Carl being irresponsible makes more sense earlier in the season. Not when they're in the middle of a "He's grown up so fast!" storyline like 2 episodes ago, and his friend died a week ago. Yes, kids are dumb, but given the way we've seen Carl up to this point, doing what he did and not telling anyone doesn't really gel for me. Granted, knowing the actor was being written out of the show, he kind of forced the writer's hands so I don't hate it as much as some people, but it still feels sloppy.
LOL, this entire episode no one had a clue were Carl was and didn't care. If fact they just got pissed when they happened to run into him. Guess Carl feeling unwanted and useless was the theme of the day.
Bet he is going to feel guilty about what happened to Dale. Not that he really needs to. After all, saying there is a walker in the woods is like saying there are squirrels there. DUH! Dale got distracted by the mutilated cow and because of his old man hearing and old man reflexes a walker with a broken leg snuck up on him.
Yeah she had a legitimate reason . Carl is just mentally handicapped.
Right. Because a kid exploring after getting yelled at by an adult is mentally handicapped.
Kids also never play with guns.
Kids also never try to act grown up.
Man. This show is so stupid and unrealistic.
It's not about being realistic or not, it's just aggressively irritating to watch. Kids are stupid but it's up to the writers whether or not to make him THAT stupid, and I don't understand why they chose to do so. Was it just so they could take a shit on him later by
People who say that the pacing is good because it lets you process whats happening must have a really poor capacity for assessing information and/or a staggeringly poor view of the average television viewer.
Shit happens so dam slow in this show that I'd argue you could pretty much skip almost the entirety of the first half of the season and have no problem following whats going on. I honestly hadn't thought it possible to make a zombie apocalypse boring but I guess shit finds a way.
Hell, I could even forgive that if the characters were interesting and/or fun, but most of them are either annoying (lori) or stupid (carl), and the ones that aren't (T-dawg and Daryll) for the most part don't get any of the limelight.
Yeah, If you aren't bitching about this then I don't know what to say.
The pacing is off, I'd agree. There's not a whole lot to process, I mean I've been posting that I don't think what they're doing to the kid is fair and that he hasn't posed any type of threat to them outside of speculation. So, a whole episode based around that felt unnecessary to me. It's their moral event horizon based on how he appears at the moment.
Knew the Carl/Zombie/Dale thing was going to end that way. I actually find the Carl component natural, kids do really, really stupid stuff like that all the time. His parents on the other hand, who the fuck knows? Not like Lori has any thing to do if the dishes are clean. Dale's death is probably the biggest blow, in a lot of ways he was their conscience; they wouldn't have even discussed not murdering the kid without him.
I'm not saying the slow pacing works in order to help you process the events that happen.
It works because it helps you care about the characters more. There are many deaths in the comic that you either feel half the effect or none at all, because you're not given enough material to care about them. Kirkman mostly hits it off when it comes to dramatic character deaths, but many times there are people who are axed with such quickness that you really can't feel anything.
The same can be said about the impact surrounding said events. Horrible things will happen almost immediately one after another, which results in pages of characters screaming at each other constantly. You think they're bitching up a storm in this show? It's way worse in the books.
I'm not saying the slow pacing works in order to help you process the events that happen.
It works because it helps you care about the characters more. There are many deaths in the comic that you either feel half the effect or none at all, because you're not given enough material to care about them. Kirkman mostly hits it off when it comes to dramatic character deaths, but many times there are people who are axed with such quickness that you really can't feel anything.
The same can be said about the impact surrounding said events. Horrible things will happen almost immediately one after another, which results in pages of characters screaming at each other constantly. You think they're bitching up a storm in this show? It's way worse in the books.
I've never read the comics so I'll have to take your word for it, but theres two important things to consider here. First: I shouldn't have to read the comics to appreciate the TV series. Second: most of the characters aren't that interesting. Yeah Dale dying was tragic, but at the same time a lot of the characters are just wallflowers to certain ones that we can't like for one reason or another (Lori, Shane, Andrea).
Honestly, I think I have a more objective view then the comic readers.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
His death is rumored to be at his own request, as he was upset with how the execs handled Frank Darabont.
That doesn't surprise me. As it turns out, when you hire a really great filmmaker to run your show, actors will show up and want to work with him; and when you fire him over bullshit, those same actors will flee your show like rats from a sinking television show.
(spoiler for the upcoming cast change:)
I assume that's also why we're losing Shane earlier than anyone expected.
--
As for pacing... Look, if you had asked me what the number one thing was that Walking Dead needed to do after the first season to improve, I would have said "Slow down". The first six episodes had to do a lot of world-building and plotting and the characterization got shortchanged, as did the moral/ethical considerations that make such an extreme situation as the zombocalypse interesting.
