Has there been ANY explanation for Death Knights hooking up with Alliance/Horde? They seem to be staying silent on the lore for this. Death Knight strike?
Nothing as of yet. I don't even know what they could do. What, the Death Knight questline makes you free a Death Knight from the clutches of the Lich King or something and now he's a "good" Death Knight. O_o
It's probably gonna be stupid but playing as a Death Knight will be sweet8-)
You are all silly. You'd have to be pretty unobservant or unaware of general game mechanics to not have a working understanding of any class, starting at 60 or not, in a month. And that's if you don't read class specific forums on the whole thing or do any research at all. Sure, you'll be making newb mistakes here and there but they'll go away in a lot faster time than starting 1-60 would take.
That said, I would personally still prefer starting at level 1 as a DK, perhaps with rested experience the whole way. I would prefer that over just starting at 60 or 70 myself.
It's not that you have no idea what to do, it's that starting a fresh character who has like 50 skills is pretty overwhelming. It's hard to get a grip on. It's much better to gradually introduce skills bit by bit, and let the player assimilate them in small chunks. In essence, it's cutting it up the steak and chewing it piece by piece instead of covering the thing in vasoline and trying to jam it all down your throat in one gulp.
Maybe its an experiment by both the horde and alliance to create their own death knight corps that are free from the lich king's control. Fighting fire against fire, or ice against ice in this case. Using magic or science or whatever, they succeed in turning some brave volunteers into death knights or some such nonsense.
I think instead of letting you create a new character at 60 they will just up the exp rate of the 1-59 levels.
Meaning you still get the experience, not exp, or levelling. Im talking real world experience, how to play your class. But it is condensed.
Think of 1-60 as a crash course in playing Druid, for example, if you pick druid. So instead of getting a lv 60 character off the bat, you spend say 2-3 weeks levelling one from 1-60. That would be definetly the best and easiest way to satisfy everyone.
People arent thrown in at 60 with no knowledge of the class, but they dont have the huge grind to level up to that level. Sure if you dont have months of play (though at the moment I can probably level any class 1-60 in less than a month real world time with minimal playtime (an few hours a day tops) but you do actually know what you are doing.
I honestly believe Blizzard will do this too. Especially if they are upping the cap to 80. 60-70 was a long haul. It was fun the entire way and didnt feel like a stretch but it did take a long time. I could probably do 1-60 quicker than 60-70 no probs. If now you have 70-80 then the 'endgame' of new stuff, as in 60+ is well over the time you need to get 1-60.
Old world azeroth doesnt need changing. You just half the exp needed to level up for each level. Sure you will only do half the quests because they go grey quicker, but hell, gives you more choice. At the moment everyone going 1-60 simply HAS to do Arathi, or HAS to do STV. They definetly need an SM run or two, andyou cant skip zones. Desolace is perhaps the only zone I regularly just miss out when levelling an alt. I pretty much do ALL the other zones and most of the quests. Giving you more freedom would probably increase the fun even though you probably end up doing half the content. I can skip fucking Searing Gorge, or the whole of Stranglethorn because I simply level out of it in a much quicker rate.
Anyone with me on this? I do fully believe this kind of thing will happen. I do not see Blizzard retuning any content, too much effort. Flick a switch and tweak some numbers rather than code content, map quests and put in all that jazz. Sure its boring cause you dont get any 'new' content for 1-60 but you breeze through the old stuff so quick that it doesnt feel bad.
Which is why I dont feel the 1-60 levelling is so bad. Cause I have it so perfected I can literally level 1-60 in about 4 and a half days /played. And it doesnt require extended play, just follow a guide, dont do instances and pick up every quest. You would be surprised how easy it is to just gauntlet the whole of the old world. Shit, my Warlock is now sitting at just over 40 and I started it about 2 weeks ago real world time. Im just boming through it which is why when people complain about 1-60 being so bad I dont really see it. Sure its not 'fun' to level so quick, and thats why I play my main a lot to keep the rested exp going, but for a first timer just joining WoW, like friends I have introduced, 1-60 is the best thing ever, then 60-70 is like a next level of awesome. Noone complains about 1-60 first time through , its good content, its fun and varied and interesting. Its only on your 2nd, 3rd 4th plus alts that it becomes boring, but thats why you need to 'power level' as it were. Get that shit over with asap cause I fully agree, Outlands is like WoW done right and makes the old world look archaic.
My guess is that certain members of the Horde/Alliance started studying the magic of Death Knights and learned to wield the rune-based magic for themselves.
The_Scarab, Blizzard has already said that Death Knights will start at somewhere between 58-70. Besides lore reasons (Death Knights are skilled, experienced combatants that fell from grace), you also had to get a previous character to 80 in addition to doing a long-is and fairly pricey quest-line.
Yeah, I was talking about what Luke Smith has been waxing about for ages, get to 70 buy a 60 of a different class. Basically, a cure for altitis.
I wasnt referring to Death Knights. Im down with them being inserted at 58 or 60 or whatever. Thats great. Its a Hero class. A hero class shouldnt be fucking killing lv 4 murlocs in Silverpine because some dick at the sepulcre needs to make a herb bag or something.
Has there been ANY explanation for Death Knights hooking up with Alliance/Horde? They seem to be staying silent on the lore for this. Death Knight strike?
Nothing as of yet. I don't even know what they could do. What, the Death Knight questline makes you free a Death Knight from the clutches of the Lich King or something and now he's a "good" Death Knight. O_o
It's probably gonna be stupid but playing as a Death Knight will be sweet8-)
I think the idea is that you, as a Death Knight, serve the Lich King. You're with the Scourge now.
It would be interesting to see how they would handle that idea.
Has there been ANY explanation for Death Knights hooking up with Alliance/Horde? They seem to be staying silent on the lore for this. Death Knight strike?
Nothing as of yet. I don't even know what they could do. What, the Death Knight questline makes you free a Death Knight from the clutches of the Lich King or something and now he's a "good" Death Knight. O_o
It's probably gonna be stupid but playing as a Death Knight will be sweet8-)
I think the idea is that you, as a Death Knight, serve the Lich King. You're with the Scourge now.
