I am enjoying a victory popsicle. It is icy and delicious.
So, Spectrum, give us some info on the setting. What were the evils, anyway?
And what does the Antartic Research Facility (A.R.S.) have to do with S.T.A.R.S.?
B:L on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
Right, so the initial idea was based on there being SO many inactives, both villagers and mafia, in the past few games. I wanted something to punish that AND empty sheeping days on the network's lead. Thus, the idea was born to have the mafia have and auto-power to kill the lowest poster. Combine that with no activity requirement and I figured the village would pick up on it very, very quickly. I figured that someone would think about the fact that it's ME hosting and think "SPECTRUM HAET INACTIVES RAWR" and scratch their head at the no activity requirement. Combine that with the special callout that both votes AND posts after narration wouldn't be counted and I felt there were enough clues to piece that part together quickly.
Then, once the mechanic was clear, the village would start hunting down people who were posting alot before it was publicly known, as well as anyone who might not be posting alot, but instead only seemed to be just posting fluff.
(Sidebar: In the initial idea, before I even had Infidel look at it, I considered including an SK who autokilled the highest poster each day, but eventually considered that unworkable.)
Given the new mechanic, I figured I'd keep it simple. Vig, guard, seer, 2 masons, 5 mafia. Fairly standard. Then add a couple roles to deal specifically with the mechanic. First, I had it as the masons would each give out a heatpack, maybe they would be able to figure it out together much faster. After talking with Infidel, I changed that to masons sharing heat (which gives them rare survivability, since they're all but immune to the freeze kill) and a new special distributing them. Add a neutral who can steal heat and I was done.
So why is someone giving out heatpacks secretly? Someone stole them, of course. It was a simple jump from there to Boris. And once I had him, as Arivia surmised, I decided to go all-in with trope/archetype names. Hence why the vig is Vin Diesel, the guard is LL Cool J (thxu IRC discussion), the neutral is the CEO of Blackwater, and the other specials are Umbrella employees. (So the vig, guard, and neutral think they're in one theme, the mafia think they're in some mystical survival horror theme, the Umbrella specials think they're secretly in the RE Universe, and poor Boris is allll alone.) This mostly done for the lulz, but also to avoid a role call being even remotely possible.
What did I want people to take from the Day 1 narration? There was at least one idea per 'section'.
The first introduced 5 mafia.
The second introduced the stolen heatpack concept (so hopefully the Janitor wasn't completely out of left field). More importantly, it also had the clue that you needed to STAY ACTIVE to not die. (Which people did pick up on eventually.)
The third was the deathplant.
The fourth was a callout for the neutral.
So, what was obviously unexpected was the bloodbath on Day 1. I didn't expect quite THAT many people to be lined up on the same number. And then g_r's order came in. Everything was still fine, up until riiiiight at the last minute when Robos came in to make 2 posts. Whoops. (If it amuses you, we can consider this the anti-Tommy2Hands mechanic.)
The village still had a shot, especially when Darian's first order came in for Orange Soda. And then he changed it. It didn't help losing the Seer on Day 2 because Gumpy was in London, but losing the guard because Ebfan was gone (and he DID vote for the combined day and say he wouldn't be around. unfortunate.) was pretty much the deathblow.
On reflection this game really wasn't balanced badly, we were really just the beneficiaries of a series of hilarious village special fuckups and managed to avoid making any glaring errors.
Fun game, definitely. Thanks for running this, Spectrum, and well-played by team evil.
What made you ignore my list of EVIIILS? :P
Actually, you had v_w on your list:
Any game where OS dies is a good game.
I don't know what to think of Kuhlm's reveal as a janitor. If we were going by the post count theory, wouldn't he have given a heat pack to Ebfan and saved our guardian? That didn't make sense to me.
Going by the top posters list, Vag winds is right at the top, followed by Houn. Would they be obvious enough to avoid the bottom if that were the mechanic?
