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The Israeli Lobby and the Overuse of the Anti-Semite Card

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Posts

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    I DO NOT say this lightly, but you, sir, ARE an Anti-Semite.

    :lol:

    Incenjucar on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    I think Thanatos is trying to articulate that many people use their Jewish heritage as an excuse to be horrible assholes, and because of their socio-economic stature, it's much more dangerous than when, say, the children of African-American slaves do it.
    That sounds very much like it's heading into "Jews control the world" territory, by which I mean crazytown. Is there any evidence that shows Jews are disproportionally represented among the successful?
    Jews make up 1.4% of the population of the U.S. There are 14 Jewish Senators currently serving in the U.S. Senate, meaning they make up 14% of the Senate (that will be 15% once Minnesota's junior Senator is seated, given that both Al Franken and Norm Coleman are Jewish). There are 33 current Representatives in the U.S. House of Representatives who are Jewish, meaning they make up 7.5% of the House.

    Thanatos on
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    I DO NOT say this lightly, but you, sir, ARE an Anti-Semite.

    :lol:
    This is the best thread ever.

    Der Waffle Mous on
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    the problem is how small a sample Jews are, comparetively. it's like comparing apples and grapes.

    Money is power. Their numbers merely mean that they have to concentrate it to keep it from being diluted.

    Incenjucar on
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Was I wrong to assume that this was less about what we're arguing now, and more about how the words "anti-semite" tend to be used as a bludgeon against any criticism of Israel's actions?


    Because I have seen that happen a lot in the local news back around the Lebanon incident.

    Der Waffle Mous on
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    I DO NOT say this lightly, but you, sir, ARE an Anti-Semite.

    :lol:
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Last I checked, Jews were massively over-represented in the U.S. Congress, along with the high side of the income scale. I'm not saying that anti-semitism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about Israel, I'd say reverse-anti-semitism ("anti-gentilism," if you will) is a far greater problem.

    Now, would THIS have been an acceptable thing to post?
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Last I checked, a Black man was president, and many popular musicians and comedians are also black. I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about inner city crime, I'd say reverse-racism ("anti-whitism," if you will) is a far greater problem.

    Evander on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.

    Incenjucar on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Wow.

    I thought the "How dare other minorities play the victim card, we have it WORSE" mindset was something unique to my people.
    this isn't that

    this is the "reverse racism" card, just with special guest "Jews" filling in for "Blacks"
    Again, it's not my fault that the Jewish anti-hate groups have married themselves so strongly to the pro-Israel groups that instead of fighting actual hate, they're just hatchet-men for the pro-Israel lobby.

    And I'm goddamned well not going to take it back just because you think I'm being unfair; I'm being perfectly fucking fair, you just don't like that I'm right.
    You are holding ALL Jews responsible for the actions of a minority WITHIN a minority.

    I DO NOT say this lightly, but you, sir, ARE an Anti-Semite. When you start declaring that name calling is a greater issue to this nation than ACTUAL crimes which are occurring, or start implying conspiracy (what else it the point of bringing up "the number of Jews in power"?) you are tipping your hand.

    The great irony being that the majority of Jews are actually incredibly liberal, just like you. You're unwilling to accept them as allies, though, because a couple of Jews looked at you funny, and you were offended.
    Oh, for fuck's sake, all I'm saying is that while most minorities face systemic racism and prejudice, Jews are faced with primarily isolated incidents of racism and prejudice (which by no means make it okay), and that the pro-Israel lobbies actions are a far greater threat to the world as a whole than the actions of a few douchebags. The only reason I'm citing the societal and political presence of the Jews is to point out that they aren't facing the same kind of systemic racism that other minorities do.

    And where in the world did I say that there is some sort of global conspiracy of Jews? The only actions I'm talking about are the actions of the most vocal Jewish groups, who tend to be accepted as speaking for the Jewish population as a whole because--despite being a "minority within a minority"--most Jewish groups are afraid to speak out against them for fear of being accused of being whatever the Jewish equivalent of an "Uncle Tom" is.

