HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
edited March 2010
Also don't forget that 2e often had crazy magic resistance (90% was not uncommon), static saving throws that couldn't be mucked with, and weapon specialization for fighters giving multiple attacks at full THAC0 (meaning no cascade of failure). While mages unquestionably ruled the roost in 2e, fighters did remain relevant. In fact, high magic resistance in monsters often meant the credited strategy was for the wizard to buff the fighter and let him be the DPR.
Also, if THAC0 and lower-is-better AC really bothers you that much, it is pretty trivial to replace THAC0 with 3e-style base attack bonuses and make higher AC better. The systems are in practice identical; just subtract 2e AC and THAC0 from 20 and you have 3e AC and BABs.
Edit: Also, Player's Option: Combat and Tactics was a really good set of optional rules that make 2e more miniature-intensive and tactical. If I ever ran 2e again I would definitely want to use some stuff from that book.
2e had the coolest class kit in existence, though. It was in the Ranger book, and I cannot for the life of me remember what it was called, but at some point it turned your skin into bark, you could root your feet into the ground for 6 hours instead of sleeping/eating/drinking, you sprouted a third fucking arm in the middle of your chest (yes, triple-wielding) and your AC became 0.
Hoss.
Pinfeldorf on
0
Options
Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited March 2010
Guys, a scale of "WTFBBQ lvl 1 rogues do 2d6 sneak attack a turn!1" to Frostcheese, how broken is the Sage of Ages epic destiny from Arcane Power?
Apparently the fact that I can bank a d20 roll at the beginning of my turn seems to be causing some problems.
Guys, a scale of "WTFBBQ lvl 1 rogues do 2d6 sneak attack a turn!1" to Frostcheese, how broken is the Sage of Ages epic destiny from Arcane Power?
Apparently the fact that I can bank a d20 roll at the beginning of my turn seems to be causing some problems.
That ability is slightly better than Oath of Enmity on a single attack turn, or being a Warden when you really need to save. In any given turn, as the defender, you're probably making 2-4 d20 rolls, more if you're making a lot of area attacks.
I think it's pretty nice, but you're not healing to full on death, getting to wield larger weapons or... doing this;
Fate's Clarity (24th level): Whenever you use your majestic word power, the target can roll twice on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks and use the result he or she prefers until the start of your next turn.
Things that seem overpowered in the limited context of a few good turns at the table rarely turn out to be as obscene as you think they are when looked at long-view.
Once per turn, the first target you hit with a power that has the cold keyword gains vulnerable 5 cold after the attack. The vulnerability lasts until the end of your next turn.
Once per round, when you have combat advantage against an enemy and hit that enemy with an attack that uses a crossbow, a light blade, or a sling, the attack deals extra damage.
Guys, a scale of "WTFBBQ lvl 1 rogues do 2d6 sneak attack a turn!1" to Frostcheese, how broken is the Sage of Ages epic destiny from Arcane Power?
Apparently the fact that I can bank a d20 roll at the beginning of my turn seems to be causing some problems.
What is Frostcheese, exactly? I'm afraid I am in the fog on this term.
Frostcheese is basically a way to trigger near endless combat advantage through feats and a weapon, while getting a damage boost. As for sage of ages, in terms of epic paths, almost without exception the best path is demigod. So my advice would be to threaten people with demigod. And by threaten, I basically just mean point at demigod and then say, "seriously? More broken than that?"
Arkady on
LoL: failboattootoot
0
Options
HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
Guys, a scale of "WTFBBQ lvl 1 rogues do 2d6 sneak attack a turn!1" to Frostcheese, how broken is the Sage of Ages epic destiny from Arcane Power?
Apparently the fact that I can bank a d20 roll at the beginning of my turn seems to be causing some problems.
That ability is slightly better than Oath of Enmity on a single attack turn, or being a Warden when you really need to save. In any given turn, as the defender, you're probably making 2-4 d20 rolls, more if you're making a lot of area attacks.
I think it's pretty nice, but you're not healing to full on death, getting to wield larger weapons or... doing this;
Fate's Clarity (24th level): Whenever you use your majestic word power, the target can roll twice on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks and use the result he or she prefers until the start of your next turn.
Things that seem overpowered in the limited context of a few good turns at the table rarely turn out to be as obscene as you think they are when looked at long-view.
