reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
It didn't scar me for life. What it did, like the vast majority of vanilla quests, was piss me off with how shitty it was. What further pisses me off that there seems to exist a certain breed of goose that likes to think these quests were good simply by the virtue of not being quite as awful as quests in earlier MMOs. "Dick rot is pretty good because after all it's not dick rot and anal burns."
I'm sorry this one quest emotionally scarred you for life. Maybe, with proper treatment, you too, can learn to quest again.
EDIT: A for the record, the questing system in WoW, even at launch of vastly superior to any MMO prior or contemporary.
I don't have previous MMO experience to compare it to, but I considered most of the quests back then to be pretty fun. Of course they're lame compared to the most current stuff but back then it was exciting and fresh.
It's not like car designers went from horse drawn carriage to a BMW instantly.
Edit: Not all the quests in Vanilla were like that though. Some were really hard, yes, but some were also really easy.
Edit2: I quoted you because I agree with you, not arguing about any particular point you made.
It didn't scar me for life. What it did, like the vast majority of vanilla quests, was piss me off with how shitty it was. What further pisses me off that there seems to exist a certain breed of goose that likes to think these quests were good simply by the virtue of not being quite as awful as quests in earlier MMOs. "Dick rot is pretty good because after all it's not dick rot and anal burns."
/facepalm
All I'm saying is you're comparing something build five years ago based on a standard that's relative to today.
We know now how crappy some of the quests were, but that's only because we've seen the evolution of the quest system over the past five years. But for every crappy quest in Vanilla, there's an equally awesome one/
So I'm sorry a vast majority of vanilla quests pissed you off. But the reality is if the questing system hadn't been interesting and fun for a vast majority of players, we wouldn't be talking about "vanilla" WoW, now would we?
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
I would posit that it was the seamless huge world and the social aspects of the experience that hooked most people, not "run to place, kill shit, run back to town, run back to place to kill slightly different shit".
I'm sorry this one quest emotionally scarred you for life. Maybe, with proper treatment, you too, can learn to quest again.
EDIT: A for the record, the questing system in WoW, even at launch of vastly superior to any MMO prior or contemporary.
I don't have previous MMO experience to compare it to, but I considered most of the quests back then to be pretty fun. Of course they're lame compared to the most current stuff but back then it was exciting and fresh.
It's not like car designers went from horse drawn carriage to a BMW instantly.
Edit: Not all the quests in Vanilla were like that though. Some were really hard, yes, but some were also really easy.
Edit2: I quoted you because I agree with you, not arguing about any particular point you made.
Thanks. I'm glad to know I'm not alone.
It just seems there's been this post-expansion trend of "I played WoW back in the day and it really suck hard, and I knew how much it sucked, while everyone thought it was the greatest game ever, but not me I'm cool because I thought it totally sucked balls but played anyway look how cool I am" geese.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Also, I'm not saying that WoW sucks or always sucked, I kept on playing it after all, but it did have quite a few flawed elements that were obviously flawed even at the time. The only two games that have made backtracking tolerable are Super Metroid and Symphonies of the Night, and those games didn't make you run between spots A and B five fucking times.
Also, I'm not saying that WoW sucks or always sucked, I kept on playing it after all, but it did have quite a few flawed elements that were obviously flawed even at the time. The only two games that have made backtracking tolerable are Super Metroid and Symphonies of the Night.
I'm sorry this one quest emotionally scarred you for life. Maybe, with proper treatment, you too, can learn to quest again.
EDIT: A for the record, the questing system in WoW, even at launch of vastly superior to any MMO prior or contemporary.
I don't have previous MMO experience to compare it to, but I considered most of the quests back then to be pretty fun. Of course they're lame compared to the most current stuff but back then it was exciting and fresh.
It's not like car designers went from horse drawn carriage to a BMW instantly.
Edit: Not all the quests in Vanilla were like that though. Some were really hard, yes, but some were also really easy.
Edit2: I quoted you because I agree with you, not arguing about any particular point you made.
Thanks. I'm glad to know I'm not alone.
It just seems there's been this post-expansion trend of "I played WoW back in the day and it really suck hard, and I knew how much it sucked, while everyone thought it was the greatest game ever, but not me I'm cool because I thought it totally sucked balls but played anyway look how cool I am" geese.
I played wow at launch, and came to it after coming from from about 4-5 years of EverQuest, with a smattering of FFXI Shadowbane SWG CoH DAoC thrown in, and I have to say that WoWs questing system was well above all the other games that were out at the time, even the shittiest hardest quests in the goddamn game, didn't compare to how badly designed most quests were in other games. EverQuest was the worst of them all though, here's an example quest from everquest.
"Go give this vial of trolls blood to Tom."
