In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
Why would any trans person ever want to hide it with people like you around?
Painting me as the bad guy with that logic is ridiculous. Transies hide their nature because people like me would be pissed if they hid their nature and became intimate with us?
Here's a novel thought, be honest and open about what you are. You may not think that I have a right to know if the 'girl' I'm hooking up with was born with balls, but I do.
If you're cool hooking up with gender reassignees, that's cool brah. Not. my. thing.
And so you think you're justified in assaulting someone because it's not your thing.
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
if you cannot tell by touch, taste, sight or smell that the woman in front of you is transgendered, what is your real objection? i am honestly curious. i still think that you should be made aware of the history if you are going to be seriously committed to this person as you should with other such baggage, but why is there a problem? is it that she can't bear children? should a barren woman tell you she is barren before you get serious?
If she knows she can't have children, it's something I would expect her to let me know once that sort of a situation seems possible.
NO. I DEMAND THIS ON THE FIRST DATE. AWKWARD INSTANCES WHERE SOMEONE DIVULGES AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND ASSUMES A LOT IS WHAT AH LIKE.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
Scalfin, gender and sex are not the same thing, and our culture treats different genders differently, expecting different behavior from them for them to fill different roles. People who are transitioning have to live as their gender for at least a year before getting sex reassignment surgery precisely because of these differing roles.
Edit: also because a lot of FTMs hold off on getting SRS because the results are still not that great.
And you have to go through several years of crap to convert to Judaism. You still don't get to call yourself a Jew until you get the kosher stamp.
Transgender issues and Jewish religion are different! Surprise!
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
if you cannot tell by touch, taste, sight or smell that the woman in front of you is transgendered, what is your real objection? i am honestly curious. i still think that you should be made aware of the history if you are going to be seriously committed to this person as you should with other such baggage, but why is there a problem? is it that she can't bear children? should a barren woman tell you she is barren before you get serious?
If she knows she can't have children, it's something I would expect her to let me know once that sort of a situation seems possible.
NO. I DEMAND THIS ON THE FIRST DATE. AWKWARD INSTANCES WHERE SOMEONE DIVULGES AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND ASSUMES A LOT IS WHAT AH LIKE.
That's cool... so I just figured you should know... I have a penis... and it has something to tell you... about the stock market.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Scalfin, gender and sex are not the same thing, and our culture treats different genders differently, expecting different behavior from them for them to fill different roles. People who are transitioning have to live as their gender for at least a year before getting sex reassignment surgery precisely because of these differing roles.
Edit: also because a lot of FTMs hold off on getting SRS because the results are still not that great.
And you have to go through several years of crap to convert to Judaism. You still don't get to call yourself a Jew until you get the kosher stamp.
Transgender issues and Jewish religion are different! Surprise!
Well, technically you're born Jewish unless you convert because you decide/realize later in life you're Jewish...
It seems like Deebaser is claiming that no trasgendered person should ever attempt to go out with anyone of either sex, on the off chance that they pursue someone with his sensibilities.
Unless of course they walk up to their target and say, "hi, my name's Patricia but it used to be Patrick, I hope that doesn't upset you enough not to go out with me."
but you are a woman now, in body and mind? nothing so destructive. it does not hurt anyone unless the person has prejudices against it, which is why i said it is important to talk about it before getting serious. transgendered people are not "pretending" to be a gender, it is not a game, they are not going around hoping no one finds out they are a man, they are a woman as much as i am.
Having my own biological children some day is important to me. It's not necessarily a deal breaker, but if I was dating a woman who knew that she was infertile, for any reason, and she did not tell me by the point things were progressing towards marriage, I would be rather unhappy not to have been allowed to make my own decision there. Same goes for a woman who is fertile, but does not want to have children. That's a perfectly valid choice for her, but it is not my choice, and neither of us should be expected to "give in" to the other if we do not want to.
A relationship has two people in it, and they both have a right to be informed of what the relationship is, if things are serious.
read this after my last post, and i think this is a valid concern if it is your only one regarding transgendered women.
wanting children and seeking a partner who can work towards that goal is reasonable. just saying 'well she used to have balls so no' is not. it is still one's right to have that opinion of course, but it isn't reasonable, and it is prejudiced.
