On the whole Lion Turtle thing and the ending of Airbender. It could've been handled better. I agree with that.
On the other hand, I've lowered my expectations to the point that I can enjoy the ending for what it is. TLA was on a budget guys.
Personally, I'm not sure I entirely believed Azula's breakdown. It was too fast and too convenient. I somehow doubt that not bonding with daddy over genocide would really make her that crazy.
there's also the whole being betrayed by the only two people she'd put her trust in and reaching her goal, leaving her engine of machination and scheming paranoia with no target and that, in tandem with the aforementioned betrayal, causing her to lash out at the people close to her and eventually, left with no one, to lash out at herself
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
An argument about semantics, an argument about hyperbole (AND THAT IS STRETCHING THE DEFINITION OF ARGUMENT MY GOD), and now we're gonna bitch about catholics and the Dali Llama?
I am experience the Cabbage Man's life in forum motion.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
On the whole Lion Turtle thing and the ending of Airbender. It could've been handled better. I agree with that.
On the other hand, I've lowered my expectations to the point that I can enjoy the ending for what it is. TLA was on a budget guys.
Personally, I'm not sure I entirely believed Azula's breakdown.
A really well told story?
No, but good try.
As with Nightmarenny, I do appreciate what they were trying to accomplish thematically but felt it could have been handled better or taken in a better direction.
In the case of Azula, I felt that her defeat was too easy. I guess maybe the point was that Zuko has matured into a socially-conscious individual with friends while Azula has degenerated into paranoia. But it still feels off somehow. I don't really believe that Azula could be brought down by mommy and daddy issues.
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
tenzin gyatso, the 14th dalai lama, is a reasonable and progressive dude
Yeah wasn't there a big thing relatively recently about him making the position of Dalai Lama no longer the highest/sole authority in tibet?
I just didn't want to engage twenty sided because he is a super goose
Only because the Chinese occupation ousted him and won't let him back in, so this is the only real way to win support for his cause while attempting to maintain some kind of religious orthodoxy.
The Catholic Church also said they were super sorry about the thing with Galileo. It didn't stop them from diddling choir boys though.
Yes, because in the 2,000 years of the Catholic Church that's all they've accomplished. *I am eye rolling so hard right now*
If you're looking to see how flexible a religion institution can be, even a monastic order, it really changes based on location and leadership. Some Buddist Monks were very chill and meditated a lot on inner peace, others were sword chewing badass who killed men by the dozens. Some European Monks made nice books and bibles, others became warrior pirate doctors.
Wow, I'm glad all your opinions of the Mystic Religions of the Orient are informed by romantic stereotypes.
We'll ignore that Buddhism was originally about complete self-annihilation in the afterlife because life sucks and suffering is inevitable and you're going to get reincarnated into it over-and-over.
unfortunately my thread cleansing powers are useless here
I cannot save you guys
from yourselves
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Yeah, Azula was a sociopath who lost the closest thing she had to friends. And they said "We're not afraid of you." Then she unexpectedly was crowned the new ruler of the Fire Nation. Super Duper unexpected stress on a young sociopath who is reeling from a major loss and is, essentially, throwing the biggest bitchfit on everyone because no one can call her out on her shit anymore.
Not quite on the level of "Aang has issues with killing people, now he doesn't have to thanks to magic"
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
Yeah, Azula was a sociopath who lost the closest thing she had to friends. And they said "We're not afraid of you." Then she unexpectedly was crowned the new ruler of the Fire Nation. Super Duper unexpected stress on a young sociopath who is reeling from a major loss and is, essentially, throwing the biggest bitchfit on everyone because no one can call her out on her shit anymore.
Not quite on the level of "Aang has issues with killing people, now he doesn't have to thanks to magic"
Yeah, fair enough. It's a bit of a silly hang-up I have.
But yes, the introduction Spirit Bending was abrupt.
This reminds me of a bit of the epilogue of Sandman. Sure, you could have a tragic and ennobling ending that's all profound and shit. Or you can have a happy ending where all the messy ends are tied-up because we already have enough ambiguity in real life.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
He was a pacifist. He never wanted to fight. He never wanted to kill.
