Moar boyz. Thanks SJ. This is very useful as this is the first Ork list I've ever built.
Are the MegaNobz ok by themselves or should I lose them all together?
Slapnuts on
There are some acts so ruthless, some deeds so unpalatable, that only the Vlka Fenryka are capable of undertaking them. It's what we were bred for. It's the way we were designed. Without qualm or sentiment, without hesitation or whimsy. We take pride in being the only Astartes who will never, under any circumstances, refuse to strike on the Allfather's behalf, no matter what the target, no matter what the cause.
I don't have a problem with meganobz, but they get mulched by powerfists and melta-stuff. There's no way to give them an invul without taking a character you don't want to take, they're slow without transports that they really have to take (battlewagon), they don't have the wound-fuckery potential of regular nobz, can't have someone give them feel no pain, and can't get a Waaagh! banner.
But they do have 2+ saves, 2 wounds and a powerklaw. Personally I think they should be like 5 points cheaper per dude, but that doesn't mean they're bad. They're not. They're not amazing, but they are good. If you're gonna buy them a kombi-weapon, either make it a skorcha or don't bother. You won't hit with the rokkit, or even be in a decent place to use it most of the time (if you're out of a transport, you'd rather be burninating dudes or running).
At 1k points the Eldar will have very little shit on the table.
Your best bet (at this level, and usually at more levels) is more manz. Even grav tanks, roll enough boy attacks to immobilize it, then smash it with a power klaw.
Any idea what sort of eldar he's running?
Also hope he doesn't take a night spinner.
At 1k points the Eldar will have very little shit on the table.
Your best bet (at this level, and usually at more levels) is more manz. Even grav tanks, roll enough boy attacks to immobilize it, then smash it with a power klaw.
Any idea what sort of eldar he's running?
Also hope he doesn't take a night spinner.
My guess is that he's going to go with just a few tricked out troop choices as that's what he does with his wood elves. He's also going to have a farseer and a bunch of warlocks.
I'm totally not opposed to just footsloggibg 100 boys and watching him deal with that.
Slapnuts on
There are some acts so ruthless, some deeds so unpalatable, that only the Vlka Fenryka are capable of undertaking them. It's what we were bred for. It's the way we were designed. Without qualm or sentiment, without hesitation or whimsy. We take pride in being the only Astartes who will never, under any circumstances, refuse to strike on the Allfather's behalf, no matter what the target, no matter what the cause.
At 1k points the Eldar will have very little shit on the table.
Your best bet (at this level, and usually at more levels) is more manz. Even grav tanks, roll enough boy attacks to immobilize it, then smash it with a power klaw.
Any idea what sort of eldar he's running?
Also hope he doesn't take a night spinner.
My guess is that he's going to go with just a few tricked out troop choices as that's what he does with his wood elves. He's also going to have a farseer and a bunch of warlocks.
I'm totally not opposed to just footsloggibg 100 boys and watching him deal with that.
Killa Kans would also be a pretty solid choice, if you have some
Everyone keeps saying Killa Kans. I should quit screwing around and just buy some already.
PS - Where do Gretchin fit into all of this? I played a guy at my LGS when I lived in New Hampshire that used to tie my wolf guard up with the little bastards. He knew I was new to the game though, so I think he used to take them for the hell of it. What's your position on them SJ? Personally I find them hilarious and if there's ever a shot of me getting my wife to play this game, it's going to be with them.
Slapnuts on
There are some acts so ruthless, some deeds so unpalatable, that only the Vlka Fenryka are capable of undertaking them. It's what we were bred for. It's the way we were designed. Without qualm or sentiment, without hesitation or whimsy. We take pride in being the only Astartes who will never, under any circumstances, refuse to strike on the Allfather's behalf, no matter what the target, no matter what the cause.
Everyone keeps saying Killa Kans. I should quit screwing around and just buy some already.
