sex with three distinct individuals. So I'll change that scenario to a blonde preppy girl, a nerdy redhead with glasses, and a black haired biker girl with tattoos and peircings.
are they supposed to die with you? if not, can i have them?
they'll hit their chutes after I have a heartattack while cumming in last one. So can have them.
I will say that there is a next life. And its gonna rock. I've always wondered about people who think that existence just ceases when you die. That's some scary stuff. How do you not freak out when you think about it?
our actions, no matter how little, effect those around us. we won't know how much and we never will, only the living can know how much of an impact the deceased made. so in other words, I'll be remembered. by a handful of people at the least, a whole bunch of people at the most. All I can hope for is that my life and death changed someone for the better.
Keep in mind, I don't wanna die. there's still a lot i'd like to get done and accomplished. death is all about peace. I honestly think of it as nothing more than sleeping without dreams so i consider it more like the rest we get from our time of existence.
People like to believe they'll go to heaven and it'll be awesome and peaceful as well and that you'll get to watch your family for eternity but...i mean, you can't effect them in anyway, you can't talk to them, it sounds pretty much like what's going to happen to me only you're next to your god and singing with angels and crap. it sounds like denial to me.
Don't get me wrong, i strongly wish there was a heaven for no other reason but to meet my heroes. I'd like to see if Douglas adams ever wrote another hitchhiker's guide in heaven, kick bernie mac in the balls for being the worst thing to happen to film, see if tupac is really as intelligent and philosophical as his fans claim he is, and party with john candy and chris farley.
hey inter.... whats really cool is that heaven isnt just sitting around, sitting next to God, and signing all the time. its a time to do all sorts of things. like learn pretty much EVERYTHING. And, with that knowledge, you get to do all kinds of awesome stuff. You're right, if all we did was sit around doing nothing, it sucks. But if you are alive for eternity and your family passes even 100 years after you, in the long run thats like... so much less than an eye blink. Yeah, you may not get to go and talk to them for that time that shooooort time, but you get to be with them and help them and do stuff with them for the rest of eternity. thats part of why obifett said that its going rock. dude, cause it WILL.
What if I don't want to exist for all eternity? Is heaven going to allow me to leave and cease to be? Because if I'm forced to exist forever, that sounds like hell.
What if I don't want to exist for all eternity? Is heaven going to allow me to leave and cease to be? Because if I'm forced to exist forever, that sounds like hell.
Oh, come on now.
You will not be you as you are currently. You will be you sans body and outside time.
This kind of objection to heaven is just a poor lack of imagination.
hey inter.... whats really cool is that heaven isnt just sitting around, sitting next to God, and signing all the time. its a time to do all sorts of things. like learn pretty much EVERYTHING. And, with that knowledge, you get to do all kinds of awesome stuff. You're right, if all we did was sit around doing nothing, it sucks. But if you are alive for eternity and your family passes even 100 years after you, in the long run thats like... so much less than an eye blink. Yeah, you may not get to go and talk to them for that time that shooooort time, but you get to be with them and help them and do stuff with them for the rest of eternity. thats part of why obifett said that its going rock. dude, cause it WILL.
This is truly a bizarre thing, and demonstrates that there is no grasp here of your own religion's theology. Heaven is not, "like, learning pretty much everything" and getting "to do all kinds of awesome stuff." I don't even believe Heaven exists and I know that's not what Christian Heaven is supposed to be like.
These kinds of Heaven narratives are for children, or for the simple-minded people from hundreds or thousands of years ago who had no time or imagination for anything more profound. Like "all your favourite toys and people and friends and foods are there! And you can just do whatever you want and you never get tired or sad or anything!" This is an absurd, childish, very limited idea of what a metaphysical spiritual paradise would be.
