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My marshmallow Americans, I have harglebargle [POLITICS]

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    Run Run RunRun Run Run __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    It's a non-repressive employment in which a member of the workers holds executive power for a week, but all decisions must be approved by committee.

    something like that would never work. they'd go bankrupt sooo fast.

    Run Run Run on
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    MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    you can't own property, man

    MrMonroe on
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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    It's a non-repressive employment in which a member of the workers holds executive power for a week, but all decisions must be approved by committee.

    something like that would never work. they'd go bankrupt sooo fast.

    why

    because a group of people are incapable of making fiscally sound decisions?

    Quoth on
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    L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    It's a non-repressive employment in which a member of the workers holds executive power for a week, but all decisions must be approved by committee.

    something like that would never work. they'd go bankrupt sooo fast.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brukman_factory

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_Bauen

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaSinPat


    "On December 18 2001, about fifty people (most of them women) met at the factory and demanded to be granted a travel allowance, just to be able to keep their jobs. The Brukman brothers, owners of the factory, promised to bring money and left. The workers decided to stay, asked the doorman for the keys, and spent the night at the factory. Their idea was to take the building and negotiate from that position. But the owners never returned, so they began working again by themselves. In time, the factory made new clients and managed to pay off debts. The workers, organized in an assembly, decided on a fair wage for themselves. After months they were able to raise their salaries and hire ten more employees."

    Oh look, they abandoned it, there goes that problem for you!

    L|ama on
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    Run Run RunRun Run Run __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    L|ama wrote: »
    And the communist's answer would be that the factory owner is already stealing from the workers, or what quoth said.

    how is he stealing from the workers? it is a mere exchange of service for money.

    without the owner there wouldn't be a factory in the first place.

    Run Run Run on
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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    L|ama wrote: »
    And the communist's answer would be that the factory owner is already stealing from the workers, or what quoth said.

    how is he stealing from the workers? it is a mere exchange of service for money.

    without the owner there wouldn't be a factory in the first place.

    but without the workers the factory wouldn't be operational

    Quoth on
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    MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    L|ama wrote: »
    And the communist's answer would be that the factory owner is already stealing from the workers, or what quoth said.

    how is he stealing from the workers? it is a mere exchange of service for money.

    without the owner there wouldn't be a factory in the first place.

    even our legal system holds that some contracts are unenforceable because they unlawfully disadvantage some party

    if you believe the disadvantage is very severe (and it certainly is at times) then the contract is null and there may even be some sort of damage award

    it's not a terrifically far leap to think that award ought to include ownership of the factory in some circumstances

    MrMonroe on
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    Run Run RunRun Run Run __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    Quoth wrote: »
    but without the workers the factory wouldn't be operational

    yes. both are necessary. yet, I ask again, how is the factory owner stealing from the workers?

    he is giving them an opportunity to earn money so that they can support their families.

    Run Run Run on
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    L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    chicken, egg, this argument got futile quick.

    What about if the current owner inherited the factory from their father? Then they don't really have a legitimate claim to doing much of anything to help the factory (ignoring accounting and such for the sake of the argument, although you could count the accountants as workers).
    Quoth wrote: »
    but without the workers the factory wouldn't be operational

    yes. both are necessary. yet, I ask again, how is the factory owner stealing from the workers?

    he is giving them an opportunity to earn money so that they can support their families.

    They would be making more if he weren't profiting from it, and he isn't doing any work to help.

    L|ama on
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    Run Run RunRun Run Run __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    MrMonroe wrote: »

    it's not a terrifically far leap to think that award ought to include ownership of the factory in some circumstances

    Nope. The factory belongs to the person who invested his resources in it being build.

    Just because I pay someone to mow my lawn does not mean that my garden belongs to that person.

    Run Run Run on
    kissing.jpg
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    But the land ultimately belongs to god, as well all know because we are good Christians.

