ThegreatcowLord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
Ahhh man, playing FS1 sure is bringing back old memories....
Especially the first time you encounter the shivans....
I swear nothing was more terrifying then unloading your entire bank of Fury missles just to destroy one lowly SVF Scorpian because your ML-16 laser might as well be throwing turnips at the ship.
So freaking intense when you manage to blindfire both your missles and your lasers into it over and over again until it finally explodes....
I think you'd see a lot of interest for a 360/ps3 space "sim", since you can design decent controls around the controllers. The idea of a big release sim with 26 targeting controls is dead and buried, I'm afraid.
I think the Lucasarts dude was bang on the money when he said "X-wing? Who the hell would go out and buy a joystick?"
Apparently that's a misquote, but then again how can anyone really top FreeSpace 2, especially when the game got better as the campaign went on instead of tapering off like most games do? That's quite a high to overcome even with the dream match angle.
I'm saying he's pretty dead on that unless you've got a "COOL" factor like Guitar Hero, a joystick is a big barrier to overcome. If you've noticed, they're getting kind of hard to get. Most joysticks are either cheap crap or really expensive enthusiast level stuff.
And Eve was really boring. Please tell me this is different.
I've spent an equal time in Eve and FS2, and so far FS2 is a very different thing. You don't even have to wait more than two missions before you're dodging beams in FS2.
The HOTAS and the like controllers aren't really conducive to Freespace.
Not if you want to play the game well anyway.
Dude sometimes you just go say something so wrong it's fucking shameful
Robman on
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
The only way you could think FS2 is even remotely similar to EVE apart from superficial resemblances is if you never, ever played a single space sim once in your life. Which unfortunately, is a very real possibility.
After waiting 3 days for my paypal transfer to clear and an hour for the download, I finally have FS2.
The training mission in the demo was a seriously abridged version of the full game's, and the escort mission you start out with in the full game is much more fun.
it's actually a terrible way to fight a war. You've got this one supermassive capital ship that can be in one place at a time, and it requires a whole fleet of escort. You could probably build and maintain 3 or 4 GTD-headed fleets for the cost of the Colussus fleet and defend more systems at once.
Because when your opponent throws an even bigger fucking juggernaut at you, and blows yours up, you're utterly helpless to do anything but retreat. The entire last third of FS2 is spent on the run, trying to minimize your losses against an unstoppable Shivan advance because you threw everything you had into one big ship and it went down.
The only reason humanity doesn't get wiped out in FS2 is because the Shivans have some ulterior motive that nobody fucking understands. Humans and Vasudans are just insects to them, they're clearing out the puny meddlers so that they can do whatever the fuck they're doing with eighty Sathanas juggernauts that could blow up every inhabited planet in the galaxy if they so chose.
Instead they wipe out a system in a supernova and disapper to who the fuck knows where, no thanks to the tens of thousands of lives lost on the Colossus.
"Doomed to fail" is a recurring theme throughout the FreeSpace games, and it's refreshing because they make failure interesting. You get to escape to fight another day.
it's actually a terrible way to fight a war. You've got this one supermassive capital ship that can be in one place at a time, and it requires a whole fleet of escort. You could probably build and maintain 3 or 4 GTD-headed fleets for the cost of the Colussus fleet and defend more systems at once.
Because when your opponent throws an even bigger fucking juggernaut at you, and blows yours up, you're utterly helpless to do anything but retreat. The entire last third of FS2 is spent on the run, trying to minimize your losses against an unstoppable Shivan advance because you threw everything you had into one big ship and it went down.
The only reason humanity doesn't get wiped out in FS2 is because the Shivans have some ulterior motive that nobody fucking understands. Humans and Vasudans are just insects to them, they're clearing out the puny meddlers so that they can do whatever the fuck they're doing with eighty Sathanas juggernauts that could blow up every inhabited planet in the galaxy if they so chose.
Instead they wipe out a system in a supernova and disapper to who the fuck knows where, no thanks to the tens of thousands of lives lost on the Colossus.
"Doomed to fail" is a recurring theme throughout the FreeSpace games, and it's refreshing because they make failure interesting. You get to escape to fight another day.
you see, that's one thing they do in SciFi that I hate...
nearly unbeatable aliens. humanity being beaten up so bad there is no beliavable way we could win.
The point of Freespace 1 and 2 is survival, not winning. You fight the Shivans to hold back the tide, they can't be defeated via conventional military methods.