It would be interesting to see how they would handle that idea.
Not gonna happen. You think they're going to add a third faction just for this?
wow, everyone seems to take this so lightly??? i, personally, find myself quite pissed off
sure, this will take 12-18 months to materialize, but i dont want to go through this again
Ive dinged 60 a total of 4 times (gnome rogue, gnome mage, gnome warlock, gnome warrior)
and dinged 70 twice
What can i say? i want to cry
Wake up and look around people
BC was a FAILURE in terms of raiding and in balancing raid vs pvp rewards
I want from a cutting edge Naxx completion guild in Regular WoW to a struggling BC raiding guild do the the total screw up on blizzard's end
The progressive raid content destroyed casual guilds and split hardcore guilds in half
Lets not even talk about qualifying to get into the next steps of dungeons before blizz lefted some of the requirements and just focus on the vials.
My guild is split between 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK. The final encounters of both of those areas has taken a toll on us that i cannot even begin to describe.
Now, i have to look forward to 10 more levels and more raid content?
I think they are going to completely redo their raid progression to sweep this mistake under the rug
I dont want to say this left a bad taste in my mouth, but it definately breaks the MMO addiction and lets you realize that there are better things to do with your time.
Why?
Why do i want to spend 4 hours a night 5 nights a week clearing content if i can spend 1 hour a week doing pvp/arena and have access to equal items?
Why do i want to clear raid content which only get hotfixed 2 weeks later and require us to relearn the entire encounter?
Why do i want to go back to get people keyed into top raid instances just to have to waste days doing it all over again next month when we lost more people to fatigue?
These are the questions that ive been asking myself for the last few months and i cannot find answers. An expansion with MORE levels MORE content and MORE headaches just seems to add to this.
wow, everyone seems to take this so lightly??? i, personally, find myself quite pissed off
sure, this will take 12-18 months to materialize, but i dont want to go through this again
Ive dinged 60 a total of 4 times (gnome rogue, gnome mage, gnome warlock, gnome warrior)
and dinged 70 twice
What can i say? i want to cry
Wake up and look around people
BC was a FAILURE in terms of raiding and in balancing raid vs pvp rewards
I want from a cutting edge Naxx completion guild in Regular WoW to a struggling BC raiding guild do the the total screw up on blizzard's end
The progressive raid content destroyed casual guilds and split hardcore guilds in half
Lets not even talk about qualifying to get into the next steps of dungeons before blizz lefted some of the requirements and just focus on the vials.
My guild is split between 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK. The final encounters of both of those areas has taken a toll on us that i cannot even begin to describe.
Now, i have to look forward to 10 more levels and more raid content?
I think they are going to completely redo their raid progression to sweep this mistake under the rug
I dont want to say this left a bad taste in my mouth, but it definately breaks the MMO addiction and lets you realize that there are better things to do with your time.
Why?
Why do i want to spend 4 hours a night 5 nights a week clearing content if i can spend 1 hour a week doing pvp/arena and have access to equal items?
Why do i want to clear raid content which only get hotfixed 2 weeks later and require us to relearn the entire encounter?
Why do i want to go back to get people keyed into top raid instances just to have to waste days doing it all over again next month when we lost more people to fatigue?
These are the questions that ive been asking myself for the last few months and i cannot find answers. An expansion with MORE levels MORE content and MORE headaches just seems to add to this.
I dunno, i just dont know
Gladiator gear is not very good at PvE for most classes, due to having lots of item points spent on resilience, a useless stat in PvE. Also, no mana regen for healing classes.
That said, yeah, raiding is a complete waste of time and effort. Its being released far too quickly compared to the level 60 stuff.
You mean. . .*GASP* Raiding has become for the experience and the accomplishment of beating the encounters over the phat loot? It's about fucking time, I say.
If you're a loot whore, or just care about being the best a PvP, then go PvP! That's why they added the fucking PvP gear in the first place! To create a separate PvP experience without forcing you to raid! The gear from raids is now specifically geared towards furthing raid progression.
It sounds like you just want the loot. So, quit the PvE game and play the PvP game. Voila. Problem solved.
No. 10 and 25 man raids meant a much larger amount of people could raid.
The hardcore guilds didnt all die either. The shitty hardcore did because they had got through previous raid content on numbers alone and not skill.
BC sorted the men from the boys and only the boys cry and whine about raid content being broken. BC fixed raiding, made it more accessible and less time consuming, and made it more fun and less of a ridiculous loot whore grind.
No. 10 and 25 man raids meant a much larger amount of people could raid.
The hardcore guilds didnt all die either. The shitty hardcore did because they had got through previous raid content on numbers alone and not skill.
BC sorted the men from the boys and only the boys cry and whine about raid content being broken. BC fixed raiding, made it more accessible and less time consuming, and made it more fun and less of a ridiculous loot whore grind.
I think you should be able to name your weapon(s) once you become a DK. This would be excellent. I don't care that they already have names, since you put your runes on them you should be able to rename them PERIOD.
~brought to you as a drunken midnight message
P.S. Good god shut up about everything else everyone, I mean good lord there's NEW DANCES
No. 10 and 25 man raids meant a much larger amount of people could raid.
The hardcore guilds didnt all die either. The shitty hardcore did because they had got through previous raid content on numbers alone and not skill.
BC sorted the men from the boys and only the boys cry and whine about raid content being broken. BC fixed raiding, made it more accessible and less time consuming, and made it more fun and less of a ridiculous loot whore grind.
wow, everyone seems to take this so lightly??? i, personally, find myself quite pissed off
sure, this will take 12-18 months to materialize, but i dont want to go through this again
Ive dinged 60 a total of 4 times (gnome rogue, gnome mage, gnome warlock, gnome warrior)
and dinged 70 twice
What can i say? i want to cry
Wake up and look around people
BC was a FAILURE in terms of raiding and in balancing raid vs pvp rewards
I want from a cutting edge Naxx completion guild in Regular WoW to a struggling BC raiding guild do the the total screw up on blizzard's end
The progressive raid content destroyed casual guilds and split hardcore guilds in half
Lets not even talk about qualifying to get into the next steps of dungeons before blizz lefted some of the requirements and just focus on the vials.