Thats it, it doesn't tell you where Tom is, or what Tom is, it just tells you to go give the blood to Tom. As it turns out, Tom is in the middle of the fucking jungle 3 continents away surrounded by angry ghosts, who will most likely kill you. And the only way you know about this, is if someone else happened to find Tom, and went to Allakhazams and posted an article about it.
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Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
I shall talk about a good (or at the very least decent) vanilla quest to offset some of the negativity of elite dwarves out of fucking nowhere.
The Legend of Stalvan. Alliance players will likely remember it as a quasi-detective story that made you run around places, places where you've been to earlier. And it was great.
"But reVerse, you oddly capitalized poster, earlier on the page I saw you write how you hate running to places and how backtracking is stupid."
True, but I also gave examples of games that did backtracking well, namely games of the Metroidvania variety. The reason why Metroidvanias do backtracking well is that they don't just tell you to go back to Oldsville to do the exact same thing you did while you were there the first time around. Usually, they give you a new gadget like x-ray vision or the ability to turn into a bat, and then you yourself decide that hey, there were all those empty areas/holes in the roof at Oldsville, I'm gonna go there and check shit out with my new gadgets.
The Legend of Stalvan captures some of this spirit. Instead of telling you to go back to these places you've already been to so that you can kill X amount Ys, it sends you to those places so that you can uncover the mystery, the legend if you will, of Stalvan. Even though you have to run through places you've run through before (and I will never forgive Blizzard for making mounts level 40 originally), it is now for a new, interesting purpose.
There are some parts of the quest chain that are pants on head retarded in usual vanilla WoW quest design fashion, most notably Stalvan himself who was a red level mob if you did the quest as soon as it was available and who surrounded himself with quite fast respawning orange level ghouls. Another sillypoo up the hat is the early part of the quest that makes you run to Moonbrook, then back to Darkshire from where you are told to go to Elwynn Forest. Why couldn't the quest at Moonbrook just go "the letter from Stalvan talks of the Lion's Pride Inn in Elwynn Forest, go check it out". Instead it makes you no mention of that and makes you return to Darkshire where the stupid idiot of an NPC just goes "oops, I totally missed that he's lived at the Lion's Pride Inn the first time through the registry, go check that out as well". A completely needless step that could have been done away with slight alteration.
Anyway, the kind of sort of detective story-esque vibe the whole quest line emits makes it pretty good. Quests like Battle for Hillsbrad that make you run back and forth so the knobhead NPC can tell you what kind of bland, uninteresting mobs you can kill next are made of fail and poop, and it's these kinds of quests make up the majority of the experience.
I remember doing that on my warlock I was so proud I solo'ed the dwarves and completed the chain. I forgot but I am going to miss releasing Helcular on Southshore
I miss the days when Helcular would lay waste to all of Southshore. Ah the sweet tears of the Alliance players when that happened. I'd wait and save the final quest turn-in for when it was busy with lots of people around.
But nothing lasts forever and Blizzard nerfed the crap out of 'ol Helc.
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
To this day, even after all of this time, my favorite and most memorable questline in WoW has to be the one with Tirion Fordring in Eastern Plaguelands (redemption). Fairly long chain that culminated in Hearthglen. Such a total badass questline, and the main reason that Tirion Fordring's probably my favorite NPC in this game.
I remember doing that on my warlock I was so proud I solo'ed the dwarves and completed the chain. I forgot but I am going to miss releasing Helcular on Southshore
I miss the days when Helcular would lay waste to all of Southshore. Ah the sweet tears of the Alliance players when that happened. I'd wait and save the final quest turn-in for when it was busy with lots of people around.
But nothing lasts forever and Blizzard nerfed the crap out of 'ol Helc.
In Duskwood there is a questline where as alliance you release a level 30 elite on Darkshire. It is too bad that Horde didn't get a quest that gave them the opportunity to give some low level Horde a bad day.
Noob question - I really haven't played much of WoW (soloed a druid and paladin to about 40ish and gave up - about 2 years ago) and am giving it another chance. I've got my little hunter up to level 17 so far and am enjoying it. But:
Today I used the dungeon finder for the first time. I actually really enjoyed it, but I have a few questions in hindsight.
How do people typically pick targets in this game? Nobody was designated as a main assist at the start of the dungeon, but people seemed to kind of innately know what to target. I figured the best way would be to assist the tank, so I was targeting by selecting the tank, then hitting attack to switch to his target, then attack again to engage. As a hunter I was a bit far away to manually select each target (nor is that usually a good idea in most MMO's i've played!). Is there a different way, that people automatically kind of default to?
What's the general rule on rolling on items? I like the way WoW handles this, but I don't want to break any unwritten rules! Like, early on I won a roll on a green weapon upgrade (which I rolled need on). Later, a blue weapon dropped which would be a big upgrade from the green I just got, but considering I already won a weapon upgrade on need I thought it might be a bit rude to roll need again, so I rolled greed.