PS - Where do Gretchin fit into all of this? I played a guy at my LGS when I lived in New Hampshire that used to tie my wolf guard up with the little bastards. He knew I was new to the game though, so I think he used to take them for the hell of it. What's your position on them SJ? Personally I find them hilarious and if there's ever a shot of me getting my wife to play this game, it's going to be with them.
I think that if you like Grots, then min-maxing be damned.
Everyone keeps saying Killa Kans. I should quit screwing around and just buy some already.
PS - Where do Gretchin fit into all of this? I played a guy at my LGS when I lived in New Hampshire that used to tie my wolf guard up with the little bastards. He knew I was new to the game though, so I think he used to take them for the hell of it. What's your position on them SJ? Personally I find them hilarious and if there's ever a shot of me getting my wife to play this game, it's going to be with them.
I think that if you like Grots, then min-maxing be damned.
Use the Grots!
Indeed. This is going to be my cousin's first use of Eldar, ever. I mean, he's bringing his battleforce and warlocks still in their packages for me and him to assemble.
And even though I've sent him the link to this thread to start reading up and/or ask for advice, I'm about 900% sure he hasn't done that. So the list that I'm going to build is going to be half forum wisdom, and half shenanigans that'll make me (and him) giggle like a little girl. I want the first few games he gets in to at least be somewhat funny. I was only half serious when I said I wanted to table him in two turns. (Even though those fucking wood elves of his have done that to me on more than one occasion.)
However, when I go to play the neckbeards, that's where the advice/min-maxing is going to come in handy. :winky: I truly do value the experience presented here.
If I start winning with Orks at the lgs, SJ, you get to name my warboss.
Slapnuts on
There are some acts so ruthless, some deeds so unpalatable, that only the Vlka Fenryka are capable of undertaking them. It's what we were bred for. It's the way we were designed. Without qualm or sentiment, without hesitation or whimsy. We take pride in being the only Astartes who will never, under any circumstances, refuse to strike on the Allfather's behalf, no matter what the target, no matter what the cause.
I don't have a problem with meganobz, but they get mulched by powerfists and melta-stuff. There's no way to give them an invul without taking a character you don't want to take, they're slow without transports that they really have to take (battlewagon), they don't have the wound-fuckery potential of regular nobz, can't have someone give them feel no pain, and can't get a Waaagh! banner.
But they do have 2+ saves, 2 wounds and a powerklaw. Personally I think they should be like 5 points cheaper per dude, but that doesn't mean they're bad. They're not. They're not amazing, but they are good. If you're gonna buy them a kombi-weapon, either make it a skorcha or don't bother. You won't hit with the rokkit, or even be in a decent place to use it most of the time (if you're out of a transport, you'd rather be burninating dudes or running).
Actually, you can use the kombi-weapons to get some wound allocation shennanigans. Just not the variety nobs have.
Don't take grots, they suck. They'd be alright if they were like 2 points.
I have to disagree. Grots aren't as versitial as boyz, but they still have their uses. For 67 points, you get a 19 grot + herder squad, which can be used to hold objectives (go to ground for a 3+ cover), a screen, a tarpit, or a sacrifice force.
Also, if you want to run a horde against your eldar friend, you can take 4 mobs of 30 boyz each with a pk nob, and a kff mek for 985 points.
Don't take grots, they suck. They'd be alright if they were like 2 points.
I have to disagree. Grots aren't as versitial as boyz, but they still have their uses. For 67 points, you get a 19 grot + herder squad, which can be used to hold objectives (go to ground for a 3+ cover), a screen, a tarpit, or a sacrifice force.
Rules as written, yes, you'd need one herder. Rules as intended? You'd need two.
I love grots too, but nowdays they rarely find a place in my lists. Even with just one herder and at 67 points, with toughness 2 and without mob rule you're not tarpitting anything. They simply aren't a threat. Sure they can hold an objective due to sheer numbers, but at least the 11 orks with shootas you could buy for 66 points would provide both shooting and a number of respectable attacks on the charge. And with toughness 4 and going to ground you still have a unit that's probably as good at holding that objective.
