Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
1. Taylor Gang
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Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
My biggest disappointment, other then with myself in getting caught in the hype train, is that I felt this was Blizzard willing to grow and adapt. TOR has no pure DPS classes and GW2 is shooting for removing the trinity altogether. We could've had Combat Rogues tanking and Frost Mages healing. It would have been a step in the right direction, in my opinion.
My biggest disappointment, other then with myself in getting caught in the hype train, is that I felt this was Blizzard willing to grow and adapt. TOR has no pure DPS classes and GW2 is shooting for removing the trinity altogether. We could've had Combat Rogues tanking and Frost Mages healing. It would have been a step in the right direction, in my opinion.
TOR has 2 pure DPS classes. Or Advanced Classes if you prefer, which are exactly the same as Classes in WoW.
I also don't buy the explanation the glyph is only intended for sometimes-maybe-offtanking. I know that they're not intending Demonology to be able to tank... But if they are intending it for this weird offtank-sometimes-kinda thing, then the implementation is horrible.
First off, by slotting this glyph, you end up sacrificing a ton of dps. Demonology's dps comes from the Metamorphosis damage boost. They don't have that by slotting the glyph. In fact, they cannot go into Demon Form at all with this Glyph slotted unless they are going to "tank". 500% threat increase, and what not.
Secondly, why give so many tools to the warlock if it's only intended for offtanking? You have a taunt with an 8 sec cd, you have multiple damage reduction cooldowns.. You even get Fury Ward, which at that point I think would be overkill.
The opportunities for offtanking are so rare to begin with. You're gimping your dps for the whole fight until that one moment the tank dies or something, so that you get your 3 seconds in the spotlight while the tank gets battle ressed. And then you go back to doing crappy dps.
If this really is what the glyph is for, no one will seriously slot this. They'll slot it for soloing. But never in a raid or even a dungeon.
Yeah, it's a decent idea but unless how you change glyphs in and out changes drastically, it's not gonna work. This Glyph is something you have to slot specifically to do a job before a fight and you sacrifice your ability to perform your normal role as DPS when doing so.
Yeah, it's a decent idea but unless how you change glyphs in and out changes drastically, it's not gonna work. This Glyph is something you have to slot specifically to do a job before a fight and you sacrifice your ability to perform your normal role as DPS when doing so.
GC made another post saying the glyph adds a second Metamorph that acts like a offtank, with the warlock still being able to use the DPS metamorph as usual.
It might be they're testing it as a glyph to start and will make it into a spell later so it's available in exactly the same way the mentioned classes work.
TOR has 2 pure DPS classes. Or Advanced Classes if you prefer, which are exactly the same as Classes in WoW.
True, I was just counting Warriors and Knights as the same class. Still, better direction then WoW.
??
WoW has been only adding hybrids for awhile now and trying to expand the abilities of those classes to be perfectly good at their roles.
The only issue is the 4 still remaining DPS classes. And a big part of that is they don't want to go "Hey, Combat Rogues, you are now tanks. What, you don't wanna tank? Well fuck you, play Assassination." or the equivalent. Some gearing issues too, which they've been hammering out wrt the druid.
The new talent tree/specialization system and the precedent of the druid having 4 specs speaks to the possibility of this changing in the future though.
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CyrondinI bring the sick beats on you, brotherChicago, ILRegistered Userregular
Well how will the last 4 fit into one of the 2 roles? hunter can tank with pet i can see, hell i was in a classic ZG where the tank was a hunter pet in 2.0. (please ask if you want the story)
locks tank with what is in beta now, mages heal with ice?..., and rogues can tank but it will be uneven so maybe heal with combat?.......
it really need a workaround.
and also the Warriors and Knights is never count as two only by bioware PR, the smuggler/IA have a AC that don't heal or tank it the sniper/GS
Just to make our intent clear, the Glyph of Demon Hunting isn't intended to turn Demonology warlocks into a tanking spec. You won't be able to queue as a tank for Dungeon Finder for instance and won't have the survivability or tools of say a Protection paladin.