But he began to see it as necessary to kill the Firelord and wanted a way out.
He found anti-bending, and that was his way out.
Again, it treats it so the reason why Aang would have to kill the Firelord is because of his powerful bending. "I have a problem! I do not want to kill Ozai! But it looks like I have to! What do I do?" *BAM ENERGYBENDING* "Good! Now I don't have to kill him!"
If he was going to spare Ozai, I would have rather he spared him in full as to recognize that it isn't the bending that makes him powerful.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
On the whole Lion Turtle thing and the ending of Airbender. It could've been handled better. I agree with that.
On the other hand, I've lowered my expectations to the point that I can enjoy the ending for what it is. TLA was on a budget guys.
Personally, I'm not sure I entirely believed Azula's breakdown.
A really well told story?
No, but good try.
As with Nightmarenny, I do appreciate what they were trying to accomplish thematically but felt it could have been handled better or taken in a better direction.
In the case of Azula, I felt that her defeat was too easy. I guess maybe the point was that Zuko has matured into a socially-conscious individual with friends while Azula has degenerated into paranoia. But it still feels off somehow. I don't really believe that Azula could be brought down by mommy and daddy issues.
Didn't appear easy to me. It took
both Katara and Zuko to finally defeat her in a difficult battle. Had Azula's friends been there they'd have lost.
He was a pacifist. He never wanted to fight. He never wanted to kill.
But he began to see it as necessary to kill the Firelord and wanted a way out.
He found anti-bending, and that was his way out.
Again, it treats it so the reason why Aang would have to kill the Firelord is because of his powerful bending. "I have a problem! I do not want to kill Ozai! But it looks like I have to! What do I do?" *BAM ENERGYBENDING* "Good! Now I don't have to kill him!"
If he was going to spare Ozai, I would have rather he spared him in full as to recognize that it isn't the bending that makes him powerful.
no, it's lots of other stuff!
all he said about the bending was "I took away your firebending. You can never use it to hurt or threaten anyone again"
all of the other stuff is why they put ozai in prison
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
I'd disagree. The audience has to pick up on your pattern because you actually bothered to communicate to them. Picking up an arbitrary and incidental plot detail doesn't really do that. They needed to spend more air-time away from silly hijinks introducing this Spirit World crap.
Arguably that's not the fault of the crew, since they probably would've devoted an episode to doing just that if they had the budget/time.
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
The Lion Turtle's existence was never a problem.
That it is the holder of secret information that allows Aang to save the world without killing Ozai is.
Nothing foreshadows energy bending and the Lion Turtle is nothing but a plot device. We have no indication as to why he does what he does.
It doesn't seem to care about defending the balance of the world or else it would have gotten involved earlier. So does he care specifically for the Avatar? We can assume that he's never engaged the Avatar before since Aang went diving into his past-selves and found nothing. Maybe he didn't go far enough but that's speculation.
nightmarenny on
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
What are the examples of "help from the spirits" that had similiar levels of foreshadowing in the series within the context of the story being told?
Because Aang's pacifism and refusal to kill dated back to the start of the series, so the issue with fighting Ozai dated that far back. In roughly 60 episodes, it took until episode 59 or 60 for spiritbending to be mentioned.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
I'd disagree. The audience has to pick up on your pattern because you actually bothered to communicate to them. Picking up an arbitrary and incidental plot detail doesn't really do that. They needed to spend more air-time away from silly hijinks introducing this Spirit World crap.
Arguably that's not the fault of the crew, since they probably would've devoted an episode to doing just that if they had the budget/time.
wait what
aang goes to the spirit world like six or seven times
sokka even says, outright, "Aang disappears on the eve of a major battle? It's gotta be a trip to the spirit world!"
Posts
there's also the whole being betrayed by the only two people she'd put her trust in and reaching her goal, leaving her engine of machination and scheming paranoia with no target and that, in tandem with the aforementioned betrayal, causing her to lash out at the people close to her and eventually, left with no one, to lash out at herself
Honestly, I did not mean to imply that I don't like you! I'm just dumb that way.
