Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Trudging through an enemy capital and finding the bodies of your subjects
hanging from meathooks probably doesn't help though. :P
The people in Lorderan aren't really Wrynn's subjects. Technically, they'd be Arthas's, but since he's left them behind (And also is primarily responsible for their current hellish state of undeath), they seem to be their own people.
Wrynn (and much of humanity & the alliance's) regrettable attitude is, "OK, you're dead, we can't be friends any more, because you're abominations". Guess what I'm trying to say, is Lorderan isn't really the alliance's any more. Its citizens are part of the horde now.
The Royal Apothecary Society had been experimenting on humans since the first babyquest. Those were his subjects being slaughtered, tortured, and hung on meathooks in the experiment hall.
Varian is in the right. He should have declared war on the horde.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I've always been a little disgusted with the Forsaken's desire for a new plague. And their experimentation draws significant comparisons to Unit-731 that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I for one was relieved to discover they were doing it behind Thrall's back. Which creates the question why was Thrall ignorant?
Thrall allowed the presence of a dreadlord in the horde all this time? That was a little suspect. I mean surely he had to know Varimathras was in the bowels of the undercity. Also he knows first hand a Dreadlord has never served any interest other than that of the burning legion.
Thrall should have declared war on that shit. Doing quests for the Tauren, Trolls, and Orcs felt like a completely different faction.
Don't get me wrong, the Forsaken quests are fun, and I like the story, but those guys were broken arrow, and Thrall was a little ignorant on that tip. And shit Cairne just stays up on his Mesa. Now that I think on it where has he been?
I've always been a little disgusted with the Forsaken's desire for a new plague. And their experimentation draws significant comparisons to Unit-731 that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I for one was relieved to discover they were doing it behind Thrall's back. Which creates the question why was Thrall ignorant?
Thrall allowed the presence of a dreadlord in the horde all this time? That was a little suspect. I mean surely he had to know Varimathras was in the bowels of the undercity. Also he knows first hand a Dreadlord has never served any interest other than that of the burning legion.
Thrall should have declared war on that shit. Doing quests for the Tauren, Trolls, and Orcs felt like a completely different faction.
Don't get me wrong, the Forsaken quests are fun, and I like the story, but those guys were broken arrow, and Thrall was a little ignorant on that tip. And shit Cairne just stays up on his Mesa. Now that I think on it where has he been?
Continuing on the New Plague thing - a lot of those were Varian's subjects and allies being slaughtered/experimented on, as the RAS was kidnapping human and undead subjects from all over...including other members of the horde.
As for whether Thrall was an ignoramus, remember that he's big on redemption and such - the Forsaken were seen as victims trying to carve out some kind of life for themselves in Tirisfal Glades. All Thrall really heard about was likely their battle against the Scourge and the Scarlet Crusade murdering them. I mean if he heard about undead capturing and experimenting on the living he could just chalk it up to the massive Scourge presence remaining in the Kingdom.
If the Warsong Fel Orcs could turn back, he's probably willing to extend that possibility to a Dreadlord. Besides, I dunno if it's ever really explicitly mentioned that Vari's known to be a big cheese in the Undercity. To other factions he might have been a rumour of "the power behind the throne" or something.
In any case, I believe Metzen said that Sylvanas is "in the doghouse" with the horde after BftU (whether because of the RAS or simply having to clean up her shit for her I don't know) and that Garrosh is forcing her to attack Gilneas.
Considering Saurfang threatened to cut him down if he so much as hinted at leading the orcs back down their dark, blood-thirsty ways? Yeah ain't no way Garrosh is lasting to 5.0, I can guarantee that much.
