if you had said only "yes," i would have understood your stance. but if you're an atheist, why would you continue to believe in the power of those sacraments to define a person? it seems to me that believing the B/E/C renders you ineffably Catholic requires a belief in some supernatural power that marks a person through ritual.
if a Catholic who believes the sacraments have supernatural power says that anyone who is baptized etc. is a catholic forever, that seems consistent to me. otherwise i'm not sure what the basis of the definition is.
Why does there need to be a supernatural element? The cultural/social elements seem strong enough on the face of it.
What is wrong with hating on people for their religious beliefs, if their religious beliefs are retarded, hurtful, or wrong?
Why are "religious beliefs" a protected class of beliefs? We can hate on people for having wrong, hurtful, or retarded opinions on any other matter.
There's a gigantic, canyon-wide difference between criticizing someone for their actual, professed beliefs and hating on someone who self-identifies as a member of a religious group for doing so yet not having the beliefs that you arbitrarily demand they must have in order to consider themselves part of that religious group.
I'm not doing the latter.
Not you, personally, but every single religious discussion in D&D is always chock full to the fucking rafters of people doing the latter while claiming they're only doing the former.
At this point it's the snarky atheist version of "when did you stop beating your wife?" and signals to me that the poster involved is far more interested in scoring enough cheap "people of faith are either evil or stupid" points to earn a Dawkins bobblehead than actually having any rational discussion.
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
so is now a good time to get a kindle or is there something better coming out right around the corner?
Yeah. I hear it's called paper. It's awesome.
have you ever had to move? physical books greatly lose their charm when you've moved 3 times in 4 years and they compose 80% by weight of your possessions.
I mean, I really love them. I love reading, looking at them, keeping them in great shape, etc. I kind of have a collector's mentality. But I'm ready to move on for practical reasons. The amount of space they consume is ridiculous, and as I mentioned previously, they're a bitch to move.
You are making so little sense it is hurting my brain. I'm developing brain problems now.
I am not a Catholic. I could give a shit less what the Catholic church considers me. If you agree with the Catholic church in their assessment of you as still, in some sense, Catholic, you are infinitely more a Catholic than I will ever be until the day I die.
Do not lump me in with you.
w/e
Sure let's go with that.
Elldren on
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
edited April 2011
i used to really go after people for their religious beliefs when i was young. i'd get really self-righteous about their stupid and harmful beliefs etc.
i don't really do that anymore. i guess i don't really see it as productive. i don't think that my adopting that tone has ever changed anyone's mind. mostly, it just makes the person in question think that i'm a confrontational asshole and maybe that all atheists are assholes.
when the Church says "you're a Catholic," referring to rituals and catechisms and dogma that they believe/create, it is different from when a layperson says "you're a Catholic," because they don't necessarily believe all that Church-based information
usually it does not refer to your spiritual nature, it refers to what category of beliefs you hold. this category is defined through the stance of the Catholic church, since that is the nature of Catholicism - belief organized through the institution.
if you therefore say that you're Catholic, but don't agree with the Catholic church on most issues, then for this person you have contradicted yourself, because they don't believe in or care about what the Church says about what makes a person a Catholic.
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
if you therefore say that you're Catholic, but don't agree with the Catholic church on most issues, then for this person you have contradicted yourself, because they don't believe in or care about what the Church says about what makes a person a Catholic.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
i used to really go after people for their religious beliefs when i was young. i'd get really self-righteous about their stupid and harmful beliefs etc.
i don't really do that anymore. i guess i don't really see it as productive. i don't think that my adopting that tone has ever changed anyone's mind. mostly, it just makes the person in question think that i'm a confrontational asshole and maybe that all atheists are assholes.
in spite of being considered something of a jerk at times (shocking, I know), i've never been confrontational on stuff like that. nothings gained from it and it's needlessly antagonistic.
I think you're out of line here. Catholicism is about a belief and about living to a standard, not stepping in line with how society expects.
So, you're of the hipster branch of Catholicism? You're Catholic, but only ironically?
Like, seriously, it's not me who says you can't be Catholic and pro-choice; it's the fucking Catholic Church. Don't believe me? Read on.