Are there situations where an item will be an upgrade for me but rolling need will lead to 4 angry people yelling "OMG YOU'RE A HUNTER AND YOU ROLLED NEED ON THAT YOU IDIOT!!!"?
Are there any other really basic tips along those lines people could offer? Every game has these 'unwritten rules' and it's good to know them .
If you want to target the tanks target, just select the tank with the appropriate F key (if you're not aware, you can target party members (including yourself) with F1-F5) and then press F to assist him, which will select his target. Alternatively you can install a mod will shows party target unit frames so you can see who everyone else is focusing on.
Noob question - I really haven't played much of WoW (soloed a druid and paladin to about 40ish and gave up - about 2 years ago) and am giving it another chance. I've got my little hunter up to level 17 so far and am enjoying it. But:
Today I used the dungeon finder for the first time. I actually really enjoyed it, but I have a few questions in hindsight.
How do people typically pick targets in this game? Nobody was designated as a main assist at the start of the dungeon, but people seemed to kind of innately know what to target. I figured the best way would be to assist the tank, so I was targeting by selecting the tank, then hitting attack to switch to his target, then attack again to engage. As a hunter I was a bit far away to manually select each target (nor is that usually a good idea in most MMO's i've played!). Is there a different way, that people automatically kind of default to?
That should work just fine. If you see the tank's health dropping rapidly, you could use a few abilities to give the healer a bit of breathing room (scatter shot). Interrupting casts can also be quite the boon for the group, especially if it's a heal.
When it comes down to it, knowing how to help keep people alive is what separates the good DPS from the rest of the DPS. For the love of Thrall, get the hell out of the fire!
What's the general rule on rolling on items? I like the way WoW handles this, but I don't want to break any unwritten rules! Like, early on I won a roll on a green weapon upgrade (which I rolled need on). Later, a blue weapon dropped which would be a big upgrade from the green I just got, but considering I already won a weapon upgrade on need I thought it might be a bit rude to roll need again, so I rolled greed.
Unless otherwise stated, need if you need. You had no way of knowing for fact that the other upgrade would drop as well. Take every opportunity for an upgrade you get..
Are there situations where an item will be an upgrade for me but rolling need will lead to 4 angry people yelling "OMG YOU'RE A HUNTER AND YOU ROLLED NEED ON THAT YOU IDIOT!!!"?
Probably. Stamina is good for everyone, so we'll ignore that stat. Hunters want agility and intelligence, with priority for agility. Ignore strength (you should be swinging your melee weapon as little as possible) and spirit. Other than that, spell power, avoidance, and expertise are all pretty useless for hunters. You get some use out of haste, but it's very minor. Crit, hit rating, and attack power are all good choices. Armor penetration is decent for you as well.
Are there any other really basic tips along those lines people could offer? Every game has these 'unwritten rules' and it's good to know them .
Understanding what other classes (and specs) use helps a ton in deciding what you shouldn't roll on. If you're in a group with a pally, two warriors, and a priest, you've got free reign on leather (or mail, depending on the level) that drops. If you've got a rogue, a druid, or a shaman in your group, you'll end up sharing with them. It's polite to give other players priority on a roll if you've already won something.
Cryogen I have seen hunters hit need on spirit gear, stamina maces and all kinds of other useless crap and people don't say a word about it. Dungeons happen so frequently these days that people stopped caring about what drops in them.
Noob question - I really haven't played much of WoW (soloed a druid and paladin to about 40ish and gave up - about 2 years ago) and am giving it another chance. I've got my little hunter up to level 17 so far and am enjoying it. But:
Today I used the dungeon finder for the first time. I actually really enjoyed it, but I have a few questions in hindsight.
How do people typically pick targets in this game? Nobody was designated as a main assist at the start of the dungeon, but people seemed to kind of innately know what to target. I figured the best way would be to assist the tank, so I was targeting by selecting the tank, then hitting attack to switch to his target, then attack again to engage. As a hunter I was a bit far away to manually select each target (nor is that usually a good idea in most MMO's i've played!). Is there a different way, that people automatically kind of default to?
What's the general rule on rolling on items? I like the way WoW handles this, but I don't want to break any unwritten rules! Like, early on I won a roll on a green weapon upgrade (which I rolled need on). Later, a blue weapon dropped which would be a big upgrade from the green I just got, but considering I already won a weapon upgrade on need I thought it might be a bit rude to roll need again, so I rolled greed.
Are there situations where an item will be an upgrade for me but rolling need will lead to 4 angry people yelling "OMG YOU'RE A HUNTER AND YOU ROLLED NEED ON THAT YOU IDIOT!!!"?
