Or what about someone who has the time/patience to spend the couple hours it takes to learn to play guitar hero but not the time/patience to spend the weeks and months and years taking guitar lessons/teaching themselves to play.
What if the person genuinely likes all rhythm based games and could care less that it is portraying you as a rock god?
It's possible, sure. It's pretty unlikely, though. Rhythm games are all pretty much the same in terms of substance; it's the style sets them apart and that sells them. While there may be some rhythm-game junkies out there, Guitar Hero's stylistic elements are clearly pulling at the coolness of being the front man for a major band.
No, what I'm saying is "If you think that guitar is so cool, you should totally learn to play it!" This doesn't mean that you should not play GH.
Like I thought that sword fighting was cool when I was a kid. Star Wars is probably at least partially responsible for that. So I played video games about sword fighting, but I also learned how to fence. If it's such a cool ability that it's worthy of fantasy, then I figure, hey, why just jerk off about it? Why not actually go and do it?
I understand that playing real guitar , but you're essentially saying:
"If you play Guitar Hero, then just go all the way and play real guitar"
which is equivalent to
"If you don't want to play real guitar, then don't bother with playing Guitar Hero"
Just because someone has the potential to do something and enjoys fantasizing about it doesn't mean he or she is obligated to do it, especially when the odds of actually achieving stardom and glory through playing guitar are infinitesimally small.
I think you might be confusing the motive of people who play the game. It's not "I play Guitar Hero because I like playing guitar," it's "I like playing Guitar Hero because I like being a rock star!", and thus learning to play some guitar on your own is irrelevant to the experience of the game unless you actually go all out and try to make it big in the real world.
edit: i could be mistaken on that contrapositive stuff, it's been a while since i've thought about logic-related stuff
Or what about someone who has the time/patience to spend the couple hours it takes to learn to play guitar hero but not the time/patience to spend the weeks and months and years taking guitar lessons/teaching themselves to play.
What about them.
This is my underlying feeling about how if you really think it's so cool that you fantasize about it, you should go and do it. This attitude is the sort of thing that, five years down the road, leads you to have new, cool skill sets. That's why I maintain this attitude.
I’m not sure how much a real electric guitar costs, but isn’t it quite a bit more then the $70 you spent on GH and a controller?
Not to mention lessons.
Or what about someone who has the time/patience to spend the couple hours it takes to learn to play guitar hero but not the time/patience to spend the weeks and months and years taking guitar lessons/teaching themselves to play.
What about them.
This is my underlying feeling about how if you really think it's so cool that you fantasize about it, you should go and do it. This attitude is the sort of thing that, five years down the road, leads you to have new, cool skill sets. That's why I maintain this attitude.
I think that it's fairly well established that people play video games mainly as a diversion.
People do not generally develop skill sets as a diversion.
I appreciate what you're saying, 100%. I feel the same way. If you enjoy music, and you have the requisite rhythm to master Guitar Hero, it seems like a worthy pursuit to just learn how to actually play.
But not everyone sees it that way, and frankly, that is perfectly sensible.
No, what I'm saying is "If you think that guitar is so cool, you should totally learn to play it!" This doesn't mean that you should not play GH.
Like I thought that sword fighting was cool when I was a kid. Star Wars is probably at least partially responsible for that. So I played video games about sword fighting, but I also learned how to fence. If it's such a cool ability that it's worthy of fantasy, then I figure, hey, why just jerk off about it? Why not actually go and do it?
I understand that playing real guitar , but you're essentially saying:
"If you play Guitar Hero, then just go all the way and play real guitar"
which is equivalent to
"If you don't want to play real guitar, then don't bother with playing Guitar Hero"
Just because someone has the potential to do something and enjoys fantasizing about it doesn't mean he or she is obligated to do it, especially when the odds of actually achieving stardom and glory through playing guitar are infinitesimally small.
Being world-famous and just being able to play some songs are not the same thing. I learned to fence not expecting that I'd be good enough to teach, certainly not win a gold medal or whatever.
I think you might be confusing the motive of people who play the game. It's not "I play Guitar Hero because I like playing guitar," it's "I like playing Guitar Hero because I like being a rock star!", and thus learning to play some guitar on your own is irrelevant to the experience of the game unless you actually go all out and try to make it big in the real world.
edit: i could be mistaken on that contrapositive stuff, it's been a while since i've thought about logic-related stuff
It's not about making it big. It's about going "yeah, I can actually do that." If you think something's cool, and it's not ridiculously hard to get the ability, you should totally go for it! Playing guitar isn't something that only very few people can do.