    MKR on
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    DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    Quoth wrote: »
    it doesn't really match with celandine's observation that most of us were on a y=x line through the grid


    regardless, that was pretty accurate shifty fister

    Actually the perception that I'm extreme upper-right quadrant reflects kind of poorly on the community.

    or perhaps on how you present yourself to the community

    pffft, typical lower left quadrant answer

    DeaconBlues on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Quoth wrote: »
    but without the workers the factory wouldn't be operational

    yes. both are necessary. yet, I ask again, how is the factory owner stealing from the workers?

    he is giving them an opportunity to earn money so that they can support their families.

    if the factory owner is paying himself substantially more than he is paying the workers, arguably he is stealing from them because their labor is more valuable than his oversight

    he needs them but they don't need him

    and you're assuming they are paid enough to support their families, which is not necessarily the case

    Quoth on
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    L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    MrMonroe wrote: »

    it's not a terrifically far leap to think that award ought to include ownership of the factory in some circumstances

    Nope. The factory belongs to the person who invested his resources in it being build.

    Just because I pay someone to mow my lawn does not mean that my garden belongs to that person.

    So in the case of the owner's death, it doesn't change hands, therefore no one has any claim to it any more. That's a dumb way to determine ownership.

    L|ama on
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    Run Run RunRun Run Run __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    L|ama wrote: »
    chicken, egg, this argument got futile quick.

    What about if the current owner inherited the factory from their father? Then they don't really have a legitimate claim to doing much of anything to help the factory (ignoring accounting and such for the sake of the argument, although you could count the accountants as workers).

    the owner can grant ownership to whoever he pleases.

    Run Run Run on
    kissing.jpg
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Sister Quoth, you know it is sin to engage the mentally challenged intellectually. It's not fair to them.

    MKR on
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    L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    What if he dies before he writes a will?

    L|ama on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    L|ama wrote: »
    What if he dies before he writes a will?

    Shareholders.

    Very very few businesses are solo ventures.

    MKR on
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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    MrMonroe wrote: »

    it's not a terrifically far leap to think that award ought to include ownership of the factory in some circumstances

    Nope. The factory belongs to the person who invested his resources in it being build.

    Just because I pay someone to mow my lawn does not mean that my garden belongs to that person.

    why should the factory belong to the person who built it and not the people who ensure its continued operation

    the builder without the workers is bankrupt

    Quoth on
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    Mr. ButtonsMr. Buttons Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Druhim wrote: »
    I agree with Deacon for once
    the bone in the nose comment is a pretty weak example of Rush being racist

    it's not a question of whether it was ok then, the point is you're trying to claim that he's currently racist and you're having to dig back 40 years for a comment he made as an example

    Rush is a fat windbag, but the remark in question is such old news it's no longer relevant

    it's completely relevant. it adds proof that this is nothing new to limbaugh's shtick. it shows that this is something that rush has been working with for 40+ years, and that racially charged comments aren't something he decided to add to his routine 5 years ago in the bath.

    Here's some more examples of his "controversial" comments
    * "We are being told that we have to hope [Obama] succeeds, that we have to bend over, grab the ankles ... because his father was black."
    * "I do believe" Obama is an "angry black guy."
    * "n Obama's America, the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering."
    * "Obama's entire economic program is reparations."
    * Obama is "more African in his roots than he is American" and is "behaving like an African colonial despot."
    * Obama is "Halfrican-American."
    * "Obama has disowned his white half ... he's decided he's got to go all in on the black side."
    * Sotomayor "a reverse racist" appointed by Obama, "the greatest living example of a reverse racist."
    * Obama "wants us to have the same health care and plan that he had in Kenya" and "wants to be the black FDR."
    * Latching onto LA Times op-ed, Limbaugh sings "Barack, The Magic Negro."
    * "God does not have a birth certificate. Neither does Obama"; Obama "has yet to prove he's a citizen."
    * Limbaugh on Gates controversy: "Here you have a black president trying to destroy a white policeman."
    * Limbaugh suggests Obama would not have acted on Somali pirates if he'd known they were "actually young, black Muslim teenagers."
    * Limbaugh suggests Democrats, media believe "you can't criticize the little black man-child."
    * "The government's been taking care of [young blacks] their whole lives."
    * "The days of [minorities] not having any power are over, and they are angry."
    * "[M]inorities never do anything for which they have to apologize."
    * Limbaugh: "The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well."
    * Limbaugh says "NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips."
    * Limbaugh declares basketball "the favorite sport of gangs."
    * Limbaugh invented "racial component" to Hackett's decision to withdraw from Ohio primary race.
    * Limbaugh on Survivor series: "African-American tribe" worst swimmers, Hispanics "will do things other people won't do."
    * Limbaugh suggested Colin Powell only supported Obama because of race.
    * Limbaugh: Gates is an "angry racist."
    * Limbaugh called illegal immigrants an "invasive species."
    * Limbaugh repeatedly calls Native Americans "Injuns."
    * Limbaugh says Democrats' interest in Darfur is securing black "voting bloc."
    * Limbaugh says that if "feminazis" had remembered to oppose "affirmative action for black guys ... they wouldn't face the situation they face today."

