If you cut it down to 25 skilled raiders why would you have a shitty group? If one group does consistantly poorer than the other, switch some members around.
You're all working towards the same goal, the 25 mans. It's not Blizzard's fault your guild has attitude problems.
The guild I'm in run two's Kara raids at exactly the same time, it's effectively just one 20 man raid in terms of organisation. And if one group finishes a boss behind at the end of the night, nobody gives a shit because they'll all be taken out on the second raid anyway.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
If you read your lore you know that the plague was intended for the Scourge at first all along.
It was always meant for the Scourge, but it was also said it was meant for humanity as well. What "humanity" meant was rather vague: was it simply humans who turned their backs on their fallen? Or the living world as a whole?
Either way, TBC showed us Forsaken doing good and fighting the Legion/Illidan/etc. It seems they are less "evil" than they initially were.
Who said we had a shitty group? We managed to whittle the guild down to a good 25 man group, which was a annoying in and of itself, but was doable.
The problem is you've got 25 people ready to go and then blizzard says "Oh, btw, only 10 people can come to the first raid". So, 5 people are out right off the bat. But since you always need more then 25 to run a 25 man raid anyway, there's always some people out anway. So we'll ignore them.
Ok, you take those 20 people, divide them up into 2 groups. Group A manages to down X boss, Group B doesn't. Group B is now the "bad" group. People don't wanna be in the bad group. People don't wanna help out the bad group as your progressing because they don't wanna get stuck on their timer. Or can't, cause their already on A's timer. And then people get pissed, drama ensues, people leave, etc.
With 2 groups, you set up "Haves" and "Have Nots" no matter what, and no one likes being a "Have Not". Unless somehow your 2 groups progress at exactly the same speed at all times.
I've seen it happen many, many times.
ZG worked fine because, in peoples minds, you didn't NEED to do it the way everyone thought you NEEDED to do Kara. So you'd always have a bunch of people who just thought "I don't need anything from ZG" or "I just don't wanna go". With Kara, it was "Sorry, no room".
Paring 40 people down to the 25 skilled ones? No problem.
Taking those 25 people and only taking 40% of them to do what everyone considered the "First Raid To Do"? Bad.
They should have kept a clear line of 25 man progression in the game. You hit 70, run a few of the upper level instances, get some decent gear, and you should be ready (gear wise) to hit the first 25 man.
You have 25 raiders but you didn't realise you could take 20 to Karazahn at the same time?
The minute you split the reaid into 2 groups, there's always a B-group. The shitty group. The one that's not progressing as fast. That's not good for people sticking around.
You said you had a shitty group.
And like I said, your guild members have an attitude problem if that's the way it goes.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Guys, this is a bit harsh. This is a really fucking complicated social situation. A group of forty must become four groups (most likely less) of ten. Invariably, one group will be the best, and the added responsibilities will drive competition even higher.
WoW players are not the most stable people to start with, I know that even my group that I consider to be a casual group of wonderful people got shaken badly by the expansion.
Paring 40 people down to the 25 skilled ones? No problem.
Taking those 25 people and only taking 40% of them to do what everyone considered the "First Raid To Do"? Bad.
They should have kept a clear line of 25 man progression in the game. You hit 70, run a few of the upper level instances, get some decent gear, and you should be ready (gear wise) to hit the first 25 man.
You have 25 raiders but you didn't realise you could take 20 to Karazahn at the same time?
The minute you split the reaid into 2 groups, there's always a B-group. The shitty group. The one that's not progressing as fast. That's not good for people sticking around.
You said you had a shitty group.
And like I said, your guild members have an attitude problem if that's the way it goes.
/sigh
It's about perception. People in the group that's not progressing as fast see it as the "shitty" group. The one that's not doing as well.
It's Blizzard's fault people don't want to be in the "B-raid" because they want to be the best always at everything and that they care more about beating bosses and getting loot than having fun raiding with their friends. How dare Blizzard force people to think this way!?
We had a group "lead by raid leader 1" and a group "lead by raid leader 2"
One group was progressing faster, but we simply used ideas and tactics that had proven successful in the other team too, next time, so it wasn't that bad
My guild had that kind of drama at first too, but they got over it.
They are now running three Kara groups and are getting ready to start a fouth.
It was bad a first, but mostly because all of the drama queens. And of course they had to make it worse for everyone else right? But once they left, everyone found it much more enjoyable.
Mild Confusion on
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Let me just drop in my 2gp. I am much happier with a Kara style endgame than a BT style endgame, although I can begrudgingly see the reason for having both.
However, I would rather see a "Heroic Kara" style 25 / 40 man style raid than two separate instances. It still feels wrong that there is some content in WOW that I'm just not "good enough" -- Good enough being defined as having a life outside of work and no parents to pay for my food/clothes/internet/wow -- to ever see.
Arthas, for example. Let us do a really difficult 10 man with him. Then, when we're ready, we could enter the "real" Frozen Throne with a full raid of 40 and go after him.
Bonus points for a 5 man version as well, just for shits and giggles.