Are there any other really basic tips along those lines people could offer? Every game has these 'unwritten rules' and it's good to know them .
Target selection: Generally target casters first(especially healer types). Some dungeons might have gimmick mobs that will change the targetting priority. For example, Gnomeregan has those alarm-o-bots that summon reinforcements if not killed quickly. Or you might get a mob that silences or does some other thing that requires it die quickly. Only way to know is by experience. If another dps seems to know what they're doing might not be a bad idea to assist them.
Loot: Almost no one is going to care if you roll need on a trash drop green(so long as you're not rolling need on every single green).
General rule of thumb on world drops is to roll greed.
Boss loot drops: Basic rule of thumb here: don't be greedy and don't be a d*ck.
As a hunter you're *generally going to have priority on ranged weapons. 1H weapons you'll have competition from rogues and melee shaman. On 2H weapons you'll have competition from plate dps, feral druids, and at lower levels maybe shaman too. If it's got strength on it it's meant for the plate dps guys. You want agility and attack power. If it's got agility and it's a 2Hander it's a feral druid/hunter weapon most likely. If it has spellpower it's no good to you at all.
At lower levels you'll be rolling on leather against rogues, feral druids, and melee shaman. After level 40 you'll be rolling on mail mostly and enhancement shamans will be your competition.
Is it an upgrade? Is it ideal for your class/spec or would it benefit someone else more? Have you already won something? These are all things to consider when rolling on stuff.
*some of the ranged weapons in WoTLK raids are itemized for a plate tank and not hunters. These items have strength, stamina, and defense usually so they're easily identifiable. If the tank doesn't need it and it's a big upgrade for you in terms of raw dps you'd be justified rolling on it in that case but you generally don't want these items.
I'm starting to wonder if these guild perks aren't a terrible idea. Big end guilds already have tons of shit to hold over the heads of smaller social guilds and guildless people and like it or not this system will in fact lead people to stay with guilds they hate for perks instead of starting over again. Weeks or months everytime you leave a bad situation? Terrible. You should keep your rep level from guild to guild.
I remember doing that on my warlock I was so proud I solo'ed the dwarves and completed the chain. I forgot but I am going to miss releasing Helcular on Southshore
I miss the days when Helcular would lay waste to all of Southshore. Ah the sweet tears of the Alliance players when that happened. I'd wait and save the final quest turn-in for when it was busy with lots of people around.
But nothing lasts forever and Blizzard nerfed the crap out of 'ol Helc.
In Duskwood there is a questline where as alliance you release a level 30 elite on Darkshire. It is too bad that Horde didn't get a quest that gave them the opportunity to give some low level Horde a bad day.
Stitches! Yeah setting him loose on Darkshire and without any higher levels around he would fuck shit up all the way to Darkshire, then cleanse the town of those silly humans.
Actually the whole Embalmer questline was awesome, pre-nerf. The first time I set foot into Duskwood I was always looking over my shoulder to make sure nothing was gonna sneak up on me. Treaking through the undead-infested woods for a lonely hermit only to find out he made a monster that would rip the town a new one, then getting his heart from his undead wife who was an elite with four guards.
Fuck Mor-Ladim though, seriously, you could aggro him from the other side of the Graveyard and he would gladly kick your shit in with a smile on his face, feasting on the tears of everyone he has killed.
I'm starting to wonder if these guild perks aren't a terrible idea. Big end guilds already have tons of shit to hold over the heads of smaller social guilds and guildless people and like it or not this system will in fact lead people to stay with guilds they hate for perks instead of starting over again. Weeks or months everytime you leave a bad situation? Terrible. You should keep your rep level from guild to guild.
If someone stays with a guild they don't like for a smaller repair bill and a mount with a flag on it, I think they have bigger problems to deal with.
Let's wait and see some details first.
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L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Today was a very productive day for me.
I got Loremaster.
I downed Sarth + 3 Drakes...solo healed it. Got carried by an over-the-top elitist guild who made up half the raid, but I'll never have to associate with them again.
Did Naxx and got a few more achievements that I didn't get before.
Made ass-tons of gold. I can now buy epic flying on another character, or something.
I'm starting to wonder if these guild perks aren't a terrible idea. Big end guilds already have tons of shit to hold over the heads of smaller social guilds and guildless people and like it or not this system will in fact lead people to stay with guilds they hate for perks instead of starting over again. Weeks or months everytime you leave a bad situation? Terrible. You should keep your rep level from guild to guild.
If someone stays with a guild they don't like for a smaller repair bill and a mount with a flag on it, I think they have bigger problems to deal with.
Let's wait and see some details first.