My guild is split between 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK. The final encounters of both of those areas has taken a toll on us that i cannot even begin to describe.
Now, i have to look forward to 10 more levels and more raid content?
I think they are going to completely redo their raid progression to sweep this mistake under the rug
I dont want to say this left a bad taste in my mouth, but it definately breaks the MMO addiction and lets you realize that there are better things to do with your time.
Why?
Why do i want to spend 4 hours a night 5 nights a week clearing content if i can spend 1 hour a week doing pvp/arena and have access to equal items?
Why do i want to clear raid content which only get hotfixed 2 weeks later and require us to relearn the entire encounter?
Why do i want to go back to get people keyed into top raid instances just to have to waste days doing it all over again next month when we lost more people to fatigue?
These are the questions that ive been asking myself for the last few months and i cannot find answers. An expansion with MORE levels MORE content and MORE headaches just seems to add to this.
I dunno, i just dont know
Gladiator gear is not very good at PvE for most classes, due to having lots of item points spent on resilience, a useless stat in PvE. Also, no mana regen for healing classes.
That said, yeah, raiding is a complete waste of time and effort. Its being released far too quickly compared to the level 60 stuff.
look at the weapons
ive seen countless rogues covered in crappy blues with 97.5 DPS arena swords
thats just.... depressing and thats what im talking about
I'm just curious, with the new character customization options will I be able to get a one shot chance at changing the look of my current characters? I don't want to start a new char just to take advantage of this new feature.
Oh yeah, I like the DK starting at 60, and I also like the environments and lore for Northrend. I just wish they would do some fine tuning of the 40-60 range... like maybe open some of those closed off areas of Azeroth.
You mean. . .*GASP* Raiding has become for the experience and the accomplishment of beating the encounters over the phat loot? It's about fucking time, I say.
If you're a loot whore, or just care about being the best a PvP, then go PvP! That's why they added the fucking PvP gear in the first place! To create a separate PvP experience without forcing you to raid! The gear from raids is now specifically geared towards furthing raid progression.
It sounds like you just want the loot. So, quit the PvE game and play the PvP game. Voila. Problem solved.
there are two problems with that statement if you dont mind me addressing them
1. THe PVE/RAid game is the game most/(me) enjoy and the reason we play WOW
this is why i joined a raid guild and explored content
THe problem is the upper level encounters are just stupid
Most of these high end encounters take 15-20 minutes to beat now (dumb), can completely wipe if one person screws up or lags, must be done one way and one way only, and require a lot of pre-reqs to get to.
Most people werent all about the loot, but the loot is a big part of it.
2. If i wanted to purely focus on PVP, id play another MMO.
I'm just curious, with the new character customization options will I be able to get a one shot chance at changing the look of my current characters? I don't want to start a new char just to take advantage of this new feature.
From the sounds of it, you'll be able to change your hair and dance, at the very least, whenever you want so long as you pay some gold.
You mean. . .*GASP* Raiding has become for the experience and the accomplishment of beating the encounters over the phat loot? It's about fucking time, I say.
If you're a loot whore, or just care about being the best a PvP, then go PvP! That's why they added the fucking PvP gear in the first place! To create a separate PvP experience without forcing you to raid! The gear from raids is now specifically geared towards furthing raid progression.
It sounds like you just want the loot. So, quit the PvE game and play the PvP game. Voila. Problem solved.
there are two problems with that statement if you dont mind me addressing them
1. THe PVE/RAid game is the game most/(me) enjoy and the reason we play WOW
this is why i joined a raid guild and explored content
THe problem is the upper level encounters are just stupid
Most of these high end encounters take 15-20 minutes to beat now (dumb), can completely wipe if one person screws up or lags, must be done one way and one way only, and require a lot of pre-reqs to get to.
Most people werent all about the loot, but the loot is a big part of it.
2. If i wanted to purely focus on PVP, id play another MMO.
Well, then, my apologies. From your post, it sounded very much like you were talking about how PvP gear is easier to get than Raid gear. Which shouldn't make a damn bit of difference if you're soley a raider.
As for the encounters. . .I don't know from first hand experience. But, honestly, the only one I really ever hear people complain about being too hard and too long is the Kael'thas encounter. It sounds like everything else is at a pretty good stage right now.
No. 10 and 25 man raids meant a much larger amount of people could raid.
The hardcore guilds didnt all die either. The shitty hardcore did because they had got through previous raid content on numbers alone and not skill.
BC sorted the men from the boys and only the boys cry and whine about raid content being broken. BC fixed raiding, made it more accessible and less time consuming, and made it more fun and less of a ridiculous loot whore grind.
this has to be the dumbest thing ever written about wow and raiding
Have you raided past kara yet?
Pre-BC raid progression made sense over its 2 year life span because people could naturally progress.
As your guild got better, you could cut out MC/BWL to focus on Naxx/Aq
Now, you can cut kara/gruul, but still have to spend 4 nights clearing TK/SSC before you can go into Hyjal and BT
If you honestly think kara is *raiding*, then we play the game in different ways.
Kara now is what UBRS or Strat was back when the game first came out. Yes, i remember going into Strat with 20 people, dont laugh
SSC and TK are segments of 45-90 minutes of trash for a boss fights which take 15-20 minutes
Its the duration of the boss fights that i seem to be having a problem with.
No. 10 and 25 man raids meant a much larger amount of people could raid.
The hardcore guilds didnt all die either. The shitty hardcore did because they had got through previous raid content on numbers alone and not skill.
BC sorted the men from the boys and only the boys cry and whine about raid content being broken. BC fixed raiding, made it more accessible and less time consuming, and made it more fun and less of a ridiculous loot whore grind.
this has to be the dumbest thing ever written about wow and raiding
Have you raided past kara yet?