Historically, warlocks felt tankier than other casters and could even off-tank some encounters. We have made an effort in Mists to recapture some of that flavor. A warlock with this glyph should feel like they are about as effective tanking as an Arms warrior who pulls out a shield and swaps to Defensive Stance, or a Feral druid who goes into Bear form. You might be able to off-tank adds or pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down.
To make warlocks an actual tank would take more significant changes. For example, we want tanks to have to pick up separate tanking gear than their DPS gear (this is even true of druids) and want tanks to have to give up some of their DPS potential in exchange for their survivability. In short, it needs to be a commitment, and that's the sort of thing that needs larger gameplay changes than just a glyph.
That shouldn't stop the glyph of Demon Hunting from being fun though. As you can probably tell, we are trying to make even the major glyphs more about character customization and fun.
So close...
Translation: We're playing around with the idea of letting warlocks tank but we don't know if it will be viable and/or we can balance it in time for MoP release so we don't want to get anyone's hopes up.
Going back a few posts, the Heroics at launch had no place in the LFD system. They were fine when you went with a few mates, but going it alone, was a lottery with regards to whether you'd have any fun or not.
And you saw that with the queues; they shot up to something like 20-30 mins if you queued up solo as dps, because healers and tanks who got fed up with idiots, and refused to go alone into the LFD. I saw tanks leaving halfway through instances because boss number 2 out of 5 didn't drop their tanking gear, and they'd rather leave the instance than risk running the rest of the place.
Life as a resto shaman at launch was an exercise in pain. I didn't see any of this triage they talked about prior to the expansion; my cheap but small heal was weak and I'd see a tanks health drop even if I was belting out Healing Wave. That's alright though, I've got hex, the elemental cc and I can interrupt to help reduce incoming damage! Oh wait, my interrupts randomly miss and my CC's are something nobody should rely on because they generally break early due to the pulse resist.
What made it even worse, I'd go into a heroic with a holy paladin friend and he'd have a far easier time, with his heals being better, having much better mana efficiency and more tank saving cooldowns.
It amazes me that with only 5 healing specs, there was such a contrast at launch.
If they were to make the four pure classes into hybrids they should give them all a tanking spec, so then there's still too few tanks for dungeons and still too many for raids.
See initially when they put this glyph in I thought this was a small step in the direction of the Role of Role dev blog. The whole Model Five thing. It would have been neat for sure. Maybe that's for another expansion, though. Siiiiiigh. Man though, I'm pretty upset by this. I was really looking forward to Lock Tanking.
There are people posting in that thread though, in favor of warlock tanking. Maybe if they get enough noise going they'll reconsider. I know it sounds like I'm just being hopeful (which I am) but historically Blizz will react if there's enough of an outcry. Also, one post in particular makes a good point as well:
Whichever direction you go, though, I have to agree that the "just like an Arms warrior in Defensive stance" approach is just going to cause a lot of frustration. I played a Prot Paladin in progression raiding for the entirety of Burning Crusade (with a top 100 Illidan kill). There is nothing more frustrating than being able to "kind of" do something. And I'll echo what someone said above -- no matter what, if this is implemented, you're going to have Warlocks trying to tank things. It either needs to be supported fully, or not supported at all.
I was thinking about this myself. People are still going to try to tank as warlocks. It'll happen, and people will be frustrated that they can't, even though they'll be lead to believe otherwise. The glyph will probably end up being changed over the beta to the point where it's completely different from how it is right now though. And judging from GC's second post it seems like they're doing that.
I wish I was able to post in the beta forums. I wanna voice my concerns :S
Dibby on
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
If they were to make the four pure classes into hybrids they should give them all a tanking spec, so then there's still too few tanks for dungeons and still too many for raids.
Considering how much Arcane is shifting towards time manipulation, I wouldn't have put it past Blizzard* to do something crazy like make it a healing spec wherein the Mage rewinds the wounds on their allies. See that gaping hole in your chest? Rewind time a bit, now it's gone!