Well, I'm playing an arcane leader so its apparently not as bad as it could be, but the specific issue in question seem to be that I can pretty much know beforehand if I'm going to hit, particularly with a daily.
This seems to come to a forefront in the last session when I rolled an 18, cast the vorpal blade enhancement on my own weapon, and turned an attack does [w]+stat damage for each defense hit into an auto-crit.
Which... really wasn't that much but it was enough to give the striker pause.
Guys, a scale of "WTFBBQ lvl 1 rogues do 2d6 sneak attack a turn!1" to Frostcheese, how broken is the Sage of Ages epic destiny from Arcane Power?
Apparently the fact that I can bank a d20 roll at the beginning of my turn seems to be causing some problems.
What is Frostcheese, exactly? I'm afraid I am in the fog on this term.
Frostcheese is basically a way to trigger near endless combat advantage through feats and a weapon, while getting a damage boost. As for sage of ages, in terms of epic paths, almost without exception the best path is demigod. So my advice would be to threaten people with demigod. And by threaten, I basically just mean point at demigod and then say, "seriously? More broken than that?"
Frostcheese is actually not inherently broken.
What breaks frostcheese is multiple attacks, where you stack an extra +5 damage on each attack. Make another 3-4 attacks in a row and that vulnerability stacks up to a pretty big chunk of extra damage. The combat advantage is just icing on a delicious cake, helping you get that DPR up.
Frostcheese is being fully addressed next update, so it can apply the cold vulnerability 1/round or a similar limitation.
I was bored at work and came up with a couple of ideas for smokeable magic items:
Dust of Coughing and Hacking and Slashing - Consumable Magic Item
When inhaled deeply (Standard Action), this substance causes the user to begin coughing uncontrollably, rendering them slowed (save ends). This coughing and hacking becomes hacking and slashing as axes and swords formed from smoke emerge to attack every creature within a blast 3. In addition, when the user fails his save to end the slowed condition inflicted by this item, every creature adjacent to the user takes Constitution modifier damage as smaller swords and axes pour from his mouth.
Gorgon Grass (Pipeweed of Stoning) - Consumable Magic Item
When inhaled deeply (Standard Action), this substance causes the user to become slowed and dazed until the end of his next turn as his thoughts slow to a crawl. In addition, the user may make an attack against Fortitude with a range of 3 to blow smoke at a nearby creature. The creature is slowed on a hit (save ends), a condition which is replaced with immobilization (save ends) should the creature fail its saving throw against being slowed. Should the creature fails its save against immobilization while bloodied it becomes petrified.
I can't recall off-hand, but are there any sort of powers that a PC can use (magic item or otherwise) to petrify an enemy? I'm trying to find a way to balance the positive effects of Gorgon Grass, but I'm not sure if it's the sort of thing than can be balanced in 4E.
Hexmage-PA on
0
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
so it can apply the cold vulnerability 1/round or a similar limitation.
That change went into effect on 2/8/10.
No, what I mean is the cold vulnerability ends when you hit the target next and you can only apply it 1/round (it doesn't last until the end of your next turn). So it will give you a +5 bonus and combat advantage to your next attack, but not to all six attacks you make.
The new "Class Acts: Wizard" is awesome. Why? Because the powers included allow you to summon up a dretch, vrock, or even a balor of your very own! It also introduces rules for what a summon does if you don't command it, as well as a bonus the creature grants you for commanding it well.
There's a weird error present throughout the article, though. Take a look at this, for example:
You deal 1d6 extra fire damage with close and area
attacks, and each creature that hits you with melee attacks
takes 1d6 fire damage. While the summoned hell hound
is present, you deal 1d6 extra fire damage with close and
area attacks, and each creature that hits you with melee
attacks takes 1d6 fire damage.
This happens several times. It's like they wanted to change the wording of the power and forgot to remove what they had originally.
BTW, the flavor text for "Summon Succubus" reveals that succubi like to appear in "a puff of perfumed brimstone".
Hexmage-PA on
0
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
Actually rules for summons doing things outside of their turns was already established with druid summons.
What is up with Shadar-Kai not having any good rogue feats? I feel like this needs to be remedied especially since they are now prime candidates for cunning sneak.
Shoggoth on
0
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
So the new wizards article is awesome, really good stuff except for the succubus. A level 9 summon with an at-will dominate that you can use for an entire encounter. Best of all it won't target allies with its intrinsic actions and is basically 4Es very first "Get hit and die" spell. This spell basically immediately makes any solo utterly irrelevant, plus it can easily break any group of monsters due to the at-will encounter length dominate effect.
