So yeah, who else flies to the rich nodes as terran?
Cool stuff, yeah?
Shrug. I just win before I need to do that. No one can withstand my single tank rush. Actually, like most stuff, I always forget high yields exist.
edit: played a zerg who had a ton of banelings vs. my marines and some marauders, I led with a siege tank and all the banelings blew up on the tank. It survived at 12 health.
I think he means lifting off right at the start and dropping your starting CC on the highyeild minerals.
It's hilarious, especially if you're 1v1ing on Kulas Ravine.
So yeah, who else flies to the rich nodes as terran?
Cool stuff, yeah?
Shrug. I just win before I need to do that. No one can withstand my single tank rush. Actually, like most stuff, I always forget high yields exist.
edit: played a zerg who had a ton of banelings vs. my marines and some marauders, I led with a siege tank and all the banelings blew up on the tank. It survived at 12 health.
I think he means lifting off right at the start and dropping your starting CC on the highyeild minerals.
It's hilarious, especially if you're 1v1ing on Kulas Ravine.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Makes a huge difference. There's one map you can do it on... and completely wall off using the gas, two barracks immediately on both sides of the command center, and two/three supply depots on the outer edges. Then just spam Marine production inside your wall. When playing 2v2, my friend usually just rallies his army to my middle one, creating a pretty good choke-point for the enemies to have to work through.
I liked game 2 of TheLittleOne v. WhiteRa in the HDH round of 4. At work so can't find the link and you should watch the entire series. Another example of a lot of queens, but not so crazy as HD's game.
I don't see how that's bs, but it's certainly hilarious
When I say that it's bs, I mean it in the most endearing and loving manner.
ah, fair enough
I thought you meant it was "cheap" tactic bs
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Not really cheap. Just sooooooo bad. Except for the massive healing. 'cause Queens are terrible vs. ground units, right? But owns air. I only had one shoot down an opposing overlord before. Killed it in a few seconds.
Queens really aren't that great against anything from what I've seen. I have tried having a couple out at a time to deal with early flyers though and that does seem to buy a little time.
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eddizhereScrubber Than A SpongeScrubtown, USARegistered Userregular
If they are MMM, you should get a few tanks and your own MMM ball. Or you could go a ground force and banshees? Vikings for utility. I've won some TvT games w/ a cloaked force of banshees getting all of their tanks before they can scan. Terrans rarely get Ravens (their only mobile detector).
I think the easiest would be the MMM ball and tanks. You will want to not walk into their tanks and have them walk into yours. How you arrange that is up to you! Medivacs can spy on the cliffs and let your tanks shoot up there or just airlift you into their base and past their wall.
Did this strategy talk help at all or do you want a really specific build order? I find the situation is always different so I talk more in general about unit compositions.
edit to add: terrans aren't really a massing race, I mean you can mass marines/marauders early but those can be countered by just a few tanks in siege mode. Really, marines will absolutely disintegrate in bunches of 6. While I think macro is still important, you'll want to micro each individual fight for maximum success. I've won TvT fights w/ equal forces and come out with 3/4 of my army intact and thanks to scvs/medivacs get all healed up then stomp them as their recovery forces come out 1 by 1.
I know you can always mass ANY unit, but I don't think that's the optimal way to win this matchup.
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eddizhereScrubber Than A SpongeScrubtown, USARegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Woohoo! I finally nabbed #1 in copper! It has been eluding me for the whole week!
My last game before it was against a protoss who tried to cannon rush me. He was nice and seemed genuinely glad that someone smashed his rush into the ground. I'm so glad that I am able to improve in this game so much more easily than in brood war.
eddizhere on
League of Legends: Plutoniumwombat
Smite: Plutoniumwombat
Woohoo! I finally nabbed #1 in copper! It has been eluding me for the whole week!
My last game before it was against a protoss who tried to cannon rush me. He was nice and seemed genuinely glad that someone smashed his rush into the ground. I'm so glad that I am able to improve in this game so much more easily than in brood war.
you and me both, i'm finally winning consistently!