Y'know, this thread had to have been started as a joke.
No, 100% genuine. I mean, I know how I feel, but I wanted to see how the rest of you guys reacted to it, and I was really curious how the debate would progress. Reading the original debate over on Feministing was infuriating. There's not much give and take over there.
It's paired with Feministe right? They tend to take, more extreme views on certain topics.
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Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
And you would assault them because...
Because when a man lies to you with that level of severity and falsely misrepresents themselves in order to 'hook up' with you, then a punch in the nose is warranted.
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
Why would any trans person ever want to hide it with people like you around?
Painting me as the bad guy with that logic is ridiculous. Transies hide their nature because people like me would be pissed if they hid their nature and became intimate with us?
Here's a novel thought, be honest and open about what you are. You may not think that I have a right to know if the 'girl' I'm hooking up with was born with balls, but I do.
If you're cool hooking up with gender reassignees, that's cool brah. Not. my. thing.
You're the one assuming she is a certain way. If its that big of a deal, you need to ask every woman you date if they were born a man.
Again, you are making assumptions and blaming others.
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Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
if you cannot tell by touch, taste, sight or smell that the woman in front of you is transgendered, what is your real objection? i am honestly curious. i still think that you should be made aware of the history if you are going to be seriously committed to this person as you should with other such baggage, but why is there a problem? is it that she can't bear children? should a barren woman tell you she is barren before you get serious?
If she knows she can't have children, it's something I would expect her to let me know once that sort of a situation seems possible.
NO. I DEMAND THIS ON THE FIRST DATE. AWKWARD INSTANCES WHERE SOMEONE DIVULGES AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND ASSUMES A LOT IS WHAT AH LIKE.
First date, no (I'm going back to the topic here, not barrenness). But before things get serious? Yes. God, yes.
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
And you would assault them because...
Because when a man lies to you with that level of severity and falsely misrepresents themselves in order to 'hook up' with you, then a punch in the nose is warranted.
Um, no one said hook up. We said that if the relationship started getting serious and you found out the other person was transgender. I mean really, when the hell do you want this, the first date?
if you cannot tell by touch, taste, sight or smell that the woman in front of you is transgendered, what is your real objection? i am honestly curious. i still think that you should be made aware of the history if you are going to be seriously committed to this person as you should with other such baggage, but why is there a problem? is it that she can't bear children? should a barren woman tell you she is barren before you get serious?
If she knows she can't have children, it's something I would expect her to let me know once that sort of a situation seems possible.
NO. I DEMAND THIS ON THE FIRST DATE. AWKWARD INSTANCES WHERE SOMEONE DIVULGES AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND ASSUMES A LOT IS WHAT AH LIKE.
First date, no (I'm going back to the topic here, not barrenness). But before things get serious? Yes. God, yes.
Or not. But at this point theoreticals concerning "society" tend to matter less.
Scalfin, gender and sex are not the same thing, and our culture treats different genders differently, expecting different behavior from them for them to fill different roles. People who are transitioning have to live as their gender for at least a year before getting sex reassignment surgery precisely because of these differing roles.
Edit: also because a lot of FTMs hold off on getting SRS because the results are still not that great.
And you have to go through several years of crap to convert to Judaism. You still don't get to call yourself a Jew until you get the kosher stamp.
Transgender issues and Jewish religion are different! Surprise!
Well, technically you're born Jewish unless you convert because you decide/realize later in life you're Jewish...
If I'm reading this right, isn't that the same as gender?
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
And you would assault them because...
Because when a man lies to you with that level of severity and falsely misrepresents themselves in order to 'hook up' with you, then a punch in the nose is warranted.
but you see, she is a woman. and you should reevaluate what warrants violence and what does not.
Y'know, this thread had to have been started as a joke.
No, 100% genuine. I mean, I know how I feel, but I wanted to see how the rest of you guys reacted to it, and I was really curious how the debate would progress. Reading the original debate over on Feministing was infuriating. There's not much give and take over there.
It's paired with Feministe right? They tend to take, more extreme views on certain topics.
