Viscount Islands[INSERT SoKo HERE]...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered Userregular
Yeah he does a perfect job of hinting at the Red Wedding, so even when I was reading casually I just was really tense and anxious when Robb left and I didn't know why.
I want to do with you
What spring does with the cherry trees.
Yeah he does a perfect job of hinting at the Red Wedding, so even when I was reading casually I just was really tense and anxious when Robb left and I didn't know why.
I just finished reading a SoS, and he spells out the motive for why Robb leaves very blatantly clear, and he gives it the ominous feel like some shit is going down from the very moment he sends Robb's escort, the chapter with Caitlyn right before the one with.. Jaime or Arya(?) that confirms he's left for the wedding.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I was definitely more bummed out about the Viper. That fight got me so pumped up and then he's just dead. That scene almost hit me like Ned's did. With Dondarrion I was just supremely disappointed he wouldn't be kicking ass and taking names anymore.
Whereas with Rob and Cat, it was different because I could feel something weird coming, though I never thought he would do it I knew some shit was going to go down. There was just a lot of weird things happening like the wolf freaking out Cat's insistence that guest rights would protect them. I had a niggling feeling they were doomed. So when it happened I had more of a "I knew it!" moment than "Oh no they're dead!". When Ned bit the bullet I was new to GRRM, I was naive, innocent even. That scene hurt like a knife.
On reread, the foreshadowing of the Red Wedding is almost over the top. The entire book is sprinkled with hints that something fucked up will go down at that wedding.
He foreshadow's it in the House of the Undying in Book 2, even. Like, I think everyone knows, instinctively, what's going to happen, they just dismiss it because "nah," but then OH SHIT
The very first hints come during Arya's Harrenhall visit.
I was definitely more bummed out about the Viper. That fight got me so pumped up and then he's just dead. That scene almost hit me like Ned's did. With Dondarrion I was just supremely disappointed he wouldn't be kicking ass and taking names anymore.
Whereas with Rob and Cat, it was different because I could feel something weird coming, though I never thought he would do it I knew some shit was going to go down. There was just a lot of weird things happening like the wolf freaking out Cat's insistence that guest rights would protect them. I had a niggling feeling they were doomed. So when it happened I had more of a "I knew it!" moment than "Oh no they're dead!". When Ned bit the bullet I was new to GRRM, I was naive, innocent even. That scene hurt like a knife.
On reread, the foreshadowing of the Red Wedding is almost over the top. The entire book is sprinkled with hints that something fucked up will go down at that wedding.
He foreshadow's it in the House of the Undying in Book 2, even. Like, I think everyone knows, instinctively, what's going to happen, they just dismiss it because "nah," but then OH SHIT
The very first hints come during Arya's Harrenhall visit.
There was a previous post that's right that the first foreshadowing was in the house of the undying, but I think what you're talking about might've came first(?).. I can't remember the order for the first anecdote about guest right being violated, I think there was definitely one in the North with a Jon PoV at least once, too. And Harrenhall Arya definitely had one because one happened at Harrenhall(?)
I felt stupid when the Viper bought the farm. I was so into the fight I couldn't see the meta story. There was no way in hell Tyrion gets out of gaol twice with the same stunt, but it still took me completely by surprise.
Regarding the Boltons and Jon Snow...would they be aware that Robb declared Jon his heir? If Roose knew about that, and then told Ramsay, then yeah, there's no way either would want him around. Even if he didn't know, Roose is the one that actually killed Robb, so I think he'd want to eliminate the threat of revenge. Also, that letter is still floating around somewhere, right?
Jon turned down Stannis. Would he refuse his dead brother?
Regarding the Boltons and Jon Snow...would they be aware that Robb declared Jon his heir? If Roose knew about that, and then told Ramsay, then yeah, there's no way either would want him around. Even if he didn't know, Roose is the one that actually killed Robb, so I think he'd want to eliminate the threat of revenge. Also, that letter is still floating around somewhere, right?
Jon turned down Stannis. Would he refuse his dead brother?
