Motive doesn't make sense. Koh idea of revenge was to steal the face of an Avatar's wife, not rob everybody of Bending. He's then perfectly happy to add Aang to his collection. Nothing explicitly personal anymore, but it'd be a pretty sweet trophy to top off his past feat.
Twenty Sided on
0
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The only reason why Koh is mentioned is because
1: Spirit backstory
2: The dude is hiding his face
That he is actually Koh is dumb. As. Balls.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Motive doesn't make sense. Koh idea of revenge was to steal the face of an Avatar's wife, not rob everybody of Bending. He's then perfectly happy to add Aang to his collection. Nothing explicitly personal anymore, but it'd be a pretty sweet trophy to top off his past feat.
I'm not pissed. I'm just shaking my head at what I'm seeing.
The stuff I hear people back up the points? About it not coming out of nowhere because of other things that came out of nowhere? That was not the impression I got when I watched those episodes. Those episodes made sense within the framework they were given and the story they were telling. Fuck, someone mentioned the fucking dragons as an example when the dragons were introduced as the firebending teachers in pretty much the same breath as the problem of Zuko losing his bending and what to do about it.
The entire series was building to the conflict with Aang and Ozai. Introducing energybending at the end changed that conflict in a way I do not appreciate. I would have rather had him finish the conflict as it had been foreshadowed, and I was looking forward to seeing how Aang would handle Ozai. The fact that energybending was an option changed the very nature of their conflict, so much so that I don't think he had to make a true decision about whether or not to kill Ozai.
I wanted to see his personal struggle and his success in solving that problem, like the series had been building up to. When energybending was introduced out of the blue it robbed that seminal moment of its impact for me.
That's why I don't like it. That's why I feel it was a cop out.
But he did make a decision. The decision was 'no.'
Then following the appropriate level of foreshadowing, this should horribly backfire or produce a less-than-satisfactory result.
(Example: There is no Spirit Bending. Ozai is imprisoned, but prominent factions of the Fire Nation oppose Zuko's rule, who see him as a traitorous weakling and want his head on a pike and want Ozai reinstated. They remain a persistent military threat. Fire and Earth Nations diplomacy remains sour for generations to come and negative stereotypes of Fire Nation as warmongers persist despite the best intentions of Zuko.)
I agree with Munkus that energy bending pretty much comes out of nowhere and it very much has the feeling of deus ex machina. If they'd had more time to work with it, perhaps it would have felt different. Same goes with Azula's personality shift. They built it up decently but it's still awfully sudden and doesn't entirely sit right.
As far as your alternative to Ozai being debended, I don't see why that couldn't have happened anyway. He lost his bending, not his mind. It's still entirely possible all that stuff did happen but was unsuccessful. 70 some years is a long time.
I think I would have been ok with it more if,
Had Koh asked for something in exchange. Like, "Aang, I will teach you the secret to energy bending, in exchange I want your first born son." Or something, instead of "Hey Bro, I heard you like pacifism, so I put pacifism in your bending."
Seems like it would have fit the spirits more.
see, even disregarding the context of the rest of the show
I feel like "I don't like killing people. But this time, I gotta. Moral ambiguity!" has been done plenty
while "I don't like killing people. I will not bend on this point, you will. Deal with it." is much more interesting to me
The Trigun manga was king at this, and it was truly excellent. Vash is willing to die to not kill people, but he does it to save a friend from an unstoppable monster with a death wish. And as soon as Vash does it? He goes right back to not-killing people, including his genocidal brother. It was a once-in-a-lifetime situation that needed a once-in-a-lifetime solution.
manwiththemachinegun on
0
Options
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
I'm not pissed. I'm just shaking my head at what I'm seeing.
The stuff I hear people back up the points? About it not coming out of nowhere because of other things that came out of nowhere? That was not the impression I got when I watched those episodes. Those episodes made sense within the framework they were given and the story they were telling. Fuck, someone mentioned the fucking dragons as an example when the dragons were introduced as the firebending teachers in pretty much the same breath as the problem of Zuko losing his bending and what to do about it.
The entire series was building to the conflict with Aang and Ozai. Introducing energybending at the end changed that conflict in a way I do not appreciate. I would have rather had him finish the conflict as it had been foreshadowed, and I was looking forward to seeing how Aang would handle Ozai. The fact that energybending was an option changed the very nature of their conflict, so much so that I don't think he had to make a true decision about whether or not to kill Ozai.
I wanted to see his personal struggle and his success in solving that problem, like the series had been building up to. When energybending was introduced out of the blue it robbed that seminal moment of its impact for me.
