You always always want to have a backup plan especially when going into creative arts of any kind.
Looks like I'm fucked then.
Oh wait look at that, I'm not.
awesome?
ANGRY RANT FOLLOWS
I'm just annoyed at the whole "backup" thing because I had a hard enough time getting my art career off the ground without having to try to get a business degree or whatever on top of it, mainly because most of the teachers I've had, not to mention my family, acted like getting a career in art is a fucking foregone conclusion pipedream impossibility, and therefore not worth all that time and effort you need to expend to make it a possibility. I don't need you snide fuckers telling me I need a backup, I need you fuckers to fucking help me the fuck out and let me get to fucking work!ARGHAGRHARHRAR
All their presumptive, 'you're probably going to fail, so..." horseshitting has accomplished to date is making me very very angry, and making my future far more unstable than it ever had to be. If they wanted to help, they should have tried to help getting my portfolio to be better than the other 50 on an art director's desk, rather than giving me this 'well maybe someday your dreams with magically come true, meanwhile how about going into computers, you're good with computers' jackassery.
GARGAHRA
ARARAHGRHHAGRHAGRHARHARGH
If I have gotten anywhere in art, and if I'm ever going to get any further, the only reason I have gotten there or will get there, is/will be my refusal to compromise.
Man, I need to stop typing and get the fuck back to work before I jinx myself with this. Need to do more personal non-work artwork if I want to get anywhere.
NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
@bacon: I can understand you problem; no one likes being told what to do / how to lead their lives, but I'm of the opinion that a backup isn't a bad thing. It isn't saying "you will fail" but acknowledging the percentage of people who do. Sure, you don't want to be one who does fail and your working harder to prevent failure greatly increases your chances of sucess.
That doesn't mean a back up is a bad idea. Hell, I wanted to be a psychologist and I still had a back up plan. Now I'm a Lit major who, if worse comes to worse, will go into nursing.
MustangArbiter of Unpopular OpinionsRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
I totally agree with Bacons rant, there are far too many people in the world willing to tell you what you can't do and not enough telling you that you can. My parents were exactly the same, I love my folks and they were great parents, but as far as pursuing any dreams I had, they were fucking toxic.
So I'm working on computers now and it FUCKING SUCKS. Seriously guys, don't let anybody ever tell you what you can't do. Even if you don't become what you want to be, you'll land somewhere close enough that will make you happy in your work. Always do what you're passionate about, ALWAYS! Never listen to the fucks who tell you to take the safe easy way out.
Mustang on
0
Options
NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
@mustang: I too, think you should always follow what you love. However, I don't see what the problem is in having a back up plan. Lets say I become an English lit major, does that suddenly mean I can't keep playing music? Or writing books?
Lets say I go into nursing, does that mean I have to stop reading literature/ discussing it?
of course not. Besides, the window of oppertunity only leaves if you let it. Look at Sam Beam of Iron and Wine. He taught film at the University of Florida and recorded music on the side- about 5-7 years later, his demos were found and he got picked up by a record label. He's now one of the most respected singer/songwriters currently around.
The point is that, even though he loved music and original went on to a different career, he never gave up on what he loved and lived comfortablly while waiting for his break through.
You always always want to have a backup plan especially when going into creative arts of any kind.
Looks like I'm fucked then.
Oh wait look at that, I'm not.
awesome?
ANGRY RANT FOLLOWS
I'm just annoyed at the whole "backup" thing because I had a hard enough time getting my art career off the ground without having to try to get a business degree or whatever on top of it, mainly because most of the teachers I've had, not to mention my family, acted like getting a career in art is a fucking foregone conclusion pipedream impossibility, and therefore not worth all that time and effort you need to expend to make it a possibility. I don't need you snide fuckers telling me I need a backup, I need you fuckers to fucking help me the fuck out and let me get to fucking work!ARGHAGRHARHRAR
All their presumptive, 'you're probably going to fail, so..." horseshitting has accomplished to date is making me very very angry, and making my future far more unstable than it ever had to be. If they wanted to help, they should have tried to help getting my portfolio to be better than the other 50 on an art director's desk, rather than giving me this 'well maybe someday your dreams with magically come true, meanwhile how about going into computers, you're good with computers' jackassery.