And dear god, no more rep grinds. Or if there are, please make them interesting. Instead of "kill 150 birds for 40 feathers for 4 skulls" do stuff like "Hey, you're a leatherworker, we need 15 suits of Black Dragonscale Leather for our guards, can you do it?"
Maybe combine the rep grind rewards with the Rep Grinds themselves. "Ah, Mynnas, you are a good friend to our people. Have this recipe for boiled clam stew. Now go make us a few gallons of it."
Edit: I swear this fit in earlier in the thread when I started the post, but then a 4 hour disaster kept me away from the submit button.
And dear god, no more rep grinds. Or if there are, please make them interesting. Instead of "kill 150 birds for 40 feathers for 4 skulls" do stuff like "Hey, you're a leatherworker, we need 15 suits of Black Dragonscale Leather for our guards, can you do it?"
They are starting profession-related daily quests.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
And dear god, no more rep grinds. Or if there are, please make them interesting. Instead of "kill 150 birds for 40 feathers for 4 skulls" do stuff like "Hey, you're a leatherworker, we need 15 suits of Black Dragonscale Leather for our guards, can you do it?"
They are starting profession-related daily quests.
On the surface, it sounds good. Given the track record, I figure I'll get 50 Org rep and 11g if I turn in 10 cobrahide leg armor or something stupid. I have little faith that they can implement this idea well. 6 months down the line, they'll make it decent.
And dear god, no more rep grinds. Or if there are, please make them interesting. Instead of "kill 150 birds for 40 feathers for 4 skulls" do stuff like "Hey, you're a leatherworker, we need 15 suits of Black Dragonscale Leather for our guards, can you do it?"
They are starting profession-related daily quests.
On the surface, it sounds good. Given the track record, I figure I'll get 50 Org rep and 11g if I turn in 10 cobrahide leg armor or something stupid. I have little faith that they can implement this idea well. 6 months down the line, they'll make it decent.
Way to look on the brightside. The track record for profession grinds has not been good, but the dailies currently in the game have very high rewards for time invested.
And dear god, no more rep grinds. Or if there are, please make them interesting. Instead of "kill 150 birds for 40 feathers for 4 skulls" do stuff like "Hey, you're a leatherworker, we need 15 suits of Black Dragonscale Leather for our guards, can you do it?"
Maybe combine the rep grind rewards with the Rep Grinds themselves. "Ah, Mynnas, you are a good friend to our people. Have this recipe for boiled clam stew. Now go make us a few gallons of it."
.
One of my favourite quests ever was like this. I had to kill pirates to get 40 of their hats to appease some money crazy fashion designer in Tanaris. That was fucking awesome.
And dear god, no more rep grinds. Or if there are, please make them interesting. Instead of "kill 150 birds for 40 feathers for 4 skulls" do stuff like "Hey, you're a leatherworker, we need 15 suits of Black Dragonscale Leather for our guards, can you do it?"
Maybe combine the rep grind rewards with the Rep Grinds themselves. "Ah, Mynnas, you are a good friend to our people. Have this recipe for boiled clam stew. Now go make us a few gallons of it."
.
One of my favourite quests ever was like this. I had to kill pirates to get 40 of their hats to appease some money crazy fashion designer in Tanaris. That was fucking awesome.
The one I had in mind was the "casual" quest in Skettis, where you needed 40 somethingorother to get a widget of summoning to kill the hoozit of floppiness, in order to get 4 gizmos of summoning to summon an angry pidgeon of doom, or something.
In case you can't understand his retard-o speak, he's talking about the Terokk summoning quest line (which isn't all that bad once you get down to it).
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Yeah, I was talking about what Luke Smith has been waxing about for ages, get to 70 buy a 60 of a different class. Basically, a cure for altitis.
I wasnt referring to Death Knights. Im down with them being inserted at 58 or 60 or whatever. Thats great. Its a Hero class. A hero class shouldnt be fucking killing lv 4 murlocs in Silverpine because some dick at the sepulcre needs to make a herb bag or something.
Fucking quotalicious.
Adimax on
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
damn I'm sure this won't happen but I hope we can change how our existing characters look.
damn I'm sure this won't happen but I hope we can change how our existing characters look.
well hairstyles can change andthey are adding a load of new ones. dunno if hair colour can change. faces definetly cant change, kaplan said that. maybe decoration can, like the earrings and tendrils options.
The_Scarab on
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
damn I'm sure this won't happen but I hope we can change how our existing characters look.
well hairstyles can change andthey are adding a load of new ones. dunno if hair colour can change. faces definetly cant change, kaplan said that. maybe decoration can, like the earrings and tendrils options.
I wish I didn't care, but I definitely do.
thanks for the info there. I care most about hair, followed by tusks (I mostly play trolls , and I don't really care about my undead's looks).
Posts
You're all working towards the same goal, the 25 mans. It's not Blizzard's fault your guild has attitude problems.
The guild I'm in run two's Kara raids at exactly the same time, it's effectively just one 20 man raid in terms of organisation. And if one group finishes a boss behind at the end of the night, nobody gives a shit because they'll all be taken out on the second raid anyway.