Perhaps for the rep grinding, heroic runs with the guild. The first random dungeon might give five times the amount of guild rep as the following ones. I'm sure they'll design it in a way so that a player could grind through large chunks of rep in a few days if they really wanted to.
I'm sure donating materials to the GB will help with the rep grind as well. A few checks would have to be put into place to prevent abuse of a system like that, but I don't think it would be insurmountable to pull off. Perhaps a sort of "bind to guild" effect could be added to the end game items and materials, making it so that once it's in the GB, it's tagged to the guild and no one within that guild can get credit for it again.
I'm pretty glad Archaeology isn't going to be super important, it kind of bugged me that my bad ass Orc warrior would be weaker without learning some stuff that doesn't really fit in with the character I feel he is (lol rp lol).
Plus now I can make a Dwarf hunter who's an engineer and an archaeologist! 8-)
GC touches on the guild switching thing in the interview Weevil posted earlier. Reading between the lines, they know it's potentially an issue since they're "scared" of people potentially not wanting to leave guilds so as to not give up the perks, but they haven't really decided on how long it takes for someone to join a guild and get back to "exalted" rep with it.
GC touches on the guild switching thing in the interview Weevil posted earlier. Reading between the lines, they know it's potentially an issue since they're "scared" of people potentially not wanting to leave guilds so as to not give up the perks, but they haven't really decided on how long it takes for someone to join a guild and get back to "exalted" rep with it.
I would just prefer it if there's not some sort of hard coded limit to the amount of rep you could gain with them in a day, like with the oracles or frenzy heart dailies. I understand that it should involve some time, but allow the player to choose when that time should be spent.
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Well, I decided I'll try to get my account restored, but I doubt that'll happen. I got four WoW accounts, two of the CD keys are missing and even if they weren't missing I'd have no way of knowing which one of them belongs to the compromised account. All I can hope is that since all the accounts are under one Battle.net account and registered by the same duder (me), the customer service person will find in his cold heart enough mercy to accept that as enough proof of me being the legitimate owner of the account. Probably not, though, but we'll see.
Noob question - I really haven't played much of WoW (soloed a druid and paladin to about 40ish and gave up - about 2 years ago) and am giving it another chance. I've got my little hunter up to level 17 so far and am enjoying it. But:
Today I used the dungeon finder for the first time. I actually really enjoyed it, but I have a few questions in hindsight.
How do people typically pick targets in this game? Nobody was designated as a main assist at the start of the dungeon, but people seemed to kind of innately know what to target. I figured the best way would be to assist the tank, so I was targeting by selecting the tank, then hitting attack to switch to his target, then attack again to engage. As a hunter I was a bit far away to manually select each target (nor is that usually a good idea in most MMO's i've played!). Is there a different way, that people automatically kind of default to?
What's the general rule on rolling on items? I like the way WoW handles this, but I don't want to break any unwritten rules! Like, early on I won a roll on a green weapon upgrade (which I rolled need on). Later, a blue weapon dropped which would be a big upgrade from the green I just got, but considering I already won a weapon upgrade on need I thought it might be a bit rude to roll need again, so I rolled greed.
Are there situations where an item will be an upgrade for me but rolling need will lead to 4 angry people yelling "OMG YOU'RE A HUNTER AND YOU ROLLED NEED ON THAT YOU IDIOT!!!"?
Are there any other really basic tips along those lines people could offer? Every game has these 'unwritten rules' and it's good to know them .
Target selection: Generally target casters first(especially healer types). Some dungeons might have gimmick mobs that will change the targetting priority. For example, Gnomeregan has those alarm-o-bots that summon reinforcements if not killed quickly. Or you might get a mob that silences or does some other thing that requires it die quickly. Only way to know is by experience. If another dps seems to know what they're doing might not be a bad idea to assist them.
Loot: Almost no one is going to care if you roll need on a trash drop green(so long as you're not rolling need on every single green).
General rule of thumb on world drops is to roll greed.
Boss loot drops: Basic rule of thumb here: don't be greedy and don't be a d*ck.
As a hunter you're *generally going to have priority on ranged weapons. 1H weapons you'll have competition from rogues and melee shaman. On 2H weapons you'll have competition from plate dps, feral druids, and at lower levels maybe shaman too. If it's got strength on it it's meant for the plate dps guys. You want agility and attack power. If it's got agility and it's a 2Hander it's a feral druid/hunter weapon most likely. If it has spellpower it's no good to you at all.
At lower levels you'll be rolling on leather against rogues, feral druids, and melee shaman. After level 40 you'll be rolling on mail mostly and enhancement shamans will be your competition.
Is it an upgrade? Is it ideal for your class/spec or would it benefit someone else more? Have you already won something? These are all things to consider when rolling on stuff.
