Touched by the Light. Necessary Prot tanking talent, or something pretty optional? I've been seeing a lot of tanks around lately without it.
Wait what?
Where have you been seeing them, and have they actually been holding threat?
One of my guild's tank Paladins (this gibbering retard) doesn't have it, and when I called him on it, he was all "Well uh I made my spec based on inspecting a lot of ICC tanking Pallies on our realm and none of them have it." So I decided to check the validity of that assertion.
I can't verify whether or not he holds threat, but I do know I can outdamage him on my Disc priest while healing.
Okay, yeah, he went full re...er silly goose.
His build isn't even a good PVE build. It looks like some versions of a PVP build I've seen, only worse.
3/3 Stoicism? No
1/5 Bendiction? No
5/5 Reckoning? No
2/2 Spiritual Attunement? No
0/1 Divine Sacrifice and thus 0/2 Divine Guardian? No
0/3 Touched By the Light? No
Glyph of Consecration in a tanking spec? No.
I'm going to ignore the fact too that he's got exactly one enchant on all of his gear, and no belt buckle.
If I was an officer in your guild, I'd bench him until he's proved he did his homework on Maintankadin.
...Why in god's name would you not use Holy Shield? It's one of the cheaper moves we have as I recall. I would have to guess that his threat is kind of mediocre if he's not doing a full rotation and he doesn't have Touched by the Light.
Edit regarding the above two posts: Wow, your realm is special, koro.
And yeah, based on Nobody's findings, it would appear that he only has the slightest inklings of what he's doing. 3/3 Stoicism is bad, 1/5 Benediction is pretty damn pointless, 5/5 Reckoning is very bad, 2/2 Spiritual Attunement is fairly unnecessary and you *never* Glyph Consecrate as a Prot Pally. But even barring that, one whole enchantment on his gear? How exactly did he get in with that, even if the ones in charge didn't know the in and outs of proper Prot Pallying?
The 2/2 Spiritual Attunement and 1/5 Benediction just reminds me of the couple of Prot Pallies I've run across when I'm on my other characters that are absolutely paranoid of running out of mana. I had a Prot Pally with 2/2 SA and 5/5 Benediction using Seal of Wisdom in Heroic Pit of Saron. Obviously he wasn't holding threat very well from our higher DPSers and I told him he should use Corruption or Command or something and he started bitching about running out of mana because the healer (me) wasn't healing him enough. I don't know if he was around back when overheals still gave mana via SA or not, but they don't now so I could only heal him if he was actually hurt.
So I started running through my usual suggestions and comments to Pally tanks, telling him his majority of mana regen doesn't come from SA anyway, it's Sanct and rolling Divine Plea, which I'm not sure he was using at all. He was still fairly stubborn but we made it through the rest of the instance anyway as I recall.
I actually should respec and move a single point over from Conviction into Seal of Command, since I don't have it currently. Honestly though I just use Corruption for dungeon runs because most of the time I forget to switch seals for bosses and back anyway.
That and I'm using the Ret Libram for the 200 extra strength on Corruption ticks anyway, so I'd lose out on that.
I've thought about getting a Strength Greatness for either my Pally or DK, but so far haven't done it. Would be a nice boost while tanking either way though.
For that matter, my DK has the Sigil for 200 Strength off of any of the main spec abilities... Death Strikes, Obliterates and Scourge Strikes I think? I think the only tanking Sigil my DK has is the 53 Defense rating on Icy Touch one. I'm not sure if my Pally has ever had a tanking libram above the Burning Crusade era actually, the Ret one might've been the first one I got when I hit 80.
I prefer the threat-based relics on my (DK) tank to the dodge one as well. I'm sure I'd do the same on my paladin if she had a prot spec. I do carry the 245 dodge sigil in my bags, but I haven't equipped in it months. If there were more fights where it felt like the ~3% extra dodge would actually make a difference, I'd probably use it more, but I can't really think of any.