That's why I don't like it. That's why I feel it was a cop out.
But he did make a decision. The decision was 'no.'
Then following the appropriate level of foreshadowing, this should horribly backfire or produce a less-than-satisfactory result.
(Example: There is no Spirit Bending. Ozai is imprisoned, but prominent factions of the Fire Nation oppose Zuko's rule, who see him as a traitorous weakling and want his head on a pike and want Ozai reinstated. They remain a persistent military threat. Fire and Earth Nations diplomacy remains sour for generations to come and negative stereotypes of Fire Nation as warmongers persist.)
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Amon learned how to do what he does by studying info documented by someone we know it was previously used on. Someone with the means and certainly the motive to want to undo everything Aang and Zuko have accomplished.
You mean like a son who had no bending powers and who was received the least attention by his parents.
Baseless assumptions aren't a good way to start speculation. And I don't see any reason to speculate about a character we haven't seen and really know nothing about.
Also, not being a bender doesn't really mean he was the least important kid.
A number of important moments in Aang's story hinged on Sokka, who couldn't even really fight really well, let alone bend. I doubt either he or Katara would neglect him for not having bending.
Slightly tangental but my favorite pannel from Trigun:
In context he does this to save a friend who is so badly injured after his fight with an enhanced gunmen he can't even move. He's give a sadistic choice, his morals or the life of his friend. His whole life in someways has built to this moment. And does it break him?
Nope. He suffers though, but that's what heroes can do. Bear it.
I wouldn't mind it if a character like Mako or Korra or even Tenzen had to make a similar choice. I think it can be done excellently even in a 'kids' show.
manwiththemachinegun on
0
Options
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
My issue with the Koh theory (although it's fairly small and one that could probably be easily written away)
Koh steal their entire face, including the eyes, using the monkey Aang sees outside his den as an example. Amon still has his eyes. His squinty, shifty eyes.
I feel like Amon has to be someone original for the whole blight of the non-benders to carry any sympathetic weight at all.
I want him to be original, but have his power be related in some way to Aang's use.
uh
why
Internal consistency, for one. Energy bending was completely unheard of before Aang's use of it, even in theory. For it to be learned by someone else, completely independently, by someone who, as far as we know, can't bend at all, requires a fairly high suspension of disbelief
My issue with the Koh theory (although it's fairly small and one that could probably be easily written away)
Koh steal their entire face, including the eyes, using the monkey Aang sees outside his den as an example. Amon still has his eyes. His squinty, shifty eyes.
My issue with the Koh theory is that it hinges entirely on missing the forest for the trees.
Is kind of like Zhang in that he got access to some mystical knowledge that he shouldn't have access to. It could be related to Koh or Wan Shi Tong or some other spirit we haven't seen. I think there's a good chance that he'll have some connection to the original gang's story, but I don't think it will be so direct as him being secretly Bumi or something like that.
I feel like Amon has to be someone original for the whole blight of the non-benders to carry any sympathetic weight at all.
I want him to be original, but have his power be related in some way to Aang's use.
uh
why
Internal consistency, for one. Energy bending was completely unheard of before Aang's use of it, even in theory. For it to be learned by someone else, completely independently, by someone who, as far as we know, can't bend at all, requires a fairly high suspension of disbelief
They would just go ahead and show Amon's face right off the bat. Build up his identity during promos as some mystery everyone thinks is going to go on for most of the season, then just straight up reveal it in the 3rd episode. Would have made for an interesting departure from common narrative convention.
0
Options
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
They would just go ahead and show Amon's face right off the bat. Build up his identity during promos as some mystery everyone thinks is going to go on for most of the season, then just straight up reveal it in the 3rd episode. Would have made for an interesting departure from common narrative convention.
they could piss everyone off and go the "home improvement" route, where everyone else but the viewer gets to see his face, and whenever we're supposed to see it we instead get something conveniently obscuring the camera
I feel like Amon has to be someone original for the whole blight of the non-benders to carry any sympathetic weight at all.