I am experience the Cabbage Man's life in forum motion.
what are these lion turtles upon your face
soon you will see
all of your lion turtles will pass away
safe in my lion turtle's arms
No, but good try.
As with Nightmarenny, I do appreciate what they were trying to accomplish thematically but felt it could have been handled better or taken in a better direction.
In the case of Azula, I felt that her defeat was too easy. I guess maybe the point was that Zuko has matured into a socially-conscious individual with friends while Azula has degenerated into paranoia. But it still feels off somehow. I don't really believe that Azula could be brought down by mommy and daddy issues.
when you put it that way, quirk sounds like an insult for that guy
Wow, I'm glad all your opinions of the Mystic Religions of the Orient are informed by romantic stereotypes.
We'll ignore that Buddhism was originally about complete self-annihilation in the afterlife because life sucks and suffering is inevitable and you're going to get reincarnated into it over-and-over.
things are in motion
A LION TURTLE RISES
THE LION TURTLES HAVE COOOOME TO CARRY YOU HOOOOOME (you live on a lion turtle)
I cannot save you guys
from yourselves
Not quite on the level of "Aang has issues with killing people, now he doesn't have to thanks to magic"
...did you hire someone to break my legs
he refuses to kill people
he refuses to bend
and in the end
the world bent instead
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
Are you kidding?
Ozai was voiced by Mark Hamil.
Mark Hamil is always the final fucking boss.
only sadness.
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
Yeah, fair enough. It's a bit of a silly hang-up I have.
But yes, the introduction Spirit Bending was abrupt.
This reminds me of a bit of the epilogue of Sandman. Sure, you could have a tragic and ennobling ending that's all profound and shit. Or you can have a happy ending where all the messy ends are tied-up because we already have enough ambiguity in real life.
And it is a kid's show.
He was a pacifist. He never wanted to fight. He never wanted to kill.
But he began to see it as necessary to kill the Firelord and wanted a way out.
He found anti-bending, and that was his way out.
Again, it treats it so the reason why Aang would have to kill the Firelord is because of his powerful bending. "I have a problem! I do not want to kill Ozai! But it looks like I have to! What do I do?" *BAM ENERGYBENDING* "Good! Now I don't have to kill him!"
If he was going to spare Ozai, I would have rather he spared him in full as to recognize that it isn't the bending that makes him powerful.
we've got the eastern air temple and the western air temple on the opposite sides of the map
what's on the other side of the world
or are they secretly right beside each other or something
Didn't appear easy to me. It took
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
bend his convictions
no, it's lots of other stuff!
all he said about the bending was "I took away your firebending. You can never use it to hurt or threaten anyone again"
all of the other stuff is why they put ozai in prison
akavir
I don't have that much money
one day though you are going to
forget where you put your keys
I'd disagree. The audience has to pick up on your pattern because you actually bothered to communicate to them. Picking up an arbitrary and incidental plot detail doesn't really do that. They needed to spend more air-time away from silly hijinks introducing this Spirit World crap.
Arguably that's not the fault of the crew, since they probably would've devoted an episode to doing just that if they had the budget/time.
The Lion Turtle's existence was never a problem.
That it is the holder of secret information that allows Aang to save the world without killing Ozai is.
Nothing foreshadows energy bending and the Lion Turtle is nothing but a plot device. We have no indication as to why he does what he does.
It doesn't seem to care about defending the balance of the world or else it would have gotten involved earlier. So does he care specifically for the Avatar? We can assume that he's never engaged the Avatar before since Aang went diving into his past-selves and found nothing. Maybe he didn't go far enough but that's speculation.
Be. The. Leaf.
What are the examples of "help from the spirits" that had similiar levels of foreshadowing in the series within the context of the story being told?
Because Aang's pacifism and refusal to kill dated back to the start of the series, so the issue with fighting Ozai dated that far back. In roughly 60 episodes, it took until episode 59 or 60 for spiritbending to be mentioned.
Leave this place, and return only when you have found the true Peace of Mind required to know you made a thread that turned into this.
wait what
aang goes to the spirit world like six or seven times
sokka even says, outright, "Aang disappears on the eve of a major battle? It's gotta be a trip to the spirit world!"
maybe you guys could take all this to PMs?