Pre-BC raid progression made sense over its 2 year life span because people could naturally progress.
As your guild got better, you could cut out MC/BWL to focus on Naxx/Aq
Now, you can cut kara/gruul, but still have to spend 4 nights clearing TK/SSC before you can go into Hyjal and BT
If you honestly think kara is *raiding*, then we play the game in different ways.
Kara now is what UBRS or Strat was back when the game first came out. Yes, i remember going into Strat with 20 people, dont laugh
SSC and TK are segments of 45-90 minutes of trash for a boss fights which take 15-20 minutes
Its the duration of the boss fights that i seem to be having a problem with.
It just feels empty now, i cant explain it
Me and my guild downed Kael 'Thas about 4 days ago. I know a lot about raiding, and have raided since pretty much day one. Ive never been in any high profile world fist guilds or anything, but I know my stuff.
Pre-BC raiding was not fun. It was an exercise in babysitting 39 other people who on their own are smart intelligent and capable people, but in the group they go completely fucking retarded. In Burning Crusade even the 25 man stuff is completely manageable and for experienced guilds, you never ever have to wait any more than 3 minutes to get a full and balanced group together.
Do you want to know what it was like raiding Molten Core days after its release. Like pounding a nail through your dick that's what it was like. TBC fixes everything that was wrong with raiding. Time management. The fact that in a 40 man raid one person could go afk for 25 minutes, even during a boss fight, even in Naxx and above and noone would fucking notice. There was no skill in raiding pre TBC. Non at all. Anyone who says there was or even hints at it being in any way difficult is stupid.
Here's how raiding went as a main tank (arguably the most vital role in a raid) before the expansion:
Get online at raid time.
Be invited to group by raid leader.
Make your way to the meeting spot, usually just inside the instance.
Wait 25-30 minutes for everyone else to show up.
'Ok guys, buff up'
10 minutes pass.
First pull.
Trash
Trash
Trash
Trash
First boss. Down it.
Trash
Trash
MANA BREAK.
27 minutes pass.
Trash.....
And im not being sarcastic, or facetious here. This was a high end guild that was getting server firsts all over the place. Managing 40 people is insane. 10 man raiding is more dependant on individual player skill and not the average stats of an entire guild. The raids are better. the instances more fun. You say Kara isnt raiding, well its pretty fucking huge and the amount of epics is ludicrous for a 10 man dungeon. And no. Its isnt equivalent to UBRS. You are insane.
The fact that before TBC raiding was considered only for the super elite, for about 3 or 4 guilds per server per faction who could do anything at the cutting edge. And now every guild is running Kara. Everyone has the capability to raid. And now you, as some sort of super hardcore raider are pissed because raiding is more accessible. Way to be an elitist jerk (yeah yeah) and be selfish.
Sure raiding is easier now. But its also about a metric fuckton more fun and enjoyable, and doesnt feel like work. You can get instant gratification with all the rep rewards even if you dont get loot and if you are a loot whore then even the most basic of raid dungeons spew out purples like a vending machine.
Raiding is incredibly fun and enjoyable part of the game. And Im glad Ive been in the high end since day one. Now Im levelling a Warlock for the PVP side of the game but I know as a fact they melt faces in raids too.
You complain about progression? So instead of guilds having the CHOICE of which instance to raid, actually having a fucking variation to what they do every night instead of Naxx on mondays -fridays you say this is flawed? Man you are retarded. We can do Kara on monday, gruuls on tuesday, clear that. carry on kara again on wednesday. dip in TK or that stuff later in the week.
Pre TBC raiding was boring. Nothing but a race to get the next drop from the next equally uninteresting boss from an equally uninteresting instance. 40 man raiding is DEAD and I hope to fucking god it never returns.
scarab, im sorry, but i dont see where you are going with this
yes, i thought MC was the suck too... know what? i had to do it back when we had to run 40 people through BRD to even GET to the MC portal... OH SHIT! someone pulled a loose pack! RUN! THat was fucking stupid.
Or even worse, having to clear domo for an empty chest (1 hour of trash) just to spawn rag for attempts
been there, done that... not fun
My complaint about TBC raiding is how structured it is based on progression and requirements. Its NOT fun.
My raid guild was one of those *elites* you talk about. WHen TBC came out, we split in half because no one wanted to be considered the *B* team. When people started running kara, we split again cause some people started feeling left out... on KARA! (this was back 1 month after release mind you)
We trimmed down, rebuilt a little, plowed into raid content hard.
We cleared 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK... this is where the problem lies.
It takes us 2 raid nights to clear 5 bosses in SSC 3 in TK. We end up playing with vashj or kel depending on the raid make up, but in the end, the multi phase 15+ minute encounters are taking its toll on us.
25 man raids mean everyone is essential to completion. Im sure you know better than me how stupid it is to lose someone in an early phase of any fight whos either going to make the enrage timer run long or be needed in another phase.
While i enjoy the small group tactics more than a 40 man raid, i HATE how LONG they made the fights.
Are you telling me you enjoy sitting in combat for 20 minutes straight?
I look at the expansion and i see more of this... thats what pisses me off
'Tank n Spank' boss fights are boring. Even the strange strategy ones like cthun or most of the stuff in naxx was becoming more fun. Boss fights in MC and BWL boiled down to 2 things.
do a shit fuckload of dps.
dont let anyone die.
there were other minor requirements, and some unusual mechanics like vael. But in TBC boss fights require more skill, require actual strategy and actual planning, and the satisfaction of downing a boss after a long haul fight is a hell of a lot more than one shotting lucifron who works exactly like any other mob in the game only with more HP.