GARGAHRA
ARARAHGRHHAGRHAGRHARHARGH
If I have gotten anywhere in art, and if I'm ever going to get any further, the only reason I have gotten there or will get there, is/will be my refusal to compromise.
Man, I need to stop typing and get the fuck back to work before I jinx myself with this. Need to do more personal non-work artwork if I want to get anywhere.
the fact of the matter is, for probably about 90% of your graduating class, it's true that they aren't going to get art jobs.
i'm watching Ryan's class graduating. Half of them are fucking retarded. One of them seems to think you don't need to know photoshop to be a designer. that's for production artists not high and mighty designers
my current boss told me that of his whole graduating class, only 3 currently hold jobs in the art field
but they were people who tried ... really hard to improve on what they learned in school after leaving.
fuck man, I HAVE a backup that I never ever plan on using... ever. I'm finishing the neuro degree for bragging rights, that's really it.
I have yet to have trouble finding jobs in the art field, because I am constantly working to improve my skillset and portfolio. Constantly. When I say constantly I mean I come home from my 9-5 design job and draw till I can't feel my hand anymore, or I fall asleep, or whatever the fuck comes first.
AoB is a person who tries. hard. All the time. he's not going to have trouble in the long run finding jobs. Everyone has lulls, it depends on a lot of things, mostly the market in your area. But this is the case with every field right now so get a backup, what are you going to get, a business degree? HA! people with their masters are fucking burning the things to keep warm in these economic times. A lot of good that will do you.
Art is like anything, you get yourself out there, you make yourself marketable, and you will land the jobs and make money... GOOD MONEY from it. You sit around with your fancy pants fine arts degree and wonder why the jobs aren't falling into your lap because you half assed 4 years of university and you'll find yourself flipping burgers or serving drinks for the rest of your life, bitterly telling everyone who'll listen that you wish you had a backup lined up.
I was in a similar situation. I studied English Lit. I didn't want to be a teacher. It was funny, because it seemed like the second I graduated and didn't have a job lined up, all of my support from family and friends just collapsed beneath me. And, immediately, I got suggestions to go work in a factory or learn to drive a semi-truck or become a police officer. So, I think I identify with what you're saying.
It took 536 resumes, a summer working as a merchandiser with a beer/wine distributor, getting a couple of IT certs, working my way up while continuing to send out resumes before I got the job out here. I knew it wasn't going to be easy when I decided to go with literature, but it was really frustrating to see just how shaky others' belief in my abilities and my choices really was, even if I knew that I was doing what I wanted to do and would get where I wanted to go.
@bacon: I can understand you problem; no one likes being told what to do / how to lead their lives, but I'm of the opinion that a backup isn't a bad thing. It isn't saying "you will fail" but acknowledging the percentage of people who do. Sure, you don't want to be one who does fail and your working harder to prevent failure greatly increases your chances of sucess.
That doesn't mean a back up is a bad idea. Hell, I wanted to be a psychologist and I still had a back up plan. Now I'm a Lit major who, if worse comes to worse, will go into nursing.
My point is that working for backup takes up the time and money and energy that should be going into your primary goal, and splitting focus will absolutely prevent you from making headway in that primary goal, especially if it's an extremely competitive and difficult field like professional art.
Going "lah de dah I'll just do BOTH and hedge my bets" sounds great in theory, but doesn't account for the fact that there isn't 40 hours in a day to really become very good at either of those things in a reasonable period of time.
This makes me feel bad that I woke up at 1pm today, and it's 6 now and haven't really done anything except write this rant.
To the paying work, awaaaaaaaaaayy!
NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
@bacon: well, I don't think anyone expects you to spend 20 hours a day doing just one thing let alone trying to double that time by trying to accomplish both. (they expect that from you once you already have the job :P )
That said, yes, going into two separate fields is difficult but if one doesn't pan out its worth knowing you have a good chance in getting into atleast one of them.
A friend of mine has had to go back to college 3 separate times because what he was looking for had no jobs. the third time he went into nursing and had a job before he graduated that program...
