Is Jade Empire any good J? It is lying around at the place I'm looking after. I didn't even realise it was an rpg.
It's an 'action-RPG' so the combat is in real time, but apart from that it plays exactly like any other Bioware RPG.
I think it's a good game. It's not their best (IMO BG2), but it's also certainly not their worst (IMO NWN). I thoroughly enjoyed it. The twist is predictable and the ending a little rushed, but it's also very complete and has some fantastic moments. Many of the levels have stuck in my mind for good reasons.
The romances are also far less corny and a lot better developed than in their other games. The ending scenes are quite touching.
I might as well add I found it good enough to play through three times recently :P
Is Jade Empire any good J? It is lying around at the place I'm looking after. I didn't even realise it was an rpg.
It's an 'action-RPG' so the combat is in real time, but apart from that it plays exactly like any other Bioware RPG.
I think it's a good game. It's not their best (IMO BG2), but it's also certainly not their worst (IMO NWN). I thoroughly enjoyed it. The twist is predictable and the ending a little rushed, but it's also very complete and has some fantastic moments. Many of the levels have stuck in my mind for good reasons.
The romances are also far less corny and a lot better developed than in their other games. The ending scenes are quite touching.
I might as well add I found it good enough to play through three times recently :P
Yes, you should play this
Bioware did an excellent job with the character relationships--great dialogue and, like Janson said, it can be touching. Also, I loved the real-time combat system. Double saber technique FTW.
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in terms of television shows that have realistic representations of gay/bi/other relationships, ER had probably one of the best. while there were a few throwaway gay characters (they weren't handled badly, they just pretty much weren't handled at all), there was also kerry weaver and her long time girlfriend, sandy. dr. weaver was on the show for 12 years, and after her 6th year finally came out to herself and had a few realistic romantic attachments before finally settling down with sandy lopez, a firefighter (yeah yeah). they had a child together and were basically treated like any other couple on the show. ER is about as mainstream as a TV show can be, so i don't believe that it can't be done. i think a lot of people just don't have the guts to do it.
as for game characters being gay, who says they would have to shove it down your throat? i would be happy if they did it the same way they make straight characters. if a male main character notices an attractive guy and pursues him instead of an attractive female, that is not "shoving it down one's throat." that's just letting him do what he does.
i'm afraid that all this talk of "don't do it the wrong way" really just means that people don't want to see a gay character being gay. of course i could be interpreting that wrong.
in terms of television shows that have realistic representations of gay/bi/other relationships, ER had probably one of the best. while there were a few throwaway gay characters (they weren't handled badly, they just pretty much weren't handled at all), there was also kerry weaver and her long time girlfriend, sandy. dr. weaver was on the show for 12 years, and after her 6th year finally came out to herself and had a few realistic romantic attachments before finally settling down with sandy lopez, a firefighter (yeah yeah). they had a child together and were basically treated like any other couple on the show. ER is about as mainstream as a TV show can be, so i don't believe that it can't be done. i think a lot of people just don't have the guts to do it.
as for game characters being gay, who says they would have to shove it down your throat? i would be happy if they did it the same way they make straight characters. if a male main character notices an attractive guy and pursues him instead of an attractive female, that is not "shoving it down one's throat." that's just letting him do what he does.
i'm afraid that all this talk of "don't do it the wrong way" really just means that people don't want to see a gay character being gay. of course i could be interpreting that wrong.
There are 2 ways to portray a gay character incorrectly. The first is as an over-the-top flamboyant, fey comedy relief that's only comedy because "ha ha! He is sooo flamboyant!" (Note that gay characters can be funny, but not just because they're gay). The other incorrect way is "look at this gay chacter! We are so progressive because we have this gay character! a bloo a bloo a bloo!"
Does Jack on Will & Grace count as the wrong way, or is it justified by his juxtaposition against Will and the frequent normal homosexual relationship that the show featured?
in terms of television shows that have realistic representations of gay/bi/other relationships, ER had probably one of the best. while there were a few throwaway gay characters (they weren't handled badly, they just pretty much weren't handled at all), there was also kerry weaver and her long time girlfriend, sandy. dr. weaver was on the show for 12 years, and after her 6th year finally came out to herself and had a few realistic romantic attachments before finally settling down with sandy lopez, a firefighter (yeah yeah). they had a child together and were basically treated like any other couple on the show. ER is about as mainstream as a TV show can be, so i don't believe that it can't be done. i think a lot of people just don't have the guts to do it.
as for game characters being gay, who says they would have to shove it down your throat? i would be happy if they did it the same way they make straight characters. if a male main character notices an attractive guy and pursues him instead of an attractive female, that is not "shoving it down one's throat." that's just letting him do what he does.
i'm afraid that all this talk of "don't do it the wrong way" really just means that people don't want to see a gay character being gay. of course i could be interpreting that wrong.
