I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Make it easier to enter this country, go after the employers who employ people under the table after the fact. Stop letting xenophobic policies and scary brown people dominate the debate.
this right here
Thanks. Was just interested in what people thought outside of "RACISM GARBLGARBLGARBL"
Some things you buy off Amazon are actually from private stores. Similar to Ebay. So it may not be directly from Amazon, but from Joe Dickson in Alabama who owns his own store and uses Amazon.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Making it legal.
naturalization? is that a possibility?
We usually call it "amnesty."
It's generally considered to be a far-left-wing idea and is not seriously on the table.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
What I hate is that in typical conservative fashion the debate is either "PAPERS PLEASE!" or "OPEN THE BORDER EVERYONE COME ON IN!" They don't understand nuance, and use so much weasel framing to try and trap you saying shit you didn't say. The entire debate is against a straw man.
When you bring up the potential for abuse they pretend like having to sue the police for wrongful imprisonment is super easy and anyone can do it. Need we forget in maricopa when you are arrested you get tossed into a prison where you can potentially die from poor conditions. So good luck getting your chance to sue!
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
the proper recourse for people in the US illegally who are not the victims of some crime (because that complicates stuff, a lot) should be deported to their home countries. The agencies actually in charge of this should be delicate about the matter and should handle it, well, in large part like they have been. These are not the local police. In fact, the local police should not be involved at all especially as (and this is the important bit) it is not a crime.
People don't seem to grasp that last bit in the least.
This is why I prefer calling them "undocumented immigrants" rather than "illegal immigrants."
Calling them 'illegal' just reinforces the notion that it's criminal.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Are the books coming straight from Amazon itself, or all the used/new resellers that list on Amazon?
I'm definitely ordering from other companies.
5 books from one and 2 from the other.
In the past shipping would be combined relative to the store I'm buying from. I should pay shipping on the order of 5 books and then pay shipping on the other order of 2 books from another store.
But it's wanting me to pay shipping on each individual book.
Sheep on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Making it legal.
naturalization? is that a possibility?
We usually call it "amnesty."
It's generally considered to be a far-left-wing idea and is not seriously on the table.
If by far-left-wing you mean signed into law by Reagan...then yes.
Thomamelas on
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
jail, preach.
The prisons (where people who have been convicted of crimes are) are actually much nicer.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
the proper recourse for people in the US illegally who are not the victims of some crime (because that complicates stuff, a lot) should be deported to their home countries. The agencies actually in charge of this should be delicate about the matter and should handle it, well, in large part like they have been. These are not the local police. In fact, the local police should not be involved at all especially as (and this is the important bit) it is not a crime.
People don't seem to grasp that last bit in the least.
This is why I prefer calling them "undocumented immigrants" rather than "illegal immigrants."
Calling them 'illegal' just reinforces the notion that it's criminal.
Good point. Cause when I was responding in the thread I kept typing "illegal" thinking, wth. It's illegal, so that's why they're bitching like the racists they are.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Making it legal.
naturalization? is that a possibility?
We usually call it "amnesty."
It's generally considered to be a far-left-wing idea and is not seriously on the table.
I would have guessed. And open borders isn't such an awesome idea just yet either.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Making it legal.
naturalization? is that a possibility?
We usually call it "amnesty."
It's generally considered to be a far-left-wing idea and is not seriously on the table.
If by far-left-wing you mean signed into law by Reagan...then yes.
so what happens if an American forgets his/her ID at home?
lol sorry officer i forgot it?
I can't believe someone actually dares to suggest this
you should have been occupied by the germans like us
Technically an ID is not proof of citizenship.
Valid proofs of citizenship (on the national level) are a government-issued birth certificate (hospital birth certificates don't count), US passport, certificate of citizenship, or certificate of naturalization.
Amusingly enough, many US citizens don't actually own any of these documents.
Oddly, I have a copy of my "certificate of birth abroad" within reach right now, and have ever since I got my passport renewed last year...
so what happens if an American forgets his/her ID at home?
lol sorry officer i forgot it?
I can't believe someone actually dares to suggest this
you should have been occupied by the germans like us
Technically an ID is not proof of citizenship.
Valid proofs of citizenship (on the national level) are a government-issued birth certificate (hospital birth certificates don't count), US passport, certificate of citizenship, or certificate of naturalization.
Amusingly enough, many US citizens don't actually own any of these documents.
It strikes me as odd that someone might not have a government-issued birth certificate.
so what happens if an American forgets his/her ID at home?
lol sorry officer i forgot it?
I can't believe someone actually dares to suggest this
you should have been occupied by the germans like us
Technically an ID is not proof of citizenship.
Valid proofs of citizenship (on the national level) are a government-issued birth certificate (hospital birth certificates don't count), US passport, certificate of citizenship, or certificate of naturalization.
Amusingly enough, many US citizens don't actually own any of these documents.
It strikes me as odd that someone might not have a government-issued birth certificate.
lots of people lose 'em
never bother to file for another
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Making it legal.
naturalization? is that a possibility?
We usually call it "amnesty."
It's generally considered to be a far-left-wing idea and is not seriously on the table.