This does make a summoner wizard an instantly painted "KILL ME NOW" though.
Rogue Modrons weren't nearly so bad before they produced the character race version of them. The actual Rogue Modron NPCs in the game were interesting rather than horrifying.
Also the PC race wasn't nearly as bad if you just refrained from having game-ruining actions.
A Modron that always winks when a kiss is blown to it, ALWAYS, every time, is fine.
Incenjucar on
0
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I am serious. The Succubus is a daily, but while she's around her standard action is an at-will ranged 5 dominate. If you don't give her an action, she shifts one and still makes her at-will dominate against an enemy. So she'll be dominating something regardless of if the summoner has actions.
It's by far the most broken power published in 4E. Worst of all, once you get to epic if the Summoner goes for the right PP and epic destiny, I think you could get the power up to four times a day.
Four encounters with at-will dominate? Why thank you.
I am serious. The Succubus is a daily, but while she's around her standard action is an at-will ranged 5 dominate. If you don't give her an action, she shifts one and still makes her at-will dominate against an enemy. So she'll be dominating something regardless of if the summoner has actions.
It's by far the most broken power published in 4E. Worst of all, once you get to epic if the Summoner goes for the right PP and epic destiny, I think you could get the power up to four times a day.
Four encounters with at-will dominate? Why thank you.
If it's on auto pilot it also dazes you. But still, whacky.
SlickShughes on
0
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
Dominate is a good exchange for daze, especially when by RAW you're going to get the dominated creatures action anyway. So you're not missing out on an attack that round.
I'm still not sure what LFR is but I am sure that I don't want to have anything to do with it.
Living Forgotten Realms, it's basically an officially sanctioned way of playing DnD with different DMs and groups. It's especially good for people who can't play with the same group of people regularly. Unfortunately in LFR, they use strict RAW, no houserules and whatever is published is legal. When something absurd like this comes out, LFR DMs are stuck with it. I did run some LFR for a while and I remember being amazed at some of the things I saw. I kinda miss it, but I have enough effort with my own games to run LFR as well so I stopped that.
Just make it so that every encounter with a Wizard with that power, there are also 2 (appropriately levelled) brains in jars! So you get to play the players, and they get to play the monsters!
hippofant on
0
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Just make it so that every encounter with a Wizard with that power, there are also 2 (appropriately levelled) brains in jars! So you get to play the players, and they get to play the monsters!
Actually what could happen is:
Wizard summons succubus. Succubus dominates Brain in a Jar. Brain in a Jar uses its at-will dominate to dominate Brain in a Jar. Confusion occurs, because nobody has any idea what happens at this point but we could assume that the PC can control the dominated creatures action. In the other scenario depending on if the dominated brain in a jar can make up his mind as to what his dominated brain in a jar ally does, he obviously dominates the wizard who summoned the succubus originally.
The glorious cycle is completed. With every one of the creatures involved having successfully dominated one another in a steamy three way domination.
Just make it so that every encounter with a Wizard with that power, there are also 2 (appropriately levelled) brains in jars! So you get to play the players, and they get to play the monsters!
Actually what could happen is:
Wizard summons succubus. Succubus dominates Brain in a Jar. Brain in a Jar uses its at-will dominate to dominate Brain in a Jar. Confusion occurs, because nobody has any idea what happens at this point but we could assume that the PC can control the dominated creatures action. In the other scenario depending on if the dominated brain in a jar can make up his mind as to what his dominated brain in a jar ally does, he obviously dominates the wizard who summoned the succubus originally.
The glorious cycle is completed. With every one of the creatures involved having successfully dominated one another in a steamy three way domination.
Since Brain In A Jar domination is save ends, if the succubus misses its next dominate, then 1 Brain In A Jar might have another Brain In A Jar on its side dominated without having done the domination in the first place.
Or even better, if I were a wizard, I'd have the dominated Brain In A Jar dominated the second Brain In A Jar which then dominates the first Brain In A Jar, then argue since the two Brains In Jars are dominating each other, they fall into a synaptic feedback loop and explode.
(Can something be dominated by two different sources simultaneously?
Actually, can something be grabbed by two different sources simultaneously? We've hit that in our group a few times already too...)