Being world-famous and just being able to play some songs are not the same thing. I learned to fence not expecting that I'd be good enough to teach, certainly not win a gold medal or whatever.
It's not about making it big. It's about going "yeah, I can actually do that." If you think something's cool, and it's not ridiculously hard to get the ability, you should totally go for it! Playing guitar isn't something that only very few people can do.
But one of the primary draws of this particular game is about making it big and being great. It's not just about guitar playing in and of itself, but it's also about the atmosphere, playing in a "band," playing music that you and the audience loves, and showing off to your friends how awesome you are at pressing buttons all at the same time. Playing real guitar on that level, as with any other instrument, is pretty hard and takes a lot of money and a lot of effort. What is it about having "simple fun" makes it less satisfactory than learning an entirely new and useful skill set?
I completely agree that if you've got the potential and the time, that you should go play real guitar also and if you do, more power to you, but you shouldn't feel obligated to do so.
No I am not an Olympic-quality fencer. I was on par with good B-Class fencers at my top. Olympians are the very top of the A-Class. That said, B is still pretty good.
No I am not an Olympic-quality fencer. I was on par with good B-Class fencers at my top. Olympians are the very top of the A-Class. That said, B is still pretty good.
Which I think is the point.
Guitar Hero lets you pretend to be a rock star with somethin more substantial than a cardboard cutout of a guitar, and way less time than trying to actually play a guitar.
If you want to learn guitar? Awesome, go for it. I have several friends who have learned how. But I dont play video games and then think, "man, why am I doing this? I could go do it for real!"
I dont see why this is so hard for you to grasp as an idea. Some people dont have the time to put into playing a guitar, or they dont want to devote that much of their life to that. So they play Guitar Hero. Thats all there is to it.
Basically there's a kick pedal and there's four pads. The kick pedal's for playing the base drum. Four pads: one is for the snare and the other three do double duty. Some of the time they're the cymbals, hi-hat, ride, and crash, but when you get to fills they turn to tom-toms. Some of the fills are pre-authored, but you can also do free-form fills where you can improvise them, and you hit a crash at the end to deploy your power-ups as well.
The GeekOh-Two Crew, OmeganautRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited July 2007
Guitar Hero is just near-instant gratification.
Yeah, I could learn to play for reals and eventually get good enough to play some songs after a few months.
But Guitar Hero gives you the opportunity to pick up the axe and be able to "play" Sweet Child O' Mine pretty much right away. I can't get that with a real guitar.
Yeah, I could learn to play for reals and eventually get good enough to play some songs after a few months.
But Guitar Hero gives you the opportunity to pick up the axe and be able to "play" Sweet Child O' Mine pretty much right away. I can't get that with a real guitar.
Right, but...
1) Three months later, when you're bored of Guitar Hero, you can still play the actual song if you learned the instrument.
2) Everyone else can play the song in GH. It's not really as cool if everybody in the world can do it.
I get the instant gratification angle. I just don't get settling for so little.
Yeah, I could learn to play for reals and eventually get good enough to play some songs after a few months.
But Guitar Hero gives you the opportunity to pick up the axe and be able to "play" Sweet Child O' Mine pretty much right away. I can't get that with a real guitar.
Right, but...
1) Three months later, when you're bored of Guitar Hero, you can still play the actual song if you learned the instrument.
2) Everyone else can play the song in GH. It's not really as cool if everybody in the world can do it.
I get the instant gratification angle. I just don't get settling for so little.
1) I've had the game for over 7 months and am still not bored with it.
2) According to you, everyone else could learn to play guitar as well, so how is it any different?
Well, in a song, a "fill" is what fills the gap between phrases.
Think of it as a short feature for one part in the band, like the drums or guitar.
As far as what they are saying...well, apparently, Rock Band will feature fills for the drums, where the "variable" pads will play as toms (the type of drum generally used in fills), and you will be allowed to improvise, rather than follow a set sequence.
Alternatively, the pilgrims settled, and look what they started?
They absolutely did not settle for anything less than decimating the local population with warfare and disease, destroying their culture and religion, stealing their land, and forcing them to live on what amounts to the tablescraps of it.