If not paired, at least parallel in ideology. Very PC in every way possible. Complete rejection of gender binaries, standard gender identities - you name it. There's a lot of food for thoughts, but after a while I started to notice that some of the regulars were way too sensitive about everything - even things that weren't actually offensive.
Um, no one said hook up. We said that if the relationship started getting serious and you found out the other person was transgender. I mean really, when the hell do you want this, the first date?
Before that actually. Let's be honest here, if you knew someone was transgendered beforehand, would you ask them out?
if you cannot tell by touch, taste, sight or smell that the woman in front of you is transgendered, what is your real objection? i am honestly curious. i still think that you should be made aware of the history if you are going to be seriously committed to this person as you should with other such baggage, but why is there a problem? is it that she can't bear children? should a barren woman tell you she is barren before you get serious?
If she knows she can't have children, it's something I would expect her to let me know once that sort of a situation seems possible.
NO. I DEMAND THIS ON THE FIRST DATE. AWKWARD INSTANCES WHERE SOMEONE DIVULGES AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND ASSUMES A LOT IS WHAT AH LIKE.
I would definitely like to know before I dated someone if they were transgender. I'll put it into perspective.
Say, you have two girls you're attracted to, they're both great people and you learn they both have crushes on you. Oh wow, you get the hard decision of chosing. You can probably already see where this is going.
So you choose one of them after a lot of deliberation and go on a couple dates...then you find out she's a transgender girl, was born a male, etc. You're not into this so you guys break up.
Problem is the first girl has moved on, maybe she just decides she hates you for not picking her first, she's started dating someone else, whatever. You've lost the opportunity for a potentially good relationship.
What's the deal? You ask, you chose the one you were more attracted to, the other one has the right to feel pissy.
Well, lemme tell you, I'd date any girl who had personality of my best guy friend but I wouldn't date him.
The distaste for someone post op not telling you about the op is derivative of trust violation, not a distaste for transgender people.
Lots of important statements have been made to sum up this thread, but I think this is the most important one.
yeah, it is a good one. if it is simply a trust issue then it is very valid.
but sadly, the reaction a lot of transgendered people have to look forward to isn't 'oh i am sad you did not trust me enough to tell me this before' it is 'what the fuck you are disgusting i am not gay'
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
It seems like Deebaser is claiming that no trasgendered person should ever attempt to go out with anyone of either sex, on the off chance that they pursue someone with his sensibilities.
Unless of course they walk up to their target and say, "hi, my name's Patricia but it used to be Patrick, I hope that doesn't upset you enough not to go out with me."
Would you date a transgendered person if you knew beforehand?
Um, no one said hook up. We said that if the relationship started getting serious and you found out the other person was transgender. I mean really, when the hell do you want this, the first date?
Before that actually. Let's be honest here, if you knew someone was transgendered beforehand, would you ask them out?
Oh god no, who could ever want one of those transies!
It seems like Deebaser is claiming that no trasgendered person should ever attempt to go out with anyone of either sex, on the off chance that the person they pursue someone with his sensibilities.
Unless of course they walk up to their target and say, "hi, my name's Patricia but it used to be Patrick, I hope that doesn't upset you enough not to go out with me."
I don't know, it seems like a good idea for transgendered people to make sure their dates have full disclosure going into the date. Without that disclosure, at the very least they're risking a very awkward and uncomfortable situation. At worst, there is the real potential for violence if their date freaks out.
It seems like internet dating might be a good approach, so that the dates know what they're getting into. That, and dating people in your general pool of acquaintances who already know the situation.
The issue of honesty aside, it seems like a transgendered person is rolling the dice if they go out on a date with someone who is unaware of their status.
Modern Man on
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If not paired, at least parallel in ideology. Very PC in every way possible. Complete rejection of gender binaries, standard gender identities - you name it. There's a lot of food for thoughts, but after a while I started to notice that some of the regulars were way too sensitive about everything - even things that weren't actually offensive.
And it's worthwhile to make a note that social changes like this are, at the beginning, very insular and focused on how they will change society. When they succeed, society embraces them and changes them and all of a sudden they're closer to mainstream views, opinions and language.
