Oh, you mean people are offended by the really tan white girl and guy in parkas? No doubt an obvious slight to the proud antarctican people and their ages old tradition of penguin sledding.
o_O
They're based on the Inuit.
I get this. Really. I do. But the Inuit usually aren't associated with the South Pole and penguin sliding. :P
Some could consider that to be offensive too you know.
Look, turning crazy make believe animated world into a live action movie takes some compromise. Why does the supposed race of these people really matter? As long as they act like the character who really cares?
And last time i checked the Japense can't fucking firebend, doesn't mean the fire nation isn't japan.
Oh, you mean people are offended by the really tan white girl and guy in parkas? No doubt an obvious slight to the proud antarctican people and their ages old tradition of penguin sledding.
o_O
They're based on the Inuit.
I get this. Really. I do. But the Inuit usually aren't associated with the South Pole and penguin sliding. :P
Some could consider that to be offensive too you know.
Look, turning crazy make believe animated world into a live action movie takes some compromise. Why does the supposed race of these people really matter? As long as they act like the character who really cares?
Well, it matters because a lot of people who are minorities think it matters. They would have liked to see positive role models in a fantasy action movie, which seems quite understandable since I can't think of a single non-white fantasy movie hero off the top of my head except
Oh, you mean people are offended by the really tan white girl and guy in parkas? No doubt an obvious slight to the proud antarctican people and their ages old tradition of penguin sledding.
o_O
They're based on the Inuit.
I get this. Really. I do. But the Inuit usually aren't associated with the South Pole and penguin sliding. :P
Some could consider that to be offensive too you know.
Look, turning crazy make believe animated world into a live action movie takes some compromise. Why does the supposed race of these people really matter? As long as they act like the character who really cares?
Well, it matters because a lot of people who are minorities think it matters. They would have liked to see positive role models in a fantasy action movie, which seems quite understandable since I can't think of a single non-white fantasy movie hero off the top of my head except
The kid from the Never Ending Story? Not the one who reads the book, the one who's in it.
Oh, you mean people are offended by the really tan white girl and guy in parkas? No doubt an obvious slight to the proud antarctican people and their ages old tradition of penguin sledding.
o_O
They're based on the Inuit.
I get this. Really. I do. But the Inuit usually aren't associated with the South Pole and penguin sliding. :P
Some could consider that to be offensive too you know.
Look, turning crazy make believe animated world into a live action movie takes some compromise. Why does the supposed race of these people really matter? As long as they act like the character who really cares?
And last time i checked the Japense can't fucking firebend, doesn't mean the fire nation isn't japan.
Don't you mean China? Or Mongolian?
Just because the cartoon version shares cultural aspects with a real life version, doesn't mean they share racial aspects.
The kid from the Never Ending Story? Not the one who reads the book, the one who's in it.
The one who's in the story isn't the hero. The white kid is. The kid in the story is the minority who fails to save the universe and thus the white kid intervenes and saves the day for everyone and also gets all the oil.
Oh, you mean people are offended by the really tan white girl and guy in parkas? No doubt an obvious slight to the proud antarctican people and their ages old tradition of penguin sledding.
o_O
They're based on the Inuit.
I get this. Really. I do. But the Inuit usually aren't associated with the South Pole and penguin sliding. :P
Some could consider that to be offensive too you know.
Look, turning crazy make believe animated world into a live action movie takes some compromise. Why does the supposed race of these people really matter? As long as they act like the character who really cares?
And last time i checked the Japense can't fucking firebend, doesn't mean the fire nation isn't japan.
Don't you mean China? Or Mongolian?
Just because the cartoon version shares cultural aspects with a real life version, doesn't mean they share racial aspects.
But Katara and Sokka and most Water Tribe people do. Specifically, they are noticeably darker than the [insert preferred pale-skinned ethnicity here] characters. The least they could have done if they were going to go with white actors for the Southern Water Tribe is get actors who at least look like they spend most of their days out of doors.
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
I have no idea what you guys are arguing about, everyone in Avatar was OBVIOUSLY German.
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DHSChase lizards.....bark at donkeys..Registered Userregular
I think we all know that was so off-topic as to get me infracted unless I include something else, so:
I've been watching the special features on the box sets, and just finished the audio commentaries from season 3 this morning.