Everyone else can play the guitar. You'd have to have some physical disability to actually be completely unable to play. It's just that it can be such a pain and most people don't want to bother.
The nice thing about Guitar Hero is that you have your skill neatly quantified so that you can say "hah hah I am better than you at this" so easily.
Yeah, I could learn to play for reals and eventually get good enough to play some songs after a few months.
But Guitar Hero gives you the opportunity to pick up the axe and be able to "play" Sweet Child O' Mine pretty much right away. I can't get that with a real guitar.
Right, but...
1) Three months later, when you're bored of Guitar Hero, you can still play the actual song if you learned the instrument.
2) Everyone else can play the song in GH. It's not really as cool if everybody in the world can do it.
I get the instant gratification angle. I just don't get settling for so little.
1) I've had the game for over 7 months and am still not bored with it.
2) According to you, everyone else could learn to play guitar as well, so how is it any different?
1) You said "a few months," I simply typed "three" in there. Doesn't matter how long it really is.
2) Anyone else COULD learn, but most people DON'T. Seriously, almost anyone can learn almost any skill. Not "be the best in the world" or anything, but be reasonably not-sucky. So why isn't everyone a renaissance man? Because they don't, for a variety of reasons.
I get the instant gratification angle. I just don't get settling for so little.
I don't see it as settling. It's a game and I want to play the game.
If playing Guitar Hero is just "settling" then you could say the same thing about thousands upon thousands of other video games.
Are you saying that you have never played a game that at least partially replicates some other activity without actually having done that actual activity yourself?
Also, even if I learn to play guitar, I can't wake up on a Sunday morning, play a song in my pajamas with full band accompanyment, and then go right back to sleep if I want to. GH lets me do that.
Yeah, I could learn to play for reals and eventually get good enough to play some songs after a few months.
But Guitar Hero gives you the opportunity to pick up the axe and be able to "play" Sweet Child O' Mine pretty much right away. I can't get that with a real guitar.
Right, but...
1) Three months later, when you're bored of Guitar Hero, you can still play the actual song if you learned the instrument.
2) Everyone else can play the song in GH. It's not really as cool if everybody in the world can do it.
I get the instant gratification angle. I just don't get settling for so little.
1) I've had the game for over 7 months and am still not bored with it.
2) According to you, everyone else could learn to play guitar as well, so how is it any different?
1) You said "a few months," I simply typed "three" in there. Doesn't matter how long it really is.
2) Anyone else COULD learn, but most people DON'T. Seriously, almost anyone can learn almost any skill. Not "be the best in the world" or anything, but be reasonably not-sucky. So why isn't everyone a renaissance man? Because they don't, for a variety of reasons.
1) I could just as easily get bored with playing a real guitar, could I not?
2)Yes, anyone else could, but not everyone does. Just like Guitar Hero. Not everyone in the world plays Guitar Hero. In fact, I would be willing to wager that more people play real guitar than have played the game.
I get the instant gratification angle. I just don't get settling for so little.
I don't see it as settling. It's a game and I want to play the game.
If playing Guitar Hero is just "settling" then you could say the same thing about thousands upon thousands of other video games.
Are you saying that you have never played a game that at least partially replicates some other activity without actually having done that actual activity yourself?
No, I'm not. For example, I play RTS games, but I did not follow a military career. Why? Because unlike fencing or karate, following a military career would mean making huge, ridiculous sacrifices/changes.
I'm talking about spending time to get good at a game because it imitates something you think is cool, but then not spending any time on the real-world skill. That seems silly. If you think it's so cool, why don't you also learn some of it for real?
Also, even if I learn to play guitar, I can't wake up on a Sunday morning, play a song in my pajamas with full band accompanyment, and then go right back to sleep if I want to. GH lets me do that.
Once again, you're arguing against the point "nobody should ever play GH ever! Everyone should play real guitar!"
That's great but it wasn't ever my point at all, so it's not really relevant.
Defender on
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The GeekOh-Two Crew, OmeganautRegistered User, ClubPAregular
1) I could just as easily get bored with playing a real guitar, could I not?
2)Yes, anyone else could, but not everyone does. Just like Guitar Hero. Not everyone in the world plays Guitar Hero. In fact, I would be willing to wager that more people play real guitar than have played the game.