But neither are the Shivans omnipotent, they were successfully sealed off in Capella, fan campaigns not withstanding.
As much as I enjoy using a HOTAS, I'm inclined to agree. The addition of a throttle actually isn't of any great value to playing FS2 compared to the speed with which you can adjust any multitude of things, from targeting enemies/subsystems/turrets/bombs to changing energy settings, via keyboard with your left hand.
That said, I rarely ever play above medium difficulty, so I still use my HOTAS 'cause it feels nice. :P
The point of Freespace 1 and 2 is survival, not winning. You fight the Shivans to hold back the tide, they can't be defeated via conventional military methods.
But neither are the Shivans omnipotent, they were successfully sealed off in Capella, fan campaigns not withstanding.
but winning and surviving are almost the same thing. They will keep coming back until we finally win.
ThegreatcowLord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
It is my fervent hope that something officially gets resolved with the Shivan threat someday, though I fear it will probably suffer from cliche-itis and not resolve it well.
Nukes that shoot beam weapons while in flight to the target.
So, Honor Harrington, then?
Which, btw, absolutely needs to be made into a game.
And, thanks to this thread, I'll be reinstalling Freespace, again, for like the third time. Anyone else force themselves to replay the FS1 mission where you first run into the Shivans until you down a couple? Or am I the only sadist like that here?
And, thanks to this thread, I'll be reinstalling Freespace, again, for like the third time. Anyone else force themselves to replay the FS1 mission where you first run into the Shivans until you down a couple? Or am I the only sadist like that here?
I was beating the hell out of them until they jumped into subspace like a bunch of jerkfaces. If they hadn't run off, I definitely would've downed the buggers.
As much as I enjoy using a HOTAS, I'm inclined to agree. The addition of a throttle actually isn't of any great value to playing FS2 compared to the speed with which you can adjust any multitude of things, from targeting enemies/subsystems/turrets/bombs to changing energy settings, via keyboard with your left hand.
That said, I rarely ever play above medium difficulty, so I still use my HOTAS 'cause it feels nice. :P
Well, regarding the throttle, that gigantic ass one is useless because for expert turning, the throttle needs to be adjusted constantly and quickly. Something impossible with that big one, because a regular joystick allows adjusting it whilst still manipulating four major functions of your ship in tandem.
I'm sure it can feel nice, no argument there. Just saying, it's not exactly very effective.
But if you can work it to any useful degree, more power to you.
Freespace 3 - Man and Vasudans build an even bigger fleet, beat the Shivans, and realize the Shivans were right all along. Mankind then takes the place of the Shivans, swatting down any alien races who colonize outside of their solar system. Pew pew.
As much as I enjoy using a HOTAS, I'm inclined to agree. The addition of a throttle actually isn't of any great value to playing FS2 compared to the speed with which you can adjust any multitude of things, from targeting enemies/subsystems/turrets/bombs to changing energy settings, via keyboard with your left hand.
That said, I rarely ever play above medium difficulty, so I still use my HOTAS 'cause it feels nice. :P
Well, regarding the throttle, that gigantic ass one is useless because for expert turning, the throttle needs to be adjusted constantly and quickly. Something impossible with that big one, because a regular joystick allows adjusting it whilst still manipulating four major functions of your ship in tandem.
I'm sure it can feel nice, no argument there. Just saying, it's not exactly very effective.
But if you can work it to any useful degree, more power to you.
I've found the opposite to be true. The giant throttles put buttons (and on the fancier ones, switches, hats, dials, sliders, trackballs, etc.) in reach of the throttle hand, whereas a joystick throttle is typically located on the base where there are 4-8 buttons available which generally require the user to take his hand off the throttle slider/flappy thing.
But it's kind of moot, since the only speed settings you usually need in most of these games are bombing speed, full speed, match speed and afterburners. The throttle ends up not working so well for me because there's a disconnect once you hit match speed and your ship is no longer going how fast the throttle says it should.
Orogogus on
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ThegreatcowLord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered Userregular
And, thanks to this thread, I'll be reinstalling Freespace, again, for like the third time. Anyone else force themselves to replay the FS1 mission where you first run into the Shivans until you down a couple? Or am I the only sadist like that here?
I was beating the hell out of them until they jumped into subspace like a bunch of jerkfaces. If they hadn't run off, I definitely would've downed the buggers.