*(if they had gone through with Demonology Tanks. Which they haven't. Which has made me immensely sad. )
@Dibby: It's so frustrating to be an EU player for this game at times, exactly because of this. You can voice your concerns but be damned if you'll get a response most of the time. I want someone to point me in the right direction so that I can go begging for this idea to get a second chance.
As it stands I'll still try out Affliction and Destruction. But in the end it'll be like the... Fourth, maybe(?) class that I try to get to 90 instead of my number 1 priority. Which goes back to my Monk. Which I guess I'll tank on and have to put up with those stupid statues.
Anyone remember how Azeroth is supposed to have two moons?
Both were visible in vanilla, but when they updated the skyboxes in Burning Crusade or something they apparently forgot about the second one so it disappeared. The joke on my server was that Illidan ate it because it was not prepared. I'm sure other servers had similar jokes (if it's disappearance was even noticed).
Well, apparently it's back now for MoP, oddly enough. I had forgotten about it, and you'd think if it was in the cards to get added back it would have returned during the Cataclysm update. Perhaps the Mists from Pandaria were obscuring part of the sky all these years or something.
World of Starwarscraft. Horde claims one moon, alliance claims the other. When they get there they find the protoss and zerg locked in deadly combat and have to play one side off the other in a bid to save azeroth.
edit: Also; Duke Starkiller. Just because.
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DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
World of Starwarscraft. Horde claims one moon, alliance claims the other. When they get there they find the protoss and zerg locked in deadly combat and have to play one side off the other in a bid to save azeroth.
edit: Also; Duke Starkiller. Just because.
If that means we get to meet up with that bitching intelligent raptor for Azshara then I'd be all for it.
Anyone remember how Azeroth is supposed to have two moons?
Both were visible in vanilla, but when they updated the skyboxes in Burning Crusade or something they apparently forgot about the second one so it disappeared. The joke on my server was that Illidan ate it because it was not prepared. I'm sure other servers had similar jokes (if it's disappearance was even noticed).
Well, apparently it's back now for MoP, oddly enough. I had forgotten about it, and you'd think if it was in the cards to get added back it would have returned during the Cataclysm update. Perhaps the Mists from Pandaria were obscuring part of the sky all these years or something.
I still see both moons but then I think because I play at night I see the night sky
I think draenor is a moon of whatever planet you see in Nagrand
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
I like the loot change to LFR, the addition of the token of fortune thing to give people something to farm for an extra chance at loot, and Valor for upgrading items sounds awesome. I think every tier I bought like 1-2 items off the Valor vendor (either because they were BiS, or because I hadn't replaced that slot yet) and then just sold the BoEs for the rest of the tier. Now, I can upgrade my items (I wonder if Heroic items will be upgradeable).
Hopefully I don't feel pressured into not only getting all BiS gear, but to upgrade all my BiS gear, along with gemming and enchanting it all.
There's no way they're going to get away with not providing any purchasable items from valor.
The primary source for valor for most players is still going to come from LFD, and they're stick with the concept that the first tier of heroics still offer blue gear. The valor upgrades was stated to be for epics; so they're banking on everyone doing LFR for those epics to use their Valor for.
But for someone who just wants to do heroics, or never wins anything in LFR? They'll just be piling up Valor without a damn thing to use it on. And then the next tier will come and that'll all turn into JP which can be used to buy....oh wait, there was no valor gear last tier so your new JP is completely worthless. awesome.
This stuff drives me nuts. Sure, maybe they've got something planned to use JP/VP on other than valor to upgrade epics and jp to...oh wait, nothing. I don't want to believe that a team of people who have been working on this game for 10+ years could be that short sighted but man...at least what they've let us know about valor so far just seems like some piss poor ass decision making.
