So how much money is the Mormon Church going to spend interfering with another state's vote?
Is it wrong to hope a LOT?
I want to see their bottom-line suffer, and for them to lose more members like they did after Prop 8.
I don't know much about it, but I'd say it's wrong. Aren't churches usually spending most of their money on charitable stuff? Like food and clothes for the needy and such?
They spent thousands towards to the Pop 8 vote in CA. We can have a charity that doesn't support bigotry on the side.
They essentially utilized the church's organization to funnel both cash and support in the form of bodies to advocate for a particular political outcome. Which is a big, big no no. In a just world in which we followed the law we would have revoked the entire church's tax exempt status in a heartbeat.
If you stop businesses from discriminating against transpeople, it opens bathrooms for child molesters.
My mouth is hanging open. I don't know what to say.
You say "thank you, the South, for making me feel so much better about where I live."
Its not just the south. This kind of transphobia and trans discrimination happens EVERYWHERE. Even in places where we have protections in place for gender identity and expression.
I have seen trans people get harassed/kicked out of bathrooms in LGBT centers in California. Its fucking depressing. If an LGBT center isnt even a safe space to pee... I really don't know where is.
I can understand feeling a bit awkward when you're not used to trans people in the bathroom, but to take it as far as getting involved in their business? God what is wrong with people
This is from the creator of South Park's new musical: The Book of Mormon. Just watch it. Watch it. It's hilarious.
Elder McKinley is one of the other missionaries who is sent to Africa along with Price and Cunningham. He laments his homosexual feelings, but reminds himself to "Turn It Off" like a light switch. The others agree that their feelings must be hidden, at all costs.
This is from the creator of South Park's new musical: The Book of Mormon. Just watch it. Watch it. It's hilarious.
Elder McKinley is one of the other missionaries who is sent to Africa along with Price and Cunningham. He laments his homosexual feelings, but reminds himself to "Turn It Off" like a light switch. The others agree that their feelings must be hidden, at all costs.
Hey, that's the guy who did Princeton orginally in Avenue Q, John Tartaglia. Also, that's not even vaguely amusing. South Park dude hast lost his mojo.
I have seen trans people get harassed/kicked out of bathrooms in LGBT centers in California. Its fucking depressing. If an LGBT center isnt even a safe space to pee... I really don't know where is.
What? How does that even work?
"We don't take kindly to our your type round here"
I have seen trans people get harassed/kicked out of bathrooms in LGBT centers in California. Its fucking depressing. If an LGBT center isnt even a safe space to pee... I really don't know where is.
What? How does that even work?
"We don't take kindly to our your type round here"
Its kind of mind boggling, but there are plenty instances where LGB folk still think of the T peeps as freaks and infiltrators and impostors and the like. Granted, all in all, larger cities in CA are still some of the better places to be trans, but its not like the problems are JUST located in the south/rural areas. Heck often times the more conservative areas can be easier for trans people in that you can generally blend in with the populace easier. People are not as aware of it or can't imagine a trans person MIGHT be among them. So you can slip on thru easier.
San Diego. And we did raise hell. But often the damage is already done. Especially if its someone who is JUST starting to come out, and told "this is a safe space, where you can be yourself without fear" and then to have that shot down is INCREDIBLY damaging. Granted its a rare occurrence, but it HAS happened.
San Diego. And we did raise hell. But often the damage is already done. Especially if its someone who is JUST starting to come out, and told "this is a safe space, where you can be yourself without fear" and then to have that shot down is INCREDIBLY damaging. Granted its a rare occurrence, but it HAS happened.
Personally after the incident, I would have gone up the chain of command, up to calling donors to the place, if I could.
MuddBudd on
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The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
So how much money is the Mormon Church going to spend interfering with another state's vote?
Is it wrong to hope a LOT?
I want to see their bottom-line suffer, and for them to lose more members like they did after Prop 8.
I don't know much about it, but I'd say it's wrong. Aren't churches usually spending most of their money on charitable stuff? Like food and clothes for the needy and such?
They spent thousands towards to the Pop 8 vote in CA. We can have a charity that doesn't support bigotry on the side.
They essentially utilized the church's organization to funnel both cash and support in the form of bodies to advocate for a particular political outcome. Which is a big, big no no. In a just world in which we followed the law we would have revoked the entire church's tax exempt status in a heartbeat.
I remember reading and hearing about how the Mormon church was donating over 70% of all the money spent supporting prop 8. So why in the sweaty hell was the government not jumping all over that?
San Diego. And we did raise hell. But often the damage is already done. Especially if its someone who is JUST starting to come out, and told "this is a safe space, where you can be yourself without fear" and then to have that shot down is INCREDIBLY damaging. Granted its a rare occurrence, but it HAS happened.