Question about pvp prot weapons. The 1800 rating weapons have high dps, good defensive stats, and whatnot, but a shitload of AP, which is completely worthless. They are also super slow. In anyone who's experienced in the subject's opinion, are they worth going for? For use only in pvp, obviousy. My current weapon is from naxx 10.
Considering you're talking about something like a 40-50 ilevel upgrade, yes, it's worth it for PvP prot. And unless something has changed in the past few months, you want a slow weapon for PvP prot anyway.
Question about pvp prot weapons. The 1800 rating weapons have high dps, good defensive stats, and whatnot, but a shitload of AP, which is completely worthless. They are also super slow. In anyone who's experienced in the subject's opinion, are they worth going for? For use only in pvp, obviousy. My current weapon is from naxx 10.
Considering you're talking about something like a 40-50 ilevel upgrade, yes, it's worth it for PvP prot. And unless something has changed in the past few months, you want a slow weapon for PvP prot anyway.
That was a typo. Its from ICC 10. My shield is from Naxx.
So, its like, a 1 tier upgrade. With a useless stat, but otherwise better overall stats.
I haven't really tried using slow weapons in pvp though, since my best weapon is fast.
I use 5/5 Reckoning on my Paladin right now, but he's level 47 and it helps out his soloing quite a bit. I plan on ditching it once I get up in levels, though.
But yeah, as far as that Paladin is concerned, it looks like he's been examining a bunch of PvP prot Paladins to get a spec. We don't really let him tank anything, and he's only really in the guild because he's RL friends with a couple of our better raiders (they don't really even like him either). He's a decent player when he's not hopped up on goofballs and stoned out of his gourd or yelling at his mother to bring him more hot dogs, but ugh. So little gets through to him.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Question about pvp prot weapons. The 1800 rating weapons have high dps, good defensive stats, and whatnot, but a shitload of AP, which is completely worthless. They are also super slow. In anyone who's experienced in the subject's opinion, are they worth going for? For use only in pvp, obviousy. My current weapon is from naxx 10.
Considering you're talking about something like a 40-50 ilevel upgrade, yes, it's worth it for PvP prot. And unless something has changed in the past few months, you want a slow weapon for PvP prot anyway.
That was a typo. Its from ICC 10. My shield is from Naxx.
So, its like, a 1 tier upgrade. With a useless stat, but otherwise better overall stats.
I haven't really tried using slow weapons in pvp though, since my best weapon is fast.
What weapon are you talking about then? Chances are not every stat on it is ideal for PvP either. And AP isn't worthless or useless, anyway. It's not great, no, but it's not like it's doing nothing like if you were a caster. I'd suspect a 13 ilevel upgrade (assuming that's what you're looking at) slow PvP weapon would be better than what you're using.
Of course your weapon as PvP prot isn't as big of a deal as it is for, say, ret.
Of course, have to get 1800 rating first, but my team's been doing really well the last couple of weeks. Thing is, its a luxury so I'm curious how much of an upgrade it would be in effect. I don't arena as prot.
I've actually been considering switching to prot for 5v5s. I'm not sure as to the effectiveness or lackthereof. My only experience with it is the one time we fought a team that had a prot paladin. They won.
Its basically, a bunch of really useful abilities vs.....slightly more dps as ret.
Paladins get SP and AP from Str, right?
And I think I'm right in saying that we generate most (like 99%) of our threat via holy damage.
So if I'm having problems with aggro, should I gem for str/stam?
Nothing in your armory is striking me as being an issue (maybe the +50 attack power on the weapon).
What situations are you running into where you are losing aggro? Are you adhering to 696?
EDIT: The only other problem I see is the use of the Righteous Defense glyph over the Glyph of Vengeance, but it looks like you have Seal of Command so I think it's safe to say you're primarily using that in heroics.
Its usually in a raid situation that I have problems keeping aggro, as well as occasionally in heroics, if the DPS massively outgear me.
The +50ap was just put on there by a friend, thinking I might get a titanium weapon chain, maybe look around for mongoose I suppose.
I'm really thinking of dropping SoComm, since when I use that I find I generate alot less threat in general. So drop Righteous Def glyph for the Vengeance one?