*some of the ranged weapons in WoTLK raids are itemized for a plate tank and not hunters. These items have strength, stamina, and defense usually so they're easily identifiable. If the tank doesn't need it and it's a big upgrade for you in terms of raw dps you'd be justified rolling on it in that case but you generally don't want these items.
I'm starting to get how hunters feel. A lot of best in slot lists feature a ton of ranged weapons, but no one wants to let rogues roll on them. And shit, I know I don't "need" a ring with strength on it, but it sure as shit doesn't hurt when a 264 ring drops and I still had a 200 ring.
Why couldn't the quest at Moonbrook just go "the letter from Stalvan talks of the Lion's Pride Inn in Elwynn Forest, go check it out". Instead it makes you no mention of that and makes you return to Darkshire where the stupid idiot of an NPC just goes "oops, I totally missed that he's lived at the Lion's Pride Inn the first time through the registry, go check that out as well". A completely needless step that could have been done away with slight alteration.
A lot of vanilla quests were like that -- they had one quest giver central to the quest line and insisted on talking to him on every second step of the chain.
"Oh, you went to the southern edge of Kalimdor to slay the great Foo of Bar? Good. Now go to the northern edge of Kalimdor and bring me the scrotum of the Dread Placebo! See you in two hours."
Why couldn't the quest at Moonbrook just go "the letter from Stalvan talks of the Lion's Pride Inn in Elwynn Forest, go check it out". Instead it makes you no mention of that and makes you return to Darkshire where the stupid idiot of an NPC just goes "oops, I totally missed that he's lived at the Lion's Pride Inn the first time through the registry, go check that out as well". A completely needless step that could have been done away with slight alteration.
A lot of vanilla quests were like that -- they had one quest giver central to the quest line and insisted on talking to him on every second step of the chain.
"Oh, you went to the southern edge of Kalimdor to slay the great Foo of Bar? Good. Now go to the northern edge of Kalimdor and bring me the scrotum of the Dread Placebo! See you in two hours."
And that's not even including the ones that would send you to the other continent to do the same thing.
Of course you had to go back to him in between those two steps.
jackalFuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse.Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
I think the glyphs change will be good for scribes. I bet right now very few players actually change out their glyphs beyond buying a second set for dual spec. If you can permanently learn glyphs it will be expected that you have all your glyphs available if the need arises. "Hey druid, activate glyph of innervate.", "I haven't learned it", "Noob!". Instead of selling 12 glyphs to the average player they'll probably sell 30.
It will definitely be good for non-scribes. Being able to respec for only the respec cost will be great. I'm sure addons like Talented will add support for glyphs so players can basically have a "pay as you go" third or fourth spec.
Posts
I don't have previous MMO experience to compare it to, but I considered most of the quests back then to be pretty fun. Of course they're lame compared to the most current stuff but back then it was exciting and fresh.
It's not like car designers went from horse drawn carriage to a BMW instantly.
Edit: Not all the quests in Vanilla were like that though. Some were really hard, yes, but some were also really easy.
Edit2: I quoted you because I agree with you, not arguing about any particular point you made.
/facepalm
All I'm saying is you're comparing something build five years ago based on a standard that's relative to today.
We know now how crappy some of the quests were, but that's only because we've seen the evolution of the quest system over the past five years. But for every crappy quest in Vanilla, there's an equally awesome one/
So I'm sorry a vast majority of vanilla quests pissed you off. But the reality is if the questing system hadn't been interesting and fun for a vast majority of players, we wouldn't be talking about "vanilla" WoW, now would we?
Thanks. I'm glad to know I'm not alone.
It just seems there's been this post-expansion trend of "I played WoW back in the day and it really suck hard, and I knew how much it sucked, while everyone thought it was the greatest game ever, but not me I'm cool because I thought it totally sucked balls but played anyway look how cool I am" geese.
Essentially describes every single adventure/rpg game ever created...
Mmm, Metroidvanias.
Those, and Batman: AA.
I played wow at launch, and came to it after coming from from about 4-5 years of EverQuest, with a smattering of FFXI Shadowbane SWG CoH DAoC thrown in, and I have to say that WoWs questing system was well above all the other games that were out at the time, even the shittiest hardest quests in the goddamn game, didn't compare to how badly designed most quests were in other games. EverQuest was the worst of them all though, here's an example quest from everquest.
"Go give this vial of trolls blood to Tom."
Thats it, it doesn't tell you where Tom is, or what Tom is, it just tells you to go give the blood to Tom. As it turns out, Tom is in the middle of the fucking jungle 3 continents away surrounded by angry ghosts, who will most likely kill you. And the only way you know about this, is if someone else happened to find Tom, and went to Allakhazams and posted an article about it.
Do alliance still camp that area on PvP servers?