Saurfang
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
One, the flow of information is pretty slow in a world without an internet, so keep that in mind. It makes hiding things from Sylvanas, Thrall, and the entire Alliance a lot easier. The Apothecary Society kills their test subjects and is generally torturous and evil, but it's mostly behind closed doors and little leaks out to the Horde or Sylvanas. The Alliance probably doesn't know about the Alliance killed in Tauren Mill just as much as Cairne doesn't know about the Tauren killed in the Apothecarium. Also remember that the fact that you as a player is helping them doesn't mean much lorewise, the people helping them in the lore are Forsaken supporters of their cause or Grimtotems interested in the plague for their own use. That means there's even less avenues for leaks.
Personally I'm sure Sylvanas heard stories about the Apothecaries' horrors, but waved them away as unfounded rumors or as the Scourge doing those things when the results of the Apothecaries' work came to light. They probably brought in Scourge and used the plague on it and it died, showing that their work was nearly complete, making Sylvanas happy. Of course they didn't show her using it on a living thing at the time which would have killed it, but hey. I'm sure Sylvanas is pretty torn up about the whole thing, realizing she was being used, that she didn't have control over the Dreadlord like she thought she did (she probably even swore to Thrall that she had him under her thumb to get Thrall to allow her keep him around, doubling the blow to her when it turned out that wasn't true), and how she made things worse not just for her Forsaken but for the Horde in general.
I see the Horde managed like the UN--where it's a group of races gathered together towards a common goal--while the Alliance is managed like a Kingdom--everyone's supposed to do what Wrynn says--so that's why Thrall escapes pretty blameless out of the whole thing. His job is to help unify these formerly savage/mindless/magic-addicted races and to move them towards peaceful civilization, not to micromanage everything everyone does.
It's also worth noting that the Horde is still extremely cobbled together. The Undericty makes up half of the Horde's presence on Northrend, and most of their presence in the Eastern Kingdoms. If Thrall were to immediately declare war on the Undercity, the Horde would be so much weaker for it. It's also why he denounces Garrosh's attitude while at the same time tolerating it. There are a lot of Orcs who follow Garrosh's point of view, so he can't really afford a schism amongst his own race.
One, the flow of information is pretty slow in a world without an internet, so keep that in mind. It makes hiding things from Sylvanas, Thrall, and the entire Alliance a lot easier. The Apothecary Society kills their test subjects and is generally torturous and evil, but it's mostly behind closed doors and little leaks out to the Horde or Sylvanas. The Alliance probably doesn't know about the Alliance killed in Tauren Mill just as much as Cairne doesn't know about the Tauren killed in the Apothecarium. Also remember that the fact that you as a player is helping them doesn't mean much lorewise, the people helping them in the lore are Forsaken supporters of their cause or Grimtotems interested in the plague for their own use. That means there's even less avenues for leaks.
Personally I'm sure Sylvanas heard stories about the Apothecaries' horrors, but waved them away as unfounded rumors or as the Scourge doing those things when the results of the Apothecaries' work came to light. They probably brought in Scourge and used the plague on it and it died, showing that their work was nearly complete, making Sylvanas happy. Of course they didn't show her using it on a living thing at the time which would have killed it, but hey. I'm sure Sylvanas is pretty torn up about the whole thing, realizing she was being used, that she didn't have control over the Dreadlord like she thought she did (she probably even swore to Thrall that she had him under her thumb to get Thrall to allow her keep him around, doubling the blow to her when it turned out that wasn't true), and how she made things worse not just for her Forsaken but for the Horde in general.
I see the Horde managed like the UN--where it's a group of races gathered together towards a common goal--while the Alliance is managed like a Kingdom--everyone's supposed to do what Wrynn says--so that's why Thrall escapes pretty blameless out of the whole thing. His job is to help unify these formerly savage/mindless/magic-addicted races and to move them towards peaceful civilization, not to micromanage everything everyone does.
I think you're giving Sylvanas herself a bit too much credit here. Way back in Vanilla the lore seemed to make it clear that Sylvanas knew the New Plague was meant for the living, not just the Scourge. Then again Blizz havn't been entirely consistent with Sylvanas' character, so maybe it's meant to have been retconned that the anti-personnel side of the New Plague was entirely Varimathras and his cohort's doing, and Sylvanas just meant it for Arthas and the scourge.