On one of the discs, they have an interview with M. Night, and they seem really happy he's on the film and he seems really excited to be working on it.
And on the final disc, the audio commentary notes at the very end of Ember Island Players that the last thing they want is for people to say, "That was horrible...but at least the special effects were good."
I think we all know that was so off-topic as to get me infracted unless I include something else, so:
I've been watching the special features on the box sets, and just finished the audio commentaries from season 3 this morning.
On one of the discs, they have an interview with M. Night, and they seem really happy he's on the film and he seems really excited to be working on it.
And on the final disc, the audio commentary notes at the very end of Ember Island Players that the last thing they want is for people to say, "That was horrible...but at least the special effects were good."
Disassociating culture from race would be a bad, if not ridiculous idea. The two are tied together.
In what sense do you mean?
I think it would be wonderful if race eventually had no bearing whatsoever on culture. But I agree that it would be a mistake to ignore their real-world entanglements.
It would be great if we could just agree to disagree about the whole race thing and go back to talking about, you know, the actual show. But I know that's rarely how these threads work, so whatever.
I thought it would have been a lot more meaningful in the finale if
Azula had been unable to make lightning and Zuko actually could. The Azula/Zuko Agni Kai to me was supposed to represent that Zuko was finally better at Firebending than his sister, and there wouldn't have been a better symbol of that than if Zuko were to use lightning against Azula. Even if, say, he wasn't very good at it and couldn't kill her with it. The Lightning Redirection Checkov's Skill gets fired by Aang anyway.
It would be great if we could just agree to disagree about the whole race thing and go back to talking about, you know, the actual show. But I know that's rarely how these threads work, so whatever.
I thought it would have been a lot more meaningful in the finale if
Azula had been unable to make lightning and Zuko actually could. The Azula/Zuko Agni Kai to me was supposed to represent that Zuko was finally better at Firebending than his sister, and there wouldn't have been a better symbol of that than if Zuko were to use lightning against Azula. Even if, say, he wasn't very good at it and couldn't kill her with it. The Lightning Redirection Checkov's Skill gets fired by Aang anyway.
re: lighting, I think zuko understood that in order to master and use lightning, he would need his uncle's help and seeing as his past attempts have involved blowing himself up and he promised team aang that he would be more careful with his bending he probably didn't feel it was worth going down that path considering the dragons already helped him level up his firebending
re: the ending, I would've like to see instead of the 'removing bending abilities forever' deus ex machina that the lionturtle gave him, I woulda liked to see aang maybe learn some physical arts from mai (? the acrobat girl) and basically poked ozai's arms to oblivion. And upon jailing him have Sokka come up with a more permanent/physical solution to crimping off his bending abilities
It would be great if we could just agree to disagree about the whole race thing and go back to talking about, you know, the actual show. But I know that's rarely how these threads work, so whatever.
I thought it would have been a lot more meaningful in the finale if
Azula had been unable to make lightning and Zuko actually could. The Azula/Zuko Agni Kai to me was supposed to represent that Zuko was finally better at Firebending than his sister, and there wouldn't have been a better symbol of that than if Zuko were to use lightning against Azula. Even if, say, he wasn't very good at it and couldn't kill her with it. The Lightning Redirection Checkov's Skill gets fired by Aang anyway.
re: lighting, I think zuko understood that in order to master and use lightning, he would need his uncle's help and seeing as his past attempts have involved blowing himself up and he promised team aang that he would be more careful with his bending he probably didn't feel it was worth going down that path considering the dragons already helped him level up his firebending
re: the ending, I would've like to see instead of the 'removing bending abilities forever' deus ex machina that the lionturtle gave him, I woulda liked to see aang maybe learn some physical arts from mai (? the acrobat girl) and basically poked ozai's arms to oblivion. And upon jailing him have Sokka come up with a more permanent/physical solution to crimping off his bending abilities
I liked the soulbending more than the tailee solution. this is about bending not tailee-fu.
I would have liked the lionturtle and soulbending come up earlier though. everyone was pushed to the end to make it more like a compact movie. four pats (so 1+hour long movie length) and the conflict, solution and resolution were all contained within (avatars saying kill him, turtle coming up with other methods nad aang figuring it all out). so i get why they did that (to make the finale a contained movie) but i would rather they had it spread out throughout season 3.