    Mr. Buttons on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Wait, are we trolling Run Cubed? I can be down with that.

    MKR on
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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    MKR wrote: »
    Sister Quoth, you know it is sin to engage the mentally challenged intellectually. It's not fair to them.

    but Brother MKR it is so enjoyable

    Quoth on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Quoth wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    Sister Quoth, you know it is sin to engage the mentally challenged intellectually. It's not fair to them.

    but Brother MKR it is so enjoyable

    Eh, we're all forgiven anyway.

    Have at it.

    MKR on
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    DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    Druhim wrote: »
    I agree with Deacon for once
    the bone in the nose comment is a pretty weak example of Rush being racist

    it's not a question of whether it was ok then, the point is you're trying to claim that he's currently racist and you're having to dig back 40 years for a comment he made as an example

    Rush is a fat windbag, but the remark in question is such old news it's no longer relevant

    it's completely relevant. it adds proof that this is nothing new to limbaugh's shtick. it shows that this is something that rush has been working with for 40+ years, and that racially charged comments aren't something he decided to add to his routine 5 years ago in the bath.

    And?

    DeaconBlues on
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    redheadredhead Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    MKR wrote: »
    Wait, are we trolling Run Cubed? I can be down with that.

    nope, people are trying to talk to him as if he were someone other than runx3

    his post history here is astonishing if only for the fact that people continue to respond to his posts with anything other than the "lol" emoticon

    redhead on
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    L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Anyway teefs isn't online so this isn't going to get interesting, I'm off to bed bye bye.


    readhead: Perhaps consider that we're perfectly aware of what he's doing and seeing into the mind of an idiot (or making him work to troll) can be interesting.

    L|ama on
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    Run Run RunRun Run Run __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    Quoth are you really that fucking dumb that you believe that if you use your resources to build something that it does not belong to you?

    Run Run Run on
    kissing.jpg
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    L|ama wrote: »
    Anyway teefs isn't online so this isn't going to get interesting, I'm off to bed bye bye.

    I think teefs is running forum silent with "hide online somethingorother" ticked.

    MKR on
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    DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    I mean the workers agreed to work there for money, not equity, right?

    Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

    DeaconBlues on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Quoth are you really that fucking dumb that you believe that if you use your resources to build something that it does not belong to you?

    Quoth is the dumbest. TWB has been telling her for years but she keeps hearing other things.

    MKR on
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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    MKR wrote: »
    Quoth are you really that fucking dumb that you believe that if you use your resources to build something that it does not belong to you?

    Quoth is the dumbest. TWB has been telling her for years but she keeps hearing other things.

    the voices are totally real

    WHY DOESN'T ANYONE BELIEVE ME

    Quoth on
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    L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    MKR wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    Anyway teefs isn't online so this isn't going to get interesting, I'm off to bed bye bye.

    I think teefs is running forum silent with "hide online somethingorother" ticked.