I want him to be original, but have his power be related in some way to Aang's use.
uh
why
Internal consistency, for one. Energy bending was completely unheard of before Aang's use of it, even in theory. For it to be learned by someone else, completely independently, by someone who, as far as we know, can't bend at all, requires a fairly high suspension of disbelief
unless some evil spirit was like, "hey, teaching spirit-bending to the avatar, eh, lion-turtle? god, I hate the avatar. god, fuck that guy. I'm going to teach it to a total dick instead!"
which considering the running enmity between koh and avatars would work vis-a-vis koh being the guy who taught amon
especially since Koh's been established as basically the oldest spirit who still exists in the spirit realm (that's why he knew who the moon and ocean spirits were)
so it's not impossible that he remembers "the time before the avatar"
They would just go ahead and show Amon's face right off the bat. Build up his identity during promos as some mystery everyone thinks is going to go on for most of the season, then just straight up reveal it in the 3rd episode. Would have made for an interesting departure from common narrative convention.
well, if you're the leader of an underground terrorist organization, keeping your identity hidden is probably one of your top priorities
the mask doesn't necessarily have to act as a plot device for suspense/mystery (although it most likely is)
0
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I feel like Amon has to be someone original for the whole blight of the non-benders to carry any sympathetic weight at all.
I want him to be original, but have his power be related in some way to Aang's use.
uh
why
Internal consistency, for one. Energy bending was completely unheard of before Aang's use of it, even in theory. For it to be learned by someone else, completely independently, by someone who, as far as we know, can't bend at all, requires a fairly high suspension of disbelief
unless some evil spirit was like, "hey, teaching spirit-bending to the avatar, eh, lion-turtle? god, I hate the avatar. god, fuck that guy. I'm going to teach it to a total dick instead!"
which considering the running enmity between koh and avatars would work vis-a-vis koh being the guy who taught amon
especially since Koh's been established as basically the oldest spirit who still exists in the spirit realm (that's why he knew who the moon and ocean spirits were)
so it's not impossible that he remembers "the time before the avatar"
I would count that as being related to Aang's use. That's actually more akin to what I meant, that it's a ramification of his use. Not just a dude learned it from a scroll, maybe he specifically sought it because he heard about Aang using it and thought "Why not me" and found the turtle.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I feel like Amon has to be someone original for the whole blight of the non-benders to carry any sympathetic weight at all.
I want him to be original, but have his power be related in some way to Aang's use.
uh
why
Internal consistency, for one. Energy bending was completely unheard of before Aang's use of it, even in theory. For it to be learned by someone else, completely independently, by someone who, as far as we know, can't bend at all, requires a fairly high suspension of disbelief
Also, because Aang refusal to kill the Firelord for entirely personal reasons were more or less validated by a deus ex machina that a lot of people saw as a cop-out.
Creating consequences for that cop-out that Aang's predecessor now has to deal with would be a good way to address that.
Personally I liked the ending, but I completely understand other people being annoyed with it. It came out of nowhere, for the sole purpose of giving Aang an excuse to avoid killing, when everything and everyone up to that point was telling him that he had to do it.
They would just go ahead and show Amon's face right off the bat. Build up his identity during promos as some mystery everyone thinks is going to go on for most of the season, then just straight up reveal it in the 3rd episode. Would have made for an interesting departure from common narrative convention.
well, if you're the leader of an underground terrorist organization, keeping your identity hidden is probably one of your top priorities
the mask doesn't necessarily have to act as a plot device for suspense/mystery (although it most likely is)
Plus they could do the whole, if you kill me another will rise to take my place thing
Amon can never die, only the actors that play him
cartoon logic dictates that whoever wears a mask (whether it be an ally or a villain) will be revealed to be a character of whom the audience is already familiar with
so i'm guessing we'll be introduced to the maskless amon at least once before the reveal
Going from TLA to Korra is striking. The artistic style is of course very similar but it definitely looks evolved. Everything just seems more detailed. The high definition probably does a lot to influence that impression, but it feels like there is more to it. Characters don't look quite as cartoony, and this goes for the adults too. They did more to aim it for an older audience from an artistic standpoint that's both impressive and subtle. I didn't notice at all until going directly from one show to another.
Yeah, but it wasn't a self-referential Ouroboros then.
It's sufficient that Amon's mask makes him both menacing and mysterious.
0
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
They would just go ahead and show Amon's face right off the bat. Build up his identity during promos as some mystery everyone thinks is going to go on for most of the season, then just straight up reveal it in the 3rd episode. Would have made for an interesting departure from common narrative convention.
they could piss everyone off and go the "home improvement" route, where everyone else but the viewer gets to see his face, and whenever we're supposed to see it we instead get something conveniently obscuring the camera
You know they straight up show his face in one of the early episodes?