If by far-left-wing you mean signed into law by Reagan...then yes.
Bipartisan bill signed into law by Reagan. It granted amnesty to a large number of undocumented workers who had been here before 1982 and had been here for several years.
so what happens if an American forgets his/her ID at home?
lol sorry officer i forgot it?
I can't believe someone actually dares to suggest this
you should have been occupied by the germans like us
Technically an ID is not proof of citizenship.
Valid proofs of citizenship (on the national level) are a government-issued birth certificate (hospital birth certificates don't count), US passport, certificate of citizenship, or certificate of naturalization.
Amusingly enough, many US citizens don't actually own any of these documents.
Oddly, I have a copy of my "certificate of birth abroad" within reach right now, and have ever since I got my passport renewed last year...
Oh cool I have a total of zero of those things because my mother is a goddam loon and won't give me my birth certificate. Also I have never traveled abroad.
Yes i know i can just request a new birth certificate but i am lazy and also I didn't think it was a problem until now.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Making it legal.
naturalization? is that a possibility?
We usually call it "amnesty."
It's generally considered to be a far-left-wing idea and is not seriously on the table.
The UK Murdoch-owned press is having a shitfit at the moment over Clegg suggesting it.
What he actually suggested was that since there are a good few hundred thousand people who are in the country illegally and nobody knows who they are or how to find them, it might be a good idea to have a process to naturalise them as a one-off thing since they've obviously managed to integrate, intend to stay, and they might as well be paying taxes.
so what happens if an American forgets his/her ID at home?
lol sorry officer i forgot it?
I can't believe someone actually dares to suggest this
you should have been occupied by the germans like us
Technically an ID is not proof of citizenship.
Valid proofs of citizenship (on the national level) are a government-issued birth certificate (hospital birth certificates don't count), US passport, certificate of citizenship, or certificate of naturalization.
Amusingly enough, many US citizens don't actually own any of these documents.
It strikes me as odd that someone might not have a government-issued birth certificate.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Obviously we can't openly allow millions of undocumented workers in the country. Our controls on capitalism would totally fall apart. What we need to do is find the source of the pressures that cause people to enter illegally in the numbers they do and work from there. Stopgaps might be relieving the pressure in a controlled way. For example, making legitimate immigration easier, putting stricter controls on businesses that use illegal labor. Annex Mexico. You know, normal, reasonable steps to rectify the problem instead of rash, reactionary, and xenophobic legislation.
Donkey Kong on
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
The prisons (where people who have been convicted of crimes are) are actually much nicer.
Which is the saddest part, people trumpet sherrif joe's tough on crime, where his tent city is basically punishing innocent people prior to conviction. Guilty before innocent.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Amnesty need not take a single form. You could provide a path for illegal immigrants to become legal without fear of deportation. Doesn't mean you have to make it instantaneous or easy.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Obviously we can't openly allow millions of undocumented workers in the country. Our controls on capitalism would totally fall apart. What we need to do is find the source of the pressures that cause people to enter illegally in the numbers they do and work from there. Stopgaps might be relieving the pressure in a controlled way. For example, making legitimate immigration easier, putting stricter controls on businesses that use illegal labor. Carpet-bomb Mexico. You know, normal, reasonable steps to rectify the problem instead of rash, reactionary, and xenophobic legislation.
Totally agree.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Making it legal.
naturalization? is that a possibility?
We usually call it "amnesty."
It's generally considered to be a far-left-wing idea and is not seriously on the table.
If by far-left-wing you mean signed into law by Reagan...then yes.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Obviously we can't openly allow millions of undocumented workers in the country. Our controls on capitalism would totally fall apart. What we need to do is find the source of the pressures that cause people to enter illegally in the numbers they do and work from there. Stopgaps might be relieving the pressure in a controlled way. For example, making legitimate immigration easier, putting stricter controls on businesses that use illegal labor. Annex Mexico. You know, normal, reasonable steps to rectify the problem instead of rash, reactionary, and xenophobic legislation.
Amnesty need not take a single form. You could provide a path for illegal immigrants to become legal without fear of deportation. Doesn't mean you have to make it instantaneous or easy.
It's a tough sell to a public that like their policy in simple, declarative, single sentences.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
Also question- Can someone tell me what is going on with some new bill about puerto rico right now? I really don't understand the fuss, and theres not much talk about it.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Obviously we can't openly allow millions of undocumented workers in the country. Our controls on capitalism would totally fall apart. What we need to do is find the source of the pressures that cause people to enter illegally in the numbers they do and work from there. Stopgaps might be relieving the pressure in a controlled way. For example, making legitimate immigration easier, putting stricter controls on businesses that use illegal labor. Annex Mexico. You know, normal, reasonable steps to rectify the problem instead of rash, reactionary, and xenophobic legislation.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Obviously we can't openly allow millions of undocumented workers in the country. Our controls on capitalism would totally fall apart. What we need to do is find the source of the pressures that cause people to enter illegally in the numbers they do and work from there. Stopgaps might be relieving the pressure in a controlled way. For example, making legitimate immigration easier, putting stricter controls on businesses that use illegal labor. Annex Mexico. You know, normal, reasonable steps to rectify the problem instead of rash, reactionary, and xenophobic legislation.
