Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Man hunting down the info for that kind of stuff is some bullshit. It's a shame that the most informative source of info on the Githzerai is Planescape: Torment, because I don't want to play that game yet another time. At least, not right now.
The players are getting a really good handle on their powers and skills and how to work with each other to accomplish shit.
Bit of background: I'm running a Mutants & Masterminds campaign, set in an original setting I previously talked about here.
Today, our motley band of heroes turned to investigate a camp.
See, in this setting, super-heroes have pretty much died out, etc. as I mention above there in that link. However, mutants still exist in this setting, although not even close to as common as they are in Marvel.
So, the question gets raised of what happens to these people? If the world is generally intolerant towards superheroes or superpowered people in general, what about the people born with superpowers?
One answer is this camp the heroes found out about. At the Adam Horizon Camp for Serenity, young "genetic aberrants" are given the opportunity to find a way to live their life without the stigma of being a "mutant". They learn to suppress their powers and mutations, how to live a normal life, how to resist the urge to use these dangerous and deviant capabilities that only lead to corruption and abuse.
Obviously, the players found this whole thing quite abhorrent and set out to find more about it.
Man hunting down the info for that kind of stuff is some bullshit. It's a shame that the most informative source of info on the Githzerai is Planescape: Torment, because I don't want to play that game yet another time. At least, not right now.
The hundred years in the future thing is perfectly fine.
The Spellplague seems fucking stupid.
Gods missing, or barely even mentioned in the new Campaign Setting book. Mystra dead, which destroyed the weave, unleashing the Spellplague, pretty much destroying the weave, but, oh, mortals didn't need the bitch or the weave to cast magic anyhow? Fucking stupid.
Creatures being affected by the Spellplague just... reminds me of the plague in World of Warcraft.
Thay is all fucked to hell and back.
The feeling that the world gives me now is 'post-apocalyptic', similar to Dark Sun, not the magical world of the Realms I grew up with and loved.
It's nice to see Cyric is still a gigantic cockbag, and Netheril coming back into play is nice, and some parts of the world being fused with Abeir is neat, but other than that... I'm not liking it so far.
The dependency on Deities to do fucking anything in Forgotten Realms was one of its biggest turn-offs for me. Glad to see that they're moving away from that.
Doobh on
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The hundred years in the future thing is perfectly fine.
The Spellplague seems fucking stupid.
Gods missing, or barely even mentioned in the new Campaign Setting book. Mystra dead, which destroyed the weave, unleashing the Spellplague, pretty much destroying the weave, but, oh, mortals didn't need the bitch or the weave to cast magic anyhow? Fucking stupid.
Creatures being affected by the Spellplague just... reminds me of the plague in World of Warcraft.
Thay is all fucked to hell and back.
The feeling that the world gives me now is 'post-apocalyptic', similar to Dark Sun, not the magical world of the Realms I grew up with and loved.
It's nice to see Cyric is still a gigantic cockbag, and Netheril coming back into play is nice, and some parts of the world being fused with Abeir is neat, but other than that... I'm not liking it so far.
To be fair, mortals didn't need the Weave in the beginning; Mystra put it in place to prevent something like Karsus' Folly from ever happening again. She served as a stop-gap between the raw, unfettered power of magic so things never got as crazy as they did before then. Mechanically it served as device to explain the way spellcasting changed between editions.
Thay was fucked before Szass Tam took over, the Spellplague and the resulting chaos just allowed him to take control away. An entire nation of undeath is a pretty cool concept in any campaign setting, not to mention the various Red Wizard enclaves that still hold renegade Red Wizards. Plenty of room for adventure there.
Killing off a good part of the pantheon? Good Thing.
Powerful wizards going insane over the breaking of the stupid weave (stupid) and ridding us of their chicanery, followed by the new guys learning how to use magic in a new way? Good Thing.
High level NPC's getting axed and Elminster in an old folk's home? Good Thing.
100 years after an apocalypse so society is rebuilding but the world is dangerous again while still having a high fantasy flavor that is an FR signature? Good Thing.
Swordmages? Good Thing.
Dark Pact Warlocks? Good Thing.
Some places of the past falling and others rising? A realm of undeath, the re-emergence of Netheril? Good Thing.
Spellplague? Pretty alright thing, and more or less optional depending on where you set your campaign. Introduces a new faction of villains, which are okay I guess but could be better.
