Man I had no idea so many people would participate. This is turning into quite a piece of work I have cut out for me. Tomorrow I will eat breakfast...and then do nothing but critique for the next 5 hours. ....Right after I find the pen for my cintiq that is.
I'm definitely going to join in on this as I've been doing figure drawing for the last 4 weekends, and feel like I need some helps. Sunday more than likely will be done, awesome thread cake :^: I'm also surprised at the turnout.
hour. cut myself off because i was just fucking with the hands over and over and over and over and i was afraid i'd erase a hole through the paper if i didn't stop
liked this a lot more before i scanned it x_x i thought i fixed the tilt of her head (as in my picture having none) but it turns out i didn't! fffffffffff
e: shit and the angle of the (our)left arm too shit AAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
Man I had no idea so many people would participate. This is turning into quite a piece of work I have cut out for me. Tomorrow I will eat breakfast...and then do nothing but critique for the next 5 hours. ....Right after I find the pen for my cintiq that is.
Does critiquing other ppls work help your own artistic skills? As in practical theoretical or whatever? Or are you just awsomesauce?
i wanna convince cake to trip acid with me, develop a severe bohemian lifestyle, get into black metal and mobb deep, take acid again, then make some paintings. What im trying to say is, if cake were to fall off the deep end, he'd make amazing artwork. Come on dude, lets go train hopping.
Man I had no idea so many people would participate. This is turning into quite a piece of work I have cut out for me. Tomorrow I will eat breakfast...and then do nothing but critique for the next 5 hours. ....Right after I find the pen for my cintiq that is.
Does critiquing other ppls work help your own artistic skills? As in practical theoretical or whatever? Or are you just awsomesauce?
It definitely does help you. It gives you a more clear concept of what exactly you are doing, so you can manipulate it better in the future. When I am drawing I am not always thinking about why I am doing the things I do, because they are ingrained in me from just doing hundreds or maybe even thousands of drawings. So by trying to explain it to other people I am forced to think about and breakdown what I am doing quite carefully. This better understanding will certainly help my own work. Some of the teachers at Watts talk about teaching as an important part of your development as an artist, but that was only frustrating because there is no chance of my teaching there. So I have to find alternatives.
That said I am not a teacher, and have little experience doing so beyond helping other students in class and a short demonstration and class that I helped teach at a high school a bit back. So bear with me while I try to get this whole thing down.
god damn stupid photobucket. I hate uploading to myown website as it takes me like 15 minutes (go daddys interface sucks ass) as opposed to photobucket where it takes me like 30 seconds. Any other free image hosts that dont hate tasteful nude? I get around photobuckets retarded censorship by just deleting their dumbass message and reuploading the file.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Alright I was able to get in one critique before breakfast, I used KDW's since he was the first to post. If you have any comments or critiques on my critique please let me know so I can make improvements before I do the rest.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
The paint-over is handy, but I think more analysis from the point of view of "Here's what to do to avoid that mistake" would be handy! For example, what mental method do you use to get more subtlety in your contours? What mental tools would you be using to capture the flow? etc.
Imo a good critique is correction followed by advice on how to avoid the error in future!
Sorry if I came over rude, that wasn't my intention
Edit: and for that purpose you might well stick the corrections in the paint-over and the advice as text underneath.
True, but I think KDW will be able to take something from what was critiqued, because he clearly already had a damn good grasp of what he was doing to begin with.
My paintover is going to be embarrassing!
Seeing as Cake has to do this like ten times to cover each persons entry, a brief crit seems pretty fair. I'll take any advice I can get.
And yes as adam mentioned.. I did get something out of it.
And not to be a smart ass sul but cake did a pretty good job of explaining his thinking. The mental method you follow is to keep in mind the big picture. That over all pull and pinch of the figure. And every "detail" that you add has to suppourt that original big IDea. I slipped up on some of my smaller and more specific indications. ITs a lot of thinking about how is this shape/bump/ whatever that I am drawing right now helping to describe the idea of what the figure is doing. (this example may not make sense but its just something off the top of my head - When you put a crease in where the leg bends its important because it can inform that the leg is bending towards or away from the viewer depending on the curve of the crease.) ITs just a lot of small things like that.
Granted I have the advantage of having heard alot of his critiques many many times before so he doesnt have to articulate himself 100%.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Thanks for the comments guys, I will try to be a bit more clear about how I would avoid these problems in the future. But to that end, do you think it is better for me to do my version of the drawing now so I can reference it or continue with critiques like this?