Speaking of Sylvanas' character, she did seem to kind of turn a corner once the Blood Elves became part of the Horde. Despite being the leader of an entire "race" she still seemed to have an extreme hate for everything living, until the Blood Elves showed up. She was the most vocal supporter of the Elves being accepted and seems to still think of herself as an elf, which probably helped to stymie her 'kill all humans' mentality.
true, that reminds of the one horde quest where...
there's a human guy in a cage, and some RAS guys send you all over the friggen' world to concot a "truth serum" to interrogate him with. when you finally give it to him, he's like "look, <race>, there's something you should now, Varimthas is... urk!". Turns out it wasn't a truth serum after all.
Speaking of Sylvanas' character, she did seem to kind of turn a corner once the Blood Elves became part of the Horde. Despite being the leader of an entire "race" she still seemed to have an extreme hate for everything living, until the Blood Elves showed up. She was the most vocal supporter of the Elves being accepted and seems to still think of herself as an elf, which probably helped to stymie her 'kill all humans' mentality.
I could've sworn it was implied there was some kind of ulterior motive to her support of the blood elves, but I don't recall it now. I know the ghostlands missions involve a lot of bickering with the Forsaken sent to aid the belves, who only really seem to care about vengeance, IIRC. But yeah the "consumed by vengeance albeit with a softer side" seems to be where Blizz want Sylvanas. It'll be interesting to see where they take her now.
The RAS was originally formed by Sylvanas both to destroy the Scourge as well as bolster their own numbers. Sylvanas actually did lie to the other Horde races in telling them that the RAS was around to find a "cure" for their illness. The original Royal Apothecary Society's goal was actually incredibly important for the survival of the Forsaken as a faction, seeing as the Forsaken don't have the necromanic revival powers of the Scourge. They can't just raise bodies to do their bidding.
It's also worth noting that the organization of the RAS is fairly fractured; Research and Development, Testing, and Implantation, each with their own head apothecary.
The RAS was originally formed by Sylvanas both to destroy the Scourge as well as bolster their own numbers. Sylvanas actually did lie to the other Horde races in telling them that the RAS was around to find a "cure" for their illness. The original Royal Apothecary Society's goal was actually incredibly important for the survival of the Forsaken as a faction, seeing as the Forsaken don't have the necromanic revival powers of the Scourge. They can't just raise bodies to do their bidding.
It's also worth noting that the organization of the RAS is fairly fractured; Research and Development, Testing, and Implantation, each with their own head apothecary.
Yeah, I believe the official heads of the RAS - from the WoW RPG handbook - have never even appeared in the game, or were scrubbed in favour of Putress. As I side note I thought it was weird Putress never appeared or was mentioned in any of the pre-Northrend RAS quests, though I suppose that since the Alliance were the only cats to see him after Wrathgate it would be anticlimatic to build him up in Horde quests and then get rid of him off-screen.
Speaking of Sylvanas' character, she did seem to kind of turn a corner once the Blood Elves became part of the Horde. Despite being the leader of an entire "race" she still seemed to have an extreme hate for everything living, until the Blood Elves showed up. She was the most vocal supporter of the Elves being accepted and seems to still think of herself as an elf, which probably helped to stymie her 'kill all humans' mentality.
I could've sworn it was implied there was some kind of ulterior motive to her support of the blood elves, but I don't recall it now. I know the ghostlands missions involve a lot of bickering with the Forsaken sent to aid the belves, who only really seem to care about vengeance, IIRC. But yeah the "consumed by vengeance albeit with a softer side" seems to be where Blizz want Sylvanas. It'll be interesting to see where they take her now.
She's still got a pretty big soft spot for the elves, plus I imagine the Blood Elves still have a certain amount of loyalty for her as well. If there is any alternate reason it's probably for military purposes. Like having an ally in such close proximity, and one that already has an established trust. Undercity used to start at neutral with all the other horde factions, for obvious reasons such as: being undead, and developing biological weapons. They start out as friendly with Blood Elves, though.