Upgrading epics is fine, though it's going to do funky things to ilvl inflation for each major patch and if they were worried about megadamage before ololol. But there has to be alternate options for spending valor, and thus jp, than simply upgrading gear you get elsewhere. I don't care if it's just "hey, pets for valor" or some shit. Something, but they say explicitly in that watercooler that they're toying with having nothing buyable with VP.
Short sightedness seems to abound in these decisions.
But for someone who just wants to do heroics, or never wins anything in LFR? They'll just be piling up Valor without a damn thing to use it on. And then the next tier will come and that'll all turn into JP which can be used to buy....oh wait, there was no valor gear last tier so your new JP is completely worthless. awesome.
hahaha
I don't really like what they are suggesting either
but that hadn't even occured to me
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
There's no way they're going to get away with not providing any purchasable items from valor.
The primary source for valor for most players is still going to come from LFD, and they're stick with the concept that the first tier of heroics still offer blue gear. The valor upgrades was stated to be for epics; so they're banking on everyone doing LFR for those epics to use their Valor for.
But for someone who just wants to do heroics, or never wins anything in LFR? They'll just be piling up Valor without a damn thing to use it on. And then the next tier will come and that'll all turn into JP which can be used to buy....oh wait, there was no valor gear last tier so your new JP is completely worthless. awesome.
This stuff drives me nuts. Sure, maybe they've got something planned to use JP/VP on other than valor to upgrade epics and jp to...oh wait, nothing. I don't want to believe that a team of people who have been working on this game for 10+ years could be that short sighted but man...at least what they've let us know about valor so far just seems like some piss poor ass decision making.
Upgrading epics is fine, though it's going to do funky things to ilvl inflation for each major patch and if they were worried about megadamage before ololol. But there has to be alternate options for spending valor, and thus jp, than simply upgrading gear you get elsewhere. I don't care if it's just "hey, pets for valor" or some shit. Something, but they say explicitly in that watercooler that they're toying with having nothing buyable with VP.
Short sightedness seems to abound in these decisions.
You know, every time I read comments like this, I want to point out that Blizzard has experienced game designers that know what they're doing.
Then I remember this is the same group of designers that made it that winning TB on offense netted you 1800 honor, and didn't foresee win trading happening...
So yeah, they should have at least off-set gear available from VP vendors.
But for someone who just wants to do heroics, or never wins anything in LFR? They'll just be piling up Valor without a damn thing to use it on. And then the next tier will come and that'll all turn into JP which can be used to buy....oh wait, there was no valor gear last tier so your new JP is completely worthless. awesome.
hahaha
I don't really like what they are suggesting either
but that hadn't even occured to me
It's possible that they won't degrade to Justice anymore. I didn't see any mention of Valor not carrying forward in MoP and no mention at all of Justice points.
Well they said that they are planning on making VP being used to upgrade your current items ilvl. So you run your 7 daily heroics and you get however much VP, and like 3-10 drops. Next week you run your 7 daily heroics and get however much VP, and get a couple more drops and then Upgrade your Heroic dungeon Helm from ilvl 463 to 471. So you can improve your Heroic Dungeon gear without ever running LFR.
Then you decide to run LFR and start getting 476 ilvl gear, and if you like you can make it better with valor and bring it up to 484 iLvL. And Normal Mode Raids will drop 489.
With that system, I don't really see a need to reset your Valor back to 0. And so you don't need justice points either. What we get is a system that accounts for the super bad luck of not getting an item to drop and gives you an alternative advancement. An alternative that is "good enough" and doesn't make the thrill of your item dropping going away since the dropped item will always be better than the previous tier item that is upgraded by a few ilvls.
I'd be surprised if they let you upgrade blues, i.e. heroic gear. They didn't say anything about it, in fact they said specifically epics, and it would be counter to trying to get people into LFR.
EDIT: On top of that, who is the upgrading going to appeal to, really?
