Oh shoot, I just made a thread about fitness kind of, I guess I should've asked here in the first place... didn't cross my mind.
So I'm significantly overweight(5'11", 240 pounds. It all happened last year, too, going from 187, due to an incredibly stressful year and resultant scotch increase), and I'm right now trying to lose the weight as fast as I (safely) can. I've cut myself down to max of 1500 calories, pretty much just by slashing things I didn't need that I was eating(two patties for a burger instead of one, two chicken breasts instead of one. 4 Hot dogs with bun, no caloric drinks, etc.), and some days now I have to pig out at dinner to hit an intake of 1200 or above, and other than right before I eat, I'm not hungry during the day at all, nor am I feeling anything negative from a diet. My average intake is 1200-1400 calories per day. I also am working out twice a day for an hour, burning what's a quickly rising average of 700-750 calories each run. So basically, on my most eating and least exercising day, I'm taking in 1400 Calories and burning just through exercise 1400. On the other end of the spectrum are 1000 calorie intake with 1500 burned.
Obviously I should be eating less than I "burn" including Basal Metabolic Rate to lose weight, but am I going to far with the diet+workouts per day? Right now I'm feeling fine, sleeping well, and last week I lost 10 pounds. Also I'm drinking 4-5 liters of water per day.
So basically, is it a problem if before my resting calorie loss is taken into consideration my calories per day are zero or negative, or is this just going to keep resulting in quick weight loss?
Oh shoot, I just made a thread about fitness kind of, I guess I should've asked here in the first place... didn't cross my mind.
So I'm significantly overweight(5'11", 240 pounds. It all happened last year, too, going from 187, due to an incredibly stressful year and resultant scotch increase), and I'm right now trying to lose the weight as fast as I (safely) can. I've cut myself down to max of 1500 calories, pretty much just by slashing things I didn't need that I was eating(two patties for a burger instead of one, two chicken breasts instead of one. 4 Hot dogs with bun, no caloric drinks, etc.), and some days now I have to pig out at dinner to hit an intake of 1200 or above, and other than right before I eat, I'm not hungry during the day at all, nor am I feeling anything negative from a diet. My average intake is 1200-1400 calories per day. I also am working out twice a day for an hour, burning what's a quickly rising average of 700-750 calories each run. So basically, on my most eating and least exercising day, I'm taking in 1400 Calories and burning just through exercise 1400. On the other end of the spectrum are 1000 calorie intake with 1500 burned.
Obviously I should be eating less than I "burn" including Basal Metabolic Rate to lose weight, but am I going to far with the diet+workouts per day? Right now I'm feeling fine, sleeping well, and last week I lost 10 pounds. Also I'm drinking 4-5 liters of water per day.
So basically, is it a problem if before my resting calorie loss is taken into consideration my calories per day are zero or negative, or is this just going to keep resulting in quick weight loss?
1400 calories is pretty damn low for a dude your size. You are going to fuck up your metabolism and lose a lot of muscle. Eat more and lift weights and you can still lose weight while hanging on to the muscle you have and not putting yourself in starvation mode.
Wouldn't I be... I don't know, feeling hungry if I wasn't getting enough food though? My resting burn from everything I've looked up is still only about 2100, so I'm only 700 short...
Also I've got a gut, but I'm also relatively toned outside of that, and I'm making sure I still do some anaerobic exercise as well as aerobic.
I haven't been too concerned about my intake just because I guess I assumed(maybe wrongly) that I'd be feeling something if I wasn't getting enough food. Hell right now I'm sleeping better and feeling pretty great.
It's very possible you're not feeling hungry because your body is now used to only eating a certain amount each day. There's a lot of diet info on this thread, but to sum it up:
You need to eat more, quite a bit more. Make sure it's all good, healthy food and you won't have any problems.
Honestly, you should be lifting weights instead of running. Running is great and all, but you'll see more noticeable results in weight and muscle by lifting. Start lifting and add running to your in between days, if you want to. Right now, your body isn't getting enough nutrients and will start eating away at your muscle to compensate.
Eat six (smaller) meals throughout the day, keep your calorie intake up around 2400 or 2500 and you'll notice improvements faster.