    Thanatos on
  • Ice_OrchidIce_Orchid Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I really dont even know where to start....
    Incenjucar, as a citizen of Israel and an Ex soldier i can promise you that no military action was ever excused with "they killed my grandpa in the gas chambers".
    and all of you need to decide if ur talking about jews or about Israeli international politics.
    stop fusing those two togather. as a jew im insulted by it.
    and jews will start being a problem in the states once they start going out and shooting at afro americans and other people cuz they arent jewish or said some thing bad about Israel.
    and BTW seeing the word kike a gazillion times in this thread isnt fun. and its as bad as seeing the word N-word(cuz saying kike is ok. but say N____, and get banned) posted with so little regard to what stands behind it.

    Ice_Orchid on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    I DO NOT say this lightly, but you, sir, ARE an Anti-Semite.

    :lol:
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Last I checked, Jews were massively over-represented in the U.S. Congress, along with the high side of the income scale. I'm not saying that anti-semitism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about Israel, I'd say reverse-anti-semitism ("anti-gentilism," if you will) is a far greater problem.

    Now, would THIS have been an acceptable thing to post?
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Last I checked, a Black man was president, and many popular musicians and comedians are also black. I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about inner city crime, I'd say reverse-racism ("anti-whitism," if you will) is a far greater problem.
    The fact that you even begin to compare prejudice against Jews in this country to prejudice against black people is fucking laughable. They're not even on the same order of magnitude. Nowhere close.

    Thanatos on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    the problem is how small a sample Jews are, comparetively. it's like comparing apples and grapes.

    Money is power. Their numbers merely mean that they have to concentrate it to keep it from being diluted.

    except that Jews don't controll a majority of the money in the country.



    I don't think you realize just how small a group sews are. We are 1.7% of the US population. that is just over five and a quarter million. That is LESS than a third of the population of New York city, but spread through the ENTIRE country.

    Evander on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    I DO NOT say this lightly, but you, sir, ARE an Anti-Semite.

    :lol:
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Last I checked, Jews were massively over-represented in the U.S. Congress, along with the high side of the income scale. I'm not saying that anti-semitism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about Israel, I'd say reverse-anti-semitism ("anti-gentilism," if you will) is a far greater problem.

    Now, would THIS have been an acceptable thing to post?
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Last I checked, a Black man was president, and many popular musicians and comedians are also black. I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist in this country, but given the responses one garners when one has the slightest negative thing to say about inner city crime, I'd say reverse-racism ("anti-whitism," if you will) is a far greater problem.
    The fact that you even begin to compare prejudice against Jews in this country to prejudice against black people is fucking laughable. They're not even on the same order of magnitude. Nowhere close.

    And THAT makes your racism okay?



    Go ahead, and tell me why it's okay for you to hate an entire group of people, the vast majority of whom you've never met.

    Evander on
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    You might want to edit the N word out.

    Its the only word we have banned here.

    Der Waffle Mous on
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    But the rampant overuse of the "Anti-Semite" care IS really really really bad. Because it cripples the US's ability to properly deal with Israel. Anyone who comes out strongly against Israel's actions is tarred with the Anti-Semite bush (see: Jimmy Carter)

    This has a HUGE effect on US foreign policy, especially in the Middle East. And has alot to do with the thousands thousands dying down there in various ways. And also comes back on the US and it's allies from people pissed at the US's support of Israel.

    So, yeah, I'd say it's a bigger deal.
    Was I wrong to assume that this was less about what we're arguing now, and more about how the words "anti-semite" tend to be used as a bludgeon against any criticism of Israel's actions?
    Because I have seen that happen a lot in the local news back around the Lebanon incident.