There are 2 ways to portray a gay character incorrectly. The first is as an over-the-top flamboyant, fey comedy relief that's only comedy because "ha ha! He is sooo flamboyant!" (Note that gay characters can be funny, but not just because they're gay). The other incorrect way is "look at this gay chacter! We are so progressive because we have this gay character! a bloo a bloo a bloo!"
Does Jack on Will & Grace count as the wrong way, or is it justified by his juxtaposition against Will and the frequent normal homosexual relationship that the show featured?
Justified I think. Jack is basically a one-joke character the writers can have some fun with, whereas Will is their 'progressive' character.
Does Jack on Will & Grace count as the wrong way, or is it justified by his juxtaposition against Will and the frequent normal homosexual relationship that the show featured?
He's not a juxtaposition, he's a counter-balance. If you put too many normal gay characters in then people get the impression that gayness isn't dirty and evil. You need someone "flamboyant" to calm down the studio-execs.
And Will & Grace sucks. They always seem to have enough jokes to fill a 30 second trailer, but not to fill a 20 minute show.
He's not a juxtaposition, he's a counter-balance. If you put too many normal gay characters in then people get the impression that gayness isn't dirty and evil. You need someone "flamboyant" to calm down the studio-execs.
I know this is slightly off topic with regard to the O.P., but that whole "normal gay" thing... Did anybody else roll their eyes with Steve Carrell's character in Little Miss Sunshine? I mean, he's gay, so he obviously had issues and slit his wrists, y'know. And, no, I didn't think it was a good movie nor did I really care for it, gay stereotypes aside.
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He's not a juxtaposition, he's a counter-balance. If you put too many normal gay characters in then people get the impression that gayness isn't dirty and evil. You need someone "flamboyant" to calm down the studio-execs.
I know this is slightly off topic with regard to the O.P., but that whole "normal gay" thing... Did anybody else roll their eyes with Steve Carrell's character in Little Miss Sunshine? I mean, he's gay, so he obviously had issues and slit his wrists, y'know. And, no, I didn't think it was a good movie nor did I really care for it, gay stereotypes aside.
I think they made him gay just to make the family that much more eccentric. Normal enough daughter, vow-of-silence son, self-help failure of a father, lacadasical but neurotic mother, grandfather on heroine, gay uncle with emotional problems. Though the reason for slitting his wrists was the loss of his lover, it had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he was gay. His sexuality was incidental, but integral to his character rather than just being a token, as it kind of grounded the son and helped their interaction at the end of the movie.
He's not a juxtaposition, he's a counter-balance. If you put too many normal gay characters in then people get the impression that gayness isn't dirty and evil. You need someone "flamboyant" to calm down the studio-execs.
I know this is slightly off topic with regard to the O.P., but that whole "normal gay" thing... Did anybody else roll their eyes with Steve Carrell's character in Little Miss Sunshine? I mean, he's gay, so he obviously had issues and slit his wrists, y'know. And, no, I didn't think it was a good movie nor did I really care for it, gay stereotypes aside.
Man, what?
Never was it implied that he had issues because he was gay. He had issues and he was gay.
The only thing I can fathom that you're talking about is that he tried to kill himself because someone he was in love was with someone else. Which, you know, never, ever happens with heterosexuals.
He's not a juxtaposition, he's a counter-balance. If you put too many normal gay characters in then people get the impression that gayness isn't dirty and evil. You need someone "flamboyant" to calm down the studio-execs.
I know this is slightly off topic with regard to the O.P., but that whole "normal gay" thing... Did anybody else roll their eyes with Steve Carrell's character in Little Miss Sunshine? I mean, he's gay, so he obviously had issues and slit his wrists, y'know. And, no, I didn't think it was a good movie nor did I really care for it, gay stereotypes aside.
I think they made him gay just to make the family that much more eccentric. Normal enough daughter, vow-of-silence son, self-help failure of a father, lacadasical but neurotic mother, grandfather on heroine, gay uncle with emotional problems. Though the reason for slitting his wrists was the loss of his lover, it had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he was gay and more to do with . His sexuality was incidental, but integral to his character rather than just being a token, as it kind of grounded the son and helped their interaction at the end of the movie.
yeah, it seemed like the only thing his character was okay about with his life was the fact that he was gay.