Best use for them? Ablative wounds for a Mek with Shokk Attack Gun and Bosspole (better to roll/reroll LD9 than LD7. And they'd get mod rule from the Mek)
Grots can be decent in a competitive list. They have one real use - to surround the lootas, preventing your lootas from being assaulted for one turn. One extra turn of loota shooting can make a real difference, for that low price anyway.
Listen, grots suck. You're paying half as much as a boy for less than half the utility. It doesn't matter if you could spend 70 points on a unit that will hold an objective (which they won't, because a scout squad or something will rape them off of it in a heartbeat), when you could pay, like, 170 points for a unit of boyz in a Trukk. With a powerklaw. There's no comparison. Grots suck, and it has nothing to do with min-maxing. They are a bad unit. They kill themselves in droves to re-roll Ld tests, have terrible leadership, and can't use Mob rule. They are bad.
SJ on
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Grots are nice to think about, but they're a clear case of as soon as you think of something else you can spend the points on, you realize immediately that there are better options.
The way I see it, there are 6 troop choices allowed, so any self respecting Ork army needs to have at least 180 Grots and 18 Runt Herders. I'm talking bare minimum here.
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
Listen, grots suck. You're paying half as much as a boy for less than half the utility. It doesn't matter if you could spend 70 points on a unit that will hold an objective (which they won't, because a scout squad or something will rape them off of it in a heartbeat), when you could pay, like, 170 points for a unit of boyz in a Trukk. With a powerklaw. There's no comparison. Grots suck, and it has nothing to do with min-maxing. They are a bad unit. They kill themselves in droves to re-roll Ld tests, have terrible leadership, and can't use Mob rule. They are bad.
Players ignore grots. If you put them on a back-line objective, they will camp it and no one will notice and go after them.
Listen, grots suck. You're paying half as much as a boy for less than half the utility. It doesn't matter if you could spend 70 points on a unit that will hold an objective (which they won't, because a scout squad or something will rape them off of it in a heartbeat), when you could pay, like, 170 points for a unit of boyz in a Trukk. With a powerklaw. There's no comparison. Grots suck, and it has nothing to do with min-maxing. They are a bad unit. They kill themselves in droves to re-roll Ld tests, have terrible leadership, and can't use Mob rule. They are bad.
Players ignore grots. If you put them on a back-line objective, they will camp it and no one will notice and go after them.
That's not true at all. A single unit of outflankers will charge your grots + something else, and take them both out in one go. A single weaponless rhino can tank shock them off the board. The backfield is never a safe place, especially for grots all by themselves.
The way I see it, there are 6 troop choices allowed, so any self respecting Ork army needs to have at least 180 Grots and 18 Runt Herders. I'm talking bare minimum here.
Blood Angel players require extra help to win games, news at 11.
Listen, grots suck. You're paying half as much as a boy for less than half the utility. It doesn't matter if you could spend 70 points on a unit that will hold an objective (which they won't, because a scout squad or something will rape them off of it in a heartbeat), when you could pay, like, 170 points for a unit of boyz in a Trukk. With a powerklaw. There's no comparison. Grots suck, and it has nothing to do with min-maxing. They are a bad unit. They kill themselves in droves to re-roll Ld tests, have terrible leadership, and can't use Mob rule. They are bad.
Players ignore grots. If you put them on a back-line objective, they will camp it and no one will notice and go after them.
If they are on an objective and the opponent ignores them then he's pretty dumb. Because, you know... objective?
It Burns on
The slowest painter. Ever.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
The way I see it, there are 6 troop choices allowed, so any self respecting Ork army needs to have at least 180 Grots and 18 Runt Herders. I'm talking bare minimum here.
Blood Angel players require extra help to win games, news at 11.