I promise that I'm not going to start shit in [chat], but I'm genuinely non-trollishly curious. I'm totally against this Arizona law, but what do people think of illegal immigration in general ie: what is the proper recourse for coming to this country illegally?
I, myself, have struggled with that for a good long time.
Obviously we can't openly allow millions of undocumented workers in the country. Our controls on capitalism would totally fall apart. What we need to do is find the source of the pressures that cause people to enter illegally in the numbers they do and work from there. Stopgaps might be relieving the pressure in a controlled way. For example, making legitimate immigration easier, putting stricter controls on businesses that use illegal labor. Annex Mexico. You know, normal, reasonable steps to rectify the problem instead of rash, reactionary, and xenophobic legislation.
These are my two favorite ideas.
The third, I don't know.
Give texas and southern california back to mexico.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Also question- Can someone tell me what is going on with some new bill about puerto rico right now? I really don't understand the fuss, and theres not much talk about it.
The house passed a bll that may put PR statehood on the table.
Posts
Thanks. Was just interested in what people thought outside of "RACISM GARBLGARBLGARBL"
Some things you buy off Amazon are actually from private stores. Similar to Ebay. So it may not be directly from Amazon, but from Joe Dickson in Alabama who owns his own store and uses Amazon.
Two people make plans to hang out in a wall message. A third person says. .
Hey what the hell. We were supposed to hang out. . .real cool
Thin Line
We usually call it "amnesty."
It's generally considered to be a far-left-wing idea and is not seriously on the table.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Are the books coming straight from Amazon itself, or all the used/new resellers that list on Amazon?
What I hate is that in typical conservative fashion the debate is either "PAPERS PLEASE!" or "OPEN THE BORDER EVERYONE COME ON IN!" They don't understand nuance, and use so much weasel framing to try and trap you saying shit you didn't say. The entire debate is against a straw man.
When you bring up the potential for abuse they pretend like having to sue the police for wrongful imprisonment is super easy and anyone can do it. Need we forget in maricopa when you are arrested you get tossed into a prison where you can potentially die from poor conditions. So good luck getting your chance to sue!
pleasepaypreacher.net
This is why I prefer calling them "undocumented immigrants" rather than "illegal immigrants."
Calling them 'illegal' just reinforces the notion that it's criminal.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
At that point, DUE, you should "like" it.
this is all kinds of wrong
I'm definitely ordering from other companies.
5 books from one and 2 from the other.
In the past shipping would be combined relative to the store I'm buying from. I should pay shipping on the order of 5 books and then pay shipping on the other order of 2 books from another store.
But it's wanting me to pay shipping on each individual book.
If by far-left-wing you mean signed into law by Reagan...then yes.
The prisons (where people who have been convicted of crimes are) are actually much nicer.
Good point. Cause when I was responding in the thread I kept typing "illegal" thinking, wth. It's illegal, so that's why they're bitching like the racists they are.
I would have guessed. And open borders isn't such an awesome idea just yet either.
Relaxing it alot, though, would be good.
Wait, what?
Edit: ah, I see. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986
I didn't know that. I'd still argue that right now it's not seriously on the table.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Oddly, I have a copy of my "certificate of birth abroad" within reach right now, and have ever since I got my passport renewed last year...
It strikes me as odd that someone might not have a government-issued birth certificate.
lots of people lose 'em
never bother to file for another
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986
Bipartisan bill signed into law by Reagan. It granted amnesty to a large number of undocumented workers who had been here before 1982 and had been here for several years.
Oh cool I have a total of zero of those things because my mother is a goddam loon and won't give me my birth certificate. Also I have never traveled abroad.
The UK Murdoch-owned press is having a shitfit at the moment over Clegg suggesting it.
What he actually suggested was that since there are a good few hundred thousand people who are in the country illegally and nobody knows who they are or how to find them, it might be a good idea to have a process to naturalise them as a one-off thing since they've obviously managed to integrate, intend to stay, and they might as well be paying taxes.
because who cares, y'know?
Except now it matters
Obviously we can't openly allow millions of undocumented workers in the country. Our controls on capitalism would totally fall apart. What we need to do is find the source of the pressures that cause people to enter illegally in the numbers they do and work from there. Stopgaps might be relieving the pressure in a controlled way. For example, making legitimate immigration easier, putting stricter controls on businesses that use illegal labor. Annex Mexico. You know, normal, reasonable steps to rectify the problem instead of rash, reactionary, and xenophobic legislation.
Which is the saddest part, people trumpet sherrif joe's tough on crime, where his tent city is basically punishing innocent people prior to conviction. Guilty before innocent.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Totally agree.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Also championed in a form by GW Bush.
These are my two favorite ideas.
The third, I don't know.
It's a tough sell to a public that like their policy in simple, declarative, single sentences.
I will not be visiting Arizona anytime soon.
Give texas and california back to mexico.
yeah canada does the same thing for retarded reasons too
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
hmm
that sounds scary!
i never lied on my taxes or anything?... but i don't exactly keep good records
this is scary
The house passed a bll that may put PR statehood on the table.