Someone who doesn't care about raiding is less concerned about the actual ilvl of the gear and more about getting a purple in that slot to begin with. I do LFR on various characters because I'm seeking matching gear. I could easily buy whatever 397 item from the Valor vendor but it doesn't match the LFR gear, that I'm aiming for. I'm not worried that I'm putting on a 384 instead of a 397 and that I could make that 384 a 392 doesn't really matter to me because full 384 gear is enough to usually top or damn near top dps charts in LFR, the highest content I'm going to do that patch cycle.
I mean, if there's nothing else to spend the valor on I'm sure that I will upgrade them, but that's simply because of a lack of anything else to do with the valor, not because I want to.
It appeals to actual raiders because it gives them a higher ilvl and thus a higher chance at doing bosses/hm's etc. But the thing is, raiders already have various forms of ilvl advancement, without the need to add in this arbitrary change.
And another (bad) side effect of the lack of purchasable items is they'll have to expand the loot tables of bosses to account for it. Random things, slots, are usually bought so that a boss doesn't have vanilla levels of item possibilities. This doesn't really mean anything for the LFR loot system now, but for actual raiders, it's going to be harder to get what they want and there'll be more sharding. I mean, instead of putting the int plate belt on a vendor it's on a loot table and you know there'll be raids that get that fucking thing week after week; when it shouldn't be there to begin with because blizzard won't sack up and make str/sta plate work for holy pallies (or make int/sta gear work again for ret/prot).
It's not that I don't understand why they're doing these things and toying with the changes, it just seems like they're trading one problem for another in a hope for a misdirect, or something. Things aren't actually being solved, just danced around.
EDIT2: Also I understand that these are just things being "tossed around" atm. That they're not for sure things and there's bound to be fixes and changes. That's fine. I'm not spazzing out, I'm just responding to the things said specifically and what I see wrong with them.
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Those are good points. I'll also add that I have never really liked the valor grind to begin with. I mean, you can only run heroics so many times before you start to hate them, yet you are forced to do this several times a week just to cap (in some cases, it really depends on how far you are progressing in the raid). I'm not sure I like something that adds to the necessity of running content that drops nothing I want purely for valor...
Well, they never said anything about Justice Points so maybe it'll be top tier raid only and you'll still buy lower level gear with justice points and then upgrade it with Valor.
I'd imagine Justice Points would have to stay around in some form unless they want to change all the gear vendors from tBC, WotLK, and Cata to sell the older stuff for gold or Darkmoon tickets or whatever.
I'll be shocked [shocked, I say] if they do remove buyables with Valor points. I suspect a compromise will be made on that line of thought (probably focusing on the aforementioned side items like necklaces, rings, trinks, etc...).
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TOR has 2 pure DPS classes. Or Advanced Classes if you prefer, which are exactly the same as Classes in WoW.
Yeah, it's a decent idea but unless how you change glyphs in and out changes drastically, it's not gonna work. This Glyph is something you have to slot specifically to do a job before a fight and you sacrifice your ability to perform your normal role as DPS when doing so.
True, I was just counting Warriors and Knights as the same class. Still, better direction then WoW.
GC made another post saying the glyph adds a second Metamorph that acts like a offtank, with the warlock still being able to use the DPS metamorph as usual.
Still might not be worth the glyph slot.
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??
WoW has been only adding hybrids for awhile now and trying to expand the abilities of those classes to be perfectly good at their roles.
The only issue is the 4 still remaining DPS classes. And a big part of that is they don't want to go "Hey, Combat Rogues, you are now tanks. What, you don't wanna tank? Well fuck you, play Assassination." or the equivalent. Some gearing issues too, which they've been hammering out wrt the druid.
The new talent tree/specialization system and the precedent of the druid having 4 specs speaks to the possibility of this changing in the future though.
locks tank with what is in beta now, mages heal with ice?..., and rogues can tank but it will be uneven so maybe heal with combat?.......
it really need a workaround.
and also the Warriors and Knights is never count as two only by bioware PR, the smuggler/IA have a AC that don't heal or tank it the sniper/GS
Translation: We're playing around with the idea of letting warlocks tank but we don't know if it will be viable and/or we can balance it in time for MoP release so we don't want to get anyone's hopes up.