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"okay byron, my grandma has a right to be happy, so i give you my blessing. just... don't get her pregnant. i don't need another mom."
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He's not a juxtaposition, he's a counter-balance. If you put too many normal gay characters in then people get the impression that gayness isn't dirty and evil. You need someone "flamboyant" to calm down the studio-execs.
I know this is slightly off topic with regard to the O.P., but that whole "normal gay" thing... Did anybody else roll their eyes with Steve Carrell's character in Little Miss Sunshine? I mean, he's gay, so he obviously had issues and slit his wrists, y'know. And, no, I didn't think it was a good movie nor did I really care for it, gay stereotypes aside.
I think they made him gay just to make the family that much more eccentric. Normal enough daughter, vow-of-silence son, self-help failure of a father, lacadasical but neurotic mother, grandfather on heroine, gay uncle with emotional problems. Though the reason for slitting his wrists was the loss of his lover, it had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he was gay and more to do with . His sexuality was incidental, but integral to his character rather than just being a token, as it kind of grounded the son and helped their interaction at the end of the movie.
yeah, it seemed like the only thing his character was okay about with his life was the fact that he was gay.
Sort of. You learn them within the first 10 minutes or so. We've kinda changed the discussion to media portrayals in general. Frankly, I still think networks need to work on portraying women, if those damn ads that interrupt my SVU for something called "The Starter Wife" are any indication.
i personally don't care if a video came character is gay or not, but why would the makers of a video game decide to appeal to only about 10% of the people who actually play their games, when most of the other 90% probably isn't that wild about seeing it (and i'm talking about romance and relationships here, not just some passing "oh he's gay, whatever" thing)?
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"okay byron, my grandma has a right to be happy, so i give you my blessing. just... don't get her pregnant. i don't need another mom."
i personally don't care if a video came character is gay or not, but why would the makers of a video game decide to appeal to only about 10% of the people who actually play their games, when most of the other 90% probably isn't that wild about seeing it (and i'm talking about romance and relationships here, not just some passing "oh he's gay, whatever" thing)?
It shouldn't be an "appeal" to a population like those Subaru ads were (which were really effective, by the way). All it should be is a character that's gay because that's part of the plot in some way, just like any individual character should be included with any individual character traits because they play into the plot in some way.
Those little sections where it talks about the characters in the instruction booklets should add something like this:
SO - (hetero, homo, bi, undecided, plurisexual)
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
i personally don't care if a video came character is gay or not, but why would the makers of a video game decide to appeal to only about 10% of the people who actually play their games, when most of the other 90% probably isn't that wild about seeing it (and i'm talking about romance and relationships here, not just some passing "oh he's gay, whatever" thing)?
well, while I don't disagree with you, it doesn't mean that peripheral characters can't be gay.
and as with Jade Empire, giving the option to make your character gay is completely fine. Not that it needs to exist in some sort of character creation menu , but if you are going to ahve relationships in a game, that should be one of them.
If the rest of the writing in the game deems it appropriate, sure.
But I emphasizing a protagonists sexual orientation one way or another would just depreciate the value of the game.
EDIT: The only exception I would make to this would be games like kotor. With all the decisions you could make throughout the game, I was pretty surprised all the relationships were kept heterosexual.
What the hell does this mean? Wiki tells me nothing.
Like polyamorous, maybe?
I was trying to think of a good word for what I wanted to describe. I thought of stem cells, and how they are described as "pluripotent," in that they have a great number of uses simultaneously, and are not restricted to any one use, or any single developmental stem.
If that's true, then plurisexual, I suppose, would be simultaneously multi-sexual, but not just as it describes human-human relationships.
Furries, basically. There's a psychological word for it, coda- or cota- or kota-sexual, something like that, but I can only remember how it's pronounced and not how it's spelled anymore. It's basically a catch-all descriptor for every type of sexuality that can't be described as overtly homo or hetero.
If the rest of the writing in the game deems it appropriate, sure.
But I emphasizing a protagonists sexual orientation one way or another would just depreciate the value of the game.
EDIT: The only exception I would make to this would be games like kotor. With all the decisions you could make throughout the game, I was pretty surprised all the relationships were kept heterosexual.
Supposedly Bioware tried to slip a lesbian romance into the game, but were curbed by Lucasarts. There's no reference to homosexuality anywhere in Star Wars.