Personally after the incident, I would have gone up the chain of command, up to calling donors to the place, if I could.
Yeah we got people in charge to take care of it. General rule of the LGBT center is "use the bathrooms that you feel are most comfortable, and no one will stop you" The issue is with so many volunteers, they often dont get that memo. And training is quite lacking on trans stuff. Its a problem that we are working to fix.
Plus, even if its not someone who's working there, or a volunteer or something, a random person could say something/harass you in the restroom. And even if the staff is completely on your side, it still doesnt erase the incident and still doesnt help feelings of confidence and safety.
San Diego. And we did raise hell. But often the damage is already done. Especially if its someone who is JUST starting to come out, and told "this is a safe space, where you can be yourself without fear" and then to have that shot down is INCREDIBLY damaging. Granted its a rare occurrence, but it HAS happened.
Personally after the incident, I would have gone up the chain of command, up to calling donors to the place, if I could.
Yeah we got people in charge to take care of it. General rule of the LGBT center is "use the bathrooms that you feel are most comfortable, and no one will stop you" The issue is with so many volunteers, they often dont get that memo. And training is quite lacking on trans stuff. Its a problem that we are working to fix.
Plus, even if its not someone who's working there, or a volunteer or something, a random person could say something/harass you in the restroom. And even if the staff is completely on your side, it still doesnt erase the incident and still doesnt help feelings of confidence and safety.
I figured it was something like that. That poor person though. That's gotta be traumatizing.
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
San Diego. And we did raise hell. But often the damage is already done. Especially if its someone who is JUST starting to come out, and told "this is a safe space, where you can be yourself without fear" and then to have that shot down is INCREDIBLY damaging. Granted its a rare occurrence, but it HAS happened.
Personally after the incident, I would have gone up the chain of command, up to calling donors to the place, if I could.
Yeah we got people in charge to take care of it. General rule of the LGBT center is "use the bathrooms that you feel are most comfortable, and no one will stop you" The issue is with so many volunteers, they often dont get that memo. And training is quite lacking on trans stuff. Its a problem that we are working to fix.
Plus, even if its not someone who's working there, or a volunteer or something, a random person could say something/harass you in the restroom. And even if the staff is completely on your side, it still doesnt erase the incident and still doesnt help feelings of confidence and safety.
I figured it was something like that. That poor person though. That's gotta be traumatizing.
I guess thats the thing that bothers me the most about all this bathroom panic shit thats flying around. Trans people are FAR more afraid of using the bathrooms than cis people. Its fucking scary when you know how much people flip their shit over it. And statistically a trans person is way more likely to be assaulted for using a restroom, ANY restroom, than a cis gendered person. Yet trans people are still perceived as the threat.
So how much money is the Mormon Church going to spend interfering with another state's vote?
Is it wrong to hope a LOT?
I want to see their bottom-line suffer, and for them to lose more members like they did after Prop 8.
I don't know much about it, but I'd say it's wrong. Aren't churches usually spending most of their money on charitable stuff? Like food and clothes for the needy and such?
They spent thousands towards to the Pop 8 vote in CA. We can have a charity that doesn't support bigotry on the side.
They essentially utilized the church's organization to funnel both cash and support in the form of bodies to advocate for a particular political outcome. Which is a big, big no no. In a just world in which we followed the law we would have revoked the entire church's tax exempt status in a heartbeat.
I remember reading and hearing about how the Mormon church was donating over 70% of all the money spent supporting prop 8. So why in the sweaty hell was the government not jumping all over that?
I really don't know Spaniard, but I wish I did. Tax exempt status comes from IRS 501(c)(3), which states that tax exempt organizations may not be an "action organization," which is defined as attempting to influence legislation and/or participating in political campaigns. The IRS really could have looked at the LDS church's actions in California and have been well within their rights to strip them of their tax exempt status. As to why they refused to do so, I wish I knew. Especially because by not doing so, they have encouraged other religious organizations to put even more time and money into political action.
I don't have the time to read this article from the IRS, but it seems to lay out a good groundwork for understanding what does and does not constitute political action and the basis for the tax exempt doctrine.
They may admit defeat, but it'll likely take decades to reverse the various amendments and force states to stop discriminating. Without federal oversight they tend to reverse things like segregation, just imagine how quickly they'll chip away at the rights of an even less visible minority.
You'd pick the one that specifically suits your interests at that one given time? Or you would pick the official who was open to choosing the best position based on logic and informed rhetoric?
"Rhetoric"? I don't vote for people based on how clever their debate tactics are.
The Christian who says "My private religious beliefs do not entitle me to take a crap on civil liberties and the First Amendment" is a much more logical, informed candidate than the atheist who blathers on about Natural Law and Evolution Hate Fags.
mythago on
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"Rhetoric"? I don't vote for people based on how clever their debate tactics are.
