an irrational reaction is saying the whole game industry is filled with misogynist assholes and we need to burn the lot of them at the stake or whatever.
Who is saying this, exactly?
It's this dude:
Can't have people address the sexism in the gaming industry or we'll slide down the slippery slope of murder, and let's not forget censorship.
No, that is one hundred percent the kind of overreaction that makes a decent response to this so difficult. It took literally minutes for somebody to jump to a vast swath of conclusions concerning what I said; I didn't even have time to explain why handling this with a modicum of decorum and restraint is valuable before somebody passively-aggressively jumped down my throat over it.
A surge of outrage at a bunch of faceless people at a company we know little about besides two stupid, offensive events doesn't solve anything. Being mad is fine, being so offended that you criticize folks for saying "stop and think first" is a genuine problem unto itself. I'd rather see something good come of this, like getting the individuals involved removed from the game industry and the incident being a warning to the industry in general, than see a lot of bluster get thrown around and a people get canned for having the poor fortune of working for the wrong company at the wrong time.
What does "stop and think first" even mean here? What do you propose?
I feel like all that is being done here is people stating how this was a terrible decision. And yeah, we're directing that against the company, because the company is responsible for that product? I don't really see what your issue with this is?
I'm an American. I play violent video games, watch violent movies (made in a variety of countries) and I enjoy violent sports. I'm not an insane person for not being offended by this.
Let me try to help you understand one of the angles on this.
Video games have been fighting a big PR battle for the last, 10, 20 years. And it is a steep uphill battle. It's a mix of fighting the perception that people who play video games are lazy fucks, and video games are violent and are the cause of society's ills. This CE statue thing? This does not help the latter by a long shot. That is just one part why a lot of us are going, "FUCK!"
The rest I'm going to leave up to you.
I don't get it. You're talking about PR about sexism in video games (which does exist) but how does this statue say anything about sexism in video games? Would they have done better if you had the choice between male and female?
Hooray, I'm insulted and infracted for asking questions! Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Come on guys, if you're going to have a super mod calling people idiots for asking questions and then infract them for defending themselves... oh fuck it, who cares?
If you dont find this immediately offensive, you might want to go get your head checked out
I'm an American. I play violent video games, watch violent movies (made in a variety of countries) and I enjoy violent sports. I'm not an insane person for not being offended by this.
No, you're just the end result we're all trying to stop. Someone who doesn't see the issue and refuses to see it no matter how much proof is put in front of him.
That is going a bit far, isn't it? Fawst is not the personification of evil and sexism, he is just an opinionated guy who is not used to the forum.
NO ONE has said that.
Seriously, people, quit with the strawmen. It's gettin' real stupid.
I'm an American. I play violent video games, watch violent movies (made in a variety of countries) and I enjoy violent sports. I'm not an insane person for not being offended by this.
Let me try to help you understand one of the angles on this.
Video games have been fighting a big PR battle for the last, 10, 20 years. And it is a steep uphill battle. It's a mix of fighting the perception that people who play video games are lazy fucks, and video games are violent and are the cause of society's ills. This CE statue thing? This does not help the latter by a long shot. That is just one part why a lot of us are going, "FUCK!"
The rest I'm going to leave up to you.
That is an excellent explanation and is literally the first and only instance of that angle I've seen in this thread. I'm with you on that one, it's another one of those cases where you can't help but feel like the industry actually wants the spotlight on itself for the wrong reasons.
Yeah, that's incredibly tasteless and completely indefensible. (totally late to the party, re: OP)
It's a fine line though, regarding the question of "do I play it, do I buy it?"
As TSR said earlier, it's highly unlikely this was anything but in an incredibly piss poor marketing decision and I suspect quite a few people who actually made the game are pretty furious about it too.
Not buying it tells the company "no, fuck you, that was shit, and you don't deserve any of my money" which is perfectly legitimate. Not buying it also says "Sorry dev team, the game you worked hard on and could very well be a good game doesn't get my money because of a decision that is completely out of your hands, and this probably endangers your job at no fault of your own" which is also a legitimate concern.
What I'm saying is, I don't have any clue. Maybe I should get around to actually playing the first game sometime since it's just sitting in my Steam library. :rotate:
Clearly I'm going to have to spend the better part of the day digging up articles on sexism in the videogame industry or something, because I find it mind blowing that you people think that this was some nefarious plot by a secret society within the company that no one ever knew about.
Gaming, IT, technology jobs in general have a trend of sexism in both the audience and in the profession.
The fact that statues of mutilated womens torsos with magnificent globular breasts were manufactured probably says a lot about the company behind it, not just the marketing department.
Yes, secret societies within companies! That was totally said by anyone!