2400-2500 was what I was eating when I gained 60 pounds in 8 months, that can't be right. The OP describes it as what I'd want if I was bulking up.
Also, I wasn't hungry when I started cutting my calorie intake either. I'm still eating the same foods and balances I used to, and I'm not even really dieting at all, just cut out Alcohol, fatty foods, and doubling on portions. I know I want to keep my calorie intake above levels where I'm starving myself, but 2500 can't be right. I mean the way I cut down on my calorie intake was to say "Do I really need two patties? Nope!", stopped eating out, cut all booze, and that was pretty much it. I was cruising around 2000 before and not losing anything, though granted not exercising every day either.
The OP and every fitness guide I have read ever also say cardio is the way to go. I haven't seen anywhere that weight lifting should be primary to cardio for weight loss.
I'm less concerned about my calorie intake and more concerned if burning off more than it is a problem.
Like was said, you're going to mess up your metabolism and eat away at your muscle. Really, 1400 is pretty damn low if you're exercising.
My suggestion would be to quit counting calories and start eating more, healthy foods. Your idea of eating things in moderation is excellent...but don't be afraid to fill up on good food too.
That's the thing though... the only food I cut was the unhealthy stuff. But I mean, eggs for breakfast, large Chicken salad for lunch, Snack of a few carrots or so, maybe splurging with a burger, side salad, and some fruit for dinner, a few glasses of iced tea... that's coming in under 1,000. Even adding another meal or two of the same size I'm still coming in at around 1400-1500. I haven't felt at all like I'm on a diet or like I've cut anything big, I just cut portion sizes down to reasonable amounts and 1400 is still the high average of what I eat.
I mean, I don't think I've cut any essential nutrients, plus I take multivitamins... Maybe I'm missing something, but all I did was cut the stupid and my calories jumped down to here. Again, the biggest thing I cut was a doubling of things like hamburgers or chicken, buns/doubling of hot dogs, all booze, most caloric drinks, and I'd have to try to get above 1500 with all of that.
I guess I can grab some whole grain bread tomorrow with breakfast, start eating an evening meal, it's just... I don't understand how eating full, filling meals in a day while I'm not getting hungry until meal time is not enough.
The nutrition facts listed on the packaging? If the serving size is different than just one discrete unit of whatever I'm having than I measure how much I'm having and take the calories listed. I mean... that could be wrong but I'm not really sure of other ways to do it.
Khavall on
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
Look, how much weight are you actually loosing? Are you feeling good? Do you feel excessively tired like you don't have the energy to do work? Are you calories a healthy mix of Protein, carbs and fats?
If you are loosing weight at a steady and healthy pace chances are you are just mis-measuring your calories and I would say stick with what you are doing.
No but when you first begin to lose weight it melts off then slows down gradually. The body really knows what bf % it wants to be around it just needs the caloric deficit to get there. After you go down a ton of weight you realize how easy it is, and to sustain the fatness you were eating enough excess energy to send the shuttle into orbit.
I think maybe you're not counting EVERYTHING that goes on to your food. Do you use a bun for your burger? 100-180 calories alone in the bun. Do you put on tomato slices? Mayonnaise? Anything at all? I think even Iceberg lettuce has calories (slight). In the case of eating out, the nutrition info on fast food never includes toppings like cheese, Mayo, Ketchup. Simply the meat component and bun.
Do you use ranch dressing with the carrots? Peanut butter? Or just straight carrots? Where are you getting your fruit nutrition info? Those have calories too. What do you put on the side salad? Dressings are killer here. Any oil, milk or cheese on your eggs in the morning? That counts.
Calories aren't bad, it's just the bad foods have calories with nothing to offset them with. As you can see, calorie counting becomes a headache quickly, and it's not even the best road for healthy weight loss.
Not feeling hungry does not mean everything is great. If appetite were a measure for success, people would never get fat because they would become full and satisfied before gorging themselves. It goes both ways. The OP says clearly that sometimes you'll have to force yourself to eat good foods, for more meals in the beginning, even if you're not hungry.