Intuition wise, Dac Vin and Arivia are pinging my radar. Numerology wise, I got 3, 5, and 10. Which is Dac again, Dogbone the dead villager and Funky.
Also, Houn, I so wanted to vig you day one just for making me cross your name off so many different voting lists, but I decided a mafia wouldn't put themselves out there so much.
Also, Houn, I so wanted to vig you day one just for making me cross your name off so many different voting lists, but I decided a mafia wouldn't put themselves out there so much.
Well, on day one we had the major advantage of being the only ones who knew about the hypothermia mechanic.
FunkyWaltDogg on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
As you'll note from the post counts, if kuhlmeye had given a heatpack to Ebfan, all it would have done was get Kay killed also. You would have had to not vote out garroad_ran, as he was the next lowest poster.
Hence the "would it have mattered?" (No.)
Spectrum on
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Dac VinS-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC!Registered Userregular
edited October 2009
So in a overly simplified look at hypothermia, the activity requirements were shifted off the host and straight to the mafia.
Well alright, I don't give a fuck if my anger is unfounded or if the actual mechanic was not as bad as I thought (My idea was pretty much "anyone who doesn't pass an activity threshold dies"), I'm out of here. Maybe I'll come back to run some stuff or play again once I get a proof of people not being horrible anymore.
Yeah, I pretty much don't do anything different when I'm evil. I post a lot, make tons of joke votes, and jump to really stupid conclusions. It's just my thing.
Also, Houn, I so wanted to vig you day one just for making me cross your name off so many different voting lists, but I decided a mafia wouldn't put themselves out there so much.
Well, on day one we had the major advantage of being the only ones who knew about the hypothermia mechanic.
Which also allowed the mafia to shoot themselves in the foot over it too.
Letting mechanics slip that the village isn't privy to is a big killer and that shit happens.
The balance wasn't so much the issue as the neutral getting nailed by the mafia and general not defending / convictions. Lots of proper leads were brought up, the village had the ability to win still even after the "blowout" of day 1, but people didn't stick with em.
Don't roll over to the bandwagon, people!
Infidel on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
Once the mechanic was public, the strategy for the mafia would have been to try and trigger a multikill. Comparatively, the janitor (and maybe the neutral) would have been fighting to prevent a multikill (as helping the lowest doesn't matter unless they were a special). One strategy for the neutral would have been to leech from the second lowest person and see what happens. (Mafia tries to vig the lowest to multi, kills the leeched only.)
Nocturne was very, VERY close at times, he just never quite managed to take the final step in public or get one of his suspicions lynched.
ddj, on the other hand. Well...
Thanks to everyone for playing and BIG THANKS to Infidel, who had full proboard access, for critiquing mechanics.
Hey Darian, I gave you a list too. I told you we should kill B:L.
I even voted for him like every day too. My plan was to try to get vigged tonight and make it look like B:L wasn't also mafia, since the last two games he had a kill he tried to kill me.
Either way Kay, your math STILL didn't mean anything. Your 2nd assumption assumes that if either of us has a kill we WILL use it on the other at some point in the game. Your 1st assumption was that there was 5 mafia, which you had no way of knowing for sure.
The only reason your numbers meant anything was that there were so many mafia left at that point that you had a 60% chance of hitting any two people at random and hitting a mafia.
But by basing your reasoning on what me and B:L would and wouldn't do was flawed.
Either way Kay, your math STILL didn't mean anything. Your 2nd assumption assumes that if either of us has a kill we WILL use it on the other at some point in the game. Your 1st assumption was that there was 5 mafia, which you had no way of knowing for sure.
The only reason your numbers meant anything was that there were so many mafia left at that point that you had a 60% chance of hitting any two people at random and hitting a mafia.
But by basing your reasoning on what me and B:L would and wouldn't do was flawed.
The five mafia was based on the day one narration, which we had been advised to read closely. I don't think it was too much of a stretch. But... why are you still arguing those numbers? Let it go!
Interestingly, based on recent evidence we can now see that B:L can only win as an evil if OS is also on his team.