Actually, can something be grabbed by two different sources simultaneously? We've hit that in our group a few times already too...)
I've seen it happen in real life, I don't see why it can't happen in D&D.
Although, I'd venture to guess it only takes a single successful escape to leave both grabs, but I'd make that single check against the more difficult DC.
Pinfeldorf on
0
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Actually, can something be grabbed by two different sources simultaneously? We've hit that in our group a few times already too...)
I've seen it happen in real life, I don't see why it can't happen in D&D.
Although, I'd venture to guess it only takes a single successful escape to leave both grabs, but I'd make that single check against the more difficult DC.
Correct, if you're grabbed by multiple creatures you make your check against the strongest creature (it's just like any other condition where you're affected by multiple versions of it). Noting that for effects, you count as being grabbed by all the creatures in question. But one roll and if you roll high enough you break the grabs of the creatures you escape against. Noting you cannot get the free shift unless you break all of them.
At least this is the way I've ruled it and it seems to work well enough.
And believe me, I'm a DM who loves his tentacles. If you know what I mean.
Or even better, if I were a wizard, I'd have the dominated Brain In A Jar dominated the second Brain In A Jar which then dominates the first Brain In A Jar, then argue since the two Brains In Jars are dominating each other, they fall into a synaptic feedback loop and explode.
Posts
Also, if THAC0 and lower-is-better AC really bothers you that much, it is pretty trivial to replace THAC0 with 3e-style base attack bonuses and make higher AC better. The systems are in practice identical; just subtract 2e AC and THAC0 from 20 and you have 3e AC and BABs.
Edit: Also, Player's Option: Combat and Tactics was a really good set of optional rules that make 2e more miniature-intensive and tactical. If I ever ran 2e again I would definitely want to use some stuff from that book.
Hoss.
Apparently the fact that I can bank a d20 roll at the beginning of my turn seems to be causing some problems.
I think it's pretty nice, but you're not healing to full on death, getting to wield larger weapons or... doing this;
Things that seem overpowered in the limited context of a few good turns at the table rarely turn out to be as obscene as you think they are when looked at long-view.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
What is Frostcheese, exactly? I'm afraid I am in the fog on this term.
At least, I think that's what it is.
Frostcheese is basically a way to trigger near endless combat advantage through feats and a weapon, while getting a damage boost. As for sage of ages, in terms of epic paths, almost without exception the best path is demigod. So my advice would be to threaten people with demigod. And by threaten, I basically just mean point at demigod and then say, "seriously? More broken than that?"
LoL: failboattootoot
Not hard is very different than constantly have.
Well, I'm playing an arcane leader so its apparently not as bad as it could be, but the specific issue in question seem to be that I can pretty much know beforehand if I'm going to hit, particularly with a daily.
This seems to come to a forefront in the last session when I rolled an 18, cast the vorpal blade enhancement on my own weapon, and turned an attack does [w]+stat damage for each defense hit into an auto-crit.
Which... really wasn't that much but it was enough to give the striker pause.
Frostcheese is actually not inherently broken.
What breaks frostcheese is multiple attacks, where you stack an extra +5 damage on each attack. Make another 3-4 attacks in a row and that vulnerability stacks up to a pretty big chunk of extra damage. The combat advantage is just icing on a delicious cake, helping you get that DPR up.
Frostcheese is being fully addressed next update, so it can apply the cold vulnerability 1/round or a similar limitation.
That change went into effect on 2/8/10.
Dust of Coughing and Hacking and Slashing - Consumable Magic Item
When inhaled deeply (Standard Action), this substance causes the user to begin coughing uncontrollably, rendering them slowed (save ends). This coughing and hacking becomes hacking and slashing as axes and swords formed from smoke emerge to attack every creature within a blast 3. In addition, when the user fails his save to end the slowed condition inflicted by this item, every creature adjacent to the user takes Constitution modifier damage as smaller swords and axes pour from his mouth.
Gorgon Grass (Pipeweed of Stoning) - Consumable Magic Item
When inhaled deeply (Standard Action), this substance causes the user to become slowed and dazed until the end of his next turn as his thoughts slow to a crawl. In addition, the user may make an attack against Fortitude with a range of 3 to blow smoke at a nearby creature. The creature is slowed on a hit (save ends), a condition which is replaced with immobilization (save ends) should the creature fail its saving throw against being slowed. Should the creature fails its save against immobilization while bloodied it becomes petrified.