However, if closer scrutiny reveals that you're hitting a healthy amount of calories (2000 at least), then the lack of hunger is OK. It's not a great thing either, it just indicates that your body has accepted the activity level and intake of your routine. Not good, not bad. What's important is you get the carbs, protein, and fat your body needs. Hunger is only ever a roadblock in dieting. The water intake alone can explain that away. [Keep drinking the water though - it's a great thing!]
You don't need to count calories when you're that fat. 90 percent of people get basically nothing out of counting calories. Just eat good food and exercise.
If he thinks he's eating a 'large chicken salad' and a burger, along with breakfast and all his snacks, for under 1000 calories? Yeah, I'd say that's a safe bet. No freaking way, ESPECIALLY if he's ordering that large salad somewhere.
Are you losing weight? And if so, at what rate? Most likely you're just ballparking it and doing fine. At least that's my hunch. Even when I'm 'counting calories' I'm not really counting calories.
[Edit] Whoah, 10 lbs/wk? Unless this is like the first week and a TON of that was due to less water retention or something, that's messed up. You'd have to run a caloric deficit of 35,000 calories to hit that. Even with a maintenance rate of 4,000 calories a day and eating literally nothing you couldn't lose 10lbs of fat in a week.
750 calories is a pretty ass-kicking workout. Are the "calories burned" tally coming from an elliptical or stepper? If so I'd take them with a grain of salt unless you're using proper form. Here's a video showing different forms. She's clearly hamming it up a little in the 2nd video. But you can see in the first video her shoulders and hips define a largely static plane whereas in the 2nd she's all over the place. Most elliptical operators I see are closer to the 2nd form.
The workout you get using the 1st form is much higher intensity eventhough the machine may indicate equivalent calories burned using either form since it cannot tell if you're bouncing or using gravity to assist on the stride.
Yeah, it's from an elliptical, and I'm pretty much using the 1st form. It normally gives me about 5 miles in the hour, sometimes it takes me around 55 minutes to get to 750. When I started I was pulling about 600, but since I do it twice a day it's gotten easier to push harder pretty quickly.
Also Tube, I'm more counting just to keep track more than to limit myself. I think unless I brought back a lot of the poor eating I was doing before I decided to stop being a fat load it'd be pretty tough to get myself up to 2000 regardless of counting.
Anyways, last week was the first week, and I'm going back to the recruiter on monday, so we'll see what my real weight loss per week without dropping all the water is.
I don't think I've ever burned 750 calories at a time, other than the long-distance running that I used to do. If you aren't running (or walking) for 7+ miles, you are not burning that many calories. The calorie readouts on any exercise machine are complete bullshit.
I think your numbers are way, way off. Both your initial caloric intake assumptions when you started gaining weight, and your intake numbers now. But it doesn't matter. Counting calories is rarely rewarding other than as a quick baseline. Eat sensibly, eat enough to jumpstart your metabolism, and exercise. The weight WILL come off. I'm consuming around 2500 calories a day right now, and it is much more than I used to take in. But I eat better and use it. I've lost 30 pounds this year, went from a 38 to a 34 in the waist. It just takes time.
EDIT: Yeah, the 10 pounds thing makes sense if it was your first week. I lost 8 pounds or so the first week, then markedly diminishing returns past that.
It could also be a time of day thing. I weighed in in the evening for the first time at 172, and two days later in the morning I was 166. No way did I lose 6 lbs in 2 days - make sure you weigh in at the same point during your routine.
It could also be a time of day thing. I weighed in in the evening for the first time at 172, and two days later in the morning I was 166. No way did I lose 6 lbs in 2 days - make sure you weigh in at the same point during your routine.