However, the writers have since proven that they're absolutely incapable of giving us meaningful, compelling characterization, or getting deeper into the ethical issues than a freshman college student having a drunken 3am argument. So the revised prescription is either "Write better, assholes" or "For the love of God, people, just throw plot at us really fast so we stop caring so much about the terrible". If Walking Dead was a thriller instead of a slow-burn drama, its flaws would be a lot less glaring.
Carl agitated the zombie in the muck, enough so that it broke free and followed Carl back to the farm. If Carl hadn't poked the zombie with a stick, Dale wouldn't have been attacked. I also think it's funny the guy trying the hardest to save a life was the one who ended up getting gored and dying painfully. No good deed goes unpunished.
Yeah, this episode was slow as molasses. We could have done without Dale wasting half the episode by walking around and chatting with everyone. Skip to the decision and the story wouldn't have lost any impact.
They're really makin' a mess of this execution thing.
Seems to me that the most "humane" way to kill the guy would be to put a bag over his head, tell him he's being released, then shoot him in the head.
None of this "We Are Going To Kill You Now Do You Have Any Last Words?" shit that pretty much only serves to make sure his final moments are terrifying.
Also I continue to be amazed at how people keep letting Walkers "sneak up" on them. They're brainless undead monsters, not super ninjas.
I wish the ratings for this show just plummet so amc might actually learn something from blundering this badly with how s2 was handled.
Though budget isn't an excuse for tonight's episode. Just the dumbest most ill conceived crap I've seen in a tv show in years. Every choice was false and absurd.
I'm not saying the slow pacing works in order to help you process the events that happen.
It works because it helps you care about the characters more. There are many deaths in the comic that you either feel half the effect or none at all, because you're not given enough material to care about them. Kirkman mostly hits it off when it comes to dramatic character deaths, but many times there are people who are axed with such quickness that you really can't feel anything.
The same can be said about the impact surrounding said events. Horrible things will happen almost immediately one after another, which results in pages of characters screaming at each other constantly. You think they're bitching up a storm in this show? It's way worse in the books.
Care about which characters more though? Shane and Herschel, sure. Everyone else has been shortchanged. Not really that decent of a tradeoff.
I was riveted by this episode more than most and this is what has you moaning and groaning like a barn full of walkers? I don't understand this thread at all, the silly goosery of wishing Carl and Andrea at top of the undead menu least of all.
I was entertained by this episode, even hoped to bring up the topic of integration again in light of the new info which was brought about by fucking torture, but noooo, wurst thing ever is the dominating topic/vibe/etc...
There was a whole lot of time wasting. Like, every scene of Daryl going to talk to someone could be cut because none of them went anywhere, and it was all covered in the debate scene anyway.
Also Carl is an idiot. I'm pretty sure actual children would be insulted to be portrayed that stupid. This doubly bad because one of comic Carl's defining traits is that he's the most grown up of the child characters.
Shane is like 100% right on everything. At this point whatever flaws he may have are completely wiped clean by being the only competent person in this group.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
I'm watching the episode right now. My god is Carl creepy.
I thought he was kind of a badass in the barn.
the "Do it, do it" part
or him stalking the prisoner?
the stalking the prisoner part was definitely creeper territory. Also harassing the zombie (or eyeing his kill). His approach of the deer was creepy also (earlier in the season).
Yeah she had a legitimate reason . Carl is just mentally handicapped.
Right. Because a kid exploring after getting yelled at by an adult is mentally handicapped.
Kids also never play with guns.
Kids also never try to act grown up.
Man. This show is so stupid and unrealistic.
None that I ever knew. And yes the average child knows not to play with guns. They also dance around a hungry dead cannibal for fun for no reason.
He's right, but you are as well. It depends on the children in question. Some know not be too careless or playing with guns is a bad thing. Others are the complete opposite. Many kids have died either from shooting themselves or others with guns.
There was a whole lot of time wasting. Like, every scene of Daryl going to talk to someone could be cut because none of them went anywhere, and it was all covered in the debate scene anyway.
Also Carl is an idiot. I'm pretty sure actual children would be insulted to be portrayed that stupid. This doubly bad because one of comic Carl's defining traits is that he's the most grown up of the child characters.
Shane is like 100% right on everything. At this point whatever flaws he may have are completely wiped clean by being the only competent person in this group.
Agreed.
I realize that it's a crazy situation. Carl is still a complete brat and an idiot. It makes even less sense for him to be this way considering he almost died a week ago, if the timeline someone talked about earlier is correct.
When I watch shows like Breaking Bad and The Wire, I experience characters I grit my teeth at and hate. But the thing is, I understand them. Those characters do awful things, but I can clearly see their motivations and their instincts, and still find myself completely attached them. My hatred feels genuine, but I have a respect for those characters and their place in the story.