Its usually in a raid situation that I have problems keeping aggro, as well as occasionally in heroics, if the DPS massively outgear me.
The +50ap was just put on there by a friend, thinking I might get a titanium weapon chain, maybe look around for mongoose I suppose.
I'm really thinking of dropping SoComm, since when I use that I find I generate alot less threat in general. So drop Righteous Def glyph for the Vengeance one?
Hmm, the big thing is I'm not really seeing any red flags that should be preventing you from holding threat. The only things that come to mind at this point are:
1. Forgetting RF
2. Not following 969
3. Hunters or Rogues screwing around and misdirecting other DPS to get them killed.
What seals does a paladin tank use? Is it corruption for single, powerful enemies and command for many? Or should a raid tank even have command?
There's an argument for paladins doing mainly heroics to pick up command since it's all an AoE fest. On mine I just use Corruption (Vengeance for the Alliance pallies) and rarely run into problems.
Oh by the way, that Paladin I mentioned in the last couple of pages? He's actually completely changed his spec and went through a ton of effort to get better-geared and play smarter (he's still a gibbering retard every now and again, though), and he's actually becoming quite a good tank. We took him to Ony10 the other day and, aside from turning around and running to the wall the first time with his back to Ony (he lived though), he didn't miss a single beat.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
So my little Prot Pally is finally approaching 80. Originally, I was planning on tanking, but my guild has a glut of tanks and a shortage of healers - particularly pally healers - so I guess I'll be going Holy.
I haven't raided Holy since BWL. Other than "spam HL instead of FoL," what do I need to know?
Yeah.. i should probably switch.
I've had that FoL glyph since I dinged 80 over a year ago, before the BoL glyph existed. I think even back then I had almost 55% holy crit chance.
Ok, I just picked up the Breastplate of the White Knight on my paladin. Would it be better to gem straight stam, or to try and go for the socket bonus? Assume defense capped.
For tanking, don't bother with set bonuses unless it's a significant chunk of stam. I wouldn't bother even trying to match a set bonus on an item with 3 sockets in it in the current environment.
I picked up all of the crafted caster/healer stuff that I could afford and I will be picking up the Argent Crusade helm and ring this afternoon after work. I know a lot of what I'm wearing isn't plate, but I figure if I'm getting beat on something has already gone terribly wrong anyway so a couple thousand armor won't make a huge difference.
Anyway, I'm just looking for some advice/thoughts/criticisms of my setup so far.
Posts
Okay, yeah, he went full re...er silly goose.
His build isn't even a good PVE build. It looks like some versions of a PVP build I've seen, only worse.
3/3 Stoicism? No
1/5 Bendiction? No
5/5 Reckoning? No
2/2 Spiritual Attunement? No
0/1 Divine Sacrifice and thus 0/2 Divine Guardian? No
0/3 Touched By the Light? No
Glyph of Consecration in a tanking spec? No.
I'm going to ignore the fact too that he's got exactly one enchant on all of his gear, and no belt buckle.
If I was an officer in your guild, I'd bench him until he's proved he did his homework on Maintankadin.
Edit regarding the above two posts: Wow, your realm is special, koro.
And yeah, based on Nobody's findings, it would appear that he only has the slightest inklings of what he's doing. 3/3 Stoicism is bad, 1/5 Benediction is pretty damn pointless, 5/5 Reckoning is very bad, 2/2 Spiritual Attunement is fairly unnecessary and you *never* Glyph Consecrate as a Prot Pally. But even barring that, one whole enchantment on his gear? How exactly did he get in with that, even if the ones in charge didn't know the in and outs of proper Prot Pallying?
So I started running through my usual suggestions and comments to Pally tanks, telling him his majority of mana regen doesn't come from SA anyway, it's Sanct and rolling Divine Plea, which I'm not sure he was using at all. He was still fairly stubborn but we made it through the rest of the instance anyway as I recall.
That and I'm using the Ret Libram for the 200 extra strength on Corruption ticks anyway, so I'd lose out on that.