Either way, TBC showed us Forsaken doing good and fighting the Legion/Illidan/etc. It seems they are less "evil" than they initially were.
The problem is you've got 25 people ready to go and then blizzard says "Oh, btw, only 10 people can come to the first raid". So, 5 people are out right off the bat. But since you always need more then 25 to run a 25 man raid anyway, there's always some people out anway. So we'll ignore them.
Ok, you take those 20 people, divide them up into 2 groups. Group A manages to down X boss, Group B doesn't. Group B is now the "bad" group. People don't wanna be in the bad group. People don't wanna help out the bad group as your progressing because they don't wanna get stuck on their timer. Or can't, cause their already on A's timer. And then people get pissed, drama ensues, people leave, etc.
With 2 groups, you set up "Haves" and "Have Nots" no matter what, and no one likes being a "Have Not". Unless somehow your 2 groups progress at exactly the same speed at all times.
I've seen it happen many, many times.
ZG worked fine because, in peoples minds, you didn't NEED to do it the way everyone thought you NEEDED to do Kara. So you'd always have a bunch of people who just thought "I don't need anything from ZG" or "I just don't wanna go". With Kara, it was "Sorry, no room".
You said you had a shitty group.
And like I said, your guild members have an attitude problem if that's the way it goes.
WoW players are not the most stable people to start with, I know that even my group that I consider to be a casual group of wonderful people got shaken badly by the expansion.
/sigh
It's about perception. People in the group that's not progressing as fast see it as the "shitty" group. The one that's not doing as well.
One group was progressing faster, but we simply used ideas and tactics that had proven successful in the other team too, next time, so it wasn't that bad
I suggested this in my own guild. Nobody got it. They didn't get "The Fighting Mongooses" either... I can't believe I didn't quit that guild sooner
And new hair styles
quite possibly with no rewards like the last one
They are now running three Kara groups and are getting ready to start a fouth.
It was bad a first, but mostly because all of the drama queens. And of course they had to make it worse for everyone else right? But once they left, everyone found it much more enjoyable.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
How many accounts does that translate into? How are things in the 25 person raids?
It depends on how you see things I guess. My guild has two groups that cleared Kara and have downed Gruul. They are working on Mag too I believe.
We are kind of a casual raiding guild. We like to raid, but it's not a 'OMFG WE ARE NOT ON ILLIDAN YET???? U SUXXORSZ'
It's too slow for some, but we have avoided a lot of drama. We get points for /gkicking people who ruin the experiance.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Ahem
:P
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
monster typo :P
Let me just drop in my 2gp. I am much happier with a Kara style endgame than a BT style endgame, although I can begrudgingly see the reason for having both.
However, I would rather see a "Heroic Kara" style 25 / 40 man style raid than two separate instances. It still feels wrong that there is some content in WOW that I'm just not "good enough" -- Good enough being defined as having a life outside of work and no parents to pay for my food/clothes/internet/wow -- to ever see.
Arthas, for example. Let us do a really difficult 10 man with him. Then, when we're ready, we could enter the "real" Frozen Throne with a full raid of 40 and go after him.
Bonus points for a 5 man version as well, just for shits and giggles.
And dear god, no more rep grinds. Or if there are, please make them interesting. Instead of "kill 150 birds for 40 feathers for 4 skulls" do stuff like "Hey, you're a leatherworker, we need 15 suits of Black Dragonscale Leather for our guards, can you do it?"
Maybe combine the rep grind rewards with the Rep Grinds themselves. "Ah, Mynnas, you are a good friend to our people. Have this recipe for boiled clam stew. Now go make us a few gallons of it."
Edit: I swear this fit in earlier in the thread when I started the post, but then a 4 hour disaster kept me away from the submit button.
They are starting profession-related daily quests.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
On the surface, it sounds good. Given the track record, I figure I'll get 50 Org rep and 11g if I turn in 10 cobrahide leg armor or something stupid. I have little faith that they can implement this idea well. 6 months down the line, they'll make it decent.
Way to look on the brightside. The track record for profession grinds has not been good, but the dailies currently in the game have very high rewards for time invested.
That's not one zone. You can see the boundaries.
Exactly why he posted it...
It's definitely not one zone. They demo'd about four zones in Northrend, the fjord one, the tundra, a grizzly bear forest, and a frozen zone.
One of my favourite quests ever was like this. I had to kill pirates to get 40 of their hats to appease some money crazy fashion designer in Tanaris. That was fucking awesome.
The one I had in mind was the "casual" quest in Skettis, where you needed 40 somethingorother to get a widget of summoning to kill the hoozit of floppiness, in order to get 4 gizmos of summoning to summon an angry pidgeon of doom, or something.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Oh jesus, money is now not desirable?
Fucking quotalicious.
well hairstyles can change andthey are adding a load of new ones. dunno if hair colour can change. faces definetly cant change, kaplan said that. maybe decoration can, like the earrings and tendrils options.
I wish I didn't care, but I definitely do.
thanks for the info there. I care most about hair, followed by tusks (I mostly play trolls