Oh mannnn, yeah, I definitely picked a bad time to join in a phalla where inactivity was the leading cause of death. I was really busy both on Friday and Saturday, so I ended up posting even less than I usually do (though to be fair usually I post little not because I'm inactive, but because I have little to add to the thread).
It was still a fun game to be in, for as long as I was, and to follow for the day that I wasn't. Thanks Spec.
Awaiting Dunadumb's usual I PEGGED x AND y AS MAFIA routine.
don't be mad because I correctly guessed the mechanic on day 2 (well close enough) and called out 2 badguys on one day of results... while only posting for maybe 2 hours during a weekend of constant drinking.
I had a great time, so thanks to Spectrum for hosting! Pretty cool concepts. Day one was kinda nuts but I guess you can't predict that, though in hindsight, since you were creating a Phalla to punish inactivity we could assume there'd be a bunch of two posters.
Yesterday was my lowest activity in a Phalla ever. I was online the entire day but completely braindead. I take some consolation in the fact that had I been more active someone else would have died in my place.
Awaiting Dunadumb's usual I PEGGED x AND y AS MAFIA routine.
don't be mad because I correctly guessed the mechanic on day 2 (well close enough) and called out 2 badguys on one day of results... while only posting for maybe 2 hours during a weekend of constant drinking.
Awaiting Dunadumb's usual I PEGGED x AND y AS MAFIA routine.
don't be mad because I correctly guessed the mechanic on day 2 (well close enough) and called out 2 badguys on one day of results... while only posting for maybe 2 hours during a weekend of constant drinking.
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
edited October 2009
Sooo, I'm not terrible, see!
OS, are you still picking holes in my analysis? You and B:L were still alive, ergo, neither of you had kills, both of you were evil, or one of you was evil. I don't think either of you would use an evil kill to gank the other, but you would use a good-special kill, especially vigilante. Mainly because you call your kill, get your guard and network, and go!
Assuming there were five mafia was not a stretch - 20% of 25 is five, and as Spectrum stated, we were to read narrations etc carefully. And that also said five!
So the numbers on their own were pretty meaningless, as you could pick any two people. As I said, it only became interesting because the pair of you were both alive, and we KNEW that neither of you were the vigilante.
I hadn't really noticed anything else that was suspicious as such, though Houn's posting was pretty high right from the start. So was V_W's postcount, though. I could have put more time into post-count analysis at the weekend, but I had company for most of it, had NEW BOOKS for the rest, and thus didn't have a great deal of time for tabulation. The probability thing was very simple and took about 5 minutes on Sunday morning before company arrived.
But all in all, that was really cool - the hypothermia mechanic? I can see other people lifting that for games in different ways. It's a neat way to punish inactivity while giving another metric to analyse for mafia-huntin'.
Kay on
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
I should also remind that the mechanic was also there to punish mindless sheeping.
Network head says "hay guyz vote Dunadumb"
"k !Dunadumb"
"sounds good !Dunadumb"
"baa baa !Dunadumb"
WHOOPS WHOLE LOTTA FROZEN SHEEP TOMORROW
Anything I missed writing up or that you guys want more information on?
OS, are you still picking holes in my analysis? You and B:L were still alive, ergo, neither of you had kills, both of you were evil, or one of you was evil. I don't think either of you would use an evil kill to gank the other, but you would use a good-special kill, especially vigilante. Mainly because you call your kill, get your guard and network, and go!
Assuming there were five mafia was not a stretch - 20% of 25 is five, and as Spectrum stated, we were to read narrations etc carefully. And that also said five!
So the numbers on their own were pretty meaningless, as you could pick any two people. As I said, it only became interesting because the pair of you were both alive, and we KNEW that neither of you were the vigilante.
I hadn't really noticed anything else that was suspicious as such, though Houn's posting was pretty high right from the start. So was V_W's postcount, though. I could have put more time into post-count analysis at the weekend, but I had company for most of it, had NEW BOOKS for the rest, and thus didn't have a great deal of time for tabulation. The probability thing was very simple and took about 5 minutes on Sunday morning before company arrived.