Was teamed with a zerg ally as terran last night and we went against two protoss.
He rushed out some zerglings and I rushed out some reapers...that combination is pretty damn strong against protoss as it's difficult for them to defend both their front door and their worker line.
The game actually went on for a short while longer until we both got our speed upgrades and neither protoss could stop us from killing their workers or buildings. Pretty fun.
if you lost to mass marauders or mass banelings/zergling i'm pretty sure that just means the other guy had better macro than you, which is really more of an argument to keep practicing as that advice states
but definitely don't follow it if you're not having fun. i don't think that advice is suitable for anyone who is going to care very much when they lose, because it's very much a "sacrifice wins in the short term for improvement over the long term" kind of thing
Apparently your macro should have included some detectors and air units.
I was going by
The most important thing in any economy-drive RTS is macro. Making "a lot of shit" can get you to platinum by itself.
For your next 20 games: Ignore timing. Ignore scouting. Ignore countering what he's doing. Ignore map control. Focus on getting a tight build that maximizes your economy and keep your minerals low at all times. Never miss a MULE calldown. Never miss a production round. Never miss a Supply Depot. Never make any building too late or too early. Never miss making a single SCV. Don't take your gas too early or too late. Then take your monstrous army, attack-move it somewhere, and keep making stuff. Don't even look at your army. Seriously.
Play 20 games like this and post the results. You should see vast improvement. Then you can move on to step 2.
I never got to the "monstrous army" part because 3 DTs killed my whole base when I didn't have scan because I used it all on MULEs
Why would I tech up to detectors or reinforce my wall with bunkers when I'm ignoring what he's doing
I'm just saying, this advice has not really helped me in any way because the games are over too fast for it to teach me anything
I understand that macro is important but this is not really a good way to learn macro in my experience
Apparently your macro should have included some detectors and air units.
I was going by
The most important thing in any economy-drive RTS is macro. Making "a lot of shit" can get you to platinum by itself.
For your next 20 games: Ignore timing. Ignore scouting. Ignore countering what he's doing. Ignore map control. Focus on getting a tight build that maximizes your economy and keep your minerals low at all times. Never miss a MULE calldown. Never miss a production round. Never miss a Supply Depot. Never make any building too late or too early. Never miss making a single SCV. Don't take your gas too early or too late. Then take your monstrous army, attack-move it somewhere, and keep making stuff. Don't even look at your army. Seriously.
Play 20 games like this and post the results. You should see vast improvement. Then you can move on to step 2.
I never got to the "monstrous army" part because 3 DTs killed my whole base when I didn't have scan because I used it all on MULEs
Why would I tech up to detectors or reinforce my wall with bunkers when I'm ignoring what he's doing
I'm just saying, this advice has not really helped me in any way because the games are over too fast for it to teach me anything
I understand that macro is important but this is not really a good way to learn macro in my experience
I'm pretty sure the intent was not that you abandon all strategy whatsoever and focus only on macro, but just that you not worry about microing your forces during combat. You still need to build a mix of units and include detectors if you don't want to just get assraped by cloaked units. I mean, that's just fundamental. Superior economy and faster unit production isn't going to help you against cloaked ghosts dropping nukes on your mineral line if you didn't build any detectors.
Apparently your macro should have included some detectors and air units.
I was going by
The most important thing in any economy-drive RTS is macro. Making "a lot of shit" can get you to platinum by itself.
For your next 20 games: Ignore timing. Ignore scouting. Ignore countering what he's doing. Ignore map control. Focus on getting a tight build that maximizes your economy and keep your minerals low at all times. Never miss a MULE calldown. Never miss a production round. Never miss a Supply Depot. Never make any building too late or too early. Never miss making a single SCV. Don't take your gas too early or too late. Then take your monstrous army, attack-move it somewhere, and keep making stuff. Don't even look at your army. Seriously.
Play 20 games like this and post the results. You should see vast improvement. Then you can move on to step 2.