Most of the current Heaven-related stuff I've read simply describes it as inconceivable, beyond understanding, or attempts to describe it as eternal, unimaginable ecstasy simply by being in the fullness of the presence of God, a mode of existence beside which hanging out with your friends pales by comparison. At least this kind of Heaven, absurd as it is, at least attempts to move beyond "it will be just like the real world only really great!" which simply betrays a lack of imagination, as well as a lack of understanding of what "spirituality" actually means for people who believe and have grasped the concepts that underly their beliefs.
Most of the current Heaven-related stuff I've read simply describes it as inconceivable, beyond understanding, or attempts to describe it as eternal, unimaginable ecstasy simply by being in the fullness of the presence of God, a mode of existence beside which hanging out with your friends pales by comparison. At least this kind of Heaven, absurd as it is, at least attempts to move beyond "it will be just like the real world only really great!" which simply betrays a lack of imagination, as well as a lack of understanding of what "spirituality" actually means for people who believe and have grasped the concepts that underly their beliefs.
Pretty fucking sure I'd feel more ecstasy from orgasming constantly for 4 hours than picking lint out of God's beard.
I guess everyone has their own Heaven. I don't want my fanatic zealot of a godmother's version of Heaven (she visits Medjugorje once a year). I want kinky.
Basically, I guess I'm hoping my consciousness will detach from my corporeal form upon death, and live forever in my very own fantasy world. I guess that vague description could also be applied to anyone else's ideal of Heaven.
Boy, am I going to be pissed if I get told I'm coming back. Think deicide.
This is truly a bizarre thing, and demonstrates that there is no grasp here of your own religion's theology. Heaven is not, "like, learning pretty much everything" and getting "to do all kinds of awesome stuff." I don't even believe Heaven exists and I know that's not what Christian Heaven is supposed to be like.
Actually, this shows your lack of understanding of other religions' theology. The LDS idea of Heaven is that you will learn and progress for eternity. This can eventually mean you will progress to the current level God is at right now. Kinda comes from the rational thought process that although we were babies at one point we eventually grow up to take on the responsibilities and knowledge of our parents. Why would it not be that way on the eternal level? Especially since the Christian faith claims we are Children of God.
Either way, there are many variations found within the Christian faith of what Heaven is like.
This is truly a bizarre thing, and demonstrates that there is no grasp here of your own religion's theology. Heaven is not, "like, learning pretty much everything" and getting "to do all kinds of awesome stuff." I don't even believe Heaven exists and I know that's not what Christian Heaven is supposed to be like.
Actually, this shows your lack of understanding of other religions' theology. The LDS idea of Heaven is that you will learn and progress for eternity. This can eventually mean you will progress to the current level God is at right now. Kinda comes from the rational thought process that although we were babies at one point we eventually grow up to take on the responsibilities and knowledge of our parents. Why would it not be that way on the eternal level? Especially since the Christian faith claims we are Children of God.
Either way, there are many variations found within the Christian faith of what Heaven is like.
Yeah, totally, Heaven is that. And skateboarding like, anywhere you want! Did you read his post? I am objecting to his Sunday school lies-to-children depiction of heaven.
And I am fairly sure that no Judeo-Christian religion of any kind at all suggests that you can "progress to the current level God is at right now," not without ignoring the very definition of God.
Any human definition of Heaven is by definition inadequate and at best figurative; otherwise you are demonstrating unimaginable arrogance and presuming to be capable of understanding the infinite and the divine, which, of course, no one can. Especially not in a way that could be expressed by language.
And I am fairly sure that no Judeo-Christian religion of any kind at all suggests that you can "progress to the current level God is at right now," not without ignoring the very definition of God.
im kinda confused. what is your definition of God?
And I am fairly sure that no Judeo-Christian religion of any kind at all suggests that you can "progress to the current level God is at right now," not without ignoring the very definition of God.
im kinda confused. what is your definition of God?