The RAS was originally formed by Sylvanas both to destroy the Scourge as well as bolster their own numbers. Sylvanas actually did lie to the other Horde races in telling them that the RAS was around to find a "cure" for their illness. The original Royal Apothecary Society's goal was actually incredibly important for the survival of the Forsaken as a faction, seeing as the Forsaken don't have the necromanic revival powers of the Scourge. They can't just raise bodies to do their bidding.
It's also worth noting that the organization of the RAS is fairly fractured; Research and Development, Testing, and Implantation, each with their own head apothecary.
Yeah, I believe the official heads of the RAS - from the WoW RPG handbook - have never even appeared in the game, or were scrubbed in favour of Putress. As I side note I thought it was weird Putress never appeared or was mentioned in any of the pre-Northrend RAS quests, though I suppose that since the Alliance were the only cats to see him after Wrathgate it would be anticlimatic to build him up in Horde quests and then get rid of him off-screen.
Putress originally showed up in the pre-Wrath world event, as the guy who said he could cure the undead plague (and he did). His research, and the fruits of it, went noticed by Sylvanas who made him a Grand Apothecary.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2009
Putress was shown during the zombie invasion event and during the scourge invasion of Orgrimmar.
He invented the cure to the scourge plague and also discovered that he could weaponize it against the scourge themselves.
As a member of the horde, you have to help develop the new plague in order to even get to the wrathgate.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
also, a lot of the forsaken used to be allied with the blood elves, before all the "unpleasantness" of WC3. when 2.0 launched, the forsaken commoners would say stuff like "it sure is weird/nice to be fighting alongside the elves again". (don't remember specifically which adjective they used, but they seemed pleased)
also, a lot of the forsaken used to be allied with the blood elves, before all the "unpleasantness" of WC3. when 2.0 launched, the forsaken commoners would say stuff like "it sure is weird/nice to be fighting alongside the elves again". (don't remember specifically which adjective they used, but they seemed pleased)
It makes sense as I believe the majority of the Forsaken are meant to be from Lordearon, which historically had some kind of treaty with King Tereanas or something. (I'm really mangling the names here)
edit: whoops I meant the Silvermoon elves had a treaty with the King, not the King had a contract with his own kingdom
Putress was shown during the zombie invasion event and during the scourge invasion of Orgrimmar.
He invented the cure to the scourge plague and also discovered that he could weaponize it against the scourge themselves.
As a member of the horde, you have to help develop the new plague in order to even get to the wrathgate.
Well that's still one event that was part of the WotLK launch anyway
I mean the regular quest lines that you did for members of the RAS all over vanilla WoW.
Well it wouldn't make sense for Putress to be an established character. He was a random guy that showed up with the magical fix and he used it as leverage on the situation to his own ends. Pretty sure it's implied at this point that Varimathras got him the cure to the plague to set up the coup.
Developing the Blight wasn't the betrayal. Using it at the Wrathgate was.
Putress was shown during the zombie invasion event and during the scourge invasion of Orgrimmar.
He invented the cure to the scourge plague and also discovered that he could weaponize it against the scourge themselves.
As a member of the horde, you have to help develop the new plague in order to even get to the wrathgate.
Well that's still one event that was part of the WotLK launch anyway
I mean the regular quest lines that you did for members of the RAS all over vanilla WoW.
Well it wouldn't make sense for Putress to be an established character. He was a random guy that showed up with the magical fix and he used it as leverage on the situation to his own ends. Pretty sure it's implied at this point that Varimathras got him the cure to the plague to set up the coup.
Developing the Blight wasn't the betrayal. Using it at the Wrathgate was.
I know the last bit, it's just I wasn't playing WoW before WotlK, so for me Putress just randomly turned up in Northrend as "Grand Apothecary" despite having never been mentioned in the bazillion quests I did for the RAS on the way up. It was very strange. :P
Well there are actually TWO Grand Apothecaries, and the one that isn't Putress did show up out of nowhere at Agmar's Hammer. You give him the completed sample of Blight. That's about it.