-everyone agreeing that the cast selection is wrong, and therefore no longer need to discuss it
-everyone agreeing that the cast selection is a-ok, and therefore no longer need to discuss it
-everyone agreeing that the two different opinions are acceptable, and even though someone makes a repeated uninformed post, not reply to them to inform them of what's already been discussed
-everyone agreeing that the cast selection is wrong, and therefore no longer need to discuss it
-everyone agreeing that the cast selection is a-ok, and therefore no longer need to discuss it
-everyone agreeing that the two different opinions are acceptable, and even though someone makes a repeated uninformed post, not reply to them to inform them of what's already been discussed
:?:
Yes! I am happy that this person said this, and would hope that others would, also!
-everyone agreeing that the cast selection is wrong, and therefore no longer need to discuss it
-everyone agreeing that the cast selection is a-ok, and therefore no longer need to discuss it
-everyone agreeing that the two different opinions are acceptable, and even though someone makes a repeated uninformed post, not reply to them to inform them of what's already been discussed
:?:
Third. No one has to agree that either side is right, simply that both sides have their own personal opinion and ignore anyone like Glyph who pops in, stirs the pot, and wonders why BOTH sides hate him.
So is this just going to completely ruin EVERY Avatar thread, or are we 11 pages away from everyone acting like fucking adults?
Yes, because fucking adults don't dare ask questions about anything, they just accept everything given to them at face-value.
You want to bitch and moan that asian americans are/are not represented in cinema/have magic powers/can fly/whatever the fuck, fine. Make a fucking thread for it and let people interested in the show and potential movie have fun discussing the ACTUAL SHOW and ACTUAL MOVIE. Not speculation on shit that's passed and cannot be changed. Yes, it's good to be heard when you feel slighted, but this is not a case where anything will change on the subject at hand.
It can be changed IN THE FUTURE, yes, but this is a lost battle. Make a new topic if it's important to you. Then YOU get to discuss the state of asian-american actors in Hollywood, and WE get to discuss a cartoon about a kid who can control the elements with kung fu and its' movie.
Racism makes me angry too, but unfortunately the people talking about it in here aren't the ones responsible for it. I wish Avatar talk didn't = talk about race talk, but stupid ass Hollywood didn't learn from the god damned Legend of Earthsea, so here we are. Again.
Off-Topic Question (assuming the current topic has nothing to do with the show that this thread was actually supposed to be about):
So I loaned my friend the first few discs of Avatar last weekend. He's a huge anime fan and I've been wondering how it was going to play out making him watch something that isn't translated hilariously...
Of course the first thing he says is "They got their Japanese wrong. The Eel they were fighting in the water they called a Unagi. That means "Freshwater Eel" in Japanese, they meant to say Unago, which is an Ocean eel."
I went to say "Oops, I guess?" To him and then it hit me... Do we even know if the Avatar oceans are salt water? I can't remember a single place where this is addressed. Is it possible that its an entirely freshwater world? Would that even translate into a viable ecosystem?
Off-Topic Question (assuming the current topic has nothing to do with the show that this thread was actually supposed to be about):
So I loaned my friend the first few discs of Avatar last weekend. He's a huge anime fan and I've been wondering how it was going to play out making him watch something that isn't translated hilariously...
Of course the first thing he says is "They got their Japanese wrong. The Eel they were fighting in the water they called a Unagi. That means "Freshwater Eel" in Japanese, they meant to say Unago, which is an Ocean eel."
I went to say "Oops, I guess?" To him and then it hit me... Do we even know if the Avatar oceans are salt water? I can't remember a single place where this is addressed. Is it possible that its an entirely freshwater world? Would that even translate into a viable ecosystem?
Well. Earth's oceans were once less salty long ago, when amphibians first came onto land. The reason our bodies need salt—but less salt than is in ocean water—is we evolved from these amphibians and the oceans have gotten more salty.