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
imo seeing it done "correctly" is less important than the critiques - in one respect, one could argue the photo shows the lines and form correctly as it is, albeit not interpreted.
Cake, you may want to avoid using the reilly abstraction only from the standpoint that the majority will have no clue what it is, and from a teaching/construction standpoint it really isn't as useful as more basic geometric construction. My $.02
Thanks for the comments guys, I will try to be a bit more clear about how I would avoid these problems in the future. But to that end, do you think it is better for me to do my version of the drawing now so I can reference it or continue with critiques like this?
Just a suggestion- you could try starting your drawing, but only going maybe 20-40 minutes into it at this point. That way you have the photos of the lay-in process to reference in your critiques- this is probably where most of the issues you're going to be addressing at this point are going to be focused in any case, rather than things like rendering advice.
Then do your critiques in the same drawover fashion, and then finish your own drawing after that, to show how the an accurate lay-in contributes to a finished drawing.
I think if you just do draw overs, it may get across the mistakes to fix in the individual piece, but not so much about the principles you're using to avoid those mistakes initially, or if you go and finish your drawing with all the steps in one big post, it may end up having people rush into rendering and trying to get a finished drawing too soon at this stage.
Thank you guys. I took a nap but I am back on the job now.
Shizu - I wouldn't worry about it too much. My own use of the Reilly abstraction is limited, I just included a minimal amount in KDW's critique, and he is familiar with the abstraction so I think he understood what he was seeing. But I do think it would be helpful for people to familiarize themselves with the very basics of the Reilly Method so we probably will get into it one of these weeks.
ND - Thanks that is great reference. Actually most of what people have posted/linked to is great. I doubt we will need to continue the 'everyone post reference with your drawing' rule after this week.
Alright, here is a quick demonstration. I realize how unfair it must seem considering I used digital, but I just thought it would make it easier for the demo purposes because I could just start a new layer whenever I wanted to 'take a picture' instead of losing momentum and getting up and actually breaking out the camera.
This is literally just the first 5-10 minutes of the drawing for me. But you should take as long as you need to get it accurate. I am a big fan of assembling the figure in straights to start with because it creates a very clear image in my mind of what the masses of the figure are doing. What angles they are leaning at, what the relationship of the ribcage and pelvis is, what the stretch and pinch is like. It keeps me focused on the important issues and not on rendering or contour.
Phase 1 is just blocking in the big shape of the pose that you see. It's almost always a triangle of some sort.
Phase 2 is a general block in of the figure using very basic geometric shapes and straight lines with the exception of the gestural centerline of the figure.
Phase 3 is just adding in a bit more complexity and working out the general locations of the brests and arms. In a normal pose I would have blocked in the arms earlier, but because the arm is crossing the body I wanted to make sure I focused on the major forms underneath first.
Phase 4 I finish putting in the other arm, I cleaned up some unnecessary/confusing layin lines on the left side of the figure, and I added more mass to the top of the cranium which was feeling compressed to me.
Phase 5 I rework my layin of the legs because they were feeling quite long.
I will obviously do more and also upload the PSD once I figure out how...(the file manager on my host doesnt seem to see the PSD files when I try to upload).
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Man I had no idea so many people would participate. This is turning into quite a piece of work I have cut out for me. Tomorrow I will eat breakfast...and then do nothing but critique for the next 5 hours. ....Right after I find the pen for my cintiq that is.
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hour. cut myself off because i was just fucking with the hands over and over and over and over and i was afraid i'd erase a hole through the paper if i didn't stop
liked this a lot more before i scanned it x_x i thought i fixed the tilt of her head (as in my picture having none) but it turns out i didn't! fffffffffff
e: shit and the angle of the (our)left arm too shit AAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
Does critiquing other ppls work help your own artistic skills? As in practical theoretical or whatever? Or are you just awsomesauce?
PSN: MaximasXXZ XBOX Live: SneakyMcSnipe
Yes, it does help. Seeing how others do things both correctly and incorrectly helps your own work.
(not knocking what hes doing, its obv good)
if anyone wants help on how to do things incorrectly, head over to my thread.