You're assuming I care what the Church thinks.
if you don't care what the Church thinks, why do you call yourself a Catholic, and what makes a person a Catholic (if not agreeing with the Church)?
Elldren said it's the sacraments, but if you don't agree with the Catholic church, then you don't agree with their dogma on the sacraments, so what is the defining characteristic?
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
The Adventures of TLCCOTTAKAH&B and Catholic Mike: Now with more poop
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
so is now a good time to get a kindle or is there something better coming out right around the corner?
Yeah. I hear it's called paper. It's awesome.
have you ever had to move? physical books greatly lose their charm when you've moved 3 times in 4 years and they compose 80% by weight of your possessions.
I mean, I really love them. I love reading, looking at them, keeping them in great shape, etc. I kind of have a collector's mentality. But I'm ready to move on for practical reasons. The amount of space they consume is ridiculous, and as I mentioned previously, they're a bitch to move.
I definitely, once I have the werewithal, am planning to ditch all of my library that can be gotten on ereader except for the really important physical objects like the hardcover first editions and the signed copies and so forth.
so is now a good time to get a kindle or is there something better coming out right around the corner?
Yeah. I hear it's called paper. It's awesome.
have you ever had to move? physical books greatly lose their charm when you've moved 3 times in 4 years and they compose 80% by weight of your possessions.
I mean, I really love them. I love reading, looking at them, keeping them in great shape, etc. I kind of have a collector's mentality. But I'm ready to move on for practical reasons. The amount of space they consume is ridiculous, and as I mentioned previously, they're a bitch to move.
if you therefore say that you're Catholic, but don't agree with the Catholic church on most issues, then for this person you have contradicted yourself, because they don't believe in or care about what the Church says about what makes a person a Catholic.
knocked it out of the park
my caveat is that if you do believe in the Church's theological stance, like the sacraments making you Catholic, but you disagree with them on say gay marriage or abortion, you're still a Catholic.
but if you disagree with them on everything and the only thing you agree on is that sacraments make people Catholic, that's weird, to me.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
when the Church says "you're a Catholic," referring to rituals and catechisms and dogma that they believe/create, it is different from when a layperson says "you're a Catholic," because they don't necessarily believe all that Church-based information
usually it does not refer to your spiritual nature, it refers to what category of beliefs you hold. this category is defined through the stance of the Catholic church, since that is the nature of Catholicism - belief organized through the institution.
if you therefore say that you're Catholic, but don't agree with the Catholic church on most issues, then for this person you have contradicted yourself, because they don't believe in or care about what the Church says about what makes a person a Catholic.
Why are the positions always "I don't care what the church thinks about anything" and "I believe in everything the church says, even stuff that isn't pronounced ex-cathedra"
so is now a good time to get a kindle or is there something better coming out right around the corner?
Yeah. I hear it's called paper. It's awesome.
have you ever had to move? physical books greatly lose their charm when you've moved 3 times in 4 years and they compose 80% by weight of your possessions.
I mean, I really love them. I love reading, looking at them, keeping them in great shape, etc. I kind of have a collector's mentality. But I'm ready to move on for practical reasons. The amount of space they consume is ridiculous, and as I mentioned previously, they're a bitch to move.
I definitely, once I have the werewithal, am planning to ditch all of my library that can be gotten on ereader except for the really important physical objects like the hardcover first editions and the signed copies and so forth.
When I moved to Seattle, I got rid of all but a couple of my books.
Best idea I ever had. Seriously, it's so awesome not having all that crap; you won't read 95% of them ever again, so they're just taking up way too much room. Get rid of all the books you can.
I think you're out of line here. Catholicism is about a belief and about living to a standard, not stepping in line with how society expects.
So, you're of the hipster branch of Catholicism? You're Catholic, but only ironically?
Like, seriously, it's not me who says you can't be Catholic and pro-choice; it's the fucking Catholic Church. Don't believe me? Read on.
You're assuming I care what the Church thinks.
if you don't care what the Church thinks, why do you call yourself a Catholic, and what makes a person a Catholic (if not agreeing with the Church)?
Elldren said it's the sacraments, but if you don't agree with the Catholic church, then you don't agree with their dogma on the sacraments, so what is the defining characteristic?