He just has a generic model and only gives you qs up to lvl 20 or so, hence I forgot he even existed. The co-founder and lieutenant of the society never appear though:
Trudging through an enemy capital and finding the bodies of your subjects
hanging from meathooks probably doesn't help though. :P
The people in Lorderan aren't really Wrynn's subjects. Technically, they'd be Arthas's, but since he's left them behind (And also is primarily responsible for their current hellish state of undeath), they seem to be their own people.
Wrynn (and much of humanity & the alliance's) regrettable attitude is, "OK, you're dead, we can't be friends any more, because you're abominations". Guess what I'm trying to say, is Lorderan isn't really the alliance's any more. Its citizens are part of the horde now.
The Royal Apothecary Society had been experimenting on humans since the first babyquest. Those were his subjects being slaughtered, tortured, and hung on meathooks in the experiment hall.
Varian is in the right. He should have declared war on the horde.
Who says those were his subjects? Not all humans are part of the alliance, although I could see Varian making that mistake.
Of course humans captured near Tarren Mill would be. But there's been plenty of wrongs dealt by both sides. You don't need a flimsy excuse to declare war.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
One thing that never jived with me was the lack of other undead races in general. Where are all the forsaken dwarves, elves, gnomes, night elves, trolls, orcs, tauren, etc?
I mean some pop up here and there, but they seem entirely overlooked.
One thing that never jived with me was the lack of other undead races in general. Where are all the forsaken dwarves, elves, gnomes, night elves, trolls, orcs, tauren, etc?
I mean some pop up here and there, but they seem entirely overlooked.
I've always thought that, I mean, even if the Forsaken are primarily Lordaeron humans surely there would have been a handful of Dwarves that became collateral damage and got raised as undead.
Sylvanas, at the very least, wants to wipe humanity off the face of Azeroth. She wants the living dead. Problem is, she put the plague in Putress's hands and he dropped it too early. It's confirmed in the Arthas novel that she oversaw the plague's production on innocent human subjects.
As for the Forsaken etcs... Dark Rangers show up in Northrend, and for everything else, Blizzard is lazy. :P
Sylvanas, at the very least, wants to wipe humanity off the face of Azeroth. She wants the living dead. Problem is, she put the plague in Putress's hands and he dropped it too early. It's confirmed in the Arthas novel that she oversaw the plague's production on innocent human subjects.
As for the Forsaken etcs... Dark Rangers show up in Northrend, and for everything else, Blizzard is lazy. :P
Really, she wants what every leader wants. For their race to be the biggest and strongest and most populated. To her and the rest of the Forsaken, the Blight is necessary for the population of their race. If a guy forsaken and a girl forsaken get busy they don't pop out a living forsaken. The Blight is their means of creating new mans.
Sylvannas is driven by revenge...for what Arthas did to her and for the Alliance for further victimizing the Forsaken(who are undead through no fault of their own). Plus there's the scarlet nutjobs always coming after them so they all have to die. I also get the feeling she might be shooting to take over Arthas' throne in the process.
The Apothecary society was acting under her orders in developing the plague. It got used too soon though(before Arthas was dealt with) and Putress helped ursurp her throne(unnacceptable to Sylvannas).
It just feels like a big waste of a plot line to have so much of Northrend dedicated to a huge lore character and off him in the first tier.
And Sindragosa had a huge grudge on Malygos.
Oh and new info on WoW.com about Cat:
The worgen starting zone actually begins in a flashback. Gilneas is besieged by the Forsaken and gripped with rumors of plague. You meet a dissenter, Crowley, who believes that Gilneas' isolationism is a mistake and that they should rejoin the Alliance. When the worgen curse comes, you and Crowley lead the defensive, but are pushed back to the city cathedral, where you realize that the worgen you are fighting are your own friends and neighbors driven feral. As you realize this, the curse takes you.