I don't care about my character's sexual preferences (although I did like two non-stereotypical gay characters in The Longest Journey), I just want them to not be a walking stereotype.
So much for Zoë.
[edit] Also, wasn't there a gay pride parade as an Easter egg in Sim Copter, and the programmer who put it in there got fired? I read that yeeeeeeears ago.
although I did like two non-stereotypical gay characters in The Longest Journey
Three, technically. There's a cop guarding that one crash site and you can make April try to flirt with him and he just replies "Sorry, ma'am. I'm gay."
If the rest of the writing in the game deems it appropriate, sure.
But I emphasizing a protagonists sexual orientation one way or another would just depreciate the value of the game.
EDIT: The only exception I would make to this would be games like kotor. With all the decisions you could make throughout the game, I was pretty surprised all the relationships were kept heterosexual.
Supposedly Bioware tried to slip a lesbian romance into the game, but were curbed by Lucasarts. There's no reference to homosexuality anywhere in Star Wars.
Well, when you say 'should' to me, that implies that the OP is thinking that maybe we should try to have a gay character quota, or otherwise encourage a few companies to have their characters come out of the closet.
In the large majority of games, sexuality preferences really don't need to be stated or acknowledged. There was a 'top 40 gay gaming characters' on a site somewhere which featured lots of characters whose preferences are left entirely ambiguous.
I think it comes down to in my mind, does it matter? As others have said a lot of game characters don't even have a stated sexual preference. And as others have pointed out, other then a stereotypical character how would one even know a particular character is gay. Would the game have like titles.
Timmy
<Gay>
Richard
<Bisexual> ?
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Because it'll end up like TV. 90% of it will be hideous stereotypes and the other 10% will be actual characters who just happen to be gay.
Mainstream television, maybe, but I don't think you can say there's never been a show with a gay character who was realistic, well-developed, and involved in a gay relationship that was fairly important to the character himself or herself.
And there are plenty of games where a dude has to rescue his girlfriend, or has a flirtatious relationship with a female NPC.
I think stories in games are only recently getting good treatment. Now that graphics, physics, etc are losing their flare or attention grabbing stories have to step up and make you want light bloom explosion 5, more so then any graphical trick they could throw at it.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
This is what I think the question ought to be, just because.
And also because I think saying "video games should have gay characters" sounds like asking for a heavy-handed gay character to get forced in there just for the sake of, as Fencingsax put it earlier, "look at this gay character! We are so progressive because we have this gay character!"
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It's an 'action-RPG' so the combat is in real time, but apart from that it plays exactly like any other Bioware RPG.
I think it's a good game. It's not their best (IMO BG2), but it's also certainly not their worst (IMO NWN). I thoroughly enjoyed it. The twist is predictable and the ending a little rushed, but it's also very complete and has some fantastic moments. Many of the levels have stuck in my mind for good reasons.
The romances are also far less corny and a lot better developed than in their other games. The ending scenes are quite touching.
I might as well add I found it good enough to play through three times recently :P
Yes, you should play this
Bioware did an excellent job with the character relationships--great dialogue and, like Janson said, it can be touching. Also, I loved the real-time combat system. Double saber technique FTW.
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as for game characters being gay, who says they would have to shove it down your throat? i would be happy if they did it the same way they make straight characters. if a male main character notices an attractive guy and pursues him instead of an attractive female, that is not "shoving it down one's throat." that's just letting him do what he does.
i'm afraid that all this talk of "don't do it the wrong way" really just means that people don't want to see a gay character being gay. of course i could be interpreting that wrong.
What about Advanced Buttsex Simulator 3 on the C64?
indeed.
Justified I think. Jack is basically a one-joke character the writers can have some fun with, whereas Will is their 'progressive' character.
He's not a juxtaposition, he's a counter-balance. If you put too many normal gay characters in then people get the impression that gayness isn't dirty and evil. You need someone "flamboyant" to calm down the studio-execs.
And Will & Grace sucks. They always seem to have enough jokes to fill a 30 second trailer, but not to fill a 20 minute show.
Ending romance scene for two male characters in Jade Empire, in case anyone's curious.
I know this is slightly off topic with regard to the O.P., but that whole "normal gay" thing... Did anybody else roll their eyes with Steve Carrell's character in Little Miss Sunshine? I mean, he's gay, so he obviously had issues and slit his wrists, y'know. And, no, I didn't think it was a good movie nor did I really care for it, gay stereotypes aside.