    Nah she's not on msn or steam or anything either

    L|ama on
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    ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Druhim wrote: »
    I agree with Deacon for once
    the bone in the nose comment is a pretty weak example of Rush being racist

    it's not a question of whether it was ok then, the point is you're trying to claim that he's currently racist and you're having to dig back 40 years for a comment he made as an example

    Rush is a fat windbag, but the remark in question is such old news it's no longer relevant

    it's completely relevant. it adds proof that this is nothing new to limbaugh's shtick. it shows that this is something that rush has been working with for 40+ years, and that racially charged comments aren't something he decided to add to his routine 5 years ago in the bath.

    Here's some more examples of his "controversial" comments
    * "We are being told that we have to hope [Obama] succeeds, that we have to bend over, grab the ankles ... because his father was black."
    * "I do believe" Obama is an "angry black guy."
    * "n Obama's America, the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering."
    * "Obama's entire economic program is reparations."
    * Obama is "more African in his roots than he is American" and is "behaving like an African colonial despot."
    * Obama is "Halfrican-American."
    * "Obama has disowned his white half ... he's decided he's got to go all in on the black side."
    * Sotomayor "a reverse racist" appointed by Obama, "the greatest living example of a reverse racist."
    * Obama "wants us to have the same health care and plan that he had in Kenya" and "wants to be the black FDR."
    * Latching onto LA Times op-ed, Limbaugh sings "Barack, The Magic Negro."
    * "God does not have a birth certificate. Neither does Obama"; Obama "has yet to prove he's a citizen."
    * Limbaugh on Gates controversy: "Here you have a black president trying to destroy a white policeman."
    * Limbaugh suggests Obama would not have acted on Somali pirates if he'd known they were "actually young, black Muslim teenagers."
    * Limbaugh suggests Democrats, media believe "you can't criticize the little black man-child."
    * "The government's been taking care of [young blacks] their whole lives."
    * "The days of [minorities] not having any power are over, and they are angry."
    * "[M]inorities never do anything for which they have to apologize."
    * Limbaugh: "The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well."
    * Limbaugh says "NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips."
    * Limbaugh declares basketball "the favorite sport of gangs."
    * Limbaugh invented "racial component" to Hackett's decision to withdraw from Ohio primary race.
    * Limbaugh on Survivor series: "African-American tribe" worst swimmers, Hispanics "will do things other people won't do."
    * Limbaugh suggested Colin Powell only supported Obama because of race.
    * Limbaugh: Gates is an "angry racist."
    * Limbaugh called illegal immigrants an "invasive species."
    * Limbaugh repeatedly calls Native Americans "Injuns."
    * Limbaugh says Democrats' interest in Darfur is securing black "voting bloc."
    * Limbaugh says that if "feminazis" had remembered to oppose "affirmative action for black guys ... they wouldn't face the situation they face today."

    I guess the bone-in-nose thing was an early example of him waaaay overstepping the mark, but from the very consistent level of stupidity in that list, it looks like he's worked out since then exactly how far he can go and get away with it and just constantly goes exactly that far.

    Butler on
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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I mean the workers agreed to work there for money, not equity, right?

    Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

    that's just what a fascist would say

    trying to keep the proletariat down

    why don't you invent a perpetual motion machine and then refuse to share it, capitalist pig-dog

    Quoth on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Quoth wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    It's a non-repressive employment in which a member of the workers holds executive power for a week, but all decisions must be approved by committee.

    something like that would never work. they'd go bankrupt sooo fast.

    why

    because a group of people are incapable of making fiscally sound decisions?

    It's a better system than moistened bints lobbing scimitars.

    Fencingsax on
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    Run Run RunRun Run Run __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    The sweat of my brow is mine, and mine alone.

    Run Run Run on
    kissing.jpg
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    The sweat of my brow is mine, and mine alone.

    You did not just go that way. Are you fucking serious?

    Fencingsax on
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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    The sweat of my brow is mine, and mine alone.

    well yeah, nobody wants your sweat

    that's gross

    unless you're robert downey jr, in which case i will drink it like gatorade

    Quoth on
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    T. J. Nutty Nub T. J. Nutty Nub Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    The sweat of my brow is mine, and mine alone.

    You're forgetting the sweat tax

    T. J. Nutty Nub on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I will use the collective brow sweat of all the world to fuel my dark empire.

    MKR on
This discussion has been closed.