Khavall, as someone who has gone through basically the same thing as you, I would recommend the following:
a) don't focus as much on calories, but the types of calories you're consuming. By this I mean no simple carbs (sugars, white bread, croutons, white pasta/rice, etc). Also, pay attention to the types of fat you consume, and make sure a lot of your calories come from proteins. There's much more detail in this thread about that. Basically what I'm saying is that, yeah, someone can only eat 1500 calories in a day, but if it's all hot dogs and Mt. Dew, most of those calories will get converted to fat. It's not a simple in->out formula.
b) don't focus on weight. I'd even recommend not weighing yourself very often (maybe once a month). The more you weigh, the more your weight will fluctuate. I've gone through periods of losing 30 pounds in a month (when I started out), to putting on 2 pounds in a month while dropping 4 inches in my waist (when I started lifting weights). If you want something to focus on, start taking measurements across your waist, gut, and chest.
c) If you're going from completely inactive to very active (like I did) you probably won't have a whole lot of muscle to lose, but it's very important to do some type of resistance training. It's pretty common for people who have lost massive amounts of weight purely through diet (lap band, stomach staples, etc) to get various health complications from losing muscle as well (hernias, etc). Weight lifting is great for this, because not only can you be sure not to lose muscle, you have an accurate gauge of your strength (ensuring you're not wasting away).
Mephistopheles on
"Friends are just enemies in reverse."
- Gary Busey A Glass, Darkly
It could also be a time of day thing. I weighed in in the evening for the first time at 172, and two days later in the morning I was 166. No way did I lose 6 lbs in 2 days - make sure you weigh in at the same point during your routine.
That's pretty much what I did with my diet, I didn't cut out any of the healthy stuff I was eating, like I said, I just cut out the empty calories, the pasta, white bread, booze, and focused on things like chicken, whole grain bread... croutons and if I eat a (93/7 lean) burger I have a bun and that's about all the simple carbs I go with. Again, I'm not really counting calories to limit, just to have a record of it. With the weighing thing, I'm trying not to weigh myself, but since I'm mostly losing the weight because I'm joining the navy as a musician(assuming I don't royally fuck up the audition... and can make the weight) right now I'm checking in with my recruiter weekly with a weight check, mostly so he can see progression and resolve. And.. I wasn't entirely inactive before, I was running maybe 30 minutes a day 3-5 days a week, plus sporadic weight lifting.
My goal is to get down to 210 in the short-ish term, after which I'm planning to cut down to one hour of running a day. Then once I reach 190 or so I'll start considering lossening up some of the restrictions, let myself have a drink every now and then, as long as I don't start gaining again. The biggest thing is once classes start again, I get super-busy and don't have enough time to do like, anything.
-Whats your thoughts on jump rope as cardio instead of running? I've been doing it lately, and it seems good to me. Been sweating like a mother. Plus I'm hoping it gives me more bounce in my step.
I'm 6'3" , 24 years old and 249lb. I was 260lb a few weeks ago. I would definitely classify myself as overweight. I read the OP, and he said to eat 2000+ calories (most likely more for me), but do I really have to? I mean, theres so much fat on me, isn't that enough supply for my body? I understand the eat 5 times a day thing, but eating 2500 cal a day?
Jump rope is great, as long as your knees and ankles are fine with the weight you're carrying. It's relatively easy to control the intensity of the workout and tends to be a higher intensity than most other forms of cardio.
Start by eating heathily and well. Don't worry about counting calories. Try to make sure that you're eating consistent amounts, especially on days you work out.
Keep reading and researching; the greatest benefit comes from understanding nutrition and how your body works/reacts to food and exercise.
I've been doing a Starting Strength program (the Practical Programming one from the wiki because I'm a pansy and didn't want to learn to power clean) and I've been seeing great results. However, some friends have suggested I switch to a program focusing on hypertrophy rather than strength, then switch back to the strength program once I've gained some muscle to work with. They say I would see faster gains in both strength and mass gain that way.
My goals are both strength and weight gain, and I've gotten both on the current program. All my lifts have significantly increased and I've gone from 120 lbs to 145 lbs since February-ish (though I started on Tube's faggot plan, which was also great, but I slacked and didn't do it consistently). Now, my guess is that I'll see great gains on just about any decent plan, but would I possibly see even better results overall by switching to a program geared towards hypertrophy rather than strength temporarily?
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
Well your first weigh in is always going to be a lot Khavall.
Stick with it and weigh yourself this week, chances are and I am not going to discourage you, you will not lose that much as the majority of that was water weight due to the fact that you are no longer eating as much salt your body isn't holding as much water.