Yeah that early mission where you meet them was annoying as hell, you pretty much had to unload your ENTIRE bank of fury dumbfire missiles into them because your ML-16 Laser was about as effective in punching through the shields as space-peeing on it.
But it's kind of moot, since the only speed settings you usually need in most of these games are bombing speed, full speed, match speed and afterburners. The throttle ends up not working so well for me because there's a disconnect once you hit match speed and your ship is no longer going how fast the throttle says it should.
An opinion is nice, but that's not the way the game works. In order to turn well, the throttle needs to be adjusted just as a car needs switching gears when it corners. You need access to your gearbox at all times, but still need access to other functions at the same time as well, which the HOTAS doesn't provide.
And on my joystick I have full control of the throttle with my thumb, while the other four fingers are used for the four remaining buttons above. It's why it's best to have a small sensitive throttle that can only be adjusted very swiftly and accurately with a finger, as opposed to an entire hand requiring a big unwieldy motion.
I'm playing through Freespace 2 at the moment. Fucking fantastic game, even by today's standards (which are probably lower then back then imo). Currently undercover with the NTF, protecting the Iceni and the Hinton. But the bloody Rebel Vasudans keep destroying the Hinton too quickly, and i don't like failing any of the objectives this early on.
Definitly going to try some of the player made campaigns once i clear this.
Kiith on
The very existense of flame throwers proves that at sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves "I want to set those people over there on fire, but i'm just not close enough to get the job done."
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
I'm playing through Freespace 2 at the moment. Fucking fantastic game, even by today's standards (which are probably lower then back then imo).
I think the standards are the same today as back in 1999 when the game came out because the mainstream action space sim pretty much died (or at least stagnated) with that game. If no game since has been made to challenge the standards it set, then, hell, it would still be smart and modern by default. Compared to more overwanked genres like the first-person shooter, anyway.
It's a hell of a peak, though. I'm playing through FS1->FS2 and it's still a damned rush.
FS2 doesn't waste any time between "Hey, welcome to the game. here's how to fly around and blow stuff up" and "We're basically screwed, but let's try anyway."
But the game is pretty much perfect. Flying toward a ship with guns blazing and then hearing that it has "anti-fighter beams with an effective range of 1500" at 2000 was exciting.
The standard for the player was higher back then. That the player would be able to maneuver the control scheme, buy the joysticks if need be, etcetera.
Shit didn't seem to work out, so they ramped it down quite a bit. One could make the case that the games suffered, not being as complex and as deep anymore.
I always thought FS2 started off pretty slow and somewhat easy, though I had just played through TIE Fighter so it took me until the midgame before I was having fun with the dogfights.
Its strength was the campaign got better as it went on. That's rare by itself.
Posts
Especially the first time you encounter the shivans....
I swear nothing was more terrifying then unloading your entire bank of Fury missles just to destroy one lowly SVF Scorpian because your ML-16 laser might as well be throwing turnips at the ship.
So freaking intense when you manage to blindfire both your missles and your lasers into it over and over again until it finally explodes....
*Whew*
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
Buying peripherals for console games has never been a rare occurrence. Packaging deals are also a favourite cash cow, they just need the right title.
Hey there's this game from the Star Wars franchise that might generate interest...
I think you'd see a lot of interest for a 360/ps3 space "sim", since you can design decent controls around the controllers. The idea of a big release sim with 26 targeting controls is dead and buried, I'm afraid.
Incidentally, also the best controller for playing Freespace, supposedly.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
And Eve was really boring. Please tell me this is different.
if you play eve with this
I've spent an equal time in Eve and FS2, and so far FS2 is a very different thing. You don't even have to wait more than two missions before you're dodging beams in FS2.
I barely saw combat in hours of playing Eve.
What in all the world....just play it for 10 minutes and come back here to post your thoughts.
Because I really don't know how you'd ever confuse Eve with FS2, especially considering all gameplay vids posted thus far in this thread.
My beam cannon is primed just looking at that thing. Sexy.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Not if you want to play the game well anyway.
Dude sometimes you just go say something so wrong it's fucking shameful
A shame, really.
It's like comparing CoD4 with C&C Generals because both have desert towns and rifles and tanks.
Every time this gets posted I get super angreh at my mom for selling mine in a garage sale for probably free 5 or so years ago.....
daaaaaaaaaaamnnnnnnnnn youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
It's completely wrong anyway you look at it.