You don't think that maybe not everyone working at the company is a sexist shithead? Possibly? That there are people there that had nothing to do with the decision to do something really fucking stupid? People that are probably pissed off at it too?
No, no, you're right. It's much better to condemn them all and paint that brush as wide as possible. They're probably all hateful and terrible people.
Every single one.
Nothing wrong with that logic!
We have plenty of reason to believe that there is a culture of sexism at this point. Even if it's not all of them, what precisely would you propose if not denying them money for their product? Wagging your finger at them and wearing a stern expression? Yes because that's worked out so well on businesses in the past.
I'm an American. I play violent video games, watch violent movies (made in a variety of countries) and I enjoy violent sports. I'm not an insane person for not being offended by this.
Let me try to help you understand one of the angles on this.
Video games have been fighting a big PR battle for the last, 10, 20 years. And it is a steep uphill battle. It's a mix of fighting the perception that people who play video games are lazy fucks, and video games are violent and are the cause of society's ills. This CE statue thing? This does not help the latter by a long shot. That is just one part why a lot of us are going, "FUCK!"
The rest I'm going to leave up to you.
I don't get it. You're talking about PR about sexism in video games (which does exist) but how does this statue say anything about sexism in video games? Would they have done better if you had the choice between male and female?
i am open mouthed amazed. seriously.
it's a butchered female torso that still has perfect breasts. do you seriously not see the problem here.
+8
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I like crazy batshit stuff as much as anyone.....but I really don't see any value in this.
Unless your a huge zombie fan with tons of batshit stuff where this would be less of a stand out item than another one of the macabre.
Well, the real crime here is that this thing doesn't have anything to do with zombies. It's just a mutilated woman's torso. Not really bitten and eaten, but surgically mutilated.
If it was the bikini-clad top of a woman, with a head and hands, that also depicted a zombie biting into her, you'd be like "yeah okay, that's sexist and dumb but I see where they're going with it". But as it is, it's a mutilated torso that doesn't have anything to do with anything. Instead of thinking that it's really neat in a completely juvenile and dumb way, you just think "oh god, that's horrifying. The surgical clean limb removal, the big siliconoid spheres... the Union Jack? What monster designed this thing?"
I'm an American. I play violent video games, watch violent movies (made in a variety of countries) and I enjoy violent sports. I'm not an insane person for not being offended by this.
Let me try to help you understand one of the angles on this.
Video games have been fighting a big PR battle for the last, 10, 20 years. And it is a steep uphill battle. It's a mix of fighting the perception that people who play video games are lazy fucks, and video games are violent and are the cause of society's ills. This CE statue thing? This does not help the latter by a long shot. That is just one part why a lot of us are going, "FUCK!"
The rest I'm going to leave up to you.
I don't get it. You're talking about PR about sexism in video games (which does exist) but how does this statue say anything about sexism in video games? Would they have done better if you had the choice between male and female?
i am open mouthed amazed. seriously.
it's a butchered female torso that still has perfect breasts. do you seriously not see the problem here.
It's objectification in pretty much the most literal sense of the term, yet.
I'm an American. I play violent video games, watch violent movies (made in a variety of countries) and I enjoy violent sports. I'm not an insane person for not being offended by this.
Let me try to help you understand one of the angles on this.
Video games have been fighting a big PR battle for the last, 10, 20 years. And it is a steep uphill battle. It's a mix of fighting the perception that people who play video games are lazy fucks, and video games are violent and are the cause of society's ills. This CE statue thing? This does not help the latter by a long shot. That is just one part why a lot of us are going, "FUCK!"
The rest I'm going to leave up to you.
I don't get it. You're talking about PR about sexism in video games (which does exist) but how does this statue say anything about sexism in video games? Would they have done better if you had the choice between male and female?
i am open mouthed amazed. seriously.
it's a butchered female torso that still has perfect breasts. do you seriously not see the problem here.
No but you see if it was a butchered male torso with perfect abs nobody would care!
This is somehow relevant in a discussion that is about a sexualized butchered female torso.
So it's the boobs that are the problem here? If they were gnawed off it would still be creepy but not sexist?
In short, yes. This thing you are looking at? It is meant to titillate, that is their objective here. Think about what that says about both us and them.
an irrational reaction is saying the whole game industry is filled with misogynist assholes and we need to burn the lot of them at the stake or whatever.
Who is saying this, exactly?
Nobody at all. It's not an accusation, just an illustration.
So you were making it up.
There's a lot of attitude here that amounts to "I hope the company fails and dies for being stupid",
Pretty sure no one said that either.