I've been doing a Starting Strength program (the Practical Programming one from the wiki because I'm a pansy and didn't want to learn to power clean) and I've been seeing great results. However, some friends have suggested I switch to a program focusing on hypertrophy rather than strength, then switch back to the strength program once I've gained some muscle to work with. They say I would see faster gains in both strength and mass gain that way.
My goals are both strength and weight gain, and I've gotten both on the current program. All my lifts have significantly increased and I've gone from 120 lbs to 145 lbs since February-ish (though I started on Tube's faggot plan, which was also great, but I slacked and didn't do it consistently). Now, my guess is that I'll see great gains on just about any decent plan, but would I possibly see even better results overall by switching to a program geared towards hypertrophy rather than strength temporarily?
Conventional wisdom says you should look to develop a decent strength base before you move to a mass-building program.
"Gaining muscle to work with" isn't how it works. While your strength levels will develop on a hypertrophy routine, they will not do so as fast as with a strength orientated one.
Similarly a strength program will give you mass gains (when you're eating enough, which is my main problem), but not as fast as with a hypertrophy program.
For a beginner, this makes very little difference, of course. You're going to see significant development in strength and size within the first six months of lifting however you go about it. Although personally I'd advocate a strength routine until you have a 1.5xbw squat & deadlift, and a 1.25xbw bench press.
Not that Sunday_Assassin needs my approval, but I'd agree with him.
From a personal perspective, I see/hear (and am sometimes personally guilty of) medium to advanced lifters applying their current techniques and knowledge to someone else's situation without accounting for how the body reacts differently when starting a lifting regime.
Also, everyone is different and over time you'll come closer to figuring out exactly what works for you and what you want. My goals have changed drastically since the first six months, year that I started lifting, as has my approach and knowledge of the subject. Still learning.
In the first few months of lifting, you're actually doing more to develop your central nervous system's ability to produce force than strengthening the muscles themselves.
Think of how much your bench press increased between your first and second session. While mostly an issue of technique, admittedly, you're also learning what your body is capable of pushing. During the beginner stages you're constantly testing and pushing past pre-established limits that are mental as well as physical. And short, heavy sets are the best way to do this, as fatigue is going to limit your performance more than any other factor.
Move onto a hypertrophy routine too soon and you could be trying to stimulate growth with a load that is far less than what you are capable of, which is really not ideal.
Actually the whole nervous system thing is really interesting. Due to the way we've evolved for fine motor control, the current operating theory is we have many more motor neurons hooked into our muscle fibres than apes. This means that for every nerve that activates, we produce less force (activate less muscle).
So during the initial phases of a lifting program, you are learning to activate more nerves leading into your muscles at the same time. The articles I read also posit that there is a normal operational 'limit' to the number of motor neurons that will fire at any one time, which is why we appear to be weaker than chimpanzees even accounting for similar muscle mass (although there is the matter of leverage being different in the skeletal muscle positioning of apes).
It is possible for those normal operational limits to be bypassed, but not consciously. The two examples that are easily recognisable are the strength of involuntary muscle contractions during an electric shock (an external force activating those motor neurons all at once) and what happens during times of extreme stress and adrenaline overload (the mum-lifting-a-car effect).
In the first few months of lifting, you're actually doing more to develop your central nervous system's ability to produce force than strengthening the muscles themselves.
Think of how much your bench press increased between your first and second session. While mostly an issue of technique, admittedly, you're also learning what your body is capable of pushing. During the beginner stages you're constantly testing and pushing past pre-established limits that are mental as well as physical. And short, heavy sets are the best way to do this, as fatigue is going to limit your performance more than any other factor.
Move onto a hypertrophy routine too soon and you could be trying to stimulate growth with a load that is far less than what you are capable of, which is really not ideal.
in theory
Also go with a friend, I remember a bar sitting on my chest a few too many times in that situation
It is possible for those normal operational limits to be bypassed, but not consciously. The two examples that are easily recognisable are the strength of involuntary muscle contractions during an electric shock (an external force activating those motor neurons all at once) and what happens during times of extreme stress and adrenaline overload (the mum-lifting-a-car effect).