Underdark getting the shit kicked out of it and drow escaping to the surface to become a part of the society, giving us a Drow concept that can go beyond a Drizzt-ish escaping and dealing with an unkind society? Good Thing.
I will actually play FR now thanks to this stuff. Before I knew some of the lore and that was enough to make me not want to play it.
Also the 'dependency on Deities' thing isn't even remotely correct. Following the events of the Time of Troubles, a god's power and status was dependent on the strength and number of mortals that worshiped them. The idea of a realm where Gods have to actively participate in goings on of mortals in order to stay gods is pretty cool to me.
The wall in the after life annoys the fuck out of me. I don't like my character getting forced to worship a deity, unless he prefers melting into a wall of souls.
Doobh on
Miss me? Find me on:
Twitch (I stream most days of the week) Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
It's a part of the Realms and it's Cosmology; Gods really do exist and you can see their existence made manifest in the power of their clerics' prayers.
Also, only the False wind up in the Wall. The Faithless just wander around Kelemvor's domain.
Killing off a good part of the pantheon? Good Thing.
Powerful wizards going insane over the breaking of the stupid weave (stupid) and ridding us of their chicanery, followed by the new guys learning how to use magic in a new way? Good Thing.
High level NPC's getting axed and Elminster in an old folk's home? Good Thing.
100 years after an apocalypse so society is rebuilding but the world is dangerous again while still having a high fantasy flavor that is an FR signature? Good Thing.
Swordmages? Good Thing.
Dark Pact Warlocks? Good Thing.
Some places of the past falling and others rising? A realm of undeath, the re-emergence of Netheril? Good Thing.
Spellplague? Pretty alright thing, and more or less optional depending on where you set your campaign. Introduces a new faction of villains, which are okay I guess but could be better.
Underdark getting the shit kicked out of it and drow escaping to the surface to become a part of the society, giving us a Drow concept that can go beyond a Drizzt-ish escaping and dealing with an unkind society? Good Thing.
I will actually play FR now thanks to this stuff. Before I knew some of the lore and that was enough to make me not want to play it.
While I disagree with practically everything you said, I'll at the very least give it a chance, instead of outright dismissing it. But, like I said, it no longer feels like the Forgotten Realms that I knew and loved since I was... what? Seven or eight? It feels like an entirely different campaign now. Since you were not a big fan of the lore beforehand, it's understandable that you like the new changes, and I understand there's a lot of other Forgotten Realms fans that enjoy what the new changes bring to the table. Unfortunately, I don't.
While I disagree with practically everything you said, I'll at the very least give it a chance, instead of outright dismissing it. But, like I said, it no longer feels like the Forgotten Realms that I knew and loved since I was... what? Seven or eight? It feels like an entirely different campaign now. Since you were not a big fan of the lore beforehand, it's understandable that you like the new changes, and I understand there's a lot of other Forgotten Realms fans that enjoy what the new changes bring to the table. Unfortunately, I don't.
People got mad when Greyhawk changed with the "From the Ashes" release back in the 80's IIRC.
Campaign settings will invariably get re-booted from time to time.
Whether you like the changes or dislike them, either way it's a chance to play a setting that still is familiar but has a lot of new material to explore and contend with.
While I disagree with practically everything you said, I'll at the very least give it a chance, instead of outright dismissing it. But, like I said, it no longer feels like the Forgotten Realms that I knew and loved since I was... what? Seven or eight? It feels like an entirely different campaign now. Since you were not a big fan of the lore beforehand, it's understandable that you like the new changes, and I understand there's a lot of other Forgotten Realms fans that enjoy what the new changes bring to the table. Unfortunately, I don't.
People got mad when Greyhawk changed with the "From the Ashes" release back in the 80's IIRC.
Campaign settings will invariably get re-booted from time to time.
Whether you like the changes or dislike them, either way it's a chance to play a setting that still is familiar but has a lot of new material to explore and contend with.
The Spellplague is a wonderful device for DMs in the FR. You can come up with the weirdest, most fucked up monster or NPC or whole location and claim it was created due to the Spellplague because it warped everything it touched on the most absolutely fundamental levels.
Also: Big Ass Spooky Floating Island Thing From the Far Realm Floating Around The Moonshaes = Awesome.
While I disagree with practically everything you said, I'll at the very least give it a chance, instead of outright dismissing it. But, like I said, it no longer feels like the Forgotten Realms that I knew and loved since I was... what? Seven or eight? It feels like an entirely different campaign now. Since you were not a big fan of the lore beforehand, it's understandable that you like the new changes, and I understand there's a lot of other Forgotten Realms fans that enjoy what the new changes bring to the table. Unfortunately, I don't.