I'll try and touch on most of what was brought up, sorry its kind of scattered.
hi, transgendered person here.
born with a female gender and a male sex.
the distinction is important. And i'd like to repeat, i was born with a female gender. Most trans women will tell you that they have always been female, because its true. From our point of view, the whole thing feels like just a weird birth defect... almost like a benign tumor or cleft palate or something. Surgery is just to fix a birth defect.
To say I am biologically male is really not very accurate, as the most accepted studies and theories point to the fact that my brain is physically structured like a cis-woman's (pronounced 'siss') brain. Same with trans men, their brains are physically structured like cis men.
Post op, trans women are often no different biologically than a cis woman who had a hysterectomy. The surgical techniques are VERY good and often indistinguishable from a natal vagina. Trans guys get the shaft (oh pun) on surgery unfortunately. There are a few different surgical techniques, but you generally have to choose between aesthetic, sexual sensitivity or functionality (like being able to urinate while standing). You really only get one of those things. Because of this, most trans guys will get just the top surgery and a hysterectomy.
Now, I want to clear this up. If you are not attracted to/ dont want to be in a relationship with a trans person, that is perfectly fine. This does NOT make you transphobic. I understand its a big deal for some people, thats cool, cant pick who you are attracted to. Just please, if it is a deal breaker for you, and you end up in the situation where someone you are dating or considering dating reveals they are trans, dont freak out on them. They are probably going to be in an exceedingly vulnerable state. Just be nice.
Also: if you are a guy attracted to a trans woman, it does not make you gay. So stop saying things like "I'm straight, I'm not attracted to dudes." Great... trans women are women, not dudes. They arnt trying to 'trick' you into sleeping with them. They are people, looking for real relationships.
Now, whether or not to come out to a significant other as trans. The answer is yes, absolutely I really think you should. When is a more important question, but in my mind you should come out at least before the relationship turns sexual... But really, its all about having a relationship. When you get close enough to someone, its hard to hide that large of a chunk of your life from someone. Transition, and being trans is a big deal, takes a long time, and was a huge part of shaping who you are. Sometimes its hard to even get to be good friends with someone if I havnt told them I was trans. One the same note, it is NEVER within your right to out someone else. Just dont do it. We have our reasons of when we will/how we will come out to people, please be respectful.
One major reason that people dont want to come out to partners (and others in general) is that we want to be seen as women, not trans people. There clearly is the sentiment in society that trans women are not 'real women' or whatever, so there is a LOT of pressure to not reveal trans status just so you can be seen as yourself. Its much nicer if someone gets to know me as a woman first. Revealing you are trans too soon can lead people to just look at you as a stereotype.
I think thats all I have for now
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Because when a man lies to you with that level of severity and falsely misrepresents themselves in order to 'hook up' with you, then a punch in the nose is warranted.
but you see, she is a woman. and you should reevaluate what warrants violence and what does not.
I think he meant that as "Well, I would hit a dude for lying!"
...which I think may be worse...
Chanus on
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
Painting me as the bad guy with that logic is ridiculous. Transies hide their nature because people like me would be pissed if they hid their nature and became intimate with us?
Here's a novel thought, be honest and open about what you are. You may not think that I have a right to know if the 'girl' I'm hooking up with was born with balls, but I do.
If you're cool hooking up with gender reassignees, that's cool brah. Not. my. thing.
Maybe you should calm down and stop reacting to the situations you've imagined. Or at the very least, lend some context to the things you say. When you said you'd punch a transvestite in the face when you found out, you told us nothing about the situation you imagined. There are two options.
You've spent two years dating this chick who has never taken off her panties in front of you (though you have had your tongue down her throat plenty of times) and now, all of the sudden, she drops the bomb that she used to be a dude. You get angry. Being a jerk, you punch her.
OR
You've just met this sweet girl from the coffee shop. You take her out to dinner and it looks like things are getting serious. Halfway through dinner she blushes and gets quiet. You ask her what's wrong and she says that she really likes you but she needs you to know that she used to be a man. Your blood pressure shoots through the roof. You flip over the table, screaming like the incredible hulk and deck her in the face before storming out of the restaurant.