The Christian who says "My private religious beliefs do not entitle me to take a crap on civil liberties and the First Amendment" is a much more logical, informed candidate than the atheist who blathers on about Natural Law and Evolution Hate Fags.
You said atheist libertarian. I'm no sure that isn't an oxymoron, since libertarianism today seems much more like a system of belief than anything else. Technically it's correct in that I haven't ever heard anyone refer to the great and glorious Free Market as an actual god; they just couch it in analogies that other religions use to describe god(s).
"Rhetoric"? I don't vote for people based on how clever their debate tactics are.
The Christian who says "My private religious beliefs do not entitle me to take a crap on civil liberties and the First Amendment" is a much more logical, informed candidate than the atheist who blathers on about Natural Law and Evolution Hate Fags.
You said atheist libertarian. I'm no sure that isn't an oxymoron, since libertarianism today seems much more like a system of belief than anything else. Technically it's correct in that I haven't ever heard anyone refer to the great and glorious Free Market as an actual god; they just couch it in analogies that other religions use to describe god(s).
Anyone else remember when the market was crashing in 2008?
You'd pick the one that specifically suits your interests at that one given time? Or you would pick the official who was open to choosing the best position based on logic and informed rhetoric?
"Rhetoric"? I don't vote for people based on how clever their debate tactics are.
The Christian who says "My private religious beliefs do not entitle me to take a crap on civil liberties and the First Amendment" is a much more logical, informed candidate than the atheist who blathers on about Natural Law and Evolution Hate Fags.
First of all, you originally said "atheist libertarian," I think. The atheist part precludes them from being bigoted on religious grounds, and if they actually were an honest libertarian, they'd be all for gay rights. Libertarians' raison d'tre is personal liberty. Sure, you might find a politician who calls themselves "libertarian" and is actually something else, like Ron Paul, who is about as libertarian as I am Martian, but if we're just going by your own terminology, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Libertarians, by the tenets of objectivism, are all about gay rights.
And please, if you could, find me a logical atheist open to rational argument that is steadfast in his/her opposition to gay rights.
Hey, so this actually still isn't a religion thread.
Funny how this shows up in every thread that makes religion look even tangentially negative.
Religion was not to blame here. Religion is never to blame for anything. It is always something else. If another motive cannot be found, either equivocate endlessly or pin it on something vague and superficially profound that makes it everyone's fault, like "human nature". Bottom line: exonerate religion at all costs.
Hey, so this actually still isn't a religion thread.
Funny how this shows up in every thread that makes religion look even tangentially negative.
Religion was not to blame here. Religion is never to blame for anything. It is always something else. If another motive cannot be found, either equivocate endlessly or pin it on something vague and superficially profound that makes it everyone's fault, like "human nature". Bottom line: exonerate religion at all costs.
To answer your quote, in the hopes of preventing derails using it in other threads, it's because Religion is a tool. People blaming religion for religious bigotry is like people blaming guns for shootings. So yes, "exonerate religion at all costs" because blaming RELIGION is stupid. You don't put a gun on trial for murder, you put the guy who held the gun and pulled the trigger.
Hey, so this actually still isn't a religion thread.
Funny how this shows up in every thread that makes religion look even tangentially negative.
Religion was not to blame here. Religion is never to blame for anything. It is always something else. If another motive cannot be found, either equivocate endlessly or pin it on something vague and superficially profound that makes it everyone's fault, like "human nature". Bottom line: exonerate religion at all costs.
That's pretty interesting.
Maybe you should make a thread about it.
ChillyWilly on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
To answer your quote, in the hopes of preventing derails using it in other threads, it's because Religion is a tool.
Yes, no idea has ever caused any human being to act.
Libertarians, by the tenets of objectivism, are all about gay rights.
And please, if you could, find me a logical atheist open to rational argument that is steadfast in his/her opposition to gay rights.
I fear the "open to rational argument" part might preclude finding a chap of this description - would you be open to atheist lunatics instead?
Edit: I can't find any links but I remember some rather unpleasant, but atheist, "white power" groups were also very anti-gay.
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They essentially utilized the church's organization to funnel both cash and support in the form of bodies to advocate for a particular political outcome. Which is a big, big no no. In a just world in which we followed the law we would have revoked the entire church's tax exempt status in a heartbeat.
Its not just the south. This kind of transphobia and trans discrimination happens EVERYWHERE. Even in places where we have protections in place for gender identity and expression.
I have seen trans people get harassed/kicked out of bathrooms in LGBT centers in California. Its fucking depressing. If an LGBT center isnt even a safe space to pee... I really don't know where is.
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This is from the creator of South Park's new musical: The Book of Mormon. Just watch it. Watch it. It's hilarious.