@bacon: I can understand you problem; no one likes being told what to do / how to lead their lives, but I'm of the opinion that a backup isn't a bad thing. It isn't saying "you will fail" but acknowledging the percentage of people who do. Sure, you don't want to be one who does fail and your working harder to prevent failure greatly increases your chances of sucess.
That doesn't mean a back up is a bad idea. Hell, I wanted to be a psychologist and I still had a back up plan. Now I'm a Lit major who, if worse comes to worse, will go into nursing.
My point is that working for backup takes up the time and money and energy that should be going into your primary goal, and splitting focus will absolutely prevent you from making headway in that primary goal, especially if it's an extremely competitive and difficult field like professional art.
Going "lah de dah I'll just do BOTH and hedge my bets" sounds great in theory, but doesn't account for the fact that there isn't 40 hours in a day to really become very good at either of those things in a reasonable period of time.
Things my family have suggested to do as 'backup plans' from my english/art degree:
*computer science (did it, almost died)
*business (useless)
*teaching (nuh-uh, no time ever)
*law school, like that's going to leave me any time
Constantly. When I say constantly I mean I come home from my 9-5 design job and draw till I can't feel my hand anymore, or I fall asleep, or whatever the fuck comes first.
Eh? Didn't I tell you guys? Hardest working person I know.
This makes me feel bad that I woke up at 1pm today, and it's 6 now and haven't really done anything except write this rant.
To the paying work, awaaaaaaaaaayy!
EDIT: FUCK do I need to work on my portfolio!
pfft most of my day at work lately is spent playing spider solitaire because we're in between projects
and I have my off days
shit I have my off months but I usually make up for it when I recover by churning it out left and right.
My point was more that it's obvious that you care and are trying hard to make this your career, which is more than can be said for the majority of people who think they want an art job.
I mean sure there's the rare person who really really wants it but just can't grasp the concepts and well... sucks... i feel bad for those people, I've met some. But they are a rarity. I think usually those people just can't take crits because their art teachers coddled them or something.
Constantly. When I say constantly I mean I come home from my 9-5 design job and draw till I can't feel my hand anymore, or I fall asleep, or whatever the fuck comes first.
Eh? Didn't I tell you guys? Hardest working person I know.
I think Gibs might be the hardest working artist I know. I saw his sketchbooks.... jesus, boy draws a lot.
I mean, shit, I've got the zombie painting that's my av/sig into a gallery for next month's show. I got it in there by walking into the gallery and getting to know the curator, and then buying him a coffee the next morning when I saw him at a coffee shop.
i've got a new job. hotel clerk. 9pm to 5 am. 40 hours a week but at minimum fucking wage. bittersweet.
I told myself once I'd never work a minimum wage job again
then i told myself I'm going back to school for art in september
so I'm enjoying a salary and full benefits while they last....
I actually probably won't get a true job while I'm studying. I might pick up a few shifts here and there at the old bar I used to work at. But I might just attempt to go full freelance. I got another really cool long term offer (can't talk about yet... soooon) that might couple with some other existing work I have to keep me afloat for a while.
Ugh, it stresses me out to think about, but I really want the time I spend at art school to be almost entirely just working my ass off.
beavotron on
0
Options
NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
Things my family have suggested to do as 'backup plans' from my english/art degree:
*computer science (did it, almost died)
*business (useless)
*teaching (nuh-uh, no time ever)
*law school, like that's going to leave me any time
Same here on all accounts.
Irony: When in elementary school through the first couple years of high school, I wanted to be a game programmer and might have gone into computer science. But I didn't get anywhere with it, because whenever my grades slipped below a B+ because I was playing around trying to teach myself to program in QuakeC or whatever, my parents would punish me by taking away my computer.
Years later, "WHY DON'T YOU GO INTO COMPUTER SCIENCE THAT MAKES MONEY" Maybe I would have if you hadn't prevented me from learning fuck-all about it in the first place you dipshits!
not at all
I got to know the big people I know because of my work
they found it, they liked it, they emailed me, now I got mad connections.