Now, since we are talking about physical violence here, you come off as an asshole in both cases, but at least in case 1, I can see where you're coming from. But case 2 more readily comes to mind when I read your posts. THis is why people are calling you an idiot.
Donkey Kong on
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
Um, no one said hook up. We said that if the relationship started getting serious and you found out the other person was transgender. I mean really, when the hell do you want this, the first date?
Before that actually. Let's be honest here, if you knew someone was transgendered beforehand, would you ask them out?
i would, if i liked their personality and appearance. also, you act as though they are trying to pull the wool over your eyes when they are not. it isn't a joke, they like you as a woman.
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
Man, the amount of sympathy for lying in this thread is fucking ridiculous, and reveals this board's sexism
Simply put, lying (let's just put it out there, not revealing critical information about yourself to a romantic partner is lying) is okay when it's with a transgender dating an otherwise straight individual, but when a man lies to a women for the sole purposes of hooking up with her it's okay (I speak, of course, of stuff like ladder theory and PUA culture)
No. This is quite simply a double standard. And the level of cognitive dissonance in this thread is staggering
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
For the people for whom having biological children is important, would the "is my partner trans" talk not be covered by the "so, let's discuss how we feel about having children" talk? So whenever that discussion is warranted, you get both birds out of the way, so to speak?
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
It may be worth noting that disclosure ahead of time may be less hazardous than disclosure after any sort of physical intimacy has occurred... since there are unfortunately a lot of people with Deebaser's mentality running around out there.
The distaste for someone post op not telling you about the op is derivative of trust violation, not a distaste for transgender people.
Lots of important statements have been made to sum up this thread, but I think this is the most important one.
yeah, it is a good one. if it is simply a trust issue then it is very valid.
but sadly, the reaction a lot of transgendered people have to look forward to isn't 'oh i am sad you did not trust me enough to tell me this before' it is 'what the fuck you are disgusting i am not gay'
This is exactly why disclosure before things get serious is so important. And a good "people filter." If you think there's a good chance someone would feel like having sex or being involved with you was "being gay," you shouldn't be dating that person. At all.
Because when a man lies to you with that level of severity and falsely misrepresents themselves in order to 'hook up' with you, then a punch in the nose is warranted.
I don't see how.
Perhaps you could explain what exactly warrants you attacking them.
It seems like Deebaser is claiming that no trasgendered person should ever attempt to go out with anyone of either sex, on the off chance that the person they pursue someone with his sensibilities.
Unless of course they walk up to their target and say, "hi, my name's Patricia but it used to be Patrick, I hope that doesn't upset you enough not to go out with me."
I don't know, it seems like a good idea for transgendered people to make sure their dates have full disclosure going into the date. Without that disclosure, at the very least they're risking a very awkward and uncomfortable situation. At worst, there is the real potential for violence if their date freaks out.
It seems like internet dating might be a good approach, so that the dates know what they're getting into. That, and dating people in your general pool of acquaintances who already know the situation.
The issue of honesty aside, it seems like a transgendered person is rolling the dice if they go out on a date with someone who is unaware of their status.
This is true. It is unfair, but unfair doesn't make it any less true.
It seems like Deebaser is claiming that no trasgendered person should ever attempt to go out with anyone of either sex, on the off chance that the person they pursue someone with his sensibilities.
Unless of course they walk up to their target and say, "hi, my name's Patricia but it used to be Patrick, I hope that doesn't upset you enough not to go out with me."
I don't know, it seems like a good idea for transgendered people to make sure their dates have full disclosure going into the date. Without that disclosure, at the very least they're risking a very awkward and uncomfortable situation. At worst, there is the real potential for violence if their date freaks out.
It seems like internet dating might be a good approach, so that the dates know what they're getting into. That, and dating people in your general pool of acquaintances who already know the situation.
The issue of honesty aside, it seems like a transgendered person is rolling the dice if they go out on a date with someone who is unaware of their status.
but then they will usually run into people who have a kink for transgendered people. usually they get the operation to live as a normal man or woman, not to have a label on their heads forever and only be chosen because they are a kink.
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And so you think you're justified in assaulting someone because it's not your thing.