No, I don't believe so. I believe that there's more depth to real-life guitar than there is to Guitar Hero. Now, I'm not a musician, so if someone who is a musician wants to tell me that Guitar Hero is just as deep and rich as actually playing the guitar, well, go right ahead.
I'm sure more people do. I guess the other difference is that "playing guitar" is obviously cool. So cool that they made a game around the premise of pretending to be good at it. Playing rhythm games is fun and all, but I don't really see "DDR With The Stars" in the works any time soon.
The second they add Death or Glory to their catalogue, the heavens will part, and God Himself will reach down from his golden throne, and welcome me into His kingdom with His gentle and loving hand...for truly, at that point, my life will have been made absolutely complete.
Once again, you're arguing against the point "nobody should ever play GH ever! Everyone should play real guitar!"
That's great but it wasn't ever my point at all, so it's not really relevant.
I am mistaken, then. I jumped into the middle of this. What is your point?
Oh someone waaaaay back said "I hate when people say 'Why don't you just play real guitar?' when I say I play GH," and I said something like "well, if you think playing the guitar is so cool that you game where you pretend to play, why don't you also learn a little bit of the real thing...you obviously think it's a pretty neat talent."
Posts
What about them.
It's possible, sure. It's pretty unlikely, though. Rhythm games are all pretty much the same in terms of substance; it's the style sets them apart and that sells them. While there may be some rhythm-game junkies out there, Guitar Hero's stylistic elements are clearly pulling at the coolness of being the front man for a major band.
Cap and I got a kick out of this bit:
YES.
Also,
FUCK YES.
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But man....
SO FUCKING JAZZED
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I understand that playing real guitar , but you're essentially saying:
"If you play Guitar Hero, then just go all the way and play real guitar"
which is equivalent to
"If you don't want to play real guitar, then don't bother with playing Guitar Hero"
Just because someone has the potential to do something and enjoys fantasizing about it doesn't mean he or she is obligated to do it, especially when the odds of actually achieving stardom and glory through playing guitar are infinitesimally small.
I think you might be confusing the motive of people who play the game. It's not "I play Guitar Hero because I like playing guitar," it's "I like playing Guitar Hero because I like being a rock star!", and thus learning to play some guitar on your own is irrelevant to the experience of the game unless you actually go all out and try to make it big in the real world.
edit: i could be mistaken on that contrapositive stuff, it's been a while since i've thought about logic-related stuff
This is my underlying feeling about how if you really think it's so cool that you fantasize about it, you should go and do it. This attitude is the sort of thing that, five years down the road, leads you to have new, cool skill sets. That's why I maintain this attitude.
Drag.
Fly, you fool.
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Not to mention lessons.
People do not generally develop skill sets as a diversion.
I appreciate what you're saying, 100%. I feel the same way. If you enjoy music, and you have the requisite rhythm to master Guitar Hero, it seems like a worthy pursuit to just learn how to actually play.
But not everyone sees it that way, and frankly, that is perfectly sensible.
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Being world-famous and just being able to play some songs are not the same thing. I learned to fence not expecting that I'd be good enough to teach, certainly not win a gold medal or whatever.
It's not about making it big. It's about going "yeah, I can actually do that." If you think something's cool, and it's not ridiculously hard to get the ability, you should totally go for it! Playing guitar isn't something that only very few people can do.
But one of the primary draws of this particular game is about making it big and being great. It's not just about guitar playing in and of itself, but it's also about the atmosphere, playing in a "band," playing music that you and the audience loves, and showing off to your friends how awesome you are at pressing buttons all at the same time. Playing real guitar on that level, as with any other instrument, is pretty hard and takes a lot of money and a lot of effort. What is it about having "simple fun" makes it less satisfactory than learning an entirely new and useful skill set?
I completely agree that if you've got the potential and the time, that you should go play real guitar also and if you do, more power to you, but you shouldn't feel obligated to do so.
That's pretty neat right there.
No I am not an Olympic-quality fencer. I was on par with good B-Class fencers at my top. Olympians are the very top of the A-Class. That said, B is still pretty good.
Which I think is the point.
Guitar Hero lets you pretend to be a rock star with somethin more substantial than a cardboard cutout of a guitar, and way less time than trying to actually play a guitar.