People got mad when Greyhawk changed with the "From the Ashes" release back in the 80's IIRC.
Campaign settings will invariably get re-booted from time to time.
Whether you like the changes or dislike them, either way it's a chance to play a setting that still is familiar but has a lot of new material to explore and contend with.
Change. It's what's for dinner.
Greyhawk always sucked, though.
A great deal of "Living Greyhawk" players (there was a hell of a lot of them), as well as folks who have played back in the AD&D days will disagree.
EDIT: and for the record, it's not that I didn't like the FR lore. Some of it is great. It's just that dealing with the huge amount of it that was present in the setting was something I found to be kind of a hassle, and as such I never ran an FR game
While I disagree with practically everything you said, I'll at the very least give it a chance, instead of outright dismissing it. But, like I said, it no longer feels like the Forgotten Realms that I knew and loved since I was... what? Seven or eight? It feels like an entirely different campaign now. Since you were not a big fan of the lore beforehand, it's understandable that you like the new changes, and I understand there's a lot of other Forgotten Realms fans that enjoy what the new changes bring to the table. Unfortunately, I don't.
People got mad when Greyhawk changed with the "From the Ashes" release back in the 80's IIRC.
Campaign settings will invariably get re-booted from time to time.
Whether you like the changes or dislike them, either way it's a chance to play a setting that still is familiar but has a lot of new material to explore and contend with.
Change. It's what's for dinner.
Greyhawk always sucked, though.
A great deal of "Living Greyhawk" players (there was a hell of a lot of them), as well as folks who have played back in the AD&D days will disagree.
Speaking as a person who absolutely loves everything related to Warhammer and Warhammer 40k, Dark Sun was too dark for me.
i got into the rpg scene towards the end of 2nd edition's lifespan. my friend's cousin was a (fantastic, in retrospect) DM who'd just gotten the dark sun box set. that motherfucker made us slit throats for months to get our metal armor and weapons, and then the next time we played we got hoodwinked and all our metal shit got stolen. we spent the better part of a year trying to get all our shit back, and it was probably the most fun i've ever had in an RPG
i think 2nd ed will always be my favorite d&d even though it's the clunkiest bullshit ever. back then they had the balls to try out interesting stuff, which resulted in some really incredible campaign settings. i can understand why they wouldn't bring dark sun back, but give me my fucking 4e planescape
time of troubles has been a thing since at least 3e
also it bothers me that all the big game companies are simplifying shit so much. 40k did this too. am i alone in liking hideously complicated rulesets?
FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
edited May 2009
Meh, I looked at 4ed Realms and passed. I think I'm closer to the Sneak! in opinion than everyone else. I mean, I can see that there's a lot of interesting stuff going on - the idea of earthmote ruined cities totally has me in adventure-designer boner-land - but at thesame time, found the flavour and variety of adventuring options best in 3rd edition realms.
Want points of light in the darkness wilderness? Silver Marches, The Moonsea, Damara/Vaasa, Chult, Western Heartlands.
Heavy political intrigue in a well established system of governance? Waterdeep, Sembia, Amn, Calimshan.
War between massive nation-states? Unther/Mulhorand, Tethyr's north and east, Kingdom of Many Arrows.
Greek-myth influenced Jason and the argonauts-style high adventure? Chessenta.
Tolkien-esque elves, dwarves and humans vs. Orcs? The Silver Marches.
One of the things I liked about the setting was it was so complete and so full of life that there were literally dozens of options for adventures and origins. If you wanted to play a halfling, you weren't limited to one possible origin region if you wanted to come from a halfling community - you could pick from Luirien, Tethyr, The Sword Coast or any one of another handful of places where halflings are mentioned as having a sizeable community. It was a campaign with everything and the kitchen sink. And it was this massive variety that I loved to work with.
I find the 4ed campaign setting interesting and I can see it's value, but as a setting, I think of it as distinct from previous editions. To much of it is flavoured as points-of-light and epic adventure - that' cool, I can understand that, and I can see the appeal. But it's not as interesting to me as 3ed setting, so I just keep playing in 3ed FRCS. The words, the setting, and the flavour have no grounding in rules. I see no reason not to keep playing in the existing world with the new rules. I have no problem with the difference in magic, or adopting the new classes, or the fact that Elminster is still alive and well, taking a reduced amount of influence in the world, and the Gods are all pricks who often meddle on a worldwide scale but not in any meaningful way that influences a small group of heroes fighting back Hobgoblins in the Snowflake mountains.
time of troubles has been a thing since at least 3e
also it bothers me that all the big game companies are simplifying shit so much. 40k did this too. am i alone in liking hideously complicated rulesets?