Flash forward to some months later, when you're captured in the countryside by your old friend Crowley. From here, the portion we saw at BlizzCon begins.
As for the goblins, you start on Kezan as a pretty high level (society-wise, not game mechanics) executive, successful and rich, with a hot secretary. When Kezan begins to fall apart, you give your life savings to a Trade Prince who promises you safe passage to the mainland. Instead, he captures you and tries to sell into slavery. That's when the shipwreck happens, and again, the story picks up with the BlizzCon portion.
Apparently, the original goblin city, despite only appearing from levels 1-5, is sort of a Grand Theft Auto: Goblin City parody type of setup, full of sleaze and pollution and robot-powered American-style football. But that's not all. Apparently the goblins' brush with slavery and death hasn't wiped out their unique sensibilities and philosophies, as they'll actually reshape Azshara to look like the Horde symbol.
The goblins and worgen aren't the only ones to get story tidbits, though. We also learn a bit more about what the Horde's been up to. Garrosh is confirmed to be the new leader of the Horde. He's redesigned Orgrimmar, and has actually evicted all but the orcs and tauren from the center of the city, saying that only those two races are strong enough to defend it.
The ruins of Lordaeron are being expanded, with a pit opening into the Undercity. Zoram'gar Outpost will be a Warsong Hold style base. In zone modification news, Stranglethorn will be one of the most extensively altered zones. In addition, Southshore will have succumbed to tidal waves (which is notably different from what we heard at BlizzCon, which was that the Horde had conquered it).
The four new raids, the article says, will be more like Naxxramas than Sartharion. We assume that means more in scope and number of bosses than difficulty. Of course, much like Arthas, Deathwing won't be in one of the launch raids. Tol Barad, the new Wintergrasp-style zone, gets a mention, as does the fact that there will be at least one additional new Battleground in addition to Gilneas.
But that's not all. Apparently the goblins' brush with slavery and death hasn't wiped out their unique sensibilities and philosophies, as they'll actually reshape Azshara to look like the Horde symbol.
This just sounds like a gnomish plot. Once they catch wind of this plan, you know they're going to copy it, and it'll be another three expansions before Gnomeregan is rebuilt. Again.
On top of everything Garrosh is going to turn into a huge racist (sort of) lording over a segregated fortress-city? Hell why don't they just make it a raid and be done with it.
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The Royal Apothecary Society had been experimenting on humans since the first babyquest. Those were his subjects being slaughtered, tortured, and hung on meathooks in the experiment hall.
Varian is in the right. He should have declared war on the horde.
Thrall allowed the presence of a dreadlord in the horde all this time? That was a little suspect. I mean surely he had to know Varimathras was in the bowels of the undercity. Also he knows first hand a Dreadlord has never served any interest other than that of the burning legion.
Thrall should have declared war on that shit. Doing quests for the Tauren, Trolls, and Orcs felt like a completely different faction.
Don't get me wrong, the Forsaken quests are fun, and I like the story, but those guys were broken arrow, and Thrall was a little ignorant on that tip. And shit Cairne just stays up on his Mesa. Now that I think on it where has he been?
buy warhams
Oh don't worry, if the rumors are true he'll get plenty of action before Cataclysm.
Continuing on the New Plague thing - a lot of those were Varian's subjects and allies being slaughtered/experimented on, as the RAS was kidnapping human and undead subjects from all over...including other members of the horde.
As for whether Thrall was an ignoramus, remember that he's big on redemption and such - the Forsaken were seen as victims trying to carve out some kind of life for themselves in Tirisfal Glades. All Thrall really heard about was likely their battle against the Scourge and the Scarlet Crusade murdering them. I mean if he heard about undead capturing and experimenting on the living he could just chalk it up to the massive Scourge presence remaining in the Kingdom.
If the Warsong Fel Orcs could turn back, he's probably willing to extend that possibility to a Dreadlord. Besides, I dunno if it's ever really explicitly mentioned that Vari's known to be a big cheese in the Undercity. To other factions he might have been a rumour of "the power behind the throne" or something.