It was a halloween episode. He just had facepaint on.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Going from TLA to Korra is striking. The artistic style is of course very similar but it definitely looks evolved. Everything just seems more detailed. The high definition probably does a lot to influence that impression, but it feels like there is more to it. Characters don't look quite as cartoony, and this goes for the adults too. They did more to aim it for an older audience from an artistic standpoint that's both impressive and subtle. I didn't notice at all until going directly from one show to another.
not only does the quality of korra's animation stand out, but the industrial color scheme really defines that "mature" look of the show as well
Posts
Motive doesn't make sense. Koh idea of revenge was to steal the face of an Avatar's wife, not rob everybody of Bending. He's then perfectly happy to add Aang to his collection. Nothing explicitly personal anymore, but it'd be a pretty sweet trophy to top off his past feat.
2: The dude is hiding his face
That he is actually Koh is dumb. As. Balls.
didn't intend it to be a serious theory
I think I would have been ok with it more if,
Seems like it would have fit the spirits more.
The Trigun manga was king at this, and it was truly excellent. Vash is willing to die to not kill people, but he does it to save a friend from an unstoppable monster with a death wish. And as soon as Vash does it? He goes right back to not-killing people, including his genocidal brother. It was a once-in-a-lifetime situation that needed a once-in-a-lifetime solution.
your part (piece) of the conversation
is it say your piece or say your peace
I've never been clear on that idiom
That's ridiculous. Amon is not my cat.
I want him to be original, but have his power be related in some way to Aang's use.
Also, not being a bender doesn't really mean he was the least important kid.
A number of important moments in Aang's story hinged on Sokka, who couldn't even really fight really well, let alone bend. I doubt either he or Katara would neglect him for not having bending.
hm. hm.
Agreed.
In context he does this to save a friend who is so badly injured after his fight with an enhanced gunmen he can't even move. He's give a sadistic choice, his morals or the life of his friend. His whole life in someways has built to this moment. And does it break him?
Nope. He suffers though, but that's what heroes can do. Bear it.
I wouldn't mind it if a character like Mako or Korra or even Tenzen had to make a similar choice. I think it can be done excellently even in a 'kids' show.
uh
why
Internal consistency, for one. Energy bending was completely unheard of before Aang's use of it, even in theory. For it to be learned by someone else, completely independently, by someone who, as far as we know, can't bend at all, requires a fairly high suspension of disbelief
mark my words
he hides his face so we don't see he's covered in lemur fur
My issue with the Koh theory is that it hinges entirely on missing the forest for the trees.
Well, we don't really know what he's doing yet.
they could piss everyone off and go the "home improvement" route, where everyone else but the viewer gets to see his face, and whenever we're supposed to see it we instead get something conveniently obscuring the camera
unless some evil spirit was like, "hey, teaching spirit-bending to the avatar, eh, lion-turtle? god, I hate the avatar. god, fuck that guy. I'm going to teach it to a total dick instead!"
which considering the running enmity between koh and avatars would work vis-a-vis koh being the guy who taught amon
especially since Koh's been established as basically the oldest spirit who still exists in the spirit realm (that's why he knew who the moon and ocean spirits were)
so it's not impossible that he remembers "the time before the avatar"
well, if you're the leader of an underground terrorist organization, keeping your identity hidden is probably one of your top priorities
the mask doesn't necessarily have to act as a plot device for suspense/mystery (although it most likely is)
I would count that as being related to Aang's use. That's actually more akin to what I meant, that it's a ramification of his use. Not just a dude learned it from a scroll, maybe he specifically sought it because he heard about Aang using it and thought "Why not me" and found the turtle.
Also, because Aang refusal to kill the Firelord for entirely personal reasons were more or less validated by a deus ex machina that a lot of people saw as a cop-out.
Creating consequences for that cop-out that Aang's predecessor now has to deal with would be a good way to address that.
Personally I liked the ending, but I completely understand other people being annoyed with it. It came out of nowhere, for the sole purpose of giving Aang an excuse to avoid killing, when everything and everyone up to that point was telling him that he had to do it.
Plus they could do the whole, if you kill me another will rise to take my place thing
Amon can never die, only the actors that play him
Like, I'm pretty sure that's the spoken phrase.
Anyways, third episode was the tits. Everything about Naga and Pabu is awesome and gives me sweet nostalgia from Appa and Momo.
3DS FC: 4699-5714-8940 Playing Pokemon, add me! Ho, SATAN!
so i'm guessing we'll be introduced to the maskless amon at least once before the reveal
3DS FC: 4699-5714-8940 Playing Pokemon, add me! Ho, SATAN!
It's sufficient that Amon's mask makes him both menacing and mysterious.
You know they straight up show his face in one of the early episodes?
It was a halloween episode. He just had facepaint on.
not only does the quality of korra's animation stand out, but the industrial color scheme really defines that "mature" look of the show as well