And you saw that with the queues; they shot up to something like 20-30 mins if you queued up solo as dps, because healers and tanks who got fed up with idiots, and refused to go alone into the LFD. I saw tanks leaving halfway through instances because boss number 2 out of 5 didn't drop their tanking gear, and they'd rather leave the instance than risk running the rest of the place.
Life as a resto shaman at launch was an exercise in pain. I didn't see any of this triage they talked about prior to the expansion; my cheap but small heal was weak and I'd see a tanks health drop even if I was belting out Healing Wave. That's alright though, I've got hex, the elemental cc and I can interrupt to help reduce incoming damage! Oh wait, my interrupts randomly miss and my CC's are something nobody should rely on because they generally break early due to the pulse resist.
What made it even worse, I'd go into a heroic with a holy paladin friend and he'd have a far easier time, with his heals being better, having much better mana efficiency and more tank saving cooldowns.
It amazes me that with only 5 healing specs, there was such a contrast at launch.
There are people posting in that thread though, in favor of warlock tanking. Maybe if they get enough noise going they'll reconsider. I know it sounds like I'm just being hopeful (which I am) but historically Blizz will react if there's enough of an outcry. Also, one post in particular makes a good point as well: I was thinking about this myself. People are still going to try to tank as warlocks. It'll happen, and people will be frustrated that they can't, even though they'll be lead to believe otherwise. The glyph will probably end up being changed over the beta to the point where it's completely different from how it is right now though. And judging from GC's second post it seems like they're doing that.
I wish I was able to post in the beta forums. I wanna voice my concerns :S
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Considering how much Arcane is shifting towards time manipulation, I wouldn't have put it past Blizzard* to do something crazy like make it a healing spec wherein the Mage rewinds the wounds on their allies. See that gaping hole in your chest? Rewind time a bit, now it's gone!
*(if they had gone through with Demonology Tanks. Which they haven't. Which has made me immensely sad.
@Dibby: It's so frustrating to be an EU player for this game at times, exactly because of this. You can voice your concerns but be damned if you'll get a response most of the time. I want someone to point me in the right direction so that I can go begging for this idea to get a second chance.
As it stands I'll still try out Affliction and Destruction. But in the end it'll be like the... Fourth, maybe(?) class that I try to get to 90 instead of my number 1 priority. Which goes back to my Monk. Which I guess I'll tank on and have to put up with those stupid statues.
Both were visible in vanilla, but when they updated the skyboxes in Burning Crusade or something they apparently forgot about the second one so it disappeared. The joke on my server was that Illidan ate it because it was not prepared. I'm sure other servers had similar jokes (if it's disappearance was even noticed).
Well, apparently it's back now for MoP, oddly enough. I had forgotten about it, and you'd think if it was in the cards to get added back it would have returned during the Cataclysm update. Perhaps the Mists from Pandaria were obscuring part of the sky all these years or something.
I wouldn't mind this as a tank, then i get instant queues and don't have to baby sit as a price for it. :^:
[obligatory]That's no moon.[/obligatory]
edit: Also; Duke Starkiller. Just because.
0431-6094-6446-7088
If that means we get to meet up with that bitching intelligent raptor for Azshara then I'd be all for it.
I still see both moons but then I think because I play at night I see the night sky
I think draenor is a moon of whatever planet you see in Nagrand
Hopefully I don't feel pressured into not only getting all BiS gear, but to upgrade all my BiS gear, along with gemming and enchanting it all.
The primary source for valor for most players is still going to come from LFD, and they're stick with the concept that the first tier of heroics still offer blue gear. The valor upgrades was stated to be for epics; so they're banking on everyone doing LFR for those epics to use their Valor for.
But for someone who just wants to do heroics, or never wins anything in LFR? They'll just be piling up Valor without a damn thing to use it on. And then the next tier will come and that'll all turn into JP which can be used to buy....oh wait, there was no valor gear last tier so your new JP is completely worthless. awesome.