I'm reading Feast for Crows right now (It's funny to notice how GRRM's writing style changes to a more consistent unreliable narrator in the later novels, and especially with Cersei.. One of my biggest gripes (with the first book in particular, but you see some serious evolution) was how alike their 'word' thought process was so similar region to region. I mean, it's just a nitpick)
I haven't seen it brought up since the RW, but I'm just getting deep into AFFC (reading the chapter where the iron men have their kingsmoot right now.), and you do hear of Riverun and the blackfish, and he is one of the few who would know of Robb's heir thoughts (since he had told it only to his MoM, and it was left unclear whether he shared the thoughts with anyone before the RW, but it could be in the subtext or in some of the unclear descriptions given.) Most of the important/relevant players do know of Stannis' offer to Jon with regards to Winterfell, but the fact that Robb was to choose him heir as well hasn't been brought up, and i figure the blackfish is the only one who would be a likely knower.
I'm reading Feast for Crows right now (It's funny to notice how GRRM's writing style changes to a more consistent unreliable narrator in the later novels, and especially with Cersei.. One of my biggest gripes (with the first book in particular, but you see some serious evolution) was how alike their 'word' thought process was so similar region to region. I mean, it's just a nitpick)
I agree that the voice definitely gets better in later novels (although partly it's also just that we start getting more PoVs from different areas) but Ned was pretty much THE unreliable narrator of the series. We spend like 2 books as first time readers just unwrangling all the bullshit Ned fed the audience in book 1.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Pretty sure the letter naming his heir is with Maege Mormont, who was sent to treat with Howland Reed.
The Mormonts and the Reeds are staunch Stark loyalists. I do not think the contents of that letter are known to many. Especially considering the Freys might have killed a good deal of those "in the know."
That said,
DWD Spoilers:
Whoever is named heir still has to contend with a few Manderlys, a Glover, and Davos knowing Rickon is alive somewhere on Skagos.
Didn't he send a letter with some of his people naming his heir?
dwd spoilers
Yeah, but that letter should have arrived sometime in DWD. It didn't, so either it's massively delayed, or lost.
Didn't Robb send the letter with Ned's bones? Did we see that caravan in Dance? I totally can't remember.
I know we didn't see Ned's bones in Dance, because
Lady Dustin informs Theon that the bones will never make it past her town:
“Ned Stark returned the horse to me on his way back home to Winterfell. He told me that my lord had died an honorable death, that his body had been laid to rest beneath the red mountains of Dorne. He brought his sister’s bones back north, though, and there she rests… but I promise you, Lord Eddard’s bones will never rest beside hers. I mean to feed them to my dogs.”
Theon did not understand. “His… his bones…?”
Her lips twisted. It was an ugly smile, a smile that reminded him of Ramsay’s. “Catelyn Tully dispatched Lord Eddard’s bones north before the Red Wedding, but your iron uncle seized Moat Cailin and closed the way. I have been watching ever since. Should those bones ever emerge from the swamps, they will get no farther than Barrowton.” She threw one last lingering look at the likeness of Eddard Stark. “We are done here.”
And, regarding the letter:
". . . And [she is] dead. No one has seen or heard of Arya since they cut Father's head off. Why do you lie to yourself? Arya's gone, the same as Bran and Rickon, and they'll kill Sansa too once the dwarf gets a child from her. Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice."
"I cannot," she said. "In all else, Robb. In everything. But not in this … this folly. Do not ask it."
"I don't have to. I'm the king." Robb turned and walked off, Grey Wind bounding down from the tomb and loping after him.
and, a bit later:
"One more matter. Lord Balon has left chaos in his wake, we hope. I would not do the same. Yet I have no son as yet, my brothers Bran and Rickon are dead, and my sister is wed to a Lannister. I've thought long and hard about who might follow me. I command you now as my true and loyal lords to fix your seals to this document as witnesses to my decision."
That's all I can find on the letter. Shortly thereafter, the Red Wedding happens. There's no real indication that Maege got a copy, but nothing prevents it from being true.