When I watch the Walking Dead I feel nothing but frustration. If the writers intend on conveying characters acting with ill-adjusted viewpoints of rationality, I feel like the writers have done a terrible job at gaining the audiences' trust and attachment. I feel like I no longer care for any of the characters on this show.
Carl playing with a zombie who he has seen first hand eat people, alone, not long after he was almost killed, is beyond uncharacteristically stupid. A kid that young who had recently been through a painful near-death experience simply out of wandering where he shouldn't (even if his Dad didn't stop him) would be too petrified to do the same thing again without a parent. Not only that, but where was Lori when he wandered off? And how in the fuck did Dale not hear the moaning shuffling zombie from yards away in the dead of night? None of it makes sense.
I'm watching the episode right now. My god is Carl creepy.
I thought he was kind of a badass in the barn.
the "Do it, do it" part
or him stalking the prisoner?
the stalking the prisoner part was definitely creeper territory. Also harassing the zombie (or eyeing his kill). His approach of the deer was creepy also (earlier in the season).
The creeper part, stalking. I thought it was a great scene. I actually thought he would let him go for some reason.
I'm watching the episode right now. My god is Carl creepy.
I thought he was kind of a badass in the barn.
the "Do it, do it" part
or him stalking the prisoner?
the stalking the prisoner part was definitely creeper territory. Also harassing the zombie (or eyeing his kill). His approach of the deer was creepy also (earlier in the season).
The creeper part, stalking. I thought it was a great scene. I actually thought he would let him go for some reason.
Also, I feel the show has shown glimpses of its potential. There are some parts that are just pretty awesome. And then there was the slow part 1 of season 2. Meh. I still like the show.
edit: Oh, hey. I like to quote myself instead of hitting edit. Wah. Wah. Wah.
When I watch shows like Breaking Bad and The Wire, I experience characters I grit my teeth at and hate. But the thing is, I understand them. Those characters do awful things, but I can clearly see their motivations and their instincts, and still find myself completely attached them. My hatred feels genuine, but I have a respect for those characters and their place in the story.
When I watch the Walking Dead I feel nothing but frustration. If the writers intend on conveying characters acting with ill-adjusted viewpoints of rationality, I feel like the writers have done a terrible job at gaining the audiences' trust and attachment. I feel like I no longer care for any of the characters on this show.
Totally. The Wire, Breaking Bad, and The Sopranos are pretty much the 3 best shows ever because the writers always stayed true to their characters and never made things happen out of convenience. Making people do things that make no sense just so the plot can move forward reeks of laziness and bullshit, and it can kill shows quickly. The Shield fell apart in it's 7th season because of nonsensical writing choices, which was really unfortunate.
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But what the fuck Rick and Lori? I keep tabs on where my kid is at all times and it's not even the zombie apocalypse.
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It's not about being realistic or not, it's just aggressively irritating to watch. Kids are stupid but it's up to the writers whether or not to make him THAT stupid, and I don't understand why they chose to do so. Was it just so they could take a shit on him later by
I get that you guys don't care for the show, but comeon. Not everyone sees the initial airing.
Spoilers aren't hard to utilize.
Shit happens so dam slow in this show that I'd argue you could pretty much skip almost the entirety of the first half of the season and have no problem following whats going on. I honestly hadn't thought it possible to make a zombie apocalypse boring but I guess shit finds a way.
Hell, I could even forgive that if the characters were interesting and/or fun, but most of them are either annoying (lori) or stupid (carl), and the ones that aren't (T-dawg and Daryll) for the most part don't get any of the limelight.
Yeah, If you aren't bitching about this then I don't know what to say.
Also, holy shit this thread.
It works because it helps you care about the characters more. There are many deaths in the comic that you either feel half the effect or none at all, because you're not given enough material to care about them. Kirkman mostly hits it off when it comes to dramatic character deaths, but many times there are people who are axed with such quickness that you really can't feel anything.
The same can be said about the impact surrounding said events. Horrible things will happen almost immediately one after another, which results in pages of characters screaming at each other constantly. You think they're bitching up a storm in this show? It's way worse in the books.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
I've never read the comics so I'll have to take your word for it, but theres two important things to consider here. First: I shouldn't have to read the comics to appreciate the TV series. Second: most of the characters aren't that interesting. Yeah Dale dying was tragic, but at the same time a lot of the characters are just wallflowers to certain ones that we can't like for one reason or another (Lori, Shane, Andrea).
Honestly, I think I have a more objective view then the comic readers.
That doesn't surprise me. As it turns out, when you hire a really great filmmaker to run your show, actors will show up and want to work with him; and when you fire him over bullshit, those same actors will flee your show like rats from a sinking television show.