I can't recall off-hand, but are there any sort of powers that a PC can use (magic item or otherwise) to petrify an enemy? I'm trying to find a way to balance the positive effects of Gorgon Grass, but I'm not sure if it's the sort of thing than can be balanced in 4E.
No, what I mean is the cold vulnerability ends when you hit the target next and you can only apply it 1/round (it doesn't last until the end of your next turn). So it will give you a +5 bonus and combat advantage to your next attack, but not to all six attacks you make.
There's a weird error present throughout the article, though. Take a look at this, for example:
This happens several times. It's like they wanted to change the wording of the power and forgot to remove what they had originally.
BTW, the flavor text for "Summon Succubus" reveals that succubi like to appear in "a puff of perfumed brimstone".
"they'll be dying to get into your lower planes"
Ok, if this wasn't CF, I'd report it for awesome.
Horseshoe you are the best.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
This does make a summoner wizard an instantly painted "KILL ME NOW" though.
--
Rogue Modrons weren't nearly so bad before they produced the character race version of them. The actual Rogue Modron NPCs in the game were interesting rather than horrifying.
Also the PC race wasn't nearly as bad if you just refrained from having game-ruining actions.
A Modron that always winks when a kiss is blown to it, ALWAYS, every time, is fine.
Record.
Wait what.
Are you serious?
I am serious. The Succubus is a daily, but while she's around her standard action is an at-will ranged 5 dominate. If you don't give her an action, she shifts one and still makes her at-will dominate against an enemy. So she'll be dominating something regardless of if the summoner has actions.
It's by far the most broken power published in 4E. Worst of all, once you get to epic if the Summoner goes for the right PP and epic destiny, I think you could get the power up to four times a day.
Four encounters with at-will dominate? Why thank you.
If it's on auto pilot it also dazes you. But still, whacky.
Or just pick nothing but monsters with retarded high Will Defenses? Eh?!
Living Forgotten Realms.
Organized play that HAS to follow the rules. All of them.
Living Forgotten Realms.
All RAW all the time.
Living Forgotten Realms, it's basically an officially sanctioned way of playing DnD with different DMs and groups. It's especially good for people who can't play with the same group of people regularly. Unfortunately in LFR, they use strict RAW, no houserules and whatever is published is legal. When something absurd like this comes out, LFR DMs are stuck with it. I did run some LFR for a while and I remember being amazed at some of the things I saw. I kinda miss it, but I have enough effort with my own games to run LFR as well so I stopped that.
Actually what could happen is:
Wizard summons succubus. Succubus dominates Brain in a Jar. Brain in a Jar uses its at-will dominate to dominate Brain in a Jar. Confusion occurs, because nobody has any idea what happens at this point but we could assume that the PC can control the dominated creatures action. In the other scenario depending on if the dominated brain in a jar can make up his mind as to what his dominated brain in a jar ally does, he obviously dominates the wizard who summoned the succubus originally.
The glorious cycle is completed. With every one of the creatures involved having successfully dominated one another in a steamy three way domination.
Since Brain In A Jar domination is save ends, if the succubus misses its next dominate, then 1 Brain In A Jar might have another Brain In A Jar on its side dominated without having done the domination in the first place.
Or even better, if I were a wizard, I'd have the dominated Brain In A Jar dominated the second Brain In A Jar which then dominates the first Brain In A Jar, then argue since the two Brains In Jars are dominating each other, they fall into a synaptic feedback loop and explode.
(Can something be dominated by two different sources simultaneously?
Actually, can something be grabbed by two different sources simultaneously? We've hit that in our group a few times already too...)
I've seen it happen in real life, I don't see why it can't happen in D&D.
Although, I'd venture to guess it only takes a single successful escape to leave both grabs, but I'd make that single check against the more difficult DC.
Correct, if you're grabbed by multiple creatures you make your check against the strongest creature (it's just like any other condition where you're affected by multiple versions of it). Noting that for effects, you count as being grabbed by all the creatures in question. But one roll and if you roll high enough you break the grabs of the creatures you escape against. Noting you cannot get the free shift unless you break all of them.
At least this is the way I've ruled it and it seems to work well enough.
And believe me, I'm a DM who loves his tentacles. If you know what I mean.
Oh god, that is such an hilarious concept.
"I am dominating you!"
"NO!!! I AM DOMINATING YOU!!"
"NO U"
etc.