Looking at it, we are meant to suppose that the "document" mentioned contains the royal decree legitimatizing Jon. But it isn't made explicit - he may have listened to his mother after all and arranged for someone else to be his heir; if that's the case, that document could be headed anywhere.
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
He's referring to the text never explicitly naming the Bolton-armored figure as Roose
At least I'm pretty sure it doesn't, cause I'm in the same boat as nexus and always forget that, oh yeah, that was Roose. I keep wanting to think it was Ramsay for some reason.
He's referring to the text never explicitly naming the Bolton-armored figure as Roose
At least I'm pretty sure it doesn't, cause I'm in the same boat as nexus and always forget that, oh yeah, that was Roose. I keep wanting to think it was Ramsay for some reason.
I don't remember how clear the description is, but he speaks the line, "Jaime Lannister sends his regards". And that is a pretty clear reference to Roose.
Pretty sure it describes his armour (Or his cape anyway) and again, there's that line "Jamie Lannister sends his regards". Which we know Cat heard, who probably assumes it was Jaime that put them up to it, not Tywin. Which won't go well for him for at all at all.
I wouldn't be too bothered by Jaime getting killed. He's made attempts at redemption, but not enough for me to see him as much more than the evil son of a bitch he was in Book 1.
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Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
I wouldn't be too bothered by Jaime getting killed. He's made attempts at redemption, but not enough for me to see him as much more than the evil son of a bitch he was in Book 1.
Jaime's had my favorite arc in the story so far, barring maybe Theon's, and for him to be unceremoniously killed by Cat would bum me out. It would feel... wasteful. His character just has so much shitty-behavior baggage that I love seeing him try to do the just thing.
Yeah so there's a girl at work who's watching the series, and new guy at work who's read the books. And he started talking about them with her. Imagine say, the 5 most spoilerific things that yet to come after the 2 seasons, and he probably hit at least 4 of them. Yes, those things.
I was all like, "Dude! Spoilers! She hasn't read the books!" and he kept going "Oh but the show's so different now it doesn't even matter!" Fortunately before he could make it worse he got a phone call and I told her to run or he'd ruin the rest. And then one of the server guys came over and told him to keep it down because several of them over there haven't read the books either.
I wouldn't be too bothered by Jaime getting killed. He's made attempts at redemption, but not enough for me to see him as much more than the evil son of a bitch he was in Book 1.
Jaime's had my favorite arc in the story so far, barring maybe Theon's, and for him to be unceremoniously killed by Cat would bum me out. It would feel... wasteful. His character just has so much shitty-behavior baggage that I love seeing him try to do the just thing.
Well in dance he runs off with brienne. Seems like the two of them might end up being the new brotherhood leaders
Yeah so there's a girl at work who's watching the series, and new guy at work who's read the books. And he started talking about them with her. Imagine say, the 5 most spoilerific things that yet to come after the 2 seasons, and he probably hit at least 4 of them. Yes, those things.
I was all like, "Dude! Spoilers! She hasn't read the books!" and he kept going "Oh but the show's so different now it doesn't even matter!" Fortunately before he could make it worse he got a phone call and I told her to run or he'd ruin the rest. And then one of the server guys came over and told him to keep it down because several of them over there haven't read the books either.
This is just unbelievable, I tell all my show friends to stay away from the facebook game of thrones page, people post spoilers in there non-stop. Hell im even careful when talking to my show friend on the bus, to make sure i dont spoil it for someone else on the bus/train, since half the books I see people now are game of thrones, tis an awesome feeling, seeing something you've loved for a long time suddenly get a bigger audience
I wouldn't be too bothered by Jaime getting killed. He's made attempts at redemption, but not enough for me to see him as much more than the evil son of a bitch he was in Book 1.
Jaime's had my favorite arc in the story so far, barring maybe Theon's, and for him to be unceremoniously killed by Cat would bum me out. It would feel... wasteful. His character just has so much shitty-behavior baggage that I love seeing him try to do the just thing.