Fixt.
NO. I DEMAND THIS ON THE FIRST DATE. AWKWARD INSTANCES WHERE SOMEONE DIVULGES AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND ASSUMES A LOT IS WHAT AH LIKE.
Transgender issues and Jewish religion are different! Surprise!
That's cool... so I just figured you should know... I have a penis... and it has something to tell you... about the stock market.
Well, technically you're born Jewish unless you convert because you decide/realize later in life you're Jewish...
Unless of course they walk up to their target and say, "hi, my name's Patricia but it used to be Patrick, I hope that doesn't upset you enough not to go out with me."
wanting children and seeking a partner who can work towards that goal is reasonable. just saying 'well she used to have balls so no' is not. it is still one's right to have that opinion of course, but it isn't reasonable, and it is prejudiced.
It's paired with Feministe right? They tend to take, more extreme views on certain topics.
Because when a man lies to you with that level of severity and falsely misrepresents themselves in order to 'hook up' with you, then a punch in the nose is warranted.
Again, you are making assumptions and blaming others.
First date, no (I'm going back to the topic here, not barrenness). But before things get serious? Yes. God, yes.
Um, no one said hook up. We said that if the relationship started getting serious and you found out the other person was transgender. I mean really, when the hell do you want this, the first date?
Or not. But at this point theoreticals concerning "society" tend to matter less.
Lots of important statements have been made to sum up this thread, but I think this is the most important one.
If I'm reading this right, isn't that the same as gender?
but you see, she is a woman. and you should reevaluate what warrants violence and what does not.
If not paired, at least parallel in ideology. Very PC in every way possible. Complete rejection of gender binaries, standard gender identities - you name it. There's a lot of food for thoughts, but after a while I started to notice that some of the regulars were way too sensitive about everything - even things that weren't actually offensive.
Before that actually. Let's be honest here, if you knew someone was transgendered beforehand, would you ask them out?
I would definitely like to know before I dated someone if they were transgender. I'll put it into perspective.
Say, you have two girls you're attracted to, they're both great people and you learn they both have crushes on you. Oh wow, you get the hard decision of chosing. You can probably already see where this is going.
So you choose one of them after a lot of deliberation and go on a couple dates...then you find out she's a transgender girl, was born a male, etc. You're not into this so you guys break up.
Problem is the first girl has moved on, maybe she just decides she hates you for not picking her first, she's started dating someone else, whatever. You've lost the opportunity for a potentially good relationship.
What's the deal? You ask, you chose the one you were more attracted to, the other one has the right to feel pissy.
Well, lemme tell you, I'd date any girl who had personality of my best guy friend but I wouldn't date him.
yeah, it is a good one. if it is simply a trust issue then it is very valid.
but sadly, the reaction a lot of transgendered people have to look forward to isn't 'oh i am sad you did not trust me enough to tell me this before' it is 'what the fuck you are disgusting i am not gay'
Bingo?
Would you date a transgendered person if you knew beforehand?
Oh god no, who could ever want one of those transies!
You're disgusting.
It seems like internet dating might be a good approach, so that the dates know what they're getting into. That, and dating people in your general pool of acquaintances who already know the situation.
The issue of honesty aside, it seems like a transgendered person is rolling the dice if they go out on a date with someone who is unaware of their status.
Rigorous Scholarship
And it's worthwhile to make a note that social changes like this are, at the beginning, very insular and focused on how they will change society. When they succeed, society embraces them and changes them and all of a sudden they're closer to mainstream views, opinions and language.
hi, transgendered person here.
born with a female gender and a male sex.
the distinction is important. And i'd like to repeat, i was born with a female gender. Most trans women will tell you that they have always been female, because its true. From our point of view, the whole thing feels like just a weird birth defect... almost like a benign tumor or cleft palate or something. Surgery is just to fix a birth defect.
To say I am biologically male is really not very accurate, as the most accepted studies and theories point to the fact that my brain is physically structured like a cis-woman's (pronounced 'siss') brain. Same with trans men, their brains are physically structured like cis men.