But all in all, that was really cool - the hypothermia mechanic? I can see other people lifting that for games in different ways. It's a neat way to punish inactivity while giving another metric to analyse for mafia-huntin'.
My post count is always at the top end in any phalla I'm in. I tend to be chatty, though, especially when I'm at work.
Also, you should never assume you know someone else's motivations. B:L and OS have a public "grudge", sure, but both of them are smart enough to exploit that people know that.
Posts
Don't ask that! There are things that man is not meant to know!
so why kill me day one, you jerks?
hmph
i never would have had to worry about the hypothermia at least.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
And what does the Antartic Research Facility (A.R.S.) have to do with S.T.A.R.S.?
Then, once the mechanic was clear, the village would start hunting down people who were posting alot before it was publicly known, as well as anyone who might not be posting alot, but instead only seemed to be just posting fluff.
(Sidebar: In the initial idea, before I even had Infidel look at it, I considered including an SK who autokilled the highest poster each day, but eventually considered that unworkable.)
Given the new mechanic, I figured I'd keep it simple. Vig, guard, seer, 2 masons, 5 mafia. Fairly standard. Then add a couple roles to deal specifically with the mechanic. First, I had it as the masons would each give out a heatpack, maybe they would be able to figure it out together much faster. After talking with Infidel, I changed that to masons sharing heat (which gives them rare survivability, since they're all but immune to the freeze kill) and a new special distributing them. Add a neutral who can steal heat and I was done.
So why is someone giving out heatpacks secretly? Someone stole them, of course. It was a simple jump from there to Boris. And once I had him, as Arivia surmised, I decided to go all-in with trope/archetype names. Hence why the vig is Vin Diesel, the guard is LL Cool J (thxu IRC discussion), the neutral is the CEO of Blackwater, and the other specials are Umbrella employees. (So the vig, guard, and neutral think they're in one theme, the mafia think they're in some mystical survival horror theme, the Umbrella specials think they're secretly in the RE Universe, and poor Boris is allll alone.) This mostly done for the lulz, but also to avoid a role call being even remotely possible.
What did I want people to take from the Day 1 narration? There was at least one idea per 'section'.
The first introduced 5 mafia.
The second introduced the stolen heatpack concept (so hopefully the Janitor wasn't completely out of left field). More importantly, it also had the clue that you needed to STAY ACTIVE to not die. (Which people did pick up on eventually.)
The third was the deathplant.
The fourth was a callout for the neutral.
So, what was obviously unexpected was the bloodbath on Day 1. I didn't expect quite THAT many people to be lined up on the same number. And then g_r's order came in. Everything was still fine, up until riiiiight at the last minute when Robos came in to make 2 posts. Whoops. (If it amuses you, we can consider this the anti-Tommy2Hands mechanic.)
The village still had a shot, especially when Darian's first order came in for Orange Soda. And then he changed it. It didn't help losing the Seer on Day 2 because Gumpy was in London, but losing the guard because Ebfan was gone (and he DID vote for the combined day and say he wouldn't be around. unfortunate.) was pretty much the deathblow.
Actually, you had v_w on your list:
And so did kuhlmeye:
You also both had Houn... how different things would have been if I'd gone with that choice instead.
Well, on day one we had the major advantage of being the only ones who knew about the hypothermia mechanic.
Hence the "would it have mattered?" (No.)
Well alright, I don't give a fuck if my anger is unfounded or if the actual mechanic was not as bad as I thought (My idea was pretty much "anyone who doesn't pass an activity threshold dies"), I'm out of here. Maybe I'll come back to run some stuff or play again once I get a proof of people not being horrible anymore.
Which also allowed the mafia to shoot themselves in the foot over it too.
Letting mechanics slip that the village isn't privy to is a big killer and that shit happens.