Well in dance he runs off with brienne. Seems like the two of them might end up being the new brotherhood leaders
hmm?
The implication there is
Brienne is taking Jaime to Stoneheart to be killed, isn't it?
I don't Brienne is all that thrilled about her attempted murder, will probably have Jaime off Lady Stoneheart and the brotherhood seems to have some might makes right leader system so maybe they'll be made the leaders or Brienne will I dunno. Or Zomcat could make Brienne and Jaime fight to the death and kill the winner who knows, besides GRRM right now anyway.
I don't Brienne is all that thrilled about her attempted murder, will probably have Jaime off Lady Stoneheart and the brotherhood seems to have some might makes right leader system so maybe they'll be made the leaders or Brienne will I dunno. Or Zomcat could make Brienne and Jaime fight to the death and kill the winner who knows, besides GRRM right now anyway.
It depends on one thing. The she said at the end of feast. She could have
said something to turn cat around. I doubt brienne is offering him up to get murdered its obvious she's kind of in love with Jaime.
Yeah...
I hope she convinced unCat that Jaime is trustworthy.
I'd say it hinges on Brienne's sense of loyalty. If she's convinced that her loyalty to unCat is equivalent to her loyalty to Cat, then that supercedes every other promise. Which means, regardless of her feelings, Jaime is going to die. Which makes their romance tragic, which is sort of GRRM's thing.
MattitudePaste Pot PeteKicking The BucketRegistered Userregular
So, a friend of mine is working his way through the audiobooks, and he's currently at Storm Of Swords. Then the other day he tweeted:
I hope in Feast for Crows and Dances with Dragons have chapters for Robb. I hate hearing about him and the war through Catelyn!
I cannot wait till 'it' happens. I had to bite my twitter tongue so hard.
I got this Tumblr and I don't know how to use it.
Decide on the next line by the rhyme when I choose it.
Also I put songs on YouTube
The musings of this lonely rube.
I made a thread once. It didn't end well for me.
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Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
So, a friend of mine is working his way through the audiobooks, and he's currently at Storm Of Swords. Then the other day he tweeted:
I hope in Feast for Crows and Dances with Dragons have chapters for Robb. I hate hearing about him and the war through Catelyn!
I cannot wait till 'it' happens. I had to bite my twitter tongue so hard.
On the plus side, he won't have to hear about him and the war through Catelyn anymore!
It's amazing to me when people tweet about stuff like that while they're reading these books, but I'm super paranoid about not wanting things spoiled for me or for friends who're reading. I basically yelled "DON'T GOOGLE ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING" to a friend of mine when she had a question about a direwolf.
Posts
What spring does with the cherry trees.
I just finished reading a SoS, and he spells out the motive for why Robb leaves very blatantly clear, and he gives it the ominous feel like some shit is going down from the very moment he sends Robb's escort, the chapter with Caitlyn right before the one with.. Jaime or Arya(?) that confirms he's left for the wedding.
The very first hints come during Arya's Harrenhall visit.
There was a previous post that's right that the first foreshadowing was in the house of the undying, but I think what you're talking about might've came first(?).. I can't remember the order for the first anecdote about guest right being violated, I think there was definitely one in the North with a Jon PoV at least once, too. And Harrenhall Arya definitely had one because one happened at Harrenhall(?)
Jon turned down Stannis. Would he refuse his dead brother?
I'm reading Feast for Crows right now (It's funny to notice how GRRM's writing style changes to a more consistent unreliable narrator in the later novels, and especially with Cersei.. One of my biggest gripes (with the first book in particular, but you see some serious evolution) was how alike their 'word' thought process was so similar region to region. I mean, it's just a nitpick)
I haven't seen it brought up since the RW, but I'm just getting deep into AFFC (reading the chapter where the iron men have their kingsmoot right now.), and you do hear of Riverun and the blackfish, and he is one of the few who would know of Robb's heir thoughts (since he had told it only to his MoM, and it was left unclear whether he shared the thoughts with anyone before the RW, but it could be in the subtext or in some of the unclear descriptions given.) Most of the important/relevant players do know of Stannis' offer to Jon with regards to Winterfell, but the fact that Robb was to choose him heir as well hasn't been brought up, and i figure the blackfish is the only one who would be a likely knower.