It definitely does help you. It gives you a more clear concept of what exactly you are doing, so you can manipulate it better in the future. When I am drawing I am not always thinking about why I am doing the things I do, because they are ingrained in me from just doing hundreds or maybe even thousands of drawings. So by trying to explain it to other people I am forced to think about and breakdown what I am doing quite carefully. This better understanding will certainly help my own work. Some of the teachers at Watts talk about teaching as an important part of your development as an artist, but that was only frustrating because there is no chance of my teaching there. So I have to find alternatives.
That said I am not a teacher, and have little experience doing so beyond helping other students in class and a short demonstration and class that I helped teach at a high school a bit back. So bear with me while I try to get this whole thing down.
Imo a good critique is correction followed by advice on how to avoid the error in future!
Sorry if I came over rude, that wasn't my intention
Edit: and for that purpose you might well stick the corrections in the paint-over and the advice as text underneath.
My paintover is going to be embarrassing!
Seeing as Cake has to do this like ten times to cover each persons entry, a brief crit seems pretty fair. I'll take any advice I can get.
INSTAGRAM
NEVER
HE SHALL WORK IN THE CRITIQUE MINES FOR HIS BREAD AND HE SHALL DIE POOR AND BROKEN
INSTAGRAM
And yes as adam mentioned.. I did get something out of it.
And not to be a smart ass sul but cake did a pretty good job of explaining his thinking. The mental method you follow is to keep in mind the big picture. That over all pull and pinch of the figure. And every "detail" that you add has to suppourt that original big IDea. I slipped up on some of my smaller and more specific indications. ITs a lot of thinking about how is this shape/bump/ whatever that I am drawing right now helping to describe the idea of what the figure is doing. (this example may not make sense but its just something off the top of my head - When you put a crease in where the leg bends its important because it can inform that the leg is bending towards or away from the viewer depending on the curve of the crease.) ITs just a lot of small things like that.
Granted I have the advantage of having heard alot of his critiques many many times before so he doesnt have to articulate himself 100%.
Just a suggestion- you could try starting your drawing, but only going maybe 20-40 minutes into it at this point. That way you have the photos of the lay-in process to reference in your critiques- this is probably where most of the issues you're going to be addressing at this point are going to be focused in any case, rather than things like rendering advice.
Then do your critiques in the same drawover fashion, and then finish your own drawing after that, to show how the an accurate lay-in contributes to a finished drawing.
I think if you just do draw overs, it may get across the mistakes to fix in the individual piece, but not so much about the principles you're using to avoid those mistakes initially, or if you go and finish your drawing with all the steps in one big post, it may end up having people rush into rendering and trying to get a finished drawing too soon at this stage.
Just a thought.
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Shizu - I wouldn't worry about it too much. My own use of the Reilly abstraction is limited, I just included a minimal amount in KDW's critique, and he is familiar with the abstraction so I think he understood what he was seeing. But I do think it would be helpful for people to familiarize themselves with the very basics of the Reilly Method so we probably will get into it one of these weeks.
ND - Thanks that is great reference. Actually most of what people have posted/linked to is great. I doubt we will need to continue the 'everyone post reference with your drawing' rule after this week.
Bacon - Noted and being put into action.
This is literally just the first 5-10 minutes of the drawing for me. But you should take as long as you need to get it accurate. I am a big fan of assembling the figure in straights to start with because it creates a very clear image in my mind of what the masses of the figure are doing. What angles they are leaning at, what the relationship of the ribcage and pelvis is, what the stretch and pinch is like. It keeps me focused on the important issues and not on rendering or contour.
Phase 1 is just blocking in the big shape of the pose that you see. It's almost always a triangle of some sort.
Phase 2 is a general block in of the figure using very basic geometric shapes and straight lines with the exception of the gestural centerline of the figure.
Phase 3 is just adding in a bit more complexity and working out the general locations of the brests and arms. In a normal pose I would have blocked in the arms earlier, but because the arm is crossing the body I wanted to make sure I focused on the major forms underneath first.
Phase 4 I finish putting in the other arm, I cleaned up some unnecessary/confusing layin lines on the left side of the figure, and I added more mass to the top of the cranium which was feeling compressed to me.
Phase 5 I rework my layin of the legs because they were feeling quite long.
I will obviously do more and also upload the PSD once I figure out how...(the file manager on my host doesnt seem to see the PSD files when I try to upload).
Here is a critique for DeadlyDorito.
Also thank you very much for the link, that is a great resource for reference photos.