It is kind of weird to talk about, but I suffer from epilepsy, and whenever I suffer a seizure, the next day it feels like I have had the most intense workout of my life. Seriously, I can only imagine what my body is doing, and I have no doubt it's not good for me, but I am exhausted for days. I can imagine what you're talking about with the 'electric shock' effect. It fucking hurts.
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I was bad at it
also back then i could do pullups because i was light
15 pushups in 2 minutes... that seems... sad
1400 calories is pretty damn low for a dude your size. You are going to fuck up your metabolism and lose a lot of muscle. Eat more and lift weights and you can still lose weight while hanging on to the muscle you have and not putting yourself in starvation mode.
Also I've got a gut, but I'm also relatively toned outside of that, and I'm making sure I still do some anaerobic exercise as well as aerobic.
I haven't been too concerned about my intake just because I guess I assumed(maybe wrongly) that I'd be feeling something if I wasn't getting enough food. Hell right now I'm sleeping better and feeling pretty great.
You need to eat more, quite a bit more. Make sure it's all good, healthy food and you won't have any problems.
Honestly, you should be lifting weights instead of running. Running is great and all, but you'll see more noticeable results in weight and muscle by lifting. Start lifting and add running to your in between days, if you want to. Right now, your body isn't getting enough nutrients and will start eating away at your muscle to compensate.
Eat six (smaller) meals throughout the day, keep your calorie intake up around 2400 or 2500 and you'll notice improvements faster.
Also, I wasn't hungry when I started cutting my calorie intake either. I'm still eating the same foods and balances I used to, and I'm not even really dieting at all, just cut out Alcohol, fatty foods, and doubling on portions. I know I want to keep my calorie intake above levels where I'm starving myself, but 2500 can't be right. I mean the way I cut down on my calorie intake was to say "Do I really need two patties? Nope!", stopped eating out, cut all booze, and that was pretty much it. I was cruising around 2000 before and not losing anything, though granted not exercising every day either.
The OP and every fitness guide I have read ever also say cardio is the way to go. I haven't seen anywhere that weight lifting should be primary to cardio for weight loss.
I'm less concerned about my calorie intake and more concerned if burning off more than it is a problem.
My suggestion would be to quit counting calories and start eating more, healthy foods. Your idea of eating things in moderation is excellent...but don't be afraid to fill up on good food too.
I mean, I don't think I've cut any essential nutrients, plus I take multivitamins... Maybe I'm missing something, but all I did was cut the stupid and my calories jumped down to here. Again, the biggest thing I cut was a doubling of things like hamburgers or chicken, buns/doubling of hot dogs, all booze, most caloric drinks, and I'd have to try to get above 1500 with all of that.
I guess I can grab some whole grain bread tomorrow with breakfast, start eating an evening meal, it's just... I don't understand how eating full, filling meals in a day while I'm not getting hungry until meal time is not enough.
What are you using to calculate the calories in your meals?
If you are loosing weight at a steady and healthy pace chances are you are just mis-measuring your calories and I would say stick with what you are doing.
Satans..... hints.....
I would look at eating more so you will be loosing 4-5 pounds a week.
Satans..... hints.....
Do you use ranch dressing with the carrots? Peanut butter? Or just straight carrots? Where are you getting your fruit nutrition info? Those have calories too. What do you put on the side salad? Dressings are killer here. Any oil, milk or cheese on your eggs in the morning? That counts.
Calories aren't bad, it's just the bad foods have calories with nothing to offset them with. As you can see, calorie counting becomes a headache quickly, and it's not even the best road for healthy weight loss.
Not feeling hungry does not mean everything is great. If appetite were a measure for success, people would never get fat because they would become full and satisfied before gorging themselves. It goes both ways. The OP says clearly that sometimes you'll have to force yourself to eat good foods, for more meals in the beginning, even if you're not hungry.
However, if closer scrutiny reveals that you're hitting a healthy amount of calories (2000 at least), then the lack of hunger is OK. It's not a great thing either, it just indicates that your body has accepted the activity level and intake of your routine. Not good, not bad. What's important is you get the carbs, protein, and fat your body needs. Hunger is only ever a roadblock in dieting. The water intake alone can explain that away. [Keep drinking the water though - it's a great thing!]