I agree that the voice definitely gets better in later novels (although partly it's also just that we start getting more PoVs from different areas) but Ned was pretty much THE unreliable narrator of the series. We spend like 2 books as first time readers just unwrangling all the bullshit Ned fed the audience in book 1.
dwd spoilers
Didn't Robb send the letter with Ned's bones? Did we see that caravan in Dance? I totally can't remember.
The Mormonts and the Reeds are staunch Stark loyalists. I do not think the contents of that letter are known to many. Especially considering the Freys might have killed a good deal of those "in the know."
That said,
DWD Spoilers:
I know we didn't see Ned's bones in Dance, because
And, regarding the letter:
and, a bit later:
That's all I can find on the letter. Shortly thereafter, the Red Wedding happens. There's no real indication that Maege got a copy, but nothing prevents it from being true.
Looking at it, we are meant to suppose that the "document" mentioned contains the royal decree legitimatizing Jon. But it isn't made explicit - he may have listened to his mother after all and arranged for someone else to be his heir; if that's the case, that document could be headed anywhere.
You have no idea how lucky you are and you hope. :P
Well, no. The "new content in 2013" bit likely refers to season 3 airing.
edit (x2): Also, we're hopefully getting new content this year. The Lands of Ice and Fire book is due out around Halloween.
they don't say ti directly right IIRC it's just his armor is described
Technically he stabs him in the heart, no?
In the back through the heart, I guess.
He's referring to the text never explicitly naming the Bolton-armored figure as Roose
At least I'm pretty sure it doesn't, cause I'm in the same boat as nexus and always forget that, oh yeah, that was Roose. I keep wanting to think it was Ramsay for some reason.
I don't remember how clear the description is, but he speaks the line, "Jaime Lannister sends his regards". And that is a pretty clear reference to Roose.
Jaime's had my favorite arc in the story so far, barring maybe Theon's, and for him to be unceremoniously killed by Cat would bum me out. It would feel... wasteful. His character just has so much shitty-behavior baggage that I love seeing him try to do the just thing.
I was all like, "Dude! Spoilers! She hasn't read the books!" and he kept going "Oh but the show's so different now it doesn't even matter!" Fortunately before he could make it worse he got a phone call and I told her to run or he'd ruin the rest. And then one of the server guys came over and told him to keep it down because several of them over there haven't read the books either.
Well in dance he runs off with brienne. Seems like the two of them might end up being the new brotherhood leaders
This is just unbelievable, I tell all my show friends to stay away from the facebook game of thrones page, people post spoilers in there non-stop. Hell im even careful when talking to my show friend on the bus, to make sure i dont spoil it for someone else on the bus/train, since half the books I see people now are game of thrones, tis an awesome feeling, seeing something you've loved for a long time suddenly get a bigger audience
hmm?
The implication there is
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Me on Twitch!
Hadn't considered that. Interesting.
Yeah...
I'd say it hinges on Brienne's sense of loyalty. If she's convinced that her loyalty to unCat is equivalent to her loyalty to Cat, then that supercedes every other promise. Which means, regardless of her feelings, Jaime is going to die. Which makes their romance tragic, which is sort of GRRM's thing.
If you really want to know what she said, GRRM confirmed it a few months ago (seems obvious, in retrospect).
I cannot wait till 'it' happens. I had to bite my twitter tongue so hard.
Decide on the next line by the rhyme when I choose it.
Also I put songs on YouTube
The musings of this lonely rube.
I made a thread once. It didn't end well for me.
On the plus side, he won't have to hear about him and the war through Catelyn anymore!
It's amazing to me when people tweet about stuff like that while they're reading these books, but I'm super paranoid about not wanting things spoiled for me or for friends who're reading. I basically yelled "DON'T GOOGLE ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING" to a friend of mine when she had a question about a direwolf.