I never got to the "monstrous army" part because 3 DTs killed my whole base when I didn't have scan because I used it all on MULEs
Why would I tech up to detectors or reinforce my wall with bunkers when I'm ignoring what he's doing
I'm just saying, this advice has not really helped me in any way because the games are over too fast for it to teach me anything
I understand that macro is important but this is not really a good way to learn macro in my experience
I'm pretty sure the intent was not that you abandon all strategy whatsoever and focus only on macro, but just that you not worry about microing your forces during combat. You still need to build a mix of units and include detectors if you don't want to just get assraped by cloaked units. I mean, that's just fundamental. Superior economy and faster unit production isn't going to help you against cloaked ghosts dropping nukes on your mineral line if you didn't build any detectors.
Right
And I was about to get turrets
But I would have had them sooner if I knew he was rushing to DTs and only DTs
Which I can't know if I'm not scouting
So it is not fun being hit by DTs out of nowhere
So I will not be playing in a manner that is not fun
So is Battle.net shit for anyone else tonight. I have one quick win, one loss, and 3 DC's on the night. Connection issues are a new one for me, but it did storm tonight so it may just be on my end.
Apparently your macro should have included some detectors and air units.
I was going by
The most important thing in any economy-drive RTS is macro. Making "a lot of shit" can get you to platinum by itself.
For your next 20 games: Ignore timing. Ignore scouting. Ignore countering what he's doing. Ignore map control. Focus on getting a tight build that maximizes your economy and keep your minerals low at all times. Never miss a MULE calldown. Never miss a production round. Never miss a Supply Depot. Never make any building too late or too early. Never miss making a single SCV. Don't take your gas too early or too late. Then take your monstrous army, attack-move it somewhere, and keep making stuff. Don't even look at your army. Seriously.
Play 20 games like this and post the results. You should see vast improvement. Then you can move on to step 2.
I never got to the "monstrous army" part because 3 DTs killed my whole base when I didn't have scan because I used it all on MULEs
Why would I tech up to detectors or reinforce my wall with bunkers when I'm ignoring what he's doing
I'm just saying, this advice has not really helped me in any way because the games are over too fast for it to teach me anything
I understand that macro is important but this is not really a good way to learn macro in my experience
I'm pretty sure the intent was not that you abandon all strategy whatsoever and focus only on macro, but just that you not worry about microing your forces during combat. You still need to build a mix of units and include detectors if you don't want to just get assraped by cloaked units. I mean, that's just fundamental. Superior economy and faster unit production isn't going to help you against cloaked ghosts dropping nukes on your mineral line if you didn't build any detectors.
Right
And I was about to get turrets
But I would have had them sooner if I knew he was rushing to DTs and only DTs
Which I can't know if I'm not scouting
So it is not fun being hit by DTs out of nowhere
So I will not be playing in a manner that is not fun
You need to have both detection and antiair around like, minute 7. Which is like... 5 minutes on faster.
Not really cheap. Just sooooooo bad. Except for the massive healing. 'cause Queens are terrible vs. ground units, right? But owns air. I only had one shoot down an opposing overlord before. Killed it in a few seconds.
Queens are fantastic against ground units provided you can protect them.
They're not super amazing against Terran on account of they can easily get focus-fired
But they have a range of 2 or 3, and against Zealots and Zerglings are just fucking aces.
Posts
btw i love using banelings on hydras. I think a lot of zerg players forget they're light armor.
I think he means lifting off right at the start and dropping your starting CC on the highyeild minerals.
It's hilarious, especially if you're 1v1ing on Kulas Ravine.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Makes a huge difference. There's one map you can do it on... and completely wall off using the gas, two barracks immediately on both sides of the command center, and two/three supply depots on the outer edges. Then just spam Marine production inside your wall. When playing 2v2, my friend usually just rallies his army to my middle one, creating a pretty good choke-point for the enemies to have to work through.
this is hysterical
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-nWO5n5zYw
hahaha, that is such bs. I would have hated to try and deal with that shit.
Smite: Plutoniumwombat
Tell me about your void rays.