I worked my way there, it was long and there was a whole lot of obstacles, I'm still fucking pushing my ass off, but I've earned every contact I've gotten with my work
...by making valentines.
haha
beavotron on
0
Options
NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
to be fair, I'm not sure how common that situation is. Granted, with the net I'm sure that's a lot more common that it used to be.
(also your valentines were fucking fantastic, if they didn't get you noticed I'd have killed somebody and taped a paper saying "Hire Beavotron now.")
Things my family have suggested to do as 'backup plans' from my english/art degree:
*computer science (did it, almost died)
*business (useless)
*teaching (nuh-uh, no time ever)
*law school, like that's going to leave me any time
Same here on all accounts.
Irony: When in elementary school through the first couple years of high school, I wanted to be a programmer and might have gone into computer science. But I didn't get anywhere with it, because whenever my grades slipped below a B+ because I was playing around trying to teach myself to program in QuakeC or whatever, my parents would punish me by taking away my computer.
Years later, "WHY DON'T YOU GO INTO COMPUTER SCIENCE THAT MAKES MONEY" Maybe I would if you hadn't prevented me from learning fuck-all about it in the first place you dipshits!
See, I did want to go into CS, though looking back it was largely that everyone was telling me that I had no chance doing anything creative for a living. I did it while I worked midnights, which was the closest thing to hell I could imagine - going to work, getting 3 hours of sleep before going to class, and then sleeping for another 3 hours before going to work again is terribad.
on top of that, any time i had to do an actual assignment i just doodled everywhere and wrote fiction. a lot of times, i'd crib code from classmates to pass - i'm not proud of that, but i was extremely spineless and bent to my parents' will.
i'm glad that i have CS experience, because now HTML, PHP, CSS are nothing as far as learning them goes. i'm also glad i didn't stay in it, because i'd probably be dead now - and i mean that seriously.
to be fair, I'm not sure how common that situation is. Granted, with the net I'm sure that's a lot more common that it used to be.
(also your valentines were fucking fantastic, if they didn't get you noticed I'd have killed somebody and taped a paper saying "Hire Beavotron now.)
I just found a niche, that's all.
If you do something different that stands out somehow, people eat it up.
Well, you can also do something different that stands out and no one notices (so many great bands/ tv shows / artists / authors don't get recognition by the people).
to be fair, I'm not sure how common that situation is. Granted, with the net I'm sure that's a lot more common that it used to be.
(also your valentines were fucking fantastic, if they didn't get you noticed I'd have killed somebody and taped a paper saying "Hire Beavotron now.)
I just found a niche, that's all.
If you do something different that stands out somehow, people eat it up.
Well, you can also do something different that stands out and no one notices (so many great bands/ tv shows / artists / authors don't get recognition by the people).
Warren Ellis:
It was always a hard slog on The Engine: comics people have resistance to promoting their work, weirdly, and making them do something as minimal as telling people they have a comic out this week was something stupidly hard work. But I have to say that now, when not wanting to tell strangers about your work is not only courting low sales and cancellation, but now also courting not getting your book distributed at all…? Now’s the time to get the fuck over that, really.
If you want to get your work seen, you have to show it to people. That's really all there is to it.
Beav didn't appeal to the masses. She appealed to the small cross-section of people who love games and love quirky valentines with a sense of humour. It always works better when you've got a specific type of person in mind (even, likely as in her case, 'myself') than some nebulous member of 'the masses' whose only real characteristic is shitty taste.
Posts
Slept in a chair. Woke up, did the day's work. Really tired now.
Also Thief 4!
Hopefully it's better than Thief 3 and at least on par with Thief 2, I have fond memories that need to be nourished with fresh content.
I usually don't have coworkers
unless I draw faces on all the toxic chemicals around me
Even better! Then you won't have to listen to them complain about the word they got for charades!
ANGRY RANT FOLLOWS
All their presumptive, 'you're probably going to fail, so..." horseshitting has accomplished to date is making me very very angry, and making my future far more unstable than it ever had to be. If they wanted to help, they should have tried to help getting my portfolio to be better than the other 50 on an art director's desk, rather than giving me this 'well maybe someday your dreams with magically come true, meanwhile how about going into computers, you're good with computers' jackassery.