Post op, trans women are often no different biologically than a cis woman who had a hysterectomy. The surgical techniques are VERY good and often indistinguishable from a natal vagina. Trans guys get the shaft (oh pun) on surgery unfortunately. There are a few different surgical techniques, but you generally have to choose between aesthetic, sexual sensitivity or functionality (like being able to urinate while standing). You really only get one of those things. Because of this, most trans guys will get just the top surgery and a hysterectomy.
Now, I want to clear this up. If you are not attracted to/ dont want to be in a relationship with a trans person, that is perfectly fine. This does NOT make you transphobic. I understand its a big deal for some people, thats cool, cant pick who you are attracted to. Just please, if it is a deal breaker for you, and you end up in the situation where someone you are dating or considering dating reveals they are trans, dont freak out on them. They are probably going to be in an exceedingly vulnerable state. Just be nice.
Also: if you are a guy attracted to a trans woman, it does not make you gay. So stop saying things like "I'm straight, I'm not attracted to dudes." Great... trans women are women, not dudes. They arnt trying to 'trick' you into sleeping with them. They are people, looking for real relationships.
Now, whether or not to come out to a significant other as trans. The answer is yes, absolutely I really think you should. When is a more important question, but in my mind you should come out at least before the relationship turns sexual... But really, its all about having a relationship. When you get close enough to someone, its hard to hide that large of a chunk of your life from someone. Transition, and being trans is a big deal, takes a long time, and was a huge part of shaping who you are. Sometimes its hard to even get to be good friends with someone if I havnt told them I was trans. One the same note, it is NEVER within your right to out someone else. Just dont do it. We have our reasons of when we will/how we will come out to people, please be respectful.
One major reason that people dont want to come out to partners (and others in general) is that we want to be seen as women, not trans people. There clearly is the sentiment in society that trans women are not 'real women' or whatever, so there is a LOT of pressure to not reveal trans status just so you can be seen as yourself. Its much nicer if someone gets to know me as a woman first. Revealing you are trans too soon can lead people to just look at you as a stereotype.
I think thats all I have for now
I think he meant that as "Well, I would hit a dude for lying!"
...which I think may be worse...
Maybe you should calm down and stop reacting to the situations you've imagined. Or at the very least, lend some context to the things you say. When you said you'd punch a transvestite in the face when you found out, you told us nothing about the situation you imagined. There are two options.
You've spent two years dating this chick who has never taken off her panties in front of you (though you have had your tongue down her throat plenty of times) and now, all of the sudden, she drops the bomb that she used to be a dude. You get angry. Being a jerk, you punch her.
OR
You've just met this sweet girl from the coffee shop. You take her out to dinner and it looks like things are getting serious. Halfway through dinner she blushes and gets quiet. You ask her what's wrong and she says that she really likes you but she needs you to know that she used to be a man. Your blood pressure shoots through the roof. You flip over the table, screaming like the incredible hulk and deck her in the face before storming out of the restaurant.
Now, since we are talking about physical violence here, you come off as an asshole in both cases, but at least in case 1, I can see where you're coming from. But case 2 more readily comes to mind when I read your posts. THis is why people are calling you an idiot.
i would, if i liked their personality and appearance. also, you act as though they are trying to pull the wool over your eyes when they are not. it isn't a joke, they like you as a woman.
Simply put, lying (let's just put it out there, not revealing critical information about yourself to a romantic partner is lying) is okay when it's with a transgender dating an otherwise straight individual, but when a man lies to a women for the sole purposes of hooking up with her it's okay (I speak, of course, of stuff like ladder theory and PUA culture)
No. This is quite simply a double standard. And the level of cognitive dissonance in this thread is staggering
This analogy has already stretched itself into a tangle :P
This is exactly why disclosure before things get serious is so important. And a good "people filter." If you think there's a good chance someone would feel like having sex or being involved with you was "being gay," you shouldn't be dating that person. At all.
I don't see how.
Perhaps you could explain what exactly warrants you attacking them.
This is true. It is unfair, but unfair doesn't make it any less true.
but then they will usually run into people who have a kink for transgendered people. usually they get the operation to live as a normal man or woman, not to have a label on their heads forever and only be chosen because they are a kink.