As I said, belief and personal standards. That's just me. I don't entirely disagree with the Catholic Church, but I do disagree with their short-sighted views on acceptance and tolerance; or lack thereof.
And yes; I primarily disagree with them regarding things like gay rights and abortion.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
edited April 2011
ow motheFUVCK I have bitten on this same spot in my mouth like three times already
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
I have a Nook, but if I had to do it again, I would probably get a Kindle.
Seems to be fairing better market wise.
Amazon KO'ed Borders and I think B&N is in some danger as well, even though they did realize that e-readers are a big deal.
Also, a couple of blockbusters are closing down around here and their closing banners read, "Store closing. This location only!" Kind of re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic there, blockbuster. and pretty wishful thinking. They were retarded and sluggish in their reaction to Netflix.
I think you're out of line here. Catholicism is about a belief and about living to a standard, not stepping in line with how society expects.
So, you're of the hipster branch of Catholicism? You're Catholic, but only ironically?
Like, seriously, it's not me who says you can't be Catholic and pro-choice; it's the fucking Catholic Church. Don't believe me? Read on.
You're assuming I care what the Church thinks.
if you don't care what the Church thinks, why do you call yourself a Catholic, and what makes a person a Catholic (if not agreeing with the Church)?
Elldren said it's the sacraments, but if you don't agree with the Catholic church, then you don't agree with their dogma on the sacraments, so what is the defining characteristic?
Except we're talking about membership in (essentially) a community or organization, so using the actual membership rules of that community or organization makes a whole lot more sense than using the rules some random dude on the internet makes up in order to tell someone else how stupid they are.
when the Church says "you're a Catholic," referring to rituals and catechisms and dogma that they believe/create, it is different from when a layperson says "you're a Catholic," because they don't necessarily believe all that Church-based information
usually it does not refer to your spiritual nature, it refers to what category of beliefs you hold. this category is defined through the stance of the Catholic church, since that is the nature of Catholicism - belief organized through the institution.
if you therefore say that you're Catholic, but don't agree with the Catholic church on most issues, then for this person you have contradicted yourself, because they don't believe in or care about what the Church says about what makes a person a Catholic.
Why are the positions always "I don't care what the church thinks about anything" and "I believe in everything the church says, even stuff that isn't pronounced ex-cathedra"
Seems like a false dichotomy.
Could you explain what makes this one thing so much different from pretty much every other thing the Church says?
so is now a good time to get a kindle or is there something better coming out right around the corner?
Yeah. I hear it's called paper. It's awesome.
have you ever had to move? physical books greatly lose their charm when you've moved 3 times in 4 years and they compose 80% by weight of your possessions.
I mean, I really love them. I love reading, looking at them, keeping them in great shape, etc. I kind of have a collector's mentality. But I'm ready to move on for practical reasons. The amount of space they consume is ridiculous, and as I mentioned previously, they're a bitch to move.
I definitely, once I have the werewithal, am planning to ditch all of my library that can be gotten on ereader except for the really important physical objects like the hardcover first editions and the signed copies and so forth.
what about your comics and graphic novels?
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
so is now a good time to get a kindle or is there something better coming out right around the corner?
Yeah. I hear it's called paper. It's awesome.
have you ever had to move? physical books greatly lose their charm when you've moved 3 times in 4 years and they compose 80% by weight of your possessions.
I mean, I really love them. I love reading, looking at them, keeping them in great shape, etc. I kind of have a collector's mentality. But I'm ready to move on for practical reasons. The amount of space they consume is ridiculous, and as I mentioned previously, they're a bitch to move.
I definitely, once I have the werewithal, am planning to ditch all of my library that can be gotten on ereader except for the really important physical objects like the hardcover first editions and the signed copies and so forth.
When I moved to Seattle, I got rid of all but a couple of my books.
Best idea I ever had. Seriously, it's so awesome not having all that crap; you won't read 95% of them ever again, so they're just taking up way too much room. Get rid of all the books you can.
Posts
Why does there need to be a supernatural element? The cultural/social elements seem strong enough on the face of it.