You know you laughed.
I will echo the "the backfield is never a safe place" sentiment. I don't even like having Ld10 along my board edge
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
Grots are cool. I'm a fan of a 40 point unit that can sit on an objective, or just be an annoyance. Not saying they're great by any means, especially because the ork codex has a lot of great shit, but I like them well enough.
Still though, ork armies never have enough burna boys. Burna's are bestest.
So, I played my first game of 5th edition 40k today. Got alot of compliments on what I have painted (partially or fully) as well as Tim's Freebootas. Played against a Spacewolf Gunline with my foot horde ork. Deployment: Spearhead. Mission: One objective in each deployment zone.
So, between the deployment and mission type, the best I could expect to get was a draw, as I simply wouldn't be able to get the minimum of 36" across the board to get to his objective. The Space Wolf player deployed all his stuff decently back from the deployment edge in cover, so I had a really long walk across before I could get to him. Unfortunately, not enough of my stuff made it through to kill his, although I did take out his Terminator HQ. Once my mostly decimated forces made it to his lines, I didn't have enough to take his attacks and survive to attack myself in any meaningful way.
I learned alot, like:
KFF is awesome! That thing easily saved 30 ork lives in the march up the field.
Shokk Attakk Gun is awesome! I never would have bought and fielded one myself, but that 95 pt mek more than paid for himself, wiping out an entire squad of grey hunters.
Deploy my nobs at the front of the squads. Since I'll be pulling casualties from the back usually, I don't want to get stuck having to daisy chain to the nob to keep coherency. This was one of, if not my biggest mistake, as it slowed the entire army down.
Don't run if you don't need too. I missed an assault because I didn't think about this.
Also, my run dice were cursed. I only rolled above a two twice during the entire game, despite running every turn with 5 boyz mobs (later to be 3 boyz mobs). The two good runs were fives, on the squad in the back.
I definately am going to get a mechanized list going now. The LGSs owner's birthday was today, so they had a bbq for everyone who came to play. I wasn't planning on buying anything other than a couple of paint pots, but I decided to go ahead and get a Battlewagon since they were so nice. I also have an old LRC I will convert, a Trukk I got in a trade, and a dakka pred I could convert to another trukk.
Thanks for all the great advice and tips you guys have given, it helped alot.
*edit*
Star player of the game: Long Fangs. Average of 17 hits per turn against my boyz, and usually around 10 kills after saves. Oh frag missiles, how do I hate thee.
I took first place at the tournament today. I'd have had 3 wins but the first game a fluke caused 2 grey hunters squads to be wiped by a BA Assault squad, go figure.
Star of the tourney was my SS/TH thunderwolf, who, when I got charged by another squad of thunderwolves (3 + a lord) who all had stormshield, managed to hit 3 times, and wound 3 times on the squad. They ALL failed their 3+ SS saves and went fuckign SPLAT causing him to lose combat by 6 which thusly killed his lord in no-retreat wounds. We were going nuts over that one, even the other player was laughing.
My list was fairly solid and even though they allow fucking LUCIUS PATTERN DROP PODS to be used in the tournament, I still won because the only time I faced one, he charged my wolf lord out of it, and my lord has melta bombs that hit on a 3+ and he blew the fuck out of that shit.
I took first place at the tournament today. I'd have had 3 wins but the first game a fluke caused 2 grey hunters squads to be wiped by a BA Assault squad, go figure.
Star of the tourney was my SS/TH thunderwolf, who, when I got charged by another squad of thunderwolves (3 + a lord) who all had stormshield, managed to hit 3 times, and wound 3 times on the squad. They ALL failed their 3+ SS saves and went fuckign SPLAT causing him to lose combat by 6 which thusly killed his lord in no-retreat wounds. We were going nuts over that one, even the other player was laughing.