And I am fairly sure that no Judeo-Christian religion of any kind at all suggests that you can "progress to the current level God is at right now," not without ignoring the very definition of God.
im kinda confused. what is your definition of God?
dont you not believe in God?
i think you're missing the point which is if were accepting that you can "progress to the current level god is at right now" then there would be millions of godlike beings and the original god couldn't do shit because it'd be dealing with other beings with powers and knowledge like its own and if there is millions and millions of godlike beings than why aren't they dicking around on earth, doing all kinds of miracles, or destroying anything they want?
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Yeah, totally, Heaven is that. And skateboarding like, anywhere you want! Did you read his post? I am objecting to his Sunday school lies-to-children depiction of heaven.
And I am fairly sure that no Judeo-Christian religion of any kind at all suggests that you can "progress to the current level God is at right now," not without ignoring the very definition of God.
Any human definition of Heaven is by definition inadequate and at best figurative; otherwise you are demonstrating unimaginable arrogance and presuming to be capable of understanding the infinite and the divine, which, of course, no one can. Especially not in a way that could be expressed by language.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is considered Judeo-Christian and it is believed that man has the capability to progress and be like God. It doesn't mean they will ever surpass him (like we can't all of a sudden get older or have more experience than our parents). But it is believed that as his children we are heirs in literally every respect. God is still omniscient and omnipotent. So other than the constant debate of the actual physical nature of God that is always happening within the Christian world, I'm not sure how that viewpoint ignores the very definition of the Christian God.
And I agree with you completely that and human definition of Heaven is completely inadequate. Especially when trying to describe the experience, sight, sounds, or feelings associated with such a place. That doesn't preclude our ability to understand the purpose of such a place, however. At least not the initial purpose of such a place.
And I am fairly sure that no Judeo-Christian religion of any kind at all suggests that you can "progress to the current level God is at right now," not without ignoring the very definition of God.
im kinda confused. what is your definition of God?
dont you not believe in God?
not to be rude, but please stop talking.
lol
no
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
And I am fairly sure that no Judeo-Christian religion of any kind at all suggests that you can "progress to the current level God is at right now," not without ignoring the very definition of God.
im kinda confused. what is your definition of God?
dont you not believe in God?
i think you're missing the point which is if were accepting that you can "progress to the current level god is at right now" then there would be millions of godlike beings and the original god couldn't do shit because it'd be dealing with other beings with powers and knowledge like its own and if there is millions and millions of godlike beings than why aren't they dicking around on earth, doing all kinds of miracles, or destroying anything they want?
Cuz its assumed that the ability progress to that point consists of said person understanding justice, mercy, order, and love.
And I am fairly sure that no Judeo-Christian religion of any kind at all suggests that you can "progress to the current level God is at right now," not without ignoring the very definition of God.
im kinda confused. what is your definition of God?
dont you not believe in God?
i think you're missing the point which is if were accepting that you can "progress to the current level god is at right now" then there would be millions of godlike beings and the original god couldn't do shit because it'd be dealing with other beings with powers and knowledge like its own and if there is millions and millions of godlike beings than why aren't they dicking around on earth, doing all kinds of miracles, or destroying anything they want?
dude, answer my question though. what is your definition of God that precludes anyone from becoming like God?
btw. you're right, if the scenario you put forth were true, it would be crazy. but just like there is order in the universe, there is order in the Kingdom of God. So anyone who becomes like God is not allowed to run amuck and do whatever he/she wants to do. and always we are under God's rule/direction/etc. so if someone who had taken the bagillion years it will take comes over to this side of the universe, they will obey God. also, anyone who is worthy to be like God will be of the same mind and heart as God and, so, will do nothing contrary to His will.
And I am fairly sure that no Judeo-Christian religion of any kind at all suggests that you can "progress to the current level God is at right now," not without ignoring the very definition of God.
im kinda confused. what is your definition of God?
dont you not believe in God?
not to be rude, but please stop talking.
lol
no
why should i stop talking?
i just feel that as an athiest, you have no right to limit and define what I believe is God since you dont believe in Him. Its just as arrogant as you believe I am being.