In the case of 4e, it's more a matter of making the rules more accessible to new players, making the game quick and easy to learn, rather than having to pore over the same handful of pages over and over to make sure you're reading that rule right, and no wait you have to reference sourcebook X because it has a clause in it about how it applies in this situation.
Some people don't get that companies like WotC are a business, too. The more people they can get playing, the more money they can pull in.
i'm not saying my way is the best way or anything like that; i completely understand why they're doing it. i just fondly remember the old days of THAC0 and -10 being the best armor class
Posts
The players are getting a really good handle on their powers and skills and how to work with each other to accomplish shit.
Bit of background: I'm running a Mutants & Masterminds campaign, set in an original setting I previously talked about here.
Today, our motley band of heroes turned to investigate a camp.
See, in this setting, super-heroes have pretty much died out, etc. as I mention above there in that link. However, mutants still exist in this setting, although not even close to as common as they are in Marvel.
So, the question gets raised of what happens to these people? If the world is generally intolerant towards superheroes or superpowered people in general, what about the people born with superpowers?
One answer is this camp the heroes found out about. At the Adam Horizon Camp for Serenity, young "genetic aberrants" are given the opportunity to find a way to live their life without the stigma of being a "mutant". They learn to suppress their powers and mutations, how to live a normal life, how to resist the urge to use these dangerous and deviant capabilities that only lead to corruption and abuse.
Obviously, the players found this whole thing quite abhorrent and set out to find more about it.
Hilarity ensued.
ahahahahaha
why the damn do you not want to play torment?
hitting hot metal with hammers
They made it better.
The Spellplague seems fucking stupid.
Gods missing, or barely even mentioned in the new Campaign Setting book. Mystra dead, which destroyed the weave, unleashing the Spellplague, pretty much destroying the weave, but, oh, mortals didn't need the bitch or the weave to cast magic anyhow? Fucking stupid.
Creatures being affected by the Spellplague just... reminds me of the plague in World of Warcraft.
Thay is all fucked to hell and back.
The feeling that the world gives me now is 'post-apocalyptic', similar to Dark Sun, not the magical world of the Realms I grew up with and loved.
It's nice to see Cyric is still a gigantic cockbag, and Netheril coming back into play is nice, and some parts of the world being fused with Abeir is neat, but other than that... I'm not liking it so far.
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
To be fair, mortals didn't need the Weave in the beginning; Mystra put it in place to prevent something like Karsus' Folly from ever happening again. She served as a stop-gap between the raw, unfettered power of magic so things never got as crazy as they did before then. Mechanically it served as device to explain the way spellcasting changed between editions.
Thay was fucked before Szass Tam took over, the Spellplague and the resulting chaos just allowed him to take control away. An entire nation of undeath is a pretty cool concept in any campaign setting, not to mention the various Red Wizard enclaves that still hold renegade Red Wizards. Plenty of room for adventure there.
Killing off a good part of the pantheon? Good Thing.
Powerful wizards going insane over the breaking of the stupid weave (stupid) and ridding us of their chicanery, followed by the new guys learning how to use magic in a new way? Good Thing.
High level NPC's getting axed and Elminster in an old folk's home? Good Thing.
100 years after an apocalypse so society is rebuilding but the world is dangerous again while still having a high fantasy flavor that is an FR signature? Good Thing.
Swordmages? Good Thing.
Dark Pact Warlocks? Good Thing.
Some places of the past falling and others rising? A realm of undeath, the re-emergence of Netheril? Good Thing.
Spellplague? Pretty alright thing, and more or less optional depending on where you set your campaign. Introduces a new faction of villains, which are okay I guess but could be better.
Underdark getting the shit kicked out of it and drow escaping to the surface to become a part of the society, giving us a Drow concept that can go beyond a Drizzt-ish escaping and dealing with an unkind society? Good Thing.
I will actually play FR now thanks to this stuff. Before I knew some of the lore and that was enough to make me not want to play it.
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Also, only the False wind up in the Wall. The Faithless just wander around Kelemvor's domain.