So the particular salt tolerances of land-dwelling creatures seems somewhat incidental to the saltiness of the ocean. A more problematic issue is whether life could exist in a non-salty ocean, as salt seems essential to life processes ... but then there are plenty of freshwater organisms, just not the same diversity. And we haven't seen many actual water-dwelling organisms in Avatar. Add to the fact that:
1. Many of the organisms in Avatar are combos, possibly leftover from some kind of ancient genetic experiments that survived into this post-apocalyptic world of magic, implying that they could easily be engineered to any degree of salt tolerance desired;
2. Earthbenders have the ability to bend crystals, and hence, salt—so the advent of Earthbending could well have caused dramatic shifts in the salt concentration of the oceans, even unintentionally;
3. Freshwater ice freezes at slightly higher temperatures than saltwater ice. One would think that waterbenders would have an easier time bending and freezing freshwater than saltwater. But the northern waterbenders, as well as Katara, appear just at home on their sea ice as in freshwater—which implies that the sea ice is indeed fresh.
So is this just going to completely ruin EVERY Avatar thread, or are we 11 pages away from everyone acting like fucking adults?
Yes, because fucking adults don't dare ask questions about anything, they just accept everything given to them at face-value.
You want to bitch and moan that asian americans are/are not represented in cinema/have magic powers/can fly/whatever the fuck, fine. Make a fucking thread for it and let people interested in the show and potential movie have fun discussing the ACTUAL SHOW and ACTUAL MOVIE. Not speculation on shit that's passed and cannot be changed. Yes, it's good to be heard when you feel slighted, but this is not a case where anything will change on the subject at hand.
It can be changed IN THE FUTURE, yes, but this is a lost battle. Make a new topic if it's important to you. Then YOU get to discuss the state of asian-american actors in Hollywood, and WE get to discuss a cartoon about a kid who can control the elements with kung fu and its' movie.
So... discussing possible racist casting in the Avatar movie in the Avatar thread makes people juvenile for some reason. Good to know.
Off-Topic Question (assuming the current topic has nothing to do with the show that this thread was actually supposed to be about):
So I loaned my friend the first few discs of Avatar last weekend. He's a huge anime fan and I've been wondering how it was going to play out making him watch something that isn't translated hilariously...
Of course the first thing he says is "They got their Japanese wrong. The Eel they were fighting in the water they called a Unagi. That means "Freshwater Eel" in Japanese, they meant to say Unago, which is an Ocean eel."
I went to say "Oops, I guess?" To him and then it hit me... Do we even know if the Avatar oceans are salt water? I can't remember a single place where this is addressed. Is it possible that its an entirely freshwater world? Would that even translate into a viable ecosystem?
Well. Earth's oceans were once less salty long ago, when amphibians first came onto land. The reason our bodies need salt—but less salt than is in ocean water—is we evolved from these amphibians and the oceans have gotten more salty.
So the particular salt tolerances of land-dwelling creatures seems somewhat incidental to the saltiness of the ocean. A more problematic issue is whether life could exist in a non-salty ocean, as salt seems essential to life processes ... but then there are plenty of freshwater organisms, just not the same diversity. And we haven't seen many actual water-dwelling organisms in Avatar. Add to the fact that:
1. Many of the organisms in Avatar are combos, possibly leftover from some kind of ancient genetic experiments that survived into this post-apocalyptic world of magic, implying that they could easily be engineered to any degree of salt tolerance desired;
2. Earthbenders have the ability to bend crystals, and hence, salt—so the advent of Earthbending could well have caused dramatic shifts in the salt concentration of the oceans, even unintentionally;
3. Freshwater ice freezes at slightly higher temperatures than saltwater ice. One would think that waterbenders would have an easier time bending and freezing freshwater than saltwater. But the northern waterbenders, as well as Katara, appear just at home on their sea ice as in freshwater—which implies that the sea ice is indeed fresh.
4. Magic lionturtles did it.
Some thoughts...
1. I somehow just don't get "post-apocalyptic" from Avatar. I do from a lot of shows/books but not Avatar.
2. Excellent point.
3. Isn't freezing water technically a form of firebending? Whats with that?
4. Obviously Socialist lionturtles out to deprive the people of salty goodness.
Off-Topic Question (assuming the current topic has nothing to do with the show that this thread was actually supposed to be about):
So I loaned my friend the first few discs of Avatar last weekend. He's a huge anime fan and I've been wondering how it was going to play out making him watch something that isn't translated hilariously...