My list was fairly solid and even though they allow fucking LUCIUS PATTERN DROP PODS to be used in the tournament, I still won because the only time I faced one, he charged my wolf lord out of it, and my lord has melta bombs that hit on a 3+ and he blew the fuck out of that shit.
GG. I bought a basilisk with my winnings.
tough break for the other player, sometimes all you can do is laugh at your dice lol. also: that's what he gets for placing space puppies; your time will come!
Posts
Are the MegaNobz ok by themselves or should I lose them all together?
But they do have 2+ saves, 2 wounds and a powerklaw. Personally I think they should be like 5 points cheaper per dude, but that doesn't mean they're bad. They're not. They're not amazing, but they are good. If you're gonna buy them a kombi-weapon, either make it a skorcha or don't bother. You won't hit with the rokkit, or even be in a decent place to use it most of the time (if you're out of a transport, you'd rather be burninating dudes or running).
Your best bet (at this level, and usually at more levels) is more manz. Even grav tanks, roll enough boy attacks to immobilize it, then smash it with a power klaw.
Any idea what sort of eldar he's running?
Also hope he doesn't take a night spinner.
IT's free and it's from valve and there are already 40k skins for it so it's basically space hulk.
steam ID is: altmann (go figure!)
"Oh what a day, what a LOVELY DAY!"
As soon as I get steam to stop crashing on startup, I'm there. Also, once I finish moving?
My guess is that he's going to go with just a few tricked out troop choices as that's what he does with his wood elves. He's also going to have a farseer and a bunch of warlocks.
I'm totally not opposed to just footsloggibg 100 boys and watching him deal with that.
What, where did you get the 40k skins?
I also wanna know where you get the 40k skins but I'm dling now fo sho fool
SC2: XxKhrushchev.539
Killa Kans would also be a pretty solid choice, if you have some
PS - Where do Gretchin fit into all of this? I played a guy at my LGS when I lived in New Hampshire that used to tie my wolf guard up with the little bastards. He knew I was new to the game though, so I think he used to take them for the hell of it. What's your position on them SJ? Personally I find them hilarious and if there's ever a shot of me getting my wife to play this game, it's going to be with them.
Or a Killa Kan with Skorcha for 40 points.
I think that if you like Grots, then min-maxing be damned.
Use the Grots!
Indeed. This is going to be my cousin's first use of Eldar, ever. I mean, he's bringing his battleforce and warlocks still in their packages for me and him to assemble.
And even though I've sent him the link to this thread to start reading up and/or ask for advice, I'm about 900% sure he hasn't done that. So the list that I'm going to build is going to be half forum wisdom, and half shenanigans that'll make me (and him) giggle like a little girl. I want the first few games he gets in to at least be somewhat funny. I was only half serious when I said I wanted to table him in two turns. (Even though those fucking wood elves of his have done that to me on more than one occasion.)
However, when I go to play the neckbeards, that's where the advice/min-maxing is going to come in handy. :winky: I truly do value the experience presented here.
If I start winning with Orks at the lgs, SJ, you get to name my warboss.
Actually, you can use the kombi-weapons to get some wound allocation shennanigans. Just not the variety nobs have.
I have to disagree. Grots aren't as versitial as boyz, but they still have their uses. For 67 points, you get a 19 grot + herder squad, which can be used to hold objectives (go to ground for a 3+ cover), a screen, a tarpit, or a sacrifice force.
Also, if you want to run a horde against your eldar friend, you can take 4 mobs of 30 boyz each with a pk nob, and a kff mek for 985 points.
I Spent 90% of my Money on Women and Warhammer. The Rest I Wasted.
Rules as written, yes, you'd need one herder. Rules as intended? You'd need two.
I love grots too, but nowdays they rarely find a place in my lists. Even with just one herder and at 67 points, with toughness 2 and without mob rule you're not tarpitting anything. They simply aren't a threat. Sure they can hold an objective due to sheer numbers, but at least the 11 orks with shootas you could buy for 66 points would provide both shooting and a number of respectable attacks on the charge. And with toughness 4 and going to ground you still have a unit that's probably as good at holding that objective.