If he thinks he's eating a 'large chicken salad' and a burger, along with breakfast and all his snacks, for under 1000 calories? Yeah, I'd say that's a safe bet. No freaking way, ESPECIALLY if he's ordering that large salad somewhere.
Are you losing weight? And if so, at what rate? Most likely you're just ballparking it and doing fine. At least that's my hunch. Even when I'm 'counting calories' I'm not really counting calories.
[Edit] Whoah, 10 lbs/wk? Unless this is like the first week and a TON of that was due to less water retention or something, that's messed up. You'd have to run a caloric deficit of 35,000 calories to hit that. Even with a maintenance rate of 4,000 calories a day and eating literally nothing you couldn't lose 10lbs of fat in a week.
Maybe I'm still doing it wrong though.
The workout you get using the 1st form is much higher intensity eventhough the machine may indicate equivalent calories burned using either form since it cannot tell if you're bouncing or using gravity to assist on the stride.
Also Tube, I'm more counting just to keep track more than to limit myself. I think unless I brought back a lot of the poor eating I was doing before I decided to stop being a fat load it'd be pretty tough to get myself up to 2000 regardless of counting.
Anyways, last week was the first week, and I'm going back to the recruiter on monday, so we'll see what my real weight loss per week without dropping all the water is.
I think your numbers are way, way off. Both your initial caloric intake assumptions when you started gaining weight, and your intake numbers now. But it doesn't matter. Counting calories is rarely rewarding other than as a quick baseline. Eat sensibly, eat enough to jumpstart your metabolism, and exercise. The weight WILL come off. I'm consuming around 2500 calories a day right now, and it is much more than I used to take in. But I eat better and use it. I've lost 30 pounds this year, went from a 38 to a 34 in the waist. It just takes time.
EDIT: Yeah, the 10 pounds thing makes sense if it was your first week. I lost 8 pounds or so the first week, then markedly diminishing returns past that.
a) don't focus as much on calories, but the types of calories you're consuming. By this I mean no simple carbs (sugars, white bread, croutons, white pasta/rice, etc). Also, pay attention to the types of fat you consume, and make sure a lot of your calories come from proteins. There's much more detail in this thread about that. Basically what I'm saying is that, yeah, someone can only eat 1500 calories in a day, but if it's all hot dogs and Mt. Dew, most of those calories will get converted to fat. It's not a simple in->out formula.
b) don't focus on weight. I'd even recommend not weighing yourself very often (maybe once a month). The more you weigh, the more your weight will fluctuate. I've gone through periods of losing 30 pounds in a month (when I started out), to putting on 2 pounds in a month while dropping 4 inches in my waist (when I started lifting weights). If you want something to focus on, start taking measurements across your waist, gut, and chest.
c) If you're going from completely inactive to very active (like I did) you probably won't have a whole lot of muscle to lose, but it's very important to do some type of resistance training. It's pretty common for people who have lost massive amounts of weight purely through diet (lap band, stomach staples, etc) to get various health complications from losing muscle as well (hernias, etc). Weight lifting is great for this, because not only can you be sure not to lose muscle, you have an accurate gauge of your strength (ensuring you're not wasting away).
- Gary Busey
A Glass, Darkly
My weight can easily fluctuate 5 pounds daily.
That's pretty much what I did with my diet, I didn't cut out any of the healthy stuff I was eating, like I said, I just cut out the empty calories, the pasta, white bread, booze, and focused on things like chicken, whole grain bread... croutons and if I eat a (93/7 lean) burger I have a bun and that's about all the simple carbs I go with. Again, I'm not really counting calories to limit, just to have a record of it. With the weighing thing, I'm trying not to weigh myself, but since I'm mostly losing the weight because I'm joining the navy as a musician(assuming I don't royally fuck up the audition... and can make the weight) right now I'm checking in with my recruiter weekly with a weight check, mostly so he can see progression and resolve. And.. I wasn't entirely inactive before, I was running maybe 30 minutes a day 3-5 days a week, plus sporadic weight lifting.