Of course the first thing he says is "They got their Japanese wrong. The Eel they were fighting in the water they called a Unagi. That means "Freshwater Eel" in Japanese, they meant to say Unago, which is an Ocean eel."
I went to say "Oops, I guess?" To him and then it hit me... Do we even know if the Avatar oceans are salt water? I can't remember a single place where this is addressed. Is it possible that its an entirely freshwater world? Would that even translate into a viable ecosystem?
Tell your friend he is a retarded weeaboo. These are not the things you should be paying attention to in this show.
Though I was proud of myself for knowing the panda spirits name was the chinese words for black and white stuck together. I'd just done my color lessons in Rosetta Stone the day before.
Off-Topic Question (assuming the current topic has nothing to do with the show that this thread was actually supposed to be about):
So I loaned my friend the first few discs of Avatar last weekend. He's a huge anime fan and I've been wondering how it was going to play out making him watch something that isn't translated hilariously...
Of course the first thing he says is "They got their Japanese wrong. The Eel they were fighting in the water they called a Unagi. That means "Freshwater Eel" in Japanese, they meant to say Unago, which is an Ocean eel."
I went to say "Oops, I guess?" To him and then it hit me... Do we even know if the Avatar oceans are salt water? I can't remember a single place where this is addressed. Is it possible that its an entirely freshwater world? Would that even translate into a viable ecosystem?
Tell your friend he is a retarded weeaboo. These are not the things you should be paying attention to in this show.
Though I was proud of myself for knowing the panda spirits name was the chinese words for black and white stuck together. I'd just done my color lessons in Rosetta Stone the day before.
Yeah, he's a really cool guy usually. Great college friend, saved my life a couple times... He's just a huge fucking douche when it comes to stuff like this.
They NAMED the monster Unagi. So technically it can be Unagi the unago. But it's probably Unagi the whalesnake.
Did he mention that Momo is actually not a peach and that he should be called winged-lemur, and appa should be called flying bison, and Aang should be called human?
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
3. Isn't freezing water technically a form of firebending? Whats with that?
Technically, both forms of bending can do it. A firebender does it by moving the heat out of the water, or something like that. A waterbender can just do it, probably more as a matter of their bending ability. I'm pretty sure an airbender could probably bend water if they created a strong enough "cold front" of wind, too.
With regards to the evolution debate: it is patently obvious that the hybridization of mammals is indicative of a neo-Cambrian, convergent, post-apocalyptic event which caused massive amounts of gamma rays and neutrino particles to bombard the planet, forcing various organism to combine into larger, more powerful forms, or be destroyed.
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And last time i checked the Japense can't fucking firebend, doesn't mean the fire nation isn't japan.
The kid from the Never Ending Story? Not the one who reads the book, the one who's in it.
Don't you mean China? Or Mongolian?
Just because the cartoon version shares cultural aspects with a real life version, doesn't mean they share racial aspects.
Actually, looked it up. Kid who played Atreyu had some Native American. Diluted, but a bit.
But Katara and Sokka and most Water Tribe people do. Specifically, they are noticeably darker than the [insert preferred pale-skinned ethnicity here] characters. The least they could have done if they were going to go with white actors for the Southern Water Tribe is get actors who at least look like they spend most of their days out of doors.
Like Jesus!
I think we all know that was so off-topic as to get me infracted unless I include something else, so:
I've been watching the special features on the box sets, and just finished the audio commentaries from season 3 this morning.
On one of the discs, they have an interview with M. Night, and they seem really happy he's on the film and he seems really excited to be working on it.
And on the final disc, the audio commentary notes at the very end of Ember Island Players that the last thing they want is for people to say, "That was horrible...but at least the special effects were good."
I think they're going to be disappointed!
I think it would be wonderful if race eventually had no bearing whatsoever on culture. But I agree that it would be a mistake to ignore their real-world entanglements.
Rutger Hauer could easily play a Masai warrior, ur bein dum
I thought it would have been a lot more meaningful in the finale if
re: the ending, I would've like to see instead of the 'removing bending abilities forever' deus ex machina that the lionturtle gave him, I woulda liked to see aang maybe learn some physical arts from mai (? the acrobat girl) and basically poked ozai's arms to oblivion. And upon jailing him have Sokka come up with a more permanent/physical solution to crimping off his bending abilities
I would have liked the lionturtle and soulbending come up earlier though. everyone was pushed to the end to make it more like a compact movie. four pats (so 1+hour long movie length) and the conflict, solution and resolution were all contained within (avatars saying kill him, turtle coming up with other methods nad aang figuring it all out). so i get why they did that (to make the finale a contained movie) but i would rather they had it spread out throughout season 3.