Elder McKinley is one of the other missionaries who is sent to Africa along with Price and Cunningham. He laments his homosexual feelings, but reminds himself to "Turn It Off" like a light switch. The others agree that their feelings must be hidden, at all costs.
Hey, that's the guy who did Princeton orginally in Avenue Q, John Tartaglia. Also, that's not even vaguely amusing. South Park dude hast lost his mojo.
What is? The jokes just don't work; they're barely there. It's lame.
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What? How does that even work?
"We don't take kindly to our your type round here"
Actor Bill Hunter dies
You may know him as Bob from Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. Which I JUST watched last night.
Sad.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Its kind of mind boggling, but there are plenty instances where LGB folk still think of the T peeps as freaks and infiltrators and impostors and the like. Granted, all in all, larger cities in CA are still some of the better places to be trans, but its not like the problems are JUST located in the south/rural areas. Heck often times the more conservative areas can be easier for trans people in that you can generally blend in with the populace easier. People are not as aware of it or can't imagine a trans person MIGHT be among them. So you can slip on thru easier.
Well that was the Mormon's strategy. Keep bouncing from place to place till you find a state that doesn't chase you out.
Because if I saw that here in SF, I would raise hell. And I doubt I would be the only one.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Same here in West Hollywood.
Personally after the incident, I would have gone up the chain of command, up to calling donors to the place, if I could.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Ugh. It is more common that you think.
Yeah we got people in charge to take care of it. General rule of the LGBT center is "use the bathrooms that you feel are most comfortable, and no one will stop you" The issue is with so many volunteers, they often dont get that memo. And training is quite lacking on trans stuff. Its a problem that we are working to fix.
Plus, even if its not someone who's working there, or a volunteer or something, a random person could say something/harass you in the restroom. And even if the staff is completely on your side, it still doesnt erase the incident and still doesnt help feelings of confidence and safety.
I figured it was something like that. That poor person though. That's gotta be traumatizing.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I guess thats the thing that bothers me the most about all this bathroom panic shit thats flying around. Trans people are FAR more afraid of using the bathrooms than cis people. Its fucking scary when you know how much people flip their shit over it. And statistically a trans person is way more likely to be assaulted for using a restroom, ANY restroom, than a cis gendered person. Yet trans people are still perceived as the threat.
I really don't know Spaniard, but I wish I did. Tax exempt status comes from IRS 501(c)(3), which states that tax exempt organizations may not be an "action organization," which is defined as attempting to influence legislation and/or participating in political campaigns. The IRS really could have looked at the LDS church's actions in California and have been well within their rights to strip them of their tax exempt status. As to why they refused to do so, I wish I knew. Especially because by not doing so, they have encouraged other religious organizations to put even more time and money into political action.
I don't have the time to read this article from the IRS, but it seems to lay out a good groundwork for understanding what does and does not constitute political action and the basis for the tax exempt doctrine.
Hey maybe now they'll put all their resources toward something productive
HAAAHAHA. HILARIOUS.
More money for to destroy Planned Parenthood.
"Rhetoric"? I don't vote for people based on how clever their debate tactics are.
The Christian who says "My private religious beliefs do not entitle me to take a crap on civil liberties and the First Amendment" is a much more logical, informed candidate than the atheist who blathers on about Natural Law and Evolution Hate Fags.
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saw it and it made me laugh harder than pretty much anything I've seen
it was pretty good and it's gotten universally good reviews
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That's the Bowling Green Bull on Wall Street.
The video still makes me laugh/die a little.
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First of all, you originally said "atheist libertarian," I think. The atheist part precludes them from being bigoted on religious grounds, and if they actually were an honest libertarian, they'd be all for gay rights. Libertarians' raison d'tre is personal liberty. Sure, you might find a politician who calls themselves "libertarian" and is actually something else, like Ron Paul, who is about as libertarian as I am Martian, but if we're just going by your own terminology, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Libertarians, by the tenets of objectivism, are all about gay rights.
And please, if you could, find me a logical atheist open to rational argument that is steadfast in his/her opposition to gay rights.
Funny how this shows up in every thread that makes religion look even tangentially negative.
To answer your quote, in the hopes of preventing derails using it in other threads, it's because Religion is a tool. People blaming religion for religious bigotry is like people blaming guns for shootings. So yes, "exonerate religion at all costs" because blaming RELIGION is stupid. You don't put a gun on trial for murder, you put the guy who held the gun and pulled the trigger.
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That's pretty interesting.
Maybe you should make a thread about it.
Yes, no idea has ever caused any human being to act.
I fear the "open to rational argument" part might preclude finding a chap of this description - would you be open to atheist lunatics instead?
Edit: I can't find any links but I remember some rather unpleasant, but atheist, "white power" groups were also very anti-gay.