I cant imagine people complain about the boss fights being too long. The encounters are extremely fun and most raid dungeons have cut down on meaningless trash a lot.
wow, everyone seems to take this so lightly??? i, personally, find myself quite pissed off
sure, this will take 12-18 months to materialize, but i dont want to go through this again
Ive dinged 60 a total of 4 times (gnome rogue, gnome mage, gnome warlock, gnome warrior)
and dinged 70 twice
What can i say? i want to cry
Wake up and look around people
BC was a FAILURE in terms of raiding and in balancing raid vs pvp rewards
I want from a cutting edge Naxx completion guild in Regular WoW to a struggling BC raiding guild do the the total screw up on blizzard's end
The progressive raid content destroyed casual guilds and split hardcore guilds in half
Lets not even talk about qualifying to get into the next steps of dungeons before blizz lefted some of the requirements and just focus on the vials.
My guild is split between 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK. The final encounters of both of those areas has taken a toll on us that i cannot even begin to describe.
Now, i have to look forward to 10 more levels and more raid content?
I think they are going to completely redo their raid progression to sweep this mistake under the rug
I dont want to say this left a bad taste in my mouth, but it definately breaks the MMO addiction and lets you realize that there are better things to do with your time.
Why?
Why do i want to spend 4 hours a night 5 nights a week clearing content if i can spend 1 hour a week doing pvp/arena and have access to equal items?
Why do i want to clear raid content which only get hotfixed 2 weeks later and require us to relearn the entire encounter?
Why do i want to go back to get people keyed into top raid instances just to have to waste days doing it all over again next month when we lost more people to fatigue?
These are the questions that ive been asking myself for the last few months and i cannot find answers. An expansion with MORE levels MORE content and MORE headaches just seems to add to this.
I dunno, i just dont know
Gladiator gear is not very good at PvE for most classes, due to having lots of item points spent on resilience, a useless stat in PvE. Also, no mana regen for healing classes.
That said, yeah, raiding is a complete waste of time and effort. Its being released far too quickly compared to the level 60 stuff.
look at the weapons
ive seen countless rogues covered in crappy blues with 97.5 DPS arena swords
thats just.... depressing and thats what im talking about
Yes, it's absolutely horrible that raiders now have an alternative source of gear aside from inconsistent drops, so we can no longer have the joy of waiting until every piece of tier gear drops before we can move onto the next instance. :roll:
Gear to raid, don't raid to gear. :P
And about it not being fun; perhaps you're just disillusioned with the game in general? I find TBC raiding to be incredibly fun and challenging. Yes, encounters can run on the long and hard side occasionally, but it really ups the challenge and increases the feeling of accomplishment. If you're hanging around in the Black Temple, you are hardcore, and if you aren't hardcore you have plenty of other places to hang out. Of course, if none of that appeases you, perhaps you need a new game.
Also, people complaining about being on the Kara B-team are pussies. It just made it more of an accomplishment when we, in the B-team, began progressing past our predecessor raid.
Has there been ANY explanation for Death Knights hooking up with Alliance/Horde? They seem to be staying silent on the lore for this. Death Knight strike?
Nothing as of yet. I don't even know what they could do. What, the Death Knight questline makes you free a Death Knight from the clutches of the Lich King or something and now he's a "good" Death Knight. O_o
It's probably gonna be stupid but playing as a Death Knight will be sweet8-)
I think the idea is that you, as a Death Knight, serve the Lich King. You're with the Scourge now.
It would be interesting to see how they would handle that idea.
Not gonna happen. You think they're going to add a third faction just for this?
No, but you could start off KOS with ALL old world factions, and have to work your way up to being neutral with Stormwind/Oggy/etc..
Has there been ANY explanation for Death Knights hooking up with Alliance/Horde? They seem to be staying silent on the lore for this. Death Knight strike?
Nothing as of yet. I don't even know what they could do. What, the Death Knight questline makes you free a Death Knight from the clutches of the Lich King or something and now he's a "good" Death Knight. O_o
It's probably gonna be stupid but playing as a Death Knight will be sweet8-)
I think the idea is that you, as a Death Knight, serve the Lich King. You're with the Scourge now.
It would be interesting to see how they would handle that idea.
Not gonna happen. You think they're going to add a third faction just for this?
No, but you could start off KOS with ALL old world factions, and have to work your way up to being neutral with Stormwind/Oggy/etc..
Alternatively, you could be some sort of a mole. You're a death knight working for the lich king, but the alliance and horde don't have to know that, they just think you're a very odd warrior, or perhaps a buff warlock. I would buy it that the average ally/hordy would be oblivious to the fact that you spew necromantic energy and spawn armies of undead.
I'd guess that the deathknights have their own starter zone that has them doing quests for the scourge at first and by the end of the zone and the quest storyline therein they break away from the lich king's control (How they do so would probably be related to whatever questline you have to do to unlock them)
What I find funny is that the "new plague" all the lowbie Forsaken have been doing quests to help create all these years is going to now be used on the Scourge, rather than humanity.
Oh look I guess we're not so evil after all, fancy that.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
And about it not being fun; perhaps you're just disillusioned with the game in general? I find TBC raiding to be incredibly fun and challenging. Yes, encounters can run on the long and hard side occasionally, but it really ups the challenge and increases the feeling of accomplishment. If you're hanging around in the Black Temple, you are hardcore, and if you aren't hardcore you have plenty of other places to hang out. Of course, if none of that appeases you, perhaps you need a new game.
I really think everyone's raiding experience depends on how tight-knit they are with the people they are raiding with. I used to have tons more fun running MC on Proudmoore than running KZ on Draka just because I'd known the people on Proudmoore much much longer, some from leveling together, lots more from raiding Strath etc back when the guild was so small we had trouble putting together a full-guild UBRS run (back when you actually needed 15 people to clear it). Not to knock my guys on Draka, because they're all really mature, nice, and skilled players; but I just didn't have much time to become close friends with them before we started raiding.
Instead of 25 skilled people and 15 afkers, you now need about 25 relatively skilled to pretty highly skilled people, depending on the encunter. I'd say that's awesome
Paring 40 people down to the 25 skilled ones? No problem.
Taking those 25 people and only taking 40% of them to do what everyone considered the "First Raid To Do"? Bad.