And I am fairly sure that no Judeo-Christian religion of any kind at all suggests that you can "progress to the current level God is at right now," not without ignoring the very definition of God.
im kinda confused. what is your definition of God?
dont you not believe in God?
not to be rude, but please stop talking.
lol
no
why should i stop talking?
i just feel that as an athiest, you have no right to limit and define what I believe is God since you dont believe in Him. Its just as arrogant as you believe I am being.
you=you all, not specifically and only you.
I was referring to the fact that you speak as if English is your third language, its literally hard to read and your sentences don't quite make sense... you don't need to quote yourself, you can edit your previous post btw....
I was referring to the fact that you speak as if English is your third language, its literally hard to read and your sentences don't quite make sense... you don't need to quote yourself, you can edit your previous post btw....
pot, kettle, ah, fuck it
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I was referring to the fact that you speak as if English is your third language, its literally hard to read and your sentences don't quite make sense... you don't need to quote yourself, you can edit your previous post btw....
I was referring to the fact that you speak as if English is your third language, its literally hard to read and your sentences don't quite make sense... you don't need to quote yourself, you can edit your previous post btw....
pot, kettle, ah, fuck it
teehee
i know i dont have to quote myself.
but thank you for the free lesson.
were you able to understand those two sentences? just curious. a.p.p,a r ently i m' ha _r88d to u`nd"ers<>t:an;d1
That doesn't preclude our ability to understand the purpose of such a place, however. At least not the initial purpose of such a place.
No, we can speculate upon its purpose.
Of course, since we apparently are entirely incapable of articulating just what it is in the first place and just what happens there, such speculation must be very tentative.
Keep the purse flinging to PMs. I come here for entertainment, not idiot-offs.
Someone freshen my mind. Why are we talking about Heaven, since:
a.) everyone has a different idea of Heaven; even people belonging to the same faith visualize it as completely different things.
b.) nobody (that is deemed clinically sane by society) has ever been there and come back.
So, erm.
evilintent on
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
dude, answer my question though. what is your definition of God that precludes anyone from becoming like God?
Omnipotence. No two beings capable of disagreement could simultaneously be omnipotent. Only one (or neither) could prevail: in either case, it would imply that they were not both omnipotent. Since omnipotence is part of the Christian theology, it's not like this is a particularly weird conception of god to cite.
As per death, I like Lucretius' approach:
“Look back now and consider how the bygone ages of eternity that elapsed before our birth were nothing to us. Here, then, is a mirror in which nature shows us the time to come after our death. Do you see anything fearful in it? Do you perceive anything grim? Does it not appear more peaceful than the deepest sleep?†(De Rerum Natura 3.972-6)."
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our actions, no matter how little, effect those around us. we won't know how much and we never will, only the living can know how much of an impact the deceased made. so in other words, I'll be remembered. by a handful of people at the least, a whole bunch of people at the most. All I can hope for is that my life and death changed someone for the better.
Keep in mind, I don't wanna die. there's still a lot i'd like to get done and accomplished. death is all about peace. I honestly think of it as nothing more than sleeping without dreams so i consider it more like the rest we get from our time of existence.
People like to believe they'll go to heaven and it'll be awesome and peaceful as well and that you'll get to watch your family for eternity but...i mean, you can't effect them in anyway, you can't talk to them, it sounds pretty much like what's going to happen to me only you're next to your god and singing with angels and crap. it sounds like denial to me.