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I think they made him gay just to make the family that much more eccentric. Normal enough daughter, vow-of-silence son, self-help failure of a father, lacadasical but neurotic mother, grandfather on heroine, gay uncle with emotional problems. Though the reason for slitting his wrists was the loss of his lover, it had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he was gay. His sexuality was incidental, but integral to his character rather than just being a token, as it kind of grounded the son and helped their interaction at the end of the movie.
edit: durr durr durr
Man, what?
Never was it implied that he had issues because he was gay. He had issues and he was gay.
The only thing I can fathom that you're talking about is that he tried to kill himself because someone he was in love was with someone else. Which, you know, never, ever happens with heterosexuals.
yeah, it seemed like the only thing his character was okay about with his life was the fact that he was gay.
And where is the discussion on games? :P
Sort of. You learn them within the first 10 minutes or so. We've kinda changed the discussion to media portrayals in general. Frankly, I still think networks need to work on portraying women, if those damn ads that interrupt my SVU for something called "The Starter Wife" are any indication.
1. Not really, that's how the movie starts.
2. It veered off into a discussion of proper gay chatacters in general media, but is still more-or-less on topic.
1. no
2. like 9 posts up
i personally don't care if a video came character is gay or not, but why would the makers of a video game decide to appeal to only about 10% of the people who actually play their games, when most of the other 90% probably isn't that wild about seeing it (and i'm talking about romance and relationships here, not just some passing "oh he's gay, whatever" thing)?
This makes me laugh because Cam Clarke is super gay in real life.
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It shouldn't be an "appeal" to a population like those Subaru ads were (which were really effective, by the way). All it should be is a character that's gay because that's part of the plot in some way, just like any individual character should be included with any individual character traits because they play into the plot in some way.
Those little sections where it talks about the characters in the instruction booklets should add something like this:
SO - (hetero, homo, bi, undecided, plurisexual)
well, while I don't disagree with you, it doesn't mean that peripheral characters can't be gay.
and as with Jade Empire, giving the option to make your character gay is completely fine. Not that it needs to exist in some sort of character creation menu
But I emphasizing a protagonists sexual orientation one way or another would just depreciate the value of the game.
EDIT: The only exception I would make to this would be games like kotor. With all the decisions you could make throughout the game, I was pretty surprised all the relationships were kept heterosexual.
I was trying to think of a good word for what I wanted to describe. I thought of stem cells, and how they are described as "pluripotent," in that they have a great number of uses simultaneously, and are not restricted to any one use, or any single developmental stem.
If that's true, then plurisexual, I suppose, would be simultaneously multi-sexual, but not just as it describes human-human relationships.
Furries, basically. There's a psychological word for it, coda- or cota- or kota-sexual, something like that, but I can only remember how it's pronounced and not how it's spelled anymore. It's basically a catch-all descriptor for every type of sexuality that can't be described as overtly homo or hetero.
Supposedly Bioware tried to slip a lesbian romance into the game, but were curbed by Lucasarts. There's no reference to homosexuality anywhere in Star Wars.
So much
[edit] Also, wasn't there a gay pride parade as an Easter egg in Sim Copter, and the programmer who put it in there got fired? I read that yeeeeeeears ago.
Three, technically. There's a cop guarding that one crash site and you can make April try to flirt with him and he just replies "Sorry, ma'am. I'm gay."
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Re: The OP: Sure. Why shouldn't they?
Well...in the latest Star Wars novel there is.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Goran_Beviin
In the large majority of games, sexuality preferences really don't need to be stated or acknowledged. There was a 'top 40 gay gaming characters' on a site somewhere which featured lots of characters whose preferences are left entirely ambiguous.
Because it'll end up like TV. 90% of it will be hideous stereotypes and the other 10% will be actual characters who just happen to be gay.
Timmy
<Gay>
Richard
<Bisexual> ?
pleasepaypreacher.net
Mainstream television, maybe, but I don't think you can say there's never been a show with a gay character who was realistic, well-developed, and involved in a gay relationship that was fairly important to the character himself or herself.
And there are plenty of games where a dude has to rescue his girlfriend, or has a flirtatious relationship with a female NPC.
pleasepaypreacher.net
pleasepaypreacher.net
And also because I think saying "video games should have gay characters" sounds like asking for a heavy-handed gay character to get forced in there just for the sake of, as Fencingsax put it earlier, "look at this gay character! We are so progressive because we have this gay character!"
Edit: beaten, and with more clarity, by Janson.