Not you, personally, but every single religious discussion in D&D is always chock full to the fucking rafters of people doing the latter while claiming they're only doing the former.
At this point it's the snarky atheist version of "when did you stop beating your wife?" and signals to me that the poster involved is far more interested in scoring enough cheap "people of faith are either evil or stupid" points to earn a Dawkins bobblehead than actually having any rational discussion.
have you ever had to move? physical books greatly lose their charm when you've moved 3 times in 4 years and they compose 80% by weight of your possessions.
I mean, I really love them. I love reading, looking at them, keeping them in great shape, etc. I kind of have a collector's mentality. But I'm ready to move on for practical reasons. The amount of space they consume is ridiculous, and as I mentioned previously, they're a bitch to move.
w/e
Sure let's go with that.
i don't really do that anymore. i guess i don't really see it as productive. i don't think that my adopting that tone has ever changed anyone's mind. mostly, it just makes the person in question think that i'm a confrontational asshole and maybe that all atheists are assholes.
when the Church says "you're a Catholic," referring to rituals and catechisms and dogma that they believe/create, it is different from when a layperson says "you're a Catholic," because they don't necessarily believe all that Church-based information
usually it does not refer to your spiritual nature, it refers to what category of beliefs you hold. this category is defined through the stance of the Catholic church, since that is the nature of Catholicism - belief organized through the institution.
if you therefore say that you're Catholic, but don't agree with the Catholic church on most issues, then for this person you have contradicted yourself, because they don't believe in or care about what the Church says about what makes a person a Catholic.
the nook color isn't e-ink though.
Never not bein' all Catholic and stuff
That kinda sucks if all a person is looking for is an e-reader. Especially since it doesn't have e-ink.
in spite of being considered something of a jerk at times (shocking, I know), i've never been confrontational on stuff like that. nothings gained from it and it's needlessly antagonistic.
You would totally have a Hamburger on Good Friday.
if you don't care what the Church thinks, why do you call yourself a Catholic, and what makes a person a Catholic (if not agreeing with the Church)?
Elldren said it's the sacraments, but if you don't agree with the Catholic church, then you don't agree with their dogma on the sacraments, so what is the defining characteristic?
Seems to be fairing better market wise.
I definitely, once I have the werewithal, am planning to ditch all of my library that can be gotten on ereader except for the really important physical objects like the hardcover first editions and the signed copies and so forth.
I fear for the world without paper.
Yeah. I'm happy enough with mine, but the screen on the bottom's pointless and just serves as a method of draining my battery.
Got 95 theses to hammer into my monitor.
my caveat is that if you do believe in the Church's theological stance, like the sacraments making you Catholic, but you disagree with them on say gay marriage or abortion, you're still a Catholic.
but if you disagree with them on everything and the only thing you agree on is that sacraments make people Catholic, that's weird, to me.
Exactly.
I don't like fish.
Therefore, I would be a terrible Catholic.
I do take the Holy Week off every year though...
Why are the positions always "I don't care what the church thinks about anything" and "I believe in everything the church says, even stuff that isn't pronounced ex-cathedra"
Seems like a false dichotomy.
Best idea I ever had. Seriously, it's so awesome not having all that crap; you won't read 95% of them ever again, so they're just taking up way too much room. Get rid of all the books you can.
As I said, belief and personal standards. That's just me. I don't entirely disagree with the Catholic Church, but I do disagree with their short-sighted views on acceptance and tolerance; or lack thereof.
And yes; I primarily disagree with them regarding things like gay rights and abortion.
brb nailin shit to a church door
Amazon KO'ed Borders and I think B&N is in some danger as well, even though they did realize that e-readers are a big deal.
Also, a couple of blockbusters are closing down around here and their closing banners read, "Store closing. This location only!" Kind of re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic there, blockbuster. and pretty wishful thinking. They were retarded and sluggish in their reaction to Netflix.
Except we're talking about membership in (essentially) a community or organization, so using the actual membership rules of that community or organization makes a whole lot more sense than using the rules some random dude on the internet makes up in order to tell someone else how stupid they are.
George Lucas gonna sue somebody.
what about your comics and graphic novels?
I guess I'm pretty dumb then
Hell. Why not burn them?