The training mission in the demo was a seriously abridged version of the full game's, and the escort mission you start out with in the full game is much more fun.
Because when your opponent throws an even bigger fucking juggernaut at you, and blows yours up, you're utterly helpless to do anything but retreat. The entire last third of FS2 is spent on the run, trying to minimize your losses against an unstoppable Shivan advance because you threw everything you had into one big ship and it went down.
The only reason humanity doesn't get wiped out in FS2 is because the Shivans have some ulterior motive that nobody fucking understands. Humans and Vasudans are just insects to them, they're clearing out the puny meddlers so that they can do whatever the fuck they're doing with eighty Sathanas juggernauts that could blow up every inhabited planet in the galaxy if they so chose.
Instead they wipe out a system in a supernova and disapper to who the fuck knows where, no thanks to the tens of thousands of lives lost on the Colossus.
"Doomed to fail" is a recurring theme throughout the FreeSpace games, and it's refreshing because they make failure interesting. You get to escape to fight another day.
you see, that's one thing they do in SciFi that I hate...
But neither are the Shivans omnipotent, they were successfully sealed off in Capella, fan campaigns not withstanding.
There is nothing false regarding what I've written.
Maybe you need more experience with the game.
That said, I rarely ever play above medium difficulty, so I still use my HOTAS 'cause it feels nice. :P
but winning and surviving are almost the same thing. They will keep coming back until we finally win.
Ah well...here's hoping...
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
So, Honor Harrington, then?
Which, btw, absolutely needs to be made into a game.
And, thanks to this thread, I'll be reinstalling Freespace, again, for like the third time. Anyone else force themselves to replay the FS1 mission where you first run into the Shivans until you down a couple? Or am I the only sadist like that here?
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I was beating the hell out of them until they jumped into subspace like a bunch of jerkfaces. If they hadn't run off, I definitely would've downed the buggers.
Well, regarding the throttle, that gigantic ass one is useless because for expert turning, the throttle needs to be adjusted constantly and quickly. Something impossible with that big one, because a regular joystick allows adjusting it whilst still manipulating four major functions of your ship in tandem.
I'm sure it can feel nice, no argument there. Just saying, it's not exactly very effective.
But if you can work it to any useful degree, more power to you.
Yours sounds real nice tho.
It's pretty sweet!
I've found the opposite to be true. The giant throttles put buttons (and on the fancier ones, switches, hats, dials, sliders, trackballs, etc.) in reach of the throttle hand, whereas a joystick throttle is typically located on the base where there are 4-8 buttons available which generally require the user to take his hand off the throttle slider/flappy thing.
But it's kind of moot, since the only speed settings you usually need in most of these games are bombing speed, full speed, match speed and afterburners. The throttle ends up not working so well for me because there's a disconnect once you hit match speed and your ship is no longer going how fast the throttle says it should.
Yeah that early mission where you meet them was annoying as hell, you pretty much had to unload your ENTIRE bank of fury dumbfire missiles into them because your ML-16 Laser was about as effective in punching through the shields as space-peeing on it.
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
An opinion is nice, but that's not the way the game works. In order to turn well, the throttle needs to be adjusted just as a car needs switching gears when it corners. You need access to your gearbox at all times, but still need access to other functions at the same time as well, which the HOTAS doesn't provide.
And on my joystick I have full control of the throttle with my thumb, while the other four fingers are used for the four remaining buttons above. It's why it's best to have a small sensitive throttle that can only be adjusted very swiftly and accurately with a finger, as opposed to an entire hand requiring a big unwieldy motion.
Definitly going to try some of the player made campaigns once i clear this.
I think the standards are the same today as back in 1999 when the game came out because the mainstream action space sim pretty much died (or at least stagnated) with that game. If no game since has been made to challenge the standards it set, then, hell, it would still be smart and modern by default. Compared to more overwanked genres like the first-person shooter, anyway.
It's a hell of a peak, though. I'm playing through FS1->FS2 and it's still a damned rush.
But the game is pretty much perfect. Flying toward a ship with guns blazing and then hearing that it has "anti-fighter beams with an effective range of 1500" at 2000 was exciting.
Shit didn't seem to work out, so they ramped it down quite a bit. One could make the case that the games suffered, not being as complex and as deep anymore.
Its strength was the campaign got better as it went on. That's rare by itself.