They should have kept a clear line of 25 man progression in the game. You hit 70, run a few of the upper level instances, get some decent gear, and you should be ready (gear wise) to hit the first 25 man.
Paring 40 people down to the 25 skilled ones? No problem.
Taking those 25 people and only taking 40% of them to do what everyone considered the "First Raid To Do"? Bad.
They should have kept a clear line of 25 man progression in the game. You hit 70, run a few of the upper level instances, get some decent gear, and you should be ready (gear wise) to hit the first 25 man.
You have 25 raiders but you didn't realise you could take 20 to Karazahn at the same time?
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Paring 40 people down to the 25 skilled ones? No problem.
Taking those 25 people and only taking 40% of them to do what everyone considered the "First Raid To Do"? Bad.
They should have kept a clear line of 25 man progression in the game. You hit 70, run a few of the upper level instances, get some decent gear, and you should be ready (gear wise) to hit the first 25 man.
You have 25 raiders but you didn't realise you could take 20 to Karazahn at the same time?
The minute you split the reaid into 2 groups, there's always a B-group. The shitty group. The one that's not progressing as fast. That's not good for people sticking around.
Paring 40 people down to the 25 skilled ones? No problem.
Taking those 25 people and only taking 40% of them to do what everyone considered the "First Raid To Do"? Bad.
They should have kept a clear line of 25 man progression in the game. You hit 70, run a few of the upper level instances, get some decent gear, and you should be ready (gear wise) to hit the first 25 man.
You have 25 raiders but you didn't realise you could take 20 to Karazahn at the same time?
The minute you split the reaid into 2 groups, there's always a B-group. The shitty group. The one that's not progressing as fast. That's not good for people sticking around.
Actually, I think kara is the ''first raid to do'' and only required 10 raiders because early raiders who never tried naxx or MC or anything pre-bc will probably have difficulties to find 25 raiders.
Beside, my guild is doing just fine with 2 groups. Both are doing as great in kara.
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Nothing as of yet. I don't even know what they could do. What, the Death Knight questline makes you free a Death Knight from the clutches of the Lich King or something and now he's a "good" Death Knight. O_o
It's probably gonna be stupid but playing as a Death Knight will be sweet8-)
It's not that you have no idea what to do, it's that starting a fresh character who has like 50 skills is pretty overwhelming. It's hard to get a grip on. It's much better to gradually introduce skills bit by bit, and let the player assimilate them in small chunks. In essence, it's cutting it up the steak and chewing it piece by piece instead of covering the thing in vasoline and trying to jam it all down your throat in one gulp.
Meaning you still get the experience, not exp, or levelling. Im talking real world experience, how to play your class. But it is condensed.
Think of 1-60 as a crash course in playing Druid, for example, if you pick druid. So instead of getting a lv 60 character off the bat, you spend say 2-3 weeks levelling one from 1-60. That would be definetly the best and easiest way to satisfy everyone.
People arent thrown in at 60 with no knowledge of the class, but they dont have the huge grind to level up to that level. Sure if you dont have months of play (though at the moment I can probably level any class 1-60 in less than a month real world time with minimal playtime (an few hours a day tops) but you do actually know what you are doing.
I honestly believe Blizzard will do this too. Especially if they are upping the cap to 80. 60-70 was a long haul. It was fun the entire way and didnt feel like a stretch but it did take a long time. I could probably do 1-60 quicker than 60-70 no probs. If now you have 70-80 then the 'endgame' of new stuff, as in 60+ is well over the time you need to get 1-60.
Old world azeroth doesnt need changing. You just half the exp needed to level up for each level. Sure you will only do half the quests because they go grey quicker, but hell, gives you more choice. At the moment everyone going 1-60 simply HAS to do Arathi, or HAS to do STV. They definetly need an SM run or two, andyou cant skip zones. Desolace is perhaps the only zone I regularly just miss out when levelling an alt. I pretty much do ALL the other zones and most of the quests. Giving you more freedom would probably increase the fun even though you probably end up doing half the content. I can skip fucking Searing Gorge, or the whole of Stranglethorn because I simply level out of it in a much quicker rate.
Anyone with me on this? I do fully believe this kind of thing will happen. I do not see Blizzard retuning any content, too much effort. Flick a switch and tweak some numbers rather than code content, map quests and put in all that jazz. Sure its boring cause you dont get any 'new' content for 1-60 but you breeze through the old stuff so quick that it doesnt feel bad.
Which is why I dont feel the 1-60 levelling is so bad. Cause I have it so perfected I can literally level 1-60 in about 4 and a half days /played. And it doesnt require extended play, just follow a guide, dont do instances and pick up every quest. You would be surprised how easy it is to just gauntlet the whole of the old world. Shit, my Warlock is now sitting at just over 40 and I started it about 2 weeks ago real world time. Im just boming through it which is why when people complain about 1-60 being so bad I dont really see it. Sure its not 'fun' to level so quick, and thats why I play my main a lot to keep the rested exp going, but for a first timer just joining WoW, like friends I have introduced, 1-60 is the best thing ever, then 60-70 is like a next level of awesome. Noone complains about 1-60 first time through , its good content, its fun and varied and interesting. Its only on your 2nd, 3rd 4th plus alts that it becomes boring, but thats why you need to 'power level' as it were. Get that shit over with asap cause I fully agree, Outlands is like WoW done right and makes the old world look archaic.
I wasnt referring to Death Knights. Im down with them being inserted at 58 or 60 or whatever. Thats great. Its a Hero class. A hero class shouldnt be fucking killing lv 4 murlocs in Silverpine because some dick at the sepulcre needs to make a herb bag or something.
I think the idea is that you, as a Death Knight, serve the Lich King. You're with the Scourge now.
It would be interesting to see how they would handle that idea.