The balance wasn't so much the issue as the neutral getting nailed by the mafia and general not defending / convictions. Lots of proper leads were brought up, the village had the ability to win still even after the "blowout" of day 1, but people didn't stick with em.
Don't roll over to the bandwagon, people!
Nocturne was very, VERY close at times, he just never quite managed to take the final step in public or get one of his suspicions lynched.
ddj, on the other hand. Well...
Thanks to everyone for playing and BIG THANKS to Infidel, who had full proboard access, for critiquing mechanics.
Also, Darian: Why do you have to vig the airman while he's serving his country and saving lives? You freakin' anti-American.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
I even voted for him like every day too. My plan was to try to get vigged tonight and make it look like B:L wasn't also mafia, since the last two games he had a kill he tried to kill me.
Either way Kay, your math STILL didn't mean anything. Your 2nd assumption assumes that if either of us has a kill we WILL use it on the other at some point in the game. Your 1st assumption was that there was 5 mafia, which you had no way of knowing for sure.
The only reason your numbers meant anything was that there were so many mafia left at that point that you had a 60% chance of hitting any two people at random and hitting a mafia.
But by basing your reasoning on what me and B:L would and wouldn't do was flawed.
The five mafia was based on the day one narration, which we had been advised to read closely. I don't think it was too much of a stretch. But... why are you still arguing those numbers? Let it go!
Interestingly, based on recent evidence we can now see that B:L can only win as an evil if OS is also on his team.
No offense. :P
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
It was still a fun game to be in, for as long as I was, and to follow for the day that I wasn't. Thanks Spec.
don't be mad because I correctly guessed the mechanic on day 2 (well close enough) and called out 2 badguys on one day of results... while only posting for maybe 2 hours during a weekend of constant drinking.
its not my fault!
Heh, regardless I had fun Spec. Thanks for hosting!
Yesterday was my lowest activity in a Phalla ever. I was online the entire day but completely braindead. I take some consolation in the fact that had I been more active someone else would have died in my place.
PSN - sumowot
http://wolfsrainfall.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1&page=1#11
ololol
but I was a serial killer that game and killed 2 guards in 2 nights....
but nice to know I have a following?
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
things that I have learned: In the next game I can convince vagrant_winds that the people who agreed with his logic are evil.
OS, are you still picking holes in my analysis? You and B:L were still alive, ergo, neither of you had kills, both of you were evil, or one of you was evil. I don't think either of you would use an evil kill to gank the other, but you would use a good-special kill, especially vigilante. Mainly because you call your kill, get your guard and network, and go!
Assuming there were five mafia was not a stretch - 20% of 25 is five, and as Spectrum stated, we were to read narrations etc carefully. And that also said five!
So the numbers on their own were pretty meaningless, as you could pick any two people. As I said, it only became interesting because the pair of you were both alive, and we KNEW that neither of you were the vigilante.
I hadn't really noticed anything else that was suspicious as such, though Houn's posting was pretty high right from the start. So was V_W's postcount, though. I could have put more time into post-count analysis at the weekend, but I had company for most of it, had NEW BOOKS for the rest, and thus didn't have a great deal of time for tabulation. The probability thing was very simple and took about 5 minutes on Sunday morning before company arrived.
But all in all, that was really cool - the hypothermia mechanic? I can see other people lifting that for games in different ways. It's a neat way to punish inactivity while giving another metric to analyse for mafia-huntin'.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Network head says "hay guyz vote Dunadumb"
"k !Dunadumb"
"sounds good !Dunadumb"
"baa baa !Dunadumb"
WHOOPS WHOLE LOTTA FROZEN SHEEP TOMORROW
Anything I missed writing up or that you guys want more information on?
Is there some host rule against it to preserve the order of the universe?
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Gotcha
My post count is always at the top end in any phalla I'm in. I tend to be chatty, though, especially when I'm at work.
Also, you should never assume you know someone else's motivations. B:L and OS have a public "grudge", sure, but both of them are smart enough to exploit that people know that.