Don't get me wrong, i strongly wish there was a heaven for no other reason but to meet my heroes. I'd like to see if Douglas adams ever wrote another hitchhiker's guide in heaven, kick bernie mac in the balls for being the worst thing to happen to film, see if tupac is really as intelligent and philosophical as his fans claim he is, and party with john candy and chris farley.
they are only for those who are hard hearted and don't believe and who ask for signs like they think they should be. when one asks for a sign, its always to their detriment. for example: your signature.
call the experience that obifett had a coincidence all you want. but God doesn't need to show signs like WE want Him to. Who are we to tell HIM what to do?
the reason the old testament is repleate with them is because His people were so hard hearted. Whereas you only find a few of those examples in the new testament. And even then, the Isrealites saw HOW many signs? and it took 40 years for all the people who didnt believe Moses and that he was a prophet to die and be cycled out before the Lord let them into the promised land. Giving a sign doesnt mean immediate obedience. Wouldn't you think that seeing a WHOLE sea be parted and have DRY ground on the bottom as a sign of Moses's direction from God, be enough to have immediate belief and obedience?
i'm just saying, go ahead and look for and ask for those signs, but its not a good thing. A relationship with God is extremely personal and He shows you "signs" of His own volition and type. And if you are unwilling to accept personal and amazing signs then why would you accept a huge one? Either you want to believe (or already believe) or you don't. Even so, He cares enough to keep trying to show you signs if you will watch and listen; that's just who He is: always inviting.
hey inter.... whats really cool is that heaven isnt just sitting around, sitting next to God, and signing all the time. its a time to do all sorts of things. like learn pretty much EVERYTHING. And, with that knowledge, you get to do all kinds of awesome stuff. You're right, if all we did was sit around doing nothing, it sucks. But if you are alive for eternity and your family passes even 100 years after you, in the long run thats like... so much less than an eye blink. Yeah, you may not get to go and talk to them for that time that shooooort time, but you get to be with them and help them and do stuff with them for the rest of eternity. thats part of why obifett said that its going rock. dude, cause it WILL.
i'm sorry, dude, but a pillar of fire in my living room that doesn't burn anything is kinda hard to ignore even for an atheist. apparently, your god isn't hard up for followers.
i guess his quota was filled centuries ago.
I guess that would be impressive, if you're a hick desert nomad of the bronze age. Pretty lame compared to the miracles that the Hindu Gods did, though. One wonders why you don't believe in Lord Vishnu. His avatar can pick up and throw a mountain and then shoot the thrown mountain into pieces.
right, i guess he'll go to the heaven library and learn everything while his family slowly dies off and joins him in his learning....and then they learn everything....then what? I guess our souls have infinite memory right? but what about those other religions? do they get to be in your heaven? will you totally be friends with the 9/11 bombers? i mean by your standards they'd be burning in hell but by their standards they'd be dropping by with their harem of virgins to say "whazzup?"
i'm sorry, but all that just sounds like wishful thinking. especially since you're completely guessing as to what your heaven will be like and going on old writings from men who had no concept of modern science and living til 30 was an accomplishment on it's own. i'm not guessing, i can go to the graveyard and know that the remains of what was my grandfather is in the ground but the man i grew up with and loved is gone forever. he had a good life though, i can't fault the man, he earned his eternal rest but he is not watching me from some ethereal realm and if he did, he must have accidentally glimpsed my horribly kinky sex life and that's his damn bad for watching, the perv.
Then again... how do you do things if you don't have a body? You can just... think a lot, I guess, but that's about it (assuming that souls somehow have minds even though they don't have a brain). Then again, many say you get given a new body, but that must mean Heaven is a material place that actually exists so there must be some way to detect it. Unless Heaven is 'outside the universe', but how are the souls of the dead transported all the way over there? Does that happen automatically somehow? Do angels run a kind of taxi service like valkyries?
Not that I expect answers to these questions, obviously. At least... no answers with some solid non-Scriptural evidence behind them.
Which, incidentally, means that if the Singularity actually happens as prophecied by Ray Kurzweil, it negates the need for heaven fantasies like this one.
This is so irrational it makes my head hurt. And the bible is not a reliable source to reference. Go read "Jesus, Interrupted".
Back on topic:
I want to die fully awake, head on and excited.
Preferably at an old age, skydiving, while having sex with triplets.