GARGAHRA
ARARAHGRHHAGRHAGRHARHARGH
If I have gotten anywhere in art, and if I'm ever going to get any further, the only reason I have gotten there or will get there, is/will be my refusal to compromise.
Man, I need to stop typing and get the fuck back to work before I jinx myself with this. Need to do more personal non-work artwork if I want to get anywhere.
Twitter
That doesn't mean a back up is a bad idea. Hell, I wanted to be a psychologist and I still had a back up plan. Now I'm a Lit major who, if worse comes to worse, will go into nursing.
So I'm working on computers now and it FUCKING SUCKS. Seriously guys, don't let anybody ever tell you what you can't do. Even if you don't become what you want to be, you'll land somewhere close enough that will make you happy in your work. Always do what you're passionate about, ALWAYS! Never listen to the fucks who tell you to take the safe easy way out.
Lets say I go into nursing, does that mean I have to stop reading literature/ discussing it?
of course not. Besides, the window of oppertunity only leaves if you let it. Look at Sam Beam of Iron and Wine. He taught film at the University of Florida and recorded music on the side- about 5-7 years later, his demos were found and he got picked up by a record label. He's now one of the most respected singer/songwriters currently around.
The point is that, even though he loved music and original went on to a different career, he never gave up on what he loved and lived comfortablly while waiting for his break through.
the fact of the matter is, for probably about 90% of your graduating class, it's true that they aren't going to get art jobs.
i'm watching Ryan's class graduating. Half of them are fucking retarded. One of them seems to think you don't need to know photoshop to be a designer. that's for production artists not high and mighty designers
my current boss told me that of his whole graduating class, only 3 currently hold jobs in the art field
but they were people who tried ... really hard to improve on what they learned in school after leaving.
fuck man, I HAVE a backup that I never ever plan on using... ever. I'm finishing the neuro degree for bragging rights, that's really it.
I have yet to have trouble finding jobs in the art field, because I am constantly working to improve my skillset and portfolio. Constantly. When I say constantly I mean I come home from my 9-5 design job and draw till I can't feel my hand anymore, or I fall asleep, or whatever the fuck comes first.
AoB is a person who tries. hard. All the time. he's not going to have trouble in the long run finding jobs. Everyone has lulls, it depends on a lot of things, mostly the market in your area. But this is the case with every field right now so get a backup, what are you going to get, a business degree? HA! people with their masters are fucking burning the things to keep warm in these economic times. A lot of good that will do you.
Art is like anything, you get yourself out there, you make yourself marketable, and you will land the jobs and make money... GOOD MONEY from it. You sit around with your fancy pants fine arts degree and wonder why the jobs aren't falling into your lap because you half assed 4 years of university and you'll find yourself flipping burgers or serving drinks for the rest of your life, bitterly telling everyone who'll listen that you wish you had a backup lined up.
It took 536 resumes, a summer working as a merchandiser with a beer/wine distributor, getting a couple of IT certs, working my way up while continuing to send out resumes before I got the job out here. I knew it wasn't going to be easy when I decided to go with literature, but it was really frustrating to see just how shaky others' belief in my abilities and my choices really was, even if I knew that I was doing what I wanted to do and would get where I wanted to go.
Ryan M Long Photography
Buy my Prints!
My point is that working for backup takes up the time and money and energy that should be going into your primary goal, and splitting focus will absolutely prevent you from making headway in that primary goal, especially if it's an extremely competitive and difficult field like professional art.
Going "lah de dah I'll just do BOTH and hedge my bets" sounds great in theory, but doesn't account for the fact that there isn't 40 hours in a day to really become very good at either of those things in a reasonable period of time.
Twitter
Aww. :oops:
This makes me feel bad that I woke up at 1pm today, and it's 6 now and haven't really done anything except write this rant.
To the paying work, awaaaaaaaaaayy!
EDIT: FUCK do I need to work on my portfolio!
Twitter
That said, yes, going into two separate fields is difficult but if one doesn't pan out its worth knowing you have a good chance in getting into atleast one of them.
A friend of mine has had to go back to college 3 separate times because what he was looking for had no jobs. the third time he went into nursing and had a job before he graduated that program...