(spoiler for the upcoming cast change:)
--
As for pacing... Look, if you had asked me what the number one thing was that Walking Dead needed to do after the first season to improve, I would have said "Slow down". The first six episodes had to do a lot of world-building and plotting and the characterization got shortchanged, as did the moral/ethical considerations that make such an extreme situation as the zombocalypse interesting.
However, the writers have since proven that they're absolutely incapable of giving us meaningful, compelling characterization, or getting deeper into the ethical issues than a freshman college student having a drunken 3am argument. So the revised prescription is either "Write better, assholes" or "For the love of God, people, just throw plot at us really fast so we stop caring so much about the terrible". If Walking Dead was a thriller instead of a slow-burn drama, its flaws would be a lot less glaring.
Yeah, this episode was slow as molasses. We could have done without Dale wasting half the episode by walking around and chatting with everyone. Skip to the decision and the story wouldn't have lost any impact.
Carol also chewed out Lori. Bonus.
Seems to me that the most "humane" way to kill the guy would be to put a bag over his head, tell him he's being released, then shoot him in the head.
None of this "We Are Going To Kill You Now Do You Have Any Last Words?" shit that pretty much only serves to make sure his final moments are terrifying.
Also I continue to be amazed at how people keep letting Walkers "sneak up" on them. They're brainless undead monsters, not super ninjas.
Maybe his vocal chords have been severed.
I thought he was kind of a badass in the barn.
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Though budget isn't an excuse for tonight's episode. Just the dumbest most ill conceived crap I've seen in a tv show in years. Every choice was false and absurd.
Had to switch channels pretty shortly after.
Having a show about another show just seems so dumb.
Care about which characters more though? Shane and Herschel, sure. Everyone else has been shortchanged. Not really that decent of a tradeoff.
I was entertained by this episode, even hoped to bring up the topic of integration again in light of the new info which was brought about by fucking torture, but noooo, wurst thing ever is the dominating topic/vibe/etc...
>.<
Also Carl is an idiot. I'm pretty sure actual children would be insulted to be portrayed that stupid. This doubly bad because one of comic Carl's defining traits is that he's the most grown up of the child characters.
Shane is like 100% right on everything. At this point whatever flaws he may have are completely wiped clean by being the only competent person in this group.
or him stalking the prisoner?
the stalking the prisoner part was definitely creeper territory. Also harassing the zombie (or eyeing his kill). His approach of the deer was creepy also (earlier in the season).
Right? This website is like the capital of the universe for responses like that.
If the president had any real power, he'd be able to live wherever the fuck he wanted.
He's right, but you are as well. It depends on the children in question. Some know not be too careless or playing with guns is a bad thing. Others are the complete opposite. Many kids have died either from shooting themselves or others with guns.
Agreed.
I realize that it's a crazy situation. Carl is still a complete brat and an idiot. It makes even less sense for him to be this way considering he almost died a week ago, if the timeline someone talked about earlier is correct.
When I watch the Walking Dead I feel nothing but frustration. If the writers intend on conveying characters acting with ill-adjusted viewpoints of rationality, I feel like the writers have done a terrible job at gaining the audiences' trust and attachment. I feel like I no longer care for any of the characters on this show.
Carl playing with a zombie who he has seen first hand eat people, alone, not long after he was almost killed, is beyond uncharacteristically stupid. A kid that young who had recently been through a painful near-death experience simply out of wandering where he shouldn't (even if his Dad didn't stop him) would be too petrified to do the same thing again without a parent. Not only that, but where was Lori when he wandered off? And how in the fuck did Dale not hear the moaning shuffling zombie from yards away in the dead of night? None of it makes sense.
It's hard not to compare them. I know I shouldn't, but after reading the comics I saw the show as having so much potential. So much.
And it has not shown any of that.
Watch out, or you will buy it next!
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Also, I feel the show has shown glimpses of its potential. There are some parts that are just pretty awesome. And then there was the slow part 1 of season 2. Meh. I still like the show.
edit: Oh, hey. I like to quote myself instead of hitting edit. Wah. Wah. Wah.
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Totally. The Wire, Breaking Bad, and The Sopranos are pretty much the 3 best shows ever because the writers always stayed true to their characters and never made things happen out of convenience. Making people do things that make no sense just so the plot can move forward reeks of laziness and bullshit, and it can kill shows quickly. The Shield fell apart in it's 7th season because of nonsensical writing choices, which was really unfortunate.
"you'll put your eye out."
Wondering off alone? Sure. Being curious about the guy tied up in the barn? Sure.
Pelting a zombie with stones after personally seeing what they do, and having lost people you were close to at their hand? Uhhh . . .