How? How do you have sex with three others while skydiving? It seems physically impossible. How are you going to manage this?
first off, are they wrong? if not, is their god secretly your god? if not, then does that mean that there's a whole pantheon of gods with their own individual followers? if that's the case, then can i find my own gods or godesses to worship and answer my prayers? if so, is there an infinite amount of deities in some far off plane of existence that we mere mortals can choose from?
if they're wrong, what makes yours right? how do you know it's not actually another god from another religion doing all these wonderful things for you? if there is only one almighty god, how do you know it's not the islamic god? because you feel it? what about islamic followers who feel it?
upon consideration having sex with triplets wouldn't be that great as opposed to having sex with three distinct individuals. So I'll change that scenario to a blonde preppy girl, a nerdy redhead with glasses, and a black haired biker girl with tattoos and peircings.
are they supposed to die with you? if not, can i have them?
First of all - Khorah's little children were hard hearted? The first born child of every Egyptian was hard hearted? The thousands who followed Moses into the desert for years only to be blasted by divine fire or plague were hard hearted?
That's a pretty callous sentiment. I find I'm having a hard time accepting it when I imagine the terrified rolling eyes of a six year old as he suffocates to death ten feet under the earth because God is punishing him for his father's political theology.
In any case, I take it the flaw in the doctrine that anything can be a sign from God is obvious to you: that if you are constantly looking for anything you will find it.
For instance, we've all had the experience of learning a new word and then suddenly noticing that that word is everywhere. The hum drum of existence is constant, the patterns in what we notice depend in large part on what we look for.
they'll hit their chutes after I have a heartattack while cumming in last one. So can have them.
What if I don't want to exist for all eternity? Is heaven going to allow me to leave and cease to be? Because if I'm forced to exist forever, that sounds like hell.
Oh, come on now.
You will not be you as you are currently. You will be you sans body and outside time.
This kind of objection to heaven is just a poor lack of imagination.
I would like to die content. The outer circumstances don't matter.
This is truly a bizarre thing, and demonstrates that there is no grasp here of your own religion's theology. Heaven is not, "like, learning pretty much everything" and getting "to do all kinds of awesome stuff." I don't even believe Heaven exists and I know that's not what Christian Heaven is supposed to be like.
These kinds of Heaven narratives are for children, or for the simple-minded people from hundreds or thousands of years ago who had no time or imagination for anything more profound. Like "all your favourite toys and people and friends and foods are there! And you can just do whatever you want and you never get tired or sad or anything!" This is an absurd, childish, very limited idea of what a metaphysical spiritual paradise would be.
Most of the current Heaven-related stuff I've read simply describes it as inconceivable, beyond understanding, or attempts to describe it as eternal, unimaginable ecstasy simply by being in the fullness of the presence of God, a mode of existence beside which hanging out with your friends pales by comparison. At least this kind of Heaven, absurd as it is, at least attempts to move beyond "it will be just like the real world only really great!" which simply betrays a lack of imagination, as well as a lack of understanding of what "spirituality" actually means for people who believe and have grasped the concepts that underly their beliefs.
Pretty fucking sure I'd feel more ecstasy from orgasming constantly for 4 hours than picking lint out of God's beard.
I guess everyone has their own Heaven. I don't want my fanatic zealot of a godmother's version of Heaven (she visits Medjugorje once a year). I want kinky.
Basically, I guess I'm hoping my consciousness will detach from my corporeal form upon death, and live forever in my very own fantasy world. I guess that vague description could also be applied to anyone else's ideal of Heaven.
Boy, am I going to be pissed if I get told I'm coming back. Think deicide.
Okay, Captain Unimaginative.
Actually, this shows your lack of understanding of other religions' theology. The LDS idea of Heaven is that you will learn and progress for eternity. This can eventually mean you will progress to the current level God is at right now. Kinda comes from the rational thought process that although we were babies at one point we eventually grow up to take on the responsibilities and knowledge of our parents. Why would it not be that way on the eternal level? Especially since the Christian faith claims we are Children of God.