My goal is to get down to 210 in the short-ish term, after which I'm planning to cut down to one hour of running a day. Then once I reach 190 or so I'll start considering lossening up some of the restrictions, let myself have a drink every now and then, as long as I don't start gaining again. The biggest thing is once classes start again, I get super-busy and don't have enough time to do like, anything.
-Whats your thoughts on jump rope as cardio instead of running? I've been doing it lately, and it seems good to me. Been sweating like a mother. Plus I'm hoping it gives me more bounce in my step.
I'm 6'3" , 24 years old and 249lb. I was 260lb a few weeks ago. I would definitely classify myself as overweight. I read the OP, and he said to eat 2000+ calories (most likely more for me), but do I really have to? I mean, theres so much fat on me, isn't that enough supply for my body? I understand the eat 5 times a day thing, but eating 2500 cal a day?
Thanks guys.
Start by eating heathily and well. Don't worry about counting calories. Try to make sure that you're eating consistent amounts, especially on days you work out.
Keep reading and researching; the greatest benefit comes from understanding nutrition and how your body works/reacts to food and exercise.
My goals are both strength and weight gain, and I've gotten both on the current program. All my lifts have significantly increased and I've gone from 120 lbs to 145 lbs since February-ish (though I started on Tube's faggot plan, which was also great, but I slacked and didn't do it consistently). Now, my guess is that I'll see great gains on just about any decent plan, but would I possibly see even better results overall by switching to a program geared towards hypertrophy rather than strength temporarily?
Stick with it and weigh yourself this week, chances are and I am not going to discourage you, you will not lose that much as the majority of that was water weight due to the fact that you are no longer eating as much salt your body isn't holding as much water.
Satans..... hints.....
Conventional wisdom says you should look to develop a decent strength base before you move to a mass-building program.
"Gaining muscle to work with" isn't how it works. While your strength levels will develop on a hypertrophy routine, they will not do so as fast as with a strength orientated one.
Similarly a strength program will give you mass gains (when you're eating enough, which is my main problem), but not as fast as with a hypertrophy program.
For a beginner, this makes very little difference, of course. You're going to see significant development in strength and size within the first six months of lifting however you go about it. Although personally I'd advocate a strength routine until you have a 1.5xbw squat & deadlift, and a 1.25xbw bench press.
From a personal perspective, I see/hear (and am sometimes personally guilty of) medium to advanced lifters applying their current techniques and knowledge to someone else's situation without accounting for how the body reacts differently when starting a lifting regime.
Also, everyone is different and over time you'll come closer to figuring out exactly what works for you and what you want. My goals have changed drastically since the first six months, year that I started lifting, as has my approach and knowledge of the subject. Still learning.
Think of how much your bench press increased between your first and second session. While mostly an issue of technique, admittedly, you're also learning what your body is capable of pushing. During the beginner stages you're constantly testing and pushing past pre-established limits that are mental as well as physical. And short, heavy sets are the best way to do this, as fatigue is going to limit your performance more than any other factor.
Move onto a hypertrophy routine too soon and you could be trying to stimulate growth with a load that is far less than what you are capable of, which is really not ideal.
in theory
So during the initial phases of a lifting program, you are learning to activate more nerves leading into your muscles at the same time. The articles I read also posit that there is a normal operational 'limit' to the number of motor neurons that will fire at any one time, which is why we appear to be weaker than chimpanzees even accounting for similar muscle mass (although there is the matter of leverage being different in the skeletal muscle positioning of apes).
It is possible for those normal operational limits to be bypassed, but not consciously. The two examples that are easily recognisable are the strength of involuntary muscle contractions during an electric shock (an external force activating those motor neurons all at once) and what happens during times of extreme stress and adrenaline overload (the mum-lifting-a-car effect).
(ed: one of the links I was talking about http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090330200829.htm)
Also go with a friend, I remember a bar sitting on my chest a few too many times in that situation
It is kind of weird to talk about, but I suffer from epilepsy, and whenever I suffer a seizure, the next day it feels like I have had the most intense workout of my life. Seriously, I can only imagine what my body is doing, and I have no doubt it's not good for me, but I am exhausted for days. I can imagine what you're talking about with the 'electric shock' effect. It fucking hurts.