If you want to learn guitar? Awesome, go for it. I have several friends who have learned how. But I dont play video games and then think, "man, why am I doing this? I could go do it for real!"
I dont see why this is so hard for you to grasp as an idea. Some people dont have the time to put into playing a guitar, or they dont want to devote that much of their life to that. So they play Guitar Hero. Thats all there is to it.
Jordan of Elienor, Human Shaman
ALL MY COCKS.
COMING.
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Yeah, I could learn to play for reals and eventually get good enough to play some songs after a few months.
But Guitar Hero gives you the opportunity to pick up the axe and be able to "play" Sweet Child O' Mine pretty much right away. I can't get that with a real guitar.
Read the article.
He's talking about eventually have thousands of songs, and allowing users to create and distribute their own music as playable tracks.
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Xbox Live Gamertag: Suplex86
Right, but...
1) Three months later, when you're bored of Guitar Hero, you can still play the actual song if you learned the instrument.
2) Everyone else can play the song in GH. It's not really as cool if everybody in the world can do it.
I get the instant gratification angle. I just don't get settling for so little.
Alternatively, the pilgrims settled, and look what they started?
1) I've had the game for over 7 months and am still not bored with it.
2) According to you, everyone else could learn to play guitar as well, so how is it any different?
Yeah! Take that, Defender!
Well, in a song, a "fill" is what fills the gap between phrases.
Think of it as a short feature for one part in the band, like the drums or guitar.
As far as what they are saying...well, apparently, Rock Band will feature fills for the drums, where the "variable" pads will play as toms (the type of drum generally used in fills), and you will be allowed to improvise, rather than follow a set sequence.
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Yes, actually, it is.
They absolutely did not settle for anything less than decimating the local population with warfare and disease, destroying their culture and religion, stealing their land, and forcing them to live on what amounts to the tablescraps of it.
The nice thing about Guitar Hero is that you have your skill neatly quantified so that you can say "hah hah I am better than you at this" so easily.
1) You said "a few months," I simply typed "three" in there. Doesn't matter how long it really is.
2) Anyone else COULD learn, but most people DON'T. Seriously, almost anyone can learn almost any skill. Not "be the best in the world" or anything, but be reasonably not-sucky. So why isn't everyone a renaissance man? Because they don't, for a variety of reasons.
AWWWW SKEET SKEET SKEET
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I don't see it as settling. It's a game and I want to play the game.
If playing Guitar Hero is just "settling" then you could say the same thing about thousands upon thousands of other video games.
Are you saying that you have never played a game that at least partially replicates some other activity without actually having done that actual activity yourself?
Also, even if I learn to play guitar, I can't wake up on a Sunday morning, play a song in my pajamas with full band accompanyment, and then go right back to sleep if I want to. GH lets me do that.
1) I could just as easily get bored with playing a real guitar, could I not?
2)Yes, anyone else could, but not everyone does. Just like Guitar Hero. Not everyone in the world plays Guitar Hero. In fact, I would be willing to wager that more people play real guitar than have played the game.
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No, I'm not. For example, I play RTS games, but I did not follow a military career. Why? Because unlike fencing or karate, following a military career would mean making huge, ridiculous sacrifices/changes.
I'm talking about spending time to get good at a game because it imitates something you think is cool, but then not spending any time on the real-world skill. That seems silly. If you think it's so cool, why don't you also learn some of it for real?
Once again, you're arguing against the point "nobody should ever play GH ever! Everyone should play real guitar!"
That's great but it wasn't ever my point at all, so it's not really relevant.
The online component is what really cranks my motor.
I am mistaken, then. I jumped into the middle of this. What is your point?
No, I don't believe so. I believe that there's more depth to real-life guitar than there is to Guitar Hero. Now, I'm not a musician, so if someone who is a musician wants to tell me that Guitar Hero is just as deep and rich as actually playing the guitar, well, go right ahead.
I'm sure more people do. I guess the other difference is that "playing guitar" is obviously cool. So cool that they made a game around the premise of pretending to be good at it. Playing rhythm games is fun and all, but I don't really see "DDR With The Stars" in the works any time soon.
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Oh someone waaaaay back said "I hate when people say 'Why don't you just play real guitar?' when I say I play GH," and I said something like "well, if you think playing the guitar is so cool that you game where you pretend to play, why don't you also learn a little bit of the real thing...you obviously think it's a pretty neat talent."