Dark Sun was so awesome
hitting hot metal with hammers
While I disagree with practically everything you said, I'll at the very least give it a chance, instead of outright dismissing it. But, like I said, it no longer feels like the Forgotten Realms that I knew and loved since I was... what? Seven or eight? It feels like an entirely different campaign now. Since you were not a big fan of the lore beforehand, it's understandable that you like the new changes, and I understand there's a lot of other Forgotten Realms fans that enjoy what the new changes bring to the table. Unfortunately, I don't.
Not only was Dark Sun awesome, but the PC games, and especially Dark Sun Online, were also awesome.
People got mad when Greyhawk changed with the "From the Ashes" release back in the 80's IIRC.
Campaign settings will invariably get re-booted from time to time.
Whether you like the changes or dislike them, either way it's a chance to play a setting that still is familiar but has a lot of new material to explore and contend with.
Change. It's what's for dinner.
Greyhawk always sucked, though.
Also: Big Ass Spooky Floating Island Thing From the Far Realm Floating Around The Moonshaes = Awesome.
A great deal of "Living Greyhawk" players (there was a hell of a lot of them), as well as folks who have played back in the AD&D days will disagree.
EDIT: and for the record, it's not that I didn't like the FR lore. Some of it is great. It's just that dealing with the huge amount of it that was present in the setting was something I found to be kind of a hassle, and as such I never ran an FR game
No, Greyhawk has always sucked.
However the LG folks and some dudes who played before I did were attached to it.
Possibly even for more than nostalgic reasons.
Give it enough time, FR will eventually go the way of Greyhawk (as in: no longer supported).
And then people on forums will probably be saying the same things about FR.
Or as exarchs.
i got into the rpg scene towards the end of 2nd edition's lifespan. my friend's cousin was a (fantastic, in retrospect) DM who'd just gotten the dark sun box set. that motherfucker made us slit throats for months to get our metal armor and weapons, and then the next time we played we got hoodwinked and all our metal shit got stolen. we spent the better part of a year trying to get all our shit back, and it was probably the most fun i've ever had in an RPG
i think 2nd ed will always be my favorite d&d even though it's the clunkiest bullshit ever. back then they had the balls to try out interesting stuff, which resulted in some really incredible campaign settings. i can understand why they wouldn't bring dark sun back, but give me my fucking 4e planescape
hitting hot metal with hammers
also it bothers me that all the big game companies are simplifying shit so much. 40k did this too. am i alone in liking hideously complicated rulesets?
hitting hot metal with hammers
Want points of light in the darkness wilderness? Silver Marches, The Moonsea, Damara/Vaasa, Chult, Western Heartlands.
Heavy political intrigue in a well established system of governance? Waterdeep, Sembia, Amn, Calimshan.
War between massive nation-states? Unther/Mulhorand, Tethyr's north and east, Kingdom of Many Arrows.
Greek-myth influenced Jason and the argonauts-style high adventure? Chessenta.
Tolkien-esque elves, dwarves and humans vs. Orcs? The Silver Marches.
One of the things I liked about the setting was it was so complete and so full of life that there were literally dozens of options for adventures and origins. If you wanted to play a halfling, you weren't limited to one possible origin region if you wanted to come from a halfling community - you could pick from Luirien, Tethyr, The Sword Coast or any one of another handful of places where halflings are mentioned as having a sizeable community. It was a campaign with everything and the kitchen sink. And it was this massive variety that I loved to work with.
I find the 4ed campaign setting interesting and I can see it's value, but as a setting, I think of it as distinct from previous editions. To much of it is flavoured as points-of-light and epic adventure - that' cool, I can understand that, and I can see the appeal. But it's not as interesting to me as 3ed setting, so I just keep playing in 3ed FRCS. The words, the setting, and the flavour have no grounding in rules. I see no reason not to keep playing in the existing world with the new rules. I have no problem with the difference in magic, or adopting the new classes, or the fact that Elminster is still alive and well, taking a reduced amount of influence in the world, and the Gods are all pricks who often meddle on a worldwide scale but not in any meaningful way that influences a small group of heroes fighting back Hobgoblins in the Snowflake mountains.
In the case of 4e, it's more a matter of making the rules more accessible to new players, making the game quick and easy to learn, rather than having to pore over the same handful of pages over and over to make sure you're reading that rule right, and no wait you have to reference sourcebook X because it has a clause in it about how it applies in this situation.
Some people don't get that companies like WotC are a business, too. The more people they can get playing, the more money they can pull in.
hitting hot metal with hammers
hitting hot metal with hammers