This stuff drives me nuts. Sure, maybe they've got something planned to use JP/VP on other than valor to upgrade epics and jp to...oh wait, nothing. I don't want to believe that a team of people who have been working on this game for 10+ years could be that short sighted but man...at least what they've let us know about valor so far just seems like some piss poor ass decision making.
Upgrading epics is fine, though it's going to do funky things to ilvl inflation for each major patch and if they were worried about megadamage before ololol. But there has to be alternate options for spending valor, and thus jp, than simply upgrading gear you get elsewhere. I don't care if it's just "hey, pets for valor" or some shit. Something, but they say explicitly in that watercooler that they're toying with having nothing buyable with VP.
Short sightedness seems to abound in these decisions.
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Not sure about the valor changes, though, really need to see what's on the vendors and where else we're getting loot from first.
Also, if it's possible, I really want to be part of an LFR boss kill where everyone wins loot or gold or shit. :^:
hahaha
I don't really like what they are suggesting either
but that hadn't even occured to me
You know, every time I read comments like this, I want to point out that Blizzard has experienced game designers that know what they're doing.
Then I remember this is the same group of designers that made it that winning TB on offense netted you 1800 honor, and didn't foresee win trading happening...
So yeah, they should have at least off-set gear available from VP vendors.
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It's possible that they won't degrade to Justice anymore. I didn't see any mention of Valor not carrying forward in MoP and no mention at all of Justice points.
Then you decide to run LFR and start getting 476 ilvl gear, and if you like you can make it better with valor and bring it up to 484 iLvL. And Normal Mode Raids will drop 489.
With that system, I don't really see a need to reset your Valor back to 0. And so you don't need justice points either. What we get is a system that accounts for the super bad luck of not getting an item to drop and gives you an alternative advancement. An alternative that is "good enough" and doesn't make the thrill of your item dropping going away since the dropped item will always be better than the previous tier item that is upgraded by a few ilvls.
EDIT: On top of that, who is the upgrading going to appeal to, really?
Someone who doesn't care about raiding is less concerned about the actual ilvl of the gear and more about getting a purple in that slot to begin with. I do LFR on various characters because I'm seeking matching gear. I could easily buy whatever 397 item from the Valor vendor but it doesn't match the LFR gear, that I'm aiming for. I'm not worried that I'm putting on a 384 instead of a 397 and that I could make that 384 a 392 doesn't really matter to me because full 384 gear is enough to usually top or damn near top dps charts in LFR, the highest content I'm going to do that patch cycle.
I mean, if there's nothing else to spend the valor on I'm sure that I will upgrade them, but that's simply because of a lack of anything else to do with the valor, not because I want to.
It appeals to actual raiders because it gives them a higher ilvl and thus a higher chance at doing bosses/hm's etc. But the thing is, raiders already have various forms of ilvl advancement, without the need to add in this arbitrary change.
And another (bad) side effect of the lack of purchasable items is they'll have to expand the loot tables of bosses to account for it. Random things, slots, are usually bought so that a boss doesn't have vanilla levels of item possibilities. This doesn't really mean anything for the LFR loot system now, but for actual raiders, it's going to be harder to get what they want and there'll be more sharding. I mean, instead of putting the int plate belt on a vendor it's on a loot table and you know there'll be raids that get that fucking thing week after week; when it shouldn't be there to begin with because blizzard won't sack up and make str/sta plate work for holy pallies (or make int/sta gear work again for ret/prot).
It's not that I don't understand why they're doing these things and toying with the changes, it just seems like they're trading one problem for another in a hope for a misdirect, or something. Things aren't actually being solved, just danced around.
EDIT2: Also I understand that these are just things being "tossed around" atm. That they're not for sure things and there's bound to be fixes and changes. That's fine. I'm not spazzing out, I'm just responding to the things said specifically and what I see wrong with them.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Still kinda do.