The Legend of Stalvan. Alliance players will likely remember it as a quasi-detective story that made you run around places, places where you've been to earlier. And it was great.
"But reVerse, you oddly capitalized poster, earlier on the page I saw you write how you hate running to places and how backtracking is stupid."
True, but I also gave examples of games that did backtracking well, namely games of the Metroidvania variety. The reason why Metroidvanias do backtracking well is that they don't just tell you to go back to Oldsville to do the exact same thing you did while you were there the first time around. Usually, they give you a new gadget like x-ray vision or the ability to turn into a bat, and then you yourself decide that hey, there were all those empty areas/holes in the roof at Oldsville, I'm gonna go there and check shit out with my new gadgets.
The Legend of Stalvan captures some of this spirit. Instead of telling you to go back to these places you've already been to so that you can kill X amount Ys, it sends you to those places so that you can uncover the mystery, the legend if you will, of Stalvan. Even though you have to run through places you've run through before (and I will never forgive Blizzard for making mounts level 40 originally), it is now for a new, interesting purpose.
There are some parts of the quest chain that are pants on head retarded in usual vanilla WoW quest design fashion, most notably Stalvan himself who was a red level mob if you did the quest as soon as it was available and who surrounded himself with quite fast respawning orange level ghouls. Another sillypoo up the hat is the early part of the quest that makes you run to Moonbrook, then back to Darkshire from where you are told to go to Elwynn Forest. Why couldn't the quest at Moonbrook just go "the letter from Stalvan talks of the Lion's Pride Inn in Elwynn Forest, go check it out". Instead it makes you no mention of that and makes you return to Darkshire where the stupid idiot of an NPC just goes "oops, I totally missed that he's lived at the Lion's Pride Inn the first time through the registry, go check that out as well". A completely needless step that could have been done away with slight alteration.
Anyway, the kind of sort of detective story-esque vibe the whole quest line emits makes it pretty good. Quests like Battle for Hillsbrad that make you run back and forth so the knobhead NPC can tell you what kind of bland, uninteresting mobs you can kill next are made of fail and poop, and it's these kinds of quests make up the majority of the experience.
I miss the days when Helcular would lay waste to all of Southshore. Ah the sweet tears of the Alliance players when that happened. I'd wait and save the final quest turn-in for when it was busy with lots of people around.
But nothing lasts forever and Blizzard nerfed the crap out of 'ol Helc.
In Duskwood there is a questline where as alliance you release a level 30 elite on Darkshire. It is too bad that Horde didn't get a quest that gave them the opportunity to give some low level Horde a bad day.
Not so much anymore. Most of the camping still takes place in STV/Tanaris.
Today I used the dungeon finder for the first time. I actually really enjoyed it, but I have a few questions in hindsight.
How do people typically pick targets in this game? Nobody was designated as a main assist at the start of the dungeon, but people seemed to kind of innately know what to target. I figured the best way would be to assist the tank, so I was targeting by selecting the tank, then hitting attack to switch to his target, then attack again to engage. As a hunter I was a bit far away to manually select each target (nor is that usually a good idea in most MMO's i've played!). Is there a different way, that people automatically kind of default to?
What's the general rule on rolling on items? I like the way WoW handles this, but I don't want to break any unwritten rules! Like, early on I won a roll on a green weapon upgrade (which I rolled need on). Later, a blue weapon dropped which would be a big upgrade from the green I just got, but considering I already won a weapon upgrade on need I thought it might be a bit rude to roll need again, so I rolled greed.
Are there situations where an item will be an upgrade for me but rolling need will lead to 4 angry people yelling "OMG YOU'RE A HUNTER AND YOU ROLLED NEED ON THAT YOU IDIOT!!!"?
Are there any other really basic tips along those lines people could offer? Every game has these 'unwritten rules' and it's good to know them
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
That should work just fine. If you see the tank's health dropping rapidly, you could use a few abilities to give the healer a bit of breathing room (scatter shot). Interrupting casts can also be quite the boon for the group, especially if it's a heal.
When it comes down to it, knowing how to help keep people alive is what separates the good DPS from the rest of the DPS. For the love of Thrall, get the hell out of the fire!
Unless otherwise stated, need if you need. You had no way of knowing for fact that the other upgrade would drop as well. Take every opportunity for an upgrade you get..
Probably. Stamina is good for everyone, so we'll ignore that stat. Hunters want agility and intelligence, with priority for agility. Ignore strength (you should be swinging your melee weapon as little as possible) and spirit. Other than that, spell power, avoidance, and expertise are all pretty useless for hunters. You get some use out of haste, but it's very minor. Crit, hit rating, and attack power are all good choices. Armor penetration is decent for you as well.