    That's why I thought it was about.

    shryke on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Ice_Orchid wrote: »
    I really dont even know where to start....
    Incenjucar, as a citizen of Israel and an Ex soldier i can promise you that no military action was ever excused with "they killed my grandpa in the gas chambers".
    and all of you need to decide if ur talking about jews or about Israeli international politics.
    stop fusing those two togather. as a jew im insulted by it.
    and jews will start being a problem in the states once they start going out and shooting at afro americans and other people cuz they arent jewish or said some thing bad about Israel.
    and BTW seeing the word kike a gazillion times in this thread isnt fun. and its as bad as seeing the word n***** posted with so little regard to what stands behind it.
    The N-word is explicitly banned on these forums. I suggest you edit that out.

    And if you have a problem with the pro-Israel lobby in the U.S. being so intertwined with Jewish interests, I suggest you write the ADL and let them know, because they were the ones who fucking started it.

    Thanatos on
  • Ice_OrchidIce_Orchid Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    omg ur all insane here. i should have kept to just reading the comic...

    Ice_Orchid on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.

    and that makes it okay to hate Jews?

    Evander on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.

    and that makes it okay to hate Jews?

    Who here hates Jews?

    Thanatos, at best, just hates the Jewish lobby.

    shryke on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    except that Jews don't controll a majority of the money in the country.

    No, but as individuals they average out MUCH better than anyone else, and our country is divided into states, counties, cities, districts, and neighborhoods.
    I don't think you realize just how small a group sews are. We are 1.7% of the US population. that is just over five and a quarter million. That is LESS than a third of the population of New York city, but spread through the ENTIRE country.

    And?

    How many Senators are there in the country?

    Incenjucar on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Jews are faced with primarily isolated incidents of racism and prejudice

    Depends on the region.

    there are some places where Jews WOULD be systematically persecuted if any of them were there.

    Evander on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    The fact that you even begin to compare prejudice against Jews in this country to prejudice against black people is fucking laughable. They're not even on the same order of magnitude. Nowhere close.
    And THAT makes your racism okay?

    Go ahead, and tell me why it's okay for you to hate an entire group of people, the vast majority of whom you've never met.
    Speaking of Jews specifically, I don't hate Jews; I hate specific Jewish lobbying organizations, but I don't hate Jews.

    As for why it's okay for me to hate entire groups of people, the vast majority of whom I've never met, I hate Neo-Nazis and KKK members, too. Also agriculture conglomerates, hippies, and Christoholics. I don't see anything wrong with any of that.

    Thanatos on
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.

    and that makes it okay to hate Jews?
    No, but its a goddamned insulting comparison.

    Der Waffle Mous on
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.

    and that makes it okay to hate Jews?

    Nobody here hates Jews as a race.

    We can sure hate what the most powerful people who happen to be Jewish are doing though.

    Incenjucar on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    shryke wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.

    and that makes it okay to hate Jews?

    Who here hates Jews?

    Thanatos, at best, just hates the Jewish lobby.

    That's not what his posts in here are saying.

    Evander on
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    except that Jews don't controll a majority of the money in the country.

    No, but as individuals they average out MUCH better than anyone else, and our country is divided into states, counties, cities, districts, and neighborhoods.
    I don't think you realize just how small a group sews are. We are 1.7% of the US population. that is just over five and a quarter million. That is LESS than a third of the population of New York city, but spread through the ENTIRE country.

    And?

    How many Senators are there in the country?

    oh noes the jews are coming to steal ur monies

    SyphonBlue on
    LxX6eco.jpg
    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.

    and that makes it okay to hate Jews?

    Who here hates Jews?

    Thanatos, at best, just hates the Jewish lobby.

    That's not what his posts in here are saying.

    Actually, it is. The problem is he's not articulating it that well and your blatantly overreacting.

    shryke on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Depends on the region.

    there are some places where anyone WOULD be systematically persecuted if any of them were there and weren't part of the local population.

    Incenjucar on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.

    and that makes it okay to hate Jews?
    No, but its a goddamned insulting comparison.

    why is it insulting?

    did you say the same thing about when people compared gay marriage to interracial marriage?

    Evander on
  • edited June 2009
    This content has been removed.

  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    shryke wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.

    and that makes it okay to hate Jews?