Things my family have suggested to do as 'backup plans' from my english/art degree:
*computer science (did it, almost died)
*business (useless)
*teaching (nuh-uh, no time ever)
*law school, like that's going to leave me any time
Eh? Didn't I tell you guys? Hardest working person I know.
pfft most of my day at work lately is spent playing spider solitaire because we're in between projects
and I have my off days
shit I have my off months but I usually make up for it when I recover by churning it out left and right.
My point was more that it's obvious that you care and are trying hard to make this your career, which is more than can be said for the majority of people who think they want an art job.
I mean sure there's the rare person who really really wants it but just can't grasp the concepts and well... sucks... i feel bad for those people, I've met some. But they are a rarity. I think usually those people just can't take crits because their art teachers coddled them or something.
I think Gibs might be the hardest working artist I know. I saw his sketchbooks.... jesus, boy draws a lot.
Gotta be proactive. Can't do shit otherwise.
It's not that I bought him a coffee - it's in based on its strengths as a painting. But he wouldn't know about it if I hadn't shown it to him.
I told myself once I'd never work a minimum wage job again
then i told myself I'm going back to school for art in september
so I'm enjoying a salary and full benefits while they last....
I actually probably won't get a true job while I'm studying. I might pick up a few shifts here and there at the old bar I used to work at. But I might just attempt to go full freelance. I got another really cool long term offer (can't talk about yet... soooon) that might couple with some other existing work I have to keep me afloat for a while.
Ugh, it stresses me out to think about, but I really want the time I spend at art school to be almost entirely just working my ass off.
... I wasn't whining... I was making a statement about the way things work.
Jesus, do I really sound like a 4 year old brat?
Same here on all accounts.
Irony: When in elementary school through the first couple years of high school, I wanted to be a game programmer and might have gone into computer science. But I didn't get anywhere with it, because whenever my grades slipped below a B+ because I was playing around trying to teach myself to program in QuakeC or whatever, my parents would punish me by taking away my computer.
Years later, "WHY DON'T YOU GO INTO COMPUTER SCIENCE THAT MAKES MONEY" Maybe I would have if you hadn't prevented me from learning fuck-all about it in the first place you dipshits!
Twitter
not at all
I got to know the big people I know because of my work
they found it, they liked it, they emailed me, now I got mad connections.
I worked my way there, it was long and there was a whole lot of obstacles, I'm still fucking pushing my ass off, but I've earned every contact I've gotten with my work
...by making valentines.
haha
(also your valentines were fucking fantastic, if they didn't get you noticed I'd have killed somebody and taped a paper saying "Hire Beavotron now.")
See, I did want to go into CS, though looking back it was largely that everyone was telling me that I had no chance doing anything creative for a living. I did it while I worked midnights, which was the closest thing to hell I could imagine - going to work, getting 3 hours of sleep before going to class, and then sleeping for another 3 hours before going to work again is terribad.
on top of that, any time i had to do an actual assignment i just doodled everywhere and wrote fiction. a lot of times, i'd crib code from classmates to pass - i'm not proud of that, but i was extremely spineless and bent to my parents' will.
i'm glad that i have CS experience, because now HTML, PHP, CSS are nothing as far as learning them goes. i'm also glad i didn't stay in it, because i'd probably be dead now - and i mean that seriously.
I just found a niche, that's all.
If you do something different that stands out somehow, people eat it up.
Well, you can also do something different that stands out and no one notices (so many great bands/ tv shows / artists / authors don't get recognition by the people).
I think your point was that you were agreeing with me
Warren Ellis:
If you want to get your work seen, you have to show it to people. That's really all there is to it.
Beav didn't appeal to the masses. She appealed to the small cross-section of people who love games and love quirky valentines with a sense of humour. It always works better when you've got a specific type of person in mind (even, likely as in her case, 'myself') than some nebulous member of 'the masses' whose only real characteristic is shitty taste.
They can still walk away unfazed (even while critics could applaud it.)
I just show you guys
then you guys seemingly show the internet?
That's how I imagine it works in my head anyways..
I actually post stuff on deviantart, behance, artician, here and occasionally conceptart.org
and my website of course
I'm all about self promotion.