Yes, because fucking adults don't dare ask questions about anything, they just accept everything given to them at face-value.
I don't know about you, but when I'm lucky enough to be getting sex, I'm probably not questioning it.
-everyone agreeing that the cast selection is wrong, and therefore no longer need to discuss it
-everyone agreeing that the cast selection is a-ok, and therefore no longer need to discuss it
-everyone agreeing that the two different opinions are acceptable, and even though someone makes a repeated uninformed post, not reply to them to inform them of what's already been discussed
:?:
Yes! I am happy that this person said this, and would hope that others would, also!
It can be changed IN THE FUTURE, yes, but this is a lost battle. Make a new topic if it's important to you. Then YOU get to discuss the state of asian-american actors in Hollywood, and WE get to discuss a cartoon about a kid who can control the elements with kung fu and its' movie.
oh god. this didn't load at work so i just saw it. amazing
So I loaned my friend the first few discs of Avatar last weekend. He's a huge anime fan and I've been wondering how it was going to play out making him watch something that isn't translated hilariously...
Of course the first thing he says is "They got their Japanese wrong. The Eel they were fighting in the water they called a Unagi. That means "Freshwater Eel" in Japanese, they meant to say Unago, which is an Ocean eel."
I went to say "Oops, I guess?" To him and then it hit me... Do we even know if the Avatar oceans are salt water? I can't remember a single place where this is addressed. Is it possible that its an entirely freshwater world? Would that even translate into a viable ecosystem?
So the particular salt tolerances of land-dwelling creatures seems somewhat incidental to the saltiness of the ocean. A more problematic issue is whether life could exist in a non-salty ocean, as salt seems essential to life processes ... but then there are plenty of freshwater organisms, just not the same diversity. And we haven't seen many actual water-dwelling organisms in Avatar. Add to the fact that:
1. Many of the organisms in Avatar are combos, possibly leftover from some kind of ancient genetic experiments that survived into this post-apocalyptic world of magic, implying that they could easily be engineered to any degree of salt tolerance desired;
2. Earthbenders have the ability to bend crystals, and hence, salt—so the advent of Earthbending could well have caused dramatic shifts in the salt concentration of the oceans, even unintentionally;
3. Freshwater ice freezes at slightly higher temperatures than saltwater ice. One would think that waterbenders would have an easier time bending and freezing freshwater than saltwater. But the northern waterbenders, as well as Katara, appear just at home on their sea ice as in freshwater—which implies that the sea ice is indeed fresh.
4. Magic lionturtles did it.
So... discussing possible racist casting in the Avatar movie in the Avatar thread makes people juvenile for some reason. Good to know.
Some thoughts...
1. I somehow just don't get "post-apocalyptic" from Avatar. I do from a lot of shows/books but not Avatar.
2. Excellent point.
3. Isn't freezing water technically a form of firebending? Whats with that?
4. Obviously Socialist lionturtles out to deprive the people of salty goodness.
Though I was proud of myself for knowing the panda spirits name was the chinese words for black and white stuck together. I'd just done my color lessons in Rosetta Stone the day before.
Yeah, he's a really cool guy usually. Great college friend, saved my life a couple times... He's just a huge fucking douche when it comes to stuff like this.
Did he mention that Momo is actually not a peach and that he should be called winged-lemur, and appa should be called flying bison, and Aang should be called human?
Technically, both forms of bending can do it. A firebender does it by moving the heat out of the water, or something like that. A waterbender can just do it, probably more as a matter of their bending ability. I'm pretty sure an airbender could probably bend water if they created a strong enough "cold front" of wind, too.
With regards to the evolution debate: it is patently obvious that the hybridization of mammals is indicative of a neo-Cambrian, convergent, post-apocalyptic event which caused massive amounts of gamma rays and neutrino particles to bombard the planet, forcing various organism to combine into larger, more powerful forms, or be destroyed.