Not gonna happen. You think they're going to add a third faction just for this?
sure, this will take 12-18 months to materialize, but i dont want to go through this again
Ive dinged 60 a total of 4 times (gnome rogue, gnome mage, gnome warlock, gnome warrior)
and dinged 70 twice
What can i say? i want to cry
Wake up and look around people
BC was a FAILURE in terms of raiding and in balancing raid vs pvp rewards
I want from a cutting edge Naxx completion guild in Regular WoW to a struggling BC raiding guild do the the total screw up on blizzard's end
The progressive raid content destroyed casual guilds and split hardcore guilds in half
Lets not even talk about qualifying to get into the next steps of dungeons before blizz lefted some of the requirements and just focus on the vials.
My guild is split between 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK. The final encounters of both of those areas has taken a toll on us that i cannot even begin to describe.
Now, i have to look forward to 10 more levels and more raid content?
I think they are going to completely redo their raid progression to sweep this mistake under the rug
I dont want to say this left a bad taste in my mouth, but it definately breaks the MMO addiction and lets you realize that there are better things to do with your time.
Why?
Why do i want to spend 4 hours a night 5 nights a week clearing content if i can spend 1 hour a week doing pvp/arena and have access to equal items?
Why do i want to clear raid content which only get hotfixed 2 weeks later and require us to relearn the entire encounter?
Why do i want to go back to get people keyed into top raid instances just to have to waste days doing it all over again next month when we lost more people to fatigue?
These are the questions that ive been asking myself for the last few months and i cannot find answers. An expansion with MORE levels MORE content and MORE headaches just seems to add to this.
I dunno, i just dont know
Gladiator gear is not very good at PvE for most classes, due to having lots of item points spent on resilience, a useless stat in PvE. Also, no mana regen for healing classes.
That said, yeah, raiding is a complete waste of time and effort. Its being released far too quickly compared to the level 60 stuff.
If you're a loot whore, or just care about being the best a PvP, then go PvP! That's why they added the fucking PvP gear in the first place! To create a separate PvP experience without forcing you to raid! The gear from raids is now specifically geared towards furthing raid progression.
It sounds like you just want the loot. So, quit the PvE game and play the PvP game. Voila. Problem solved.
The hardcore guilds didnt all die either. The shitty hardcore did because they had got through previous raid content on numbers alone and not skill.
BC sorted the men from the boys and only the boys cry and whine about raid content being broken. BC fixed raiding, made it more accessible and less time consuming, and made it more fun and less of a ridiculous loot whore grind.
Thank you, Scarab.
~brought to you as a drunken midnight message
P.S. Good god shut up about everything else everyone, I mean good lord there's NEW DANCES
My Portfolio Site
Amen.
look at the weapons
ive seen countless rogues covered in crappy blues with 97.5 DPS arena swords
thats just.... depressing and thats what im talking about
Oh yeah, I like the DK starting at 60, and I also like the environments and lore for Northrend. I just wish they would do some fine tuning of the 40-60 range... like maybe open some of those closed off areas of Azeroth.
there are two problems with that statement if you dont mind me addressing them
1. THe PVE/RAid game is the game most/(me) enjoy and the reason we play WOW
this is why i joined a raid guild and explored content
THe problem is the upper level encounters are just stupid
Most of these high end encounters take 15-20 minutes to beat now (dumb), can completely wipe if one person screws up or lags, must be done one way and one way only, and require a lot of pre-reqs to get to.
Most people werent all about the loot, but the loot is a big part of it.
2. If i wanted to purely focus on PVP, id play another MMO.
From the sounds of it, you'll be able to change your hair and dance, at the very least, whenever you want so long as you pay some gold.
Well, then, my apologies. From your post, it sounded very much like you were talking about how PvP gear is easier to get than Raid gear. Which shouldn't make a damn bit of difference if you're soley a raider.
As for the encounters. . .I don't know from first hand experience. But, honestly, the only one I really ever hear people complain about being too hard and too long is the Kael'thas encounter. It sounds like everything else is at a pretty good stage right now.
this has to be the dumbest thing ever written about wow and raiding
Have you raided past kara yet?
Pre-BC raid progression made sense over its 2 year life span because people could naturally progress.
As your guild got better, you could cut out MC/BWL to focus on Naxx/Aq
Now, you can cut kara/gruul, but still have to spend 4 nights clearing TK/SSC before you can go into Hyjal and BT
If you honestly think kara is *raiding*, then we play the game in different ways.
Kara now is what UBRS or Strat was back when the game first came out. Yes, i remember going into Strat with 20 people, dont laugh
SSC and TK are segments of 45-90 minutes of trash for a boss fights which take 15-20 minutes
Its the duration of the boss fights that i seem to be having a problem with.
It just feels empty now, i cant explain it
Me and my guild downed Kael 'Thas about 4 days ago. I know a lot about raiding, and have raided since pretty much day one. Ive never been in any high profile world fist guilds or anything, but I know my stuff.
Pre-BC raiding was not fun. It was an exercise in babysitting 39 other people who on their own are smart intelligent and capable people, but in the group they go completely fucking retarded. In Burning Crusade even the 25 man stuff is completely manageable and for experienced guilds, you never ever have to wait any more than 3 minutes to get a full and balanced group together.
Do you want to know what it was like raiding Molten Core days after its release. Like pounding a nail through your dick that's what it was like. TBC fixes everything that was wrong with raiding. Time management. The fact that in a 40 man raid one person could go afk for 25 minutes, even during a boss fight, even in Naxx and above and noone would fucking notice. There was no skill in raiding pre TBC. Non at all. Anyone who says there was or even hints at it being in any way difficult is stupid.
Here's how raiding went as a main tank (arguably the most vital role in a raid) before the expansion:
Get online at raid time.
Be invited to group by raid leader.
Make your way to the meeting spot, usually just inside the instance.
Wait 25-30 minutes for everyone else to show up.
'Ok guys, buff up'
10 minutes pass.
First pull.
Trash
Trash
Trash
Trash
First boss. Down it.
Trash
Trash
MANA BREAK.
27 minutes pass.
Trash.....