    Who here hates Jews?

    Thanatos, at best, just hates the Jewish lobby.

    That's not what his posts in here are saying.

    Actually, it is. The problem is he's not articulating it that well and your blatantly overreacting.

    I'd have had him on ignore AGES ago if I could. Can't ignore mods, though.

    Evander on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    mcdermott wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.

    and that makes it okay to hate Jews?

    Who here hates Jews?

    Thanatos, at best, just hates the Jewish lobby.

    But, but, the two are exactly the same m i rite?

    Which is, to some extent, exactly what he seems to have been talking about in the first place. Amusing.

    Oh, and having a black president is an aberration. They're still underrepresented across the entire power structure, and will be even more so when our next white president gets elected (whether in 4 or 8 years, either way).

    And rappers and athletes don't (in general) make broad policy.

    And the broad policy that Jews support (in general) is ACTUALLY the same stuff that Thanatos supports.

    Evander on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    why is it insulting?

    did you say the same thing about when people compared gay marriage to interracial marriage?

    Another bad comparison.

    Jewish people have, on average, wonderful socioeconomic status.

    Black people have, on average, horrible socioeconomic status.

    Gay marriage and interracial marriage do not have socioeconomic status components.

    Incenjucar on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    And the broad policy that almost anyone support (in general) is ACTUALLY the same stuff that Thanatos supports.

    Incenjucar on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.

    and that makes it okay to hate Jews?
    No, but its a goddamned insulting comparison.
    why is it insulting?

    did you say the same thing about when people compared gay marriage to interracial marriage?
    Probably because the comparison of gay marriage bans to interracial marriage bans is a valid fucking comparison, whereas the comparison of prejudice against Jews to prejudice against black people isn't?

    This is like when the Republicans were comparing themselves to the Reformists in Iran. "I almost got hit by a taxi on the way to work, now I know what it was like at Tienanmen Square."

    Thanatos on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Ice_Orchid wrote: »
    omg ur all insane here. i should have kept to just reading the comic...

    Sigged.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The racial situation with the "Black" population is not the same as that of the Jewish population.

    Not remotely.

    You may as well say that the Native Americans and Koreans are on the same footing.
    and that makes it okay to hate Jews?
    Who here hates Jews?

    Thanatos, at best, just hates the Jewish lobby.
    But, but, the two are exactly the same m i rite?

    Which is, to some extent, exactly what he seems to have been talking about in the first place. Amusing.

    Oh, and having a black president is an aberration. They're still underrepresented across the entire power structure, and will be even more so when our next white president gets elected (whether in 4 or 8 years, either way).

    And rappers and athletes don't (in general) make broad policy.
    And the broad policy that Jews support (in general) is ACTUALLY the same stuff that Thanatos supports.
    If we're talking about Jewish politicians, well, then, I'm anti-genocide, they're pro-genocide; I'm anti-apartheid, they're pro-apartheid. Everything else just kinda seems like bullshit in comparison.

    I mean, really, how would you feel about a KKK member who was strongly pro-choice, pro-universal health care, in favor of progressive taxation, and supported a more internationalist foreign policy, but just felt that black people should go back to Africa?

    Thanatos on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    All Jewish politicians are pro-Genocide, Thanatos?



    That statement is your DEFENSE that you are not being racist?

    Evander on
  • Ice_OrchidIce_Orchid Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Thanatos, i will leave this forum hoping to never come back(unless some thing interesting happens here).
    and my parting words are...
    Sir, You are a racist. and there is little you can say against that.

    Ice_Orchid on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander wrote: »

    That's not what his posts in here are saying.
    Ok look this right here? This is the entire point of the thread. Make any criticism of Israel or the Jewish lobby and suddenly you are branded an anti-semite. This is the problem. You right here are proving that.

    deadonthestreet on
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Evander you're being ridiculous. Thanatos has never even implied that he hates Jews.

    Where the flying fucktown you got that from I have no idea.

    MikeMan on
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