Multitasking Trainer:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124983
When I say that it's bs, I mean it in the most endearing and loving manner.
Smite: Plutoniumwombat
ah, fair enough
I thought you meant it was "cheap" tactic bs
I was so awful even on easy. microing that probe is the worst.
Smite: Plutoniumwombat
But that would be unlikely.
added in the unlikely event you deign to play this
this game...
edit: with headshot hitboxes even
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
i suck at tvt
And remember when my force can win
"no three zealots can kill my marines and one marauder"
Oh wait no I'll win that ahhh fuck
If they are MMM, you should get a few tanks and your own MMM ball. Or you could go a ground force and banshees? Vikings for utility. I've won some TvT games w/ a cloaked force of banshees getting all of their tanks before they can scan. Terrans rarely get Ravens (their only mobile detector).
I think the easiest would be the MMM ball and tanks. You will want to not walk into their tanks and have them walk into yours. How you arrange that is up to you! Medivacs can spy on the cliffs and let your tanks shoot up there or just airlift you into their base and past their wall.
Did this strategy talk help at all or do you want a really specific build order? I find the situation is always different so I talk more in general about unit compositions.
edit to add: terrans aren't really a massing race, I mean you can mass marines/marauders early but those can be countered by just a few tanks in siege mode. Really, marines will absolutely disintegrate in bunches of 6. While I think macro is still important, you'll want to micro each individual fight for maximum success. I've won TvT fights w/ equal forces and come out with 3/4 of my army intact and thanks to scvs/medivacs get all healed up then stomp them as their recovery forces come out 1 by 1.
I know you can always mass ANY unit, but I don't think that's the optimal way to win this matchup.
My last game before it was against a protoss who tried to cannon rush me. He was nice and seemed genuinely glad that someone smashed his rush into the ground. I'm so glad that I am able to improve in this game so much more easily than in brood war.
Smite: Plutoniumwombat
you and me both, i'm finally winning consistently!
He rushed out some zerglings and I rushed out some reapers...that combination is pretty damn strong against protoss as it's difficult for them to defend both their front door and their worker line.
The game actually went on for a short while longer until we both got our speed upgrades and neither protoss could stop us from killing their workers or buildings. Pretty fun.
Secret Satan
mass dark templars
mass marauders
and banelings with mass zerglings
And I didn't learn anything because the games were over before I could get to the parts where macroing gets hard
I'm going back to playing terribly in the normal way
but definitely don't follow it if you're not having fun. i don't think that advice is suitable for anyone who is going to care very much when they lose, because it's very much a "sacrifice wins in the short term for improvement over the long term" kind of thing
I was going by
I never got to the "monstrous army" part because 3 DTs killed my whole base when I didn't have scan because I used it all on MULEs
Why would I tech up to detectors or reinforce my wall with bunkers when I'm ignoring what he's doing
I'm just saying, this advice has not really helped me in any way because the games are over too fast for it to teach me anything
I understand that macro is important but this is not really a good way to learn macro in my experience
I'm pretty sure the intent was not that you abandon all strategy whatsoever and focus only on macro, but just that you not worry about microing your forces during combat. You still need to build a mix of units and include detectors if you don't want to just get assraped by cloaked units. I mean, that's just fundamental. Superior economy and faster unit production isn't going to help you against cloaked ghosts dropping nukes on your mineral line if you didn't build any detectors.
Yes please!
Right
And I was about to get turrets
But I would have had them sooner if I knew he was rushing to DTs and only DTs
Which I can't know if I'm not scouting
So it is not fun being hit by DTs out of nowhere
So I will not be playing in a manner that is not fun
sadface
You need to have both detection and antiair around like, minute 7. Which is like... 5 minutes on faster.
yeah this is the most frustrating part of the game for me. Hopefully it will all be second nature more or less eventually
hurgh
Queens are fantastic against ground units provided you can protect them.
They're not super amazing against Terran on account of they can easily get focus-fired
But they have a range of 2 or 3, and against Zealots and Zerglings are just fucking aces.