And im not being sarcastic, or facetious here. This was a high end guild that was getting server firsts all over the place. Managing 40 people is insane. 10 man raiding is more dependant on individual player skill and not the average stats of an entire guild. The raids are better. the instances more fun. You say Kara isnt raiding, well its pretty fucking huge and the amount of epics is ludicrous for a 10 man dungeon. And no. Its isnt equivalent to UBRS. You are insane.
The fact that before TBC raiding was considered only for the super elite, for about 3 or 4 guilds per server per faction who could do anything at the cutting edge. And now every guild is running Kara. Everyone has the capability to raid. And now you, as some sort of super hardcore raider are pissed because raiding is more accessible. Way to be an elitist jerk (yeah yeah) and be selfish.
Sure raiding is easier now. But its also about a metric fuckton more fun and enjoyable, and doesnt feel like work. You can get instant gratification with all the rep rewards even if you dont get loot and if you are a loot whore then even the most basic of raid dungeons spew out purples like a vending machine.
Raiding is incredibly fun and enjoyable part of the game. And Im glad Ive been in the high end since day one. Now Im levelling a Warlock for the PVP side of the game but I know as a fact they melt faces in raids too.
You complain about progression? So instead of guilds having the CHOICE of which instance to raid, actually having a fucking variation to what they do every night instead of Naxx on mondays -fridays you say this is flawed? Man you are retarded. We can do Kara on monday, gruuls on tuesday, clear that. carry on kara again on wednesday. dip in TK or that stuff later in the week.
Pre TBC raiding was boring. Nothing but a race to get the next drop from the next equally uninteresting boss from an equally uninteresting instance. 40 man raiding is DEAD and I hope to fucking god it never returns.
yes, i thought MC was the suck too... know what? i had to do it back when we had to run 40 people through BRD to even GET to the MC portal... OH SHIT! someone pulled a loose pack! RUN! THat was fucking stupid.
Or even worse, having to clear domo for an empty chest (1 hour of trash) just to spawn rag for attempts
been there, done that... not fun
My complaint about TBC raiding is how structured it is based on progression and requirements. Its NOT fun.
My raid guild was one of those *elites* you talk about. WHen TBC came out, we split in half because no one wanted to be considered the *B* team. When people started running kara, we split again cause some people started feeling left out... on KARA! (this was back 1 month after release mind you)
We trimmed down, rebuilt a little, plowed into raid content hard.
We cleared 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK... this is where the problem lies.
It takes us 2 raid nights to clear 5 bosses in SSC 3 in TK. We end up playing with vashj or kel depending on the raid make up, but in the end, the multi phase 15+ minute encounters are taking its toll on us.
25 man raids mean everyone is essential to completion. Im sure you know better than me how stupid it is to lose someone in an early phase of any fight whos either going to make the enrage timer run long or be needed in another phase.
While i enjoy the small group tactics more than a 40 man raid, i HATE how LONG they made the fights.
Are you telling me you enjoy sitting in combat for 20 minutes straight?
I look at the expansion and i see more of this... thats what pisses me off
Boss fights are the only fun part of a raid man.
I think you are just insane. Completely insane.
'Tank n Spank' boss fights are boring. Even the strange strategy ones like cthun or most of the stuff in naxx was becoming more fun. Boss fights in MC and BWL boiled down to 2 things.
do a shit fuckload of dps.
dont let anyone die.
there were other minor requirements, and some unusual mechanics like vael. But in TBC boss fights require more skill, require actual strategy and actual planning, and the satisfaction of downing a boss after a long haul fight is a hell of a lot more than one shotting lucifron who works exactly like any other mob in the game only with more HP.
I cant imagine people complain about the boss fights being too long. The encounters are extremely fun and most raid dungeons have cut down on meaningless trash a lot.
new hairstyles huh?
Yes, it's absolutely horrible that raiders now have an alternative source of gear aside from inconsistent drops, so we can no longer have the joy of waiting until every piece of tier gear drops before we can move onto the next instance. :roll:
Gear to raid, don't raid to gear. :P
And about it not being fun; perhaps you're just disillusioned with the game in general? I find TBC raiding to be incredibly fun and challenging. Yes, encounters can run on the long and hard side occasionally, but it really ups the challenge and increases the feeling of accomplishment. If you're hanging around in the Black Temple, you are hardcore, and if you aren't hardcore you have plenty of other places to hang out. Of course, if none of that appeases you, perhaps you need a new game.
Also, people complaining about being on the Kara B-team are pussies. It just made it more of an accomplishment when we, in the B-team, began progressing past our predecessor raid.
No, but you could start off KOS with ALL old world factions, and have to work your way up to being neutral with Stormwind/Oggy/etc..
Oh look I guess we're not so evil after all, fancy that.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I really think everyone's raiding experience depends on how tight-knit they are with the people they are raiding with. I used to have tons more fun running MC on Proudmoore than running KZ on Draka just because I'd known the people on Proudmoore much much longer, some from leveling together, lots more from raiding Strath etc back when the guild was so small we had trouble putting together a full-guild UBRS run (back when you actually needed 15 people to clear it). Not to knock my guys on Draka, because they're all really mature, nice, and skilled players; but I just didn't have much time to become close friends with them before we started raiding.
Sadly, no... But here's a list of what you will get out of Rock Band:
[too much to fit in a sig, thats what]
Paring 40 people down to the 25 skilled ones? No problem.
Taking those 25 people and only taking 40% of them to do what everyone considered the "First Raid To Do"? Bad.
They should have kept a clear line of 25 man progression in the game. You hit 70, run a few of the upper level instances, get some decent gear, and you should be ready (gear wise) to hit the first 25 man.
You have 25 raiders but you didn't realise you could take 20 to Karazahn at the same time?
The minute you split the reaid into 2 groups, there's always a B-group. The shitty group. The one that's not progressing as fast. That's not good for people sticking around.
Actually, I think kara is the ''first raid to do'' and only required 10 raiders because early raiders who never tried naxx or MC or anything pre-bc will probably have difficulties to find 25 raiders.
Beside, my guild is doing just fine with 2 groups. Both are doing as great in kara.