In any case, I believe Metzen said that Sylvanas is "in the doghouse" with the horde after BftU (whether because of the RAS or simply having to clean up her shit for her I don't know) and that Garrosh is forcing her to attack Gilneas.
Personally I'm sure Sylvanas heard stories about the Apothecaries' horrors, but waved them away as unfounded rumors or as the Scourge doing those things when the results of the Apothecaries' work came to light. They probably brought in Scourge and used the plague on it and it died, showing that their work was nearly complete, making Sylvanas happy. Of course they didn't show her using it on a living thing at the time which would have killed it, but hey. I'm sure Sylvanas is pretty torn up about the whole thing, realizing she was being used, that she didn't have control over the Dreadlord like she thought she did (she probably even swore to Thrall that she had him under her thumb to get Thrall to allow her keep him around, doubling the blow to her when it turned out that wasn't true), and how she made things worse not just for her Forsaken but for the Horde in general.
I see the Horde managed like the UN--where it's a group of races gathered together towards a common goal--while the Alliance is managed like a Kingdom--everyone's supposed to do what Wrynn says--so that's why Thrall escapes pretty blameless out of the whole thing. His job is to help unify these formerly savage/mindless/magic-addicted races and to move them towards peaceful civilization, not to micromanage everything everyone does.
I think you're giving Sylvanas herself a bit too much credit here. Way back in Vanilla the lore seemed to make it clear that Sylvanas knew the New Plague was meant for the living, not just the Scourge. Then again Blizz havn't been entirely consistent with Sylvanas' character, so maybe it's meant to have been retconned that the anti-personnel side of the New Plague was entirely Varimathras and his cohort's doing, and Sylvanas just meant it for Arthas and the scourge.
I could've sworn it was implied there was some kind of ulterior motive to her support of the blood elves, but I don't recall it now. I know the ghostlands missions involve a lot of bickering with the Forsaken sent to aid the belves, who only really seem to care about vengeance, IIRC. But yeah the "consumed by vengeance albeit with a softer side" seems to be where Blizz want Sylvanas. It'll be interesting to see where they take her now.
It's also worth noting that the organization of the RAS is fairly fractured; Research and Development, Testing, and Implantation, each with their own head apothecary.
Yeah, I believe the official heads of the RAS - from the WoW RPG handbook - have never even appeared in the game, or were scrubbed in favour of Putress. As I side note I thought it was weird Putress never appeared or was mentioned in any of the pre-Northrend RAS quests, though I suppose that since the Alliance were the only cats to see him after Wrathgate it would be anticlimatic to build him up in Horde quests and then get rid of him off-screen.
She's still got a pretty big soft spot for the elves, plus I imagine the Blood Elves still have a certain amount of loyalty for her as well. If there is any alternate reason it's probably for military purposes. Like having an ally in such close proximity, and one that already has an established trust. Undercity used to start at neutral with all the other horde factions, for obvious reasons such as: being undead, and developing biological weapons. They start out as friendly with Blood Elves, though.
Putress originally showed up in the pre-Wrath world event, as the guy who said he could cure the undead plague (and he did). His research, and the fruits of it, went noticed by Sylvanas who made him a Grand Apothecary.
He invented the cure to the scourge plague and also discovered that he could weaponize it against the scourge themselves.
As a member of the horde, you have to help develop the new plague in order to even get to the wrathgate.
Well that's still one event that was part of the WotLK launch anyway
I mean the regular quest lines that you did for members of the RAS all over vanilla WoW.
It makes sense as I believe the majority of the Forsaken are meant to be from Lordearon, which historically had some kind of treaty with King Tereanas or something. (I'm really mangling the names here)
edit: whoops I meant the Silvermoon elves had a treaty with the King, not the King had a contract with his own kingdom
*quietly makes magna carta joke*
Well it wouldn't make sense for Putress to be an established character. He was a random guy that showed up with the magical fix and he used it as leverage on the situation to his own ends. Pretty sure it's implied at this point that Varimathras got him the cure to the plague to set up the coup.