Best use for them? Ablative wounds for a Mek with Shokk Attack Gun and Bosspole (better to roll/reroll LD9 than LD7. And they'd get mod rule from the Mek)
Like gunning down marbo.
Players ignore grots. If you put them on a back-line objective, they will camp it and no one will notice and go after them.
That's not true at all. A single unit of outflankers will charge your grots + something else, and take them both out in one go. A single weaponless rhino can tank shock them off the board. The backfield is never a safe place, especially for grots all by themselves.
Blood Angel players require extra help to win games, news at 11.
If they are on an objective and the opponent ignores them then he's pretty dumb. Because, you know... objective?
You know you laughed.
I will echo the "the backfield is never a safe place" sentiment. I don't even like having Ld10 along my board edge
Still though, ork armies never have enough burna boys. Burna's are bestest.
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
So, between the deployment and mission type, the best I could expect to get was a draw, as I simply wouldn't be able to get the minimum of 36" across the board to get to his objective. The Space Wolf player deployed all his stuff decently back from the deployment edge in cover, so I had a really long walk across before I could get to him. Unfortunately, not enough of my stuff made it through to kill his, although I did take out his Terminator HQ. Once my mostly decimated forces made it to his lines, I didn't have enough to take his attacks and survive to attack myself in any meaningful way.
I learned alot, like:
KFF is awesome! That thing easily saved 30 ork lives in the march up the field.
Shokk Attakk Gun is awesome! I never would have bought and fielded one myself, but that 95 pt mek more than paid for himself, wiping out an entire squad of grey hunters.
Deploy my nobs at the front of the squads. Since I'll be pulling casualties from the back usually, I don't want to get stuck having to daisy chain to the nob to keep coherency. This was one of, if not my biggest mistake, as it slowed the entire army down.
Don't run if you don't need too. I missed an assault because I didn't think about this.
Also, my run dice were cursed. I only rolled above a two twice during the entire game, despite running every turn with 5 boyz mobs (later to be 3 boyz mobs). The two good runs were fives, on the squad in the back.
I definately am going to get a mechanized list going now. The LGSs owner's birthday was today, so they had a bbq for everyone who came to play. I wasn't planning on buying anything other than a couple of paint pots, but I decided to go ahead and get a Battlewagon since they were so nice. I also have an old LRC I will convert, a Trukk I got in a trade, and a dakka pred I could convert to another trukk.
Thanks for all the great advice and tips you guys have given, it helped alot.
*edit*
Star player of the game: Long Fangs. Average of 17 hits per turn against my boyz, and usually around 10 kills after saves. Oh frag missiles, how do I hate thee.
In other news:
I took first place at the tournament today. I'd have had 3 wins but the first game a fluke caused 2 grey hunters squads to be wiped by a BA Assault squad, go figure.
Star of the tourney was my SS/TH thunderwolf, who, when I got charged by another squad of thunderwolves (3 + a lord) who all had stormshield, managed to hit 3 times, and wound 3 times on the squad. They ALL failed their 3+ SS saves and went fuckign SPLAT causing him to lose combat by 6 which thusly killed his lord in no-retreat wounds. We were going nuts over that one, even the other player was laughing.
My list was fairly solid and even though they allow fucking LUCIUS PATTERN DROP PODS to be used in the tournament, I still won because the only time I faced one, he charged my wolf lord out of it, and my lord has melta bombs that hit on a 3+ and he blew the fuck out of that shit.
GG. I bought a basilisk with my winnings.
"Oh what a day, what a LOVELY DAY!"
tough break for the other player, sometimes all you can do is laugh at your dice lol. also: that's what he gets for placing space puppies; your time will come!
Crazy.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Only with walkers, because they have a weapon skill.
Then you combine it with Beast Slayer...
That's just cheeky.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.