Either way, there are many variations found within the Christian faith of what Heaven is like.
Yeah, totally, Heaven is that. And skateboarding like, anywhere you want! Did you read his post? I am objecting to his Sunday school lies-to-children depiction of heaven.
And I am fairly sure that no Judeo-Christian religion of any kind at all suggests that you can "progress to the current level God is at right now," not without ignoring the very definition of God.
Any human definition of Heaven is by definition inadequate and at best figurative; otherwise you are demonstrating unimaginable arrogance and presuming to be capable of understanding the infinite and the divine, which, of course, no one can. Especially not in a way that could be expressed by language.
im kinda confused. what is your definition of God?
dont you not believe in God?
not to be rude, but please stop talking.
i think you're missing the point which is if were accepting that you can "progress to the current level god is at right now" then there would be millions of godlike beings and the original god couldn't do shit because it'd be dealing with other beings with powers and knowledge like its own and if there is millions and millions of godlike beings than why aren't they dicking around on earth, doing all kinds of miracles, or destroying anything they want?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is considered Judeo-Christian and it is believed that man has the capability to progress and be like God. It doesn't mean they will ever surpass him (like we can't all of a sudden get older or have more experience than our parents). But it is believed that as his children we are heirs in literally every respect. God is still omniscient and omnipotent. So other than the constant debate of the actual physical nature of God that is always happening within the Christian world, I'm not sure how that viewpoint ignores the very definition of the Christian God.
And I agree with you completely that and human definition of Heaven is completely inadequate. Especially when trying to describe the experience, sight, sounds, or feelings associated with such a place. That doesn't preclude our ability to understand the purpose of such a place, however. At least not the initial purpose of such a place.
lol
no
Cuz its assumed that the ability progress to that point consists of said person understanding justice, mercy, order, and love.
dude, answer my question though. what is your definition of God that precludes anyone from becoming like God?
btw. you're right, if the scenario you put forth were true, it would be crazy. but just like there is order in the universe, there is order in the Kingdom of God. So anyone who becomes like God is not allowed to run amuck and do whatever he/she wants to do. and always we are under God's rule/direction/etc. so if someone who had taken the bagillion years it will take comes over to this side of the universe, they will obey God. also, anyone who is worthy to be like God will be of the same mind and heart as God and, so, will do nothing contrary to His will.
why should i stop talking?
i just feel that as an athiest, you have no right to limit and define what I believe is God since you dont believe in Him. Its just as arrogant as you believe I am being.
you=you all, not specifically and only you.
I was referring to the fact that you speak as if English is your third language, its literally hard to read and your sentences don't quite make sense... you don't need to quote yourself, you can edit your previous post btw....
also: I'm agnostic not an atheist.
pot, kettle, ah, fuck it
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
teehee
i know i dont have to quote myself.
but thank you for the free lesson.
were you able to understand those two sentences? just curious. a.p.p,a r ently i m' ha _r88d to u`nd"ers<>t:an;d1
Of course, since we apparently are entirely incapable of articulating just what it is in the first place and just what happens there, such speculation must be very tentative.
Also, not backed by any evidence.
Someone freshen my mind. Why are we talking about Heaven, since:
a.) everyone has a different idea of Heaven; even people belonging to the same faith visualize it as completely different things.
b.) nobody (that is deemed clinically sane by society) has ever been there and come back.
So, erm.
Omnipotence. No two beings capable of disagreement could simultaneously be omnipotent. Only one (or neither) could prevail: in either case, it would imply that they were not both omnipotent. Since omnipotence is part of the Christian theology, it's not like this is a particularly weird conception of god to cite.
As per death, I like Lucretius' approach:
“Look back now and consider how the bygone ages of eternity that elapsed before our birth were nothing to us. Here, then, is a mirror in which nature shows us the time to come after our death. Do you see anything fearful in it? Do you perceive anything grim? Does it not appear more peaceful than the deepest sleep?†(De Rerum Natura 3.972-6)."