Developing the Blight wasn't the betrayal. Using it at the Wrathgate was.
I know the last bit, it's just I wasn't playing WoW before WotlK, so for me Putress just randomly turned up in Northrend as "Grand Apothecary" despite having never been mentioned in the bazillion quests I did for the RAS on the way up. It was very strange. :P
He just has a generic model and only gives you qs up to lvl 20 or so, hence I forgot he even existed. The co-founder and lieutenant of the society never appear though:
I really ought to buy the handbook, even if a lot of the info is totally outdated
Who says those were his subjects? Not all humans are part of the alliance, although I could see Varian making that mistake.
Of course humans captured near Tarren Mill would be. But there's been plenty of wrongs dealt by both sides. You don't need a flimsy excuse to declare war.
I would describe his face as punchable.
I mean some pop up here and there, but they seem entirely overlooked.
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I've always thought that, I mean, even if the Forsaken are primarily Lordaeron humans surely there would have been a handful of Dwarves that became collateral damage and got raised as undead.
Or something.
As for the Forsaken etcs... Dark Rangers show up in Northrend, and for everything else, Blizzard is lazy. :P
Really, she wants what every leader wants. For their race to be the biggest and strongest and most populated. To her and the rest of the Forsaken, the Blight is necessary for the population of their race. If a guy forsaken and a girl forsaken get busy they don't pop out a living forsaken. The Blight is their means of creating new mans.
The Apothecary society was acting under her orders in developing the plague. It got used too soon though(before Arthas was dealt with) and Putress helped ursurp her throne(unnacceptable to Sylvannas).
Your hand would turn to ash before you got an inch to his face.
He looks like Snidely Whisplash 2009.
The Eye of Eternity was only a setback!
I can honestly never tell anymore. It's not like The Eye left some giant question mark. It was pretty fucking definitive.
And Sindragosa had a huge grudge on Malygos.
Oh and new info on WoW.com about Cat:
Flash forward to some months later, when you're captured in the countryside by your old friend Crowley. From here, the portion we saw at BlizzCon begins.
As for the goblins, you start on Kezan as a pretty high level (society-wise, not game mechanics) executive, successful and rich, with a hot secretary. When Kezan begins to fall apart, you give your life savings to a Trade Prince who promises you safe passage to the mainland. Instead, he captures you and tries to sell into slavery. That's when the shipwreck happens, and again, the story picks up with the BlizzCon portion.
Apparently, the original goblin city, despite only appearing from levels 1-5, is sort of a Grand Theft Auto: Goblin City parody type of setup, full of sleaze and pollution and robot-powered American-style football. But that's not all. Apparently the goblins' brush with slavery and death hasn't wiped out their unique sensibilities and philosophies, as they'll actually reshape Azshara to look like the Horde symbol.
The goblins and worgen aren't the only ones to get story tidbits, though. We also learn a bit more about what the Horde's been up to. Garrosh is confirmed to be the new leader of the Horde. He's redesigned Orgrimmar, and has actually evicted all but the orcs and tauren from the center of the city, saying that only those two races are strong enough to defend it.
The ruins of Lordaeron are being expanded, with a pit opening into the Undercity. Zoram'gar Outpost will be a Warsong Hold style base. In zone modification news, Stranglethorn will be one of the most extensively altered zones. In addition, Southshore will have succumbed to tidal waves (which is notably different from what we heard at BlizzCon, which was that the Horde had conquered it).
The four new raids, the article says, will be more like Naxxramas than Sartharion. We assume that means more in scope and number of bosses than difficulty. Of course, much like Arthas, Deathwing won't be in one of the launch raids. Tol Barad, the new Wintergrasp-style zone, gets a mention, as does the fact that there will be at least one additional new Battleground in addition to Gilneas.