Understanding what other classes (and specs) use helps a ton in deciding what you shouldn't roll on. If you're in a group with a pally, two warriors, and a priest, you've got free reign on leather (or mail, depending on the level) that drops. If you've got a rogue, a druid, or a shaman in your group, you'll end up sharing with them. It's polite to give other players priority on a roll if you've already won something.
Target selection: Generally target casters first(especially healer types). Some dungeons might have gimmick mobs that will change the targetting priority. For example, Gnomeregan has those alarm-o-bots that summon reinforcements if not killed quickly. Or you might get a mob that silences or does some other thing that requires it die quickly. Only way to know is by experience. If another dps seems to know what they're doing might not be a bad idea to assist them.
Loot: Almost no one is going to care if you roll need on a trash drop green(so long as you're not rolling need on every single green).
General rule of thumb on world drops is to roll greed.
Boss loot drops: Basic rule of thumb here: don't be greedy and don't be a d*ck.
As a hunter you're *generally going to have priority on ranged weapons. 1H weapons you'll have competition from rogues and melee shaman. On 2H weapons you'll have competition from plate dps, feral druids, and at lower levels maybe shaman too. If it's got strength on it it's meant for the plate dps guys. You want agility and attack power. If it's got agility and it's a 2Hander it's a feral druid/hunter weapon most likely. If it has spellpower it's no good to you at all.
At lower levels you'll be rolling on leather against rogues, feral druids, and melee shaman. After level 40 you'll be rolling on mail mostly and enhancement shamans will be your competition.
Is it an upgrade? Is it ideal for your class/spec or would it benefit someone else more? Have you already won something? These are all things to consider when rolling on stuff.
*some of the ranged weapons in WoTLK raids are itemized for a plate tank and not hunters. These items have strength, stamina, and defense usually so they're easily identifiable. If the tank doesn't need it and it's a big upgrade for you in terms of raw dps you'd be justified rolling on it in that case but you generally don't want these items.
http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/pc/games/159702/features/135036.20100613.Blizzards-Greg-Street-on-new-systems-in-Cataclysm/
http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/pc/games/159702/features/135036.20100613.Blizzards-Greg-Street-on-new-systems-in-Cataclysm/
Apologies if these were posted earlier.
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Stitches! Yeah setting him loose on Darkshire and without any higher levels around he would fuck shit up all the way to Darkshire, then cleanse the town of those silly humans.
If someone stays with a guild they don't like for a smaller repair bill and a mount with a flag on it, I think they have bigger problems to deal with.
Let's wait and see some details first.
I got Loremaster.
I downed Sarth + 3 Drakes...solo healed it. Got carried by an over-the-top elitist guild who made up half the raid, but I'll never have to associate with them again.
Did Naxx and got a few more achievements that I didn't get before.
Made ass-tons of gold. I can now buy epic flying on another character, or something.
/me needs a life.
Perhaps for the rep grinding, heroic runs with the guild. The first random dungeon might give five times the amount of guild rep as the following ones. I'm sure they'll design it in a way so that a player could grind through large chunks of rep in a few days if they really wanted to.
I'm sure donating materials to the GB will help with the rep grind as well. A few checks would have to be put into place to prevent abuse of a system like that, but I don't think it would be insurmountable to pull off. Perhaps a sort of "bind to guild" effect could be added to the end game items and materials, making it so that once it's in the GB, it's tagged to the guild and no one within that guild can get credit for it again.
Plus now I can make a Dwarf hunter who's an engineer and an archaeologist! 8-)
edit: plus it's hard to spell archaeology
I would just prefer it if there's not some sort of hard coded limit to the amount of rep you could gain with them in a day, like with the oracles or frenzy heart dailies. I understand that it should involve some time, but allow the player to choose when that time should be spent.
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Already mentioned in the article. You don't lose your rep until you join a new guild.
Oh thank god. I really enjoy joke kicking my guildies.
I'm starting to get how hunters feel. A lot of best in slot lists feature a ton of ranged weapons, but no one wants to let rogues roll on them. And shit, I know I don't "need" a ring with strength on it, but it sure as shit doesn't hurt when a 264 ring drops and I still had a 200 ring.
A lot of vanilla quests were like that -- they had one quest giver central to the quest line and insisted on talking to him on every second step of the chain.
"Oh, you went to the southern edge of Kalimdor to slay the great Foo of Bar? Good. Now go to the northern edge of Kalimdor and bring me the scrotum of the Dread Placebo! See you in two hours."
And that's not even including the ones that would send you to the other continent to do the same thing.
Of course you had to go back to him in between those two steps.
Ayliana Moonwhisper Ecksus Cerazal
It will definitely be good for non-scribes. Being able to respec for only the respec cost will be great. I'm sure addons like Talented will add support for glyphs so players can basically have a "pay as you go" third or fourth spec.