I run that and Greatness. +500 strength? Fuck yes.
For that matter, my DK has the Sigil for 200 Strength off of any of the main spec abilities... Death Strikes, Obliterates and Scourge Strikes I think? I think the only tanking Sigil my DK has is the 53 Defense rating on Icy Touch one. I'm not sure if my Pally has ever had a tanking libram above the Burning Crusade era actually, the Ret one might've been the first one I got when I hit 80.
That was a typo. Its from ICC 10. My shield is from Naxx.
So, its like, a 1 tier upgrade. With a useless stat, but otherwise better overall stats.
I haven't really tried using slow weapons in pvp though, since my best weapon is fast.
I use 5/5 Reckoning on my Paladin right now, but he's level 47 and it helps out his soloing quite a bit. I plan on ditching it once I get up in levels, though.
But yeah, as far as that Paladin is concerned, it looks like he's been examining a bunch of PvP prot Paladins to get a spec. We don't really let him tank anything, and he's only really in the guild because he's RL friends with a couple of our better raiders (they don't really even like him either). He's a decent player when he's not hopped up on goofballs and stoned out of his gourd or yelling at his mother to bring him more hot dogs, but ugh. So little gets through to him.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
What sort of pvp prot paladin doesn't take the primary DPS talent for prot?
Of course your weapon as PvP prot isn't as big of a deal as it is for, say, ret.
Of course, have to get 1800 rating first, but my team's been doing really well the last couple of weeks. Thing is, its a luxury so I'm curious how much of an upgrade it would be in effect. I don't arena as prot.
Its basically, a bunch of really useful abilities vs.....slightly more dps as ret.
Paladins get SP and AP from Str, right?
And I think I'm right in saying that we generate most (like 99%) of our threat via holy damage.
So if I'm having problems with aggro, should I gem for str/stam?
Nothing in your armory is striking me as being an issue (maybe the +50 attack power on the weapon).
What situations are you running into where you are losing aggro? Are you adhering to 696?
EDIT: The only other problem I see is the use of the Righteous Defense glyph over the Glyph of Vengeance, but it looks like you have Seal of Command so I think it's safe to say you're primarily using that in heroics.
The +50ap was just put on there by a friend, thinking I might get a titanium weapon chain, maybe look around for mongoose I suppose.
I'm really thinking of dropping SoComm, since when I use that I find I generate alot less threat in general. So drop Righteous Def glyph for the Vengeance one?
Hmm, the big thing is I'm not really seeing any red flags that should be preventing you from holding threat. The only things that come to mind at this point are:
1. Forgetting RF
2. Not following 969
3. Hunters or Rogues screwing around and misdirecting other DPS to get them killed.
There's an argument for paladins doing mainly heroics to pick up command since it's all an AoE fest. On mine I just use Corruption (Vengeance for the Alliance pallies) and rarely run into problems.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I haven't raided Holy since BWL. Other than "spam HL instead of FoL," what do I need to know?
int
Put up Seal of Wisdom.
Follow Langly's advice.
Judge when it's off cooldown and you can spare a GCD.
???
Profit
I've had that FoL glyph since I dinged 80 over a year ago, before the BoL glyph existed. I think even back then I had almost 55% holy crit chance.
Thanks.
Ralieth
I picked up all of the crafted caster/healer stuff that I could afford and I will be picking up the Argent Crusade helm and ring this afternoon after work. I know a lot of what I'm wearing isn't plate, but I figure if I'm getting beat on something has already gone terribly wrong anyway so a couple thousand armor won't make a huge difference.
Anyway, I'm just looking for some advice/thoughts/criticisms of my setup so far.
I look for a minimum of 12 myself, and only when I'd have to change only one gem to a color other than blue (usually a red one).
The threshold is, generally, 9 stam if using blue gems but 12 if using epic gems.
Vengeance with Glyph of Vengeance/Corruption for bosses.
Command for trash or add fights.
I think Command is worth it but I am not doing bleeding edge raiding.
I took the Crusade spec 0/53/18 and took the 1% crit from conviction for Command