Moderation of reaction is all I'm saying, at least in reference to making sure we react to the right individuals and not condemn a bunch of people uninvolved with this mess.
The only reaction so far is "I'm not buying that game". That's a completely appropriate reaction. So you just seem to be making shit up.
I could scroll through and find imminently recent posts where people are talking about chucking the whole company out the window because they're so infuriated by this event plus the bit where I explicitly stated "illustration, not accusation", so I really don't feel the need to belabor the point if somebody just doesn't want to acknowledge the value of reigning things in a bit. You are totally free to feel personally offended if you want, but keep in mind that you would be taking a general suggestion completely out of context and wonderfully illustrating the exact point I was making about why being rational about this instead of flying off the handle about anything related to it is counterproductive.
Something that would be beneficial here is if anybody had the means to more specifically determine the folks directly responsible for this, so we could perhaps contact the company and say "hey, the attitudes of these people are totally unacceptable and they're costing you money". I could understand if that would seem too horribly rational, though, and if I should just be hating on the entire company instead of thinking of way to actually accomplish something through this.
Hooray, I'm insulted and infracted for asking questions! Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Come on guys, if you're going to have a super mod calling people idiots for asking questions and then infract them for defending themselves... oh fuck it, who cares?
If you dont find this immediately offensive, you might want to go get your head checked out
I'm an American. I play violent video games, watch violent movies (made in a variety of countries) and I enjoy violent sports. I'm not an insane person for not being offended by this.
No, you're just the end result we're all trying to stop. Someone who doesn't see the issue and refuses to see it no matter how much proof is put in front of him.
That is going a bit far, isn't it? Fawst is not the personification of evil and sexism, he is just an opinionated guy who is not used to the forum.
NO ONE has said that.
Seriously, people, quit with the strawmen. It's gettin' real stupid.
That was kind of my point. I felt you were beginning to make a strawman of Fawst, which is never helpful for discussion.
It does not matter much, this thread has become so toxic I doubt I will return to it. I liked the first Dead Island though, so I hope this PR move is not representative of its overall quality.
It's the sexualization of a horribly dismembered female torso, yes
It's the fact that this is a statue of a woman, completely and bloodily torn down until all that remained of her were her perfect breasts, somehow unscathed.
If you cannot see the objectification is this, I really do not know what else to say.
So it's the boobs that are the problem here? If they were gnawed off it would still be creepy but not sexist?
Actually? Yes. And it's not that it's boobs, it's PERFECT BREASTS on a mutilated torso.
Imagine if this statue instead was of a man's severed pelvis, bloody, with a throbbing, engorged cock, 10" easy, bulging from the scraps of ripped speedo, desperately struggling to restrain it.
I'm an American. I play violent video games, watch violent movies (made in a variety of countries) and I enjoy violent sports. I'm not an insane person for not being offended by this.
Let me try to help you understand one of the angles on this.
Video games have been fighting a big PR battle for the last, 10, 20 years. And it is a steep uphill battle. It's a mix of fighting the perception that people who play video games are lazy fucks, and video games are violent and are the cause of society's ills. This CE statue thing? This does not help the latter by a long shot. That is just one part why a lot of us are going, "FUCK!"
The rest I'm going to leave up to you.
I don't get it. You're talking about PR about sexism in video games (which does exist) but how does this statue say anything about sexism in video games? Would they have done better if you had the choice between male and female?
i am open mouthed amazed. seriously.
it's a butchered female torso that still has perfect breasts. do you seriously not see the problem here.
In my only defense of this statue... they could be implants and supported by the bikini?
This was still a terrible idea that somebody should have checked outside of their circle about before going forward with production. It's not even a matter of political correctness or whatever because even as a male zombie victim bust it would have been on the tasteless/empty-shock side.
edit: I LIKE PUNCTUATIONS.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
So it's the boobs that are the problem here? If they were gnawed off it would still be creepy but not sexist?
Actually? Yes. And it's not that it's boobs, it's PERFECT BREASTS on a mutilated torso.
Imagine if this statue instead was of a man's severed pelvis, bloody, with a throbbing, engorged cock, 10" easy, bulging from the scraps of ripped speedo, desperately struggling to restrain it.
I would think the same thing I do now: What the fuck is that? Why would I want that? And then move on with my life.
Hooray, I'm insulted and infracted for asking questions! Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Come on guys, if you're going to have a super mod calling people idiots for asking questions and then infract them for defending themselves... oh fuck it, who cares?
If you dont find this immediately offensive, you might want to go get your head checked out
I'm an American. I play violent video games, watch violent movies (made in a variety of countries) and I enjoy violent sports. I'm not an insane person for not being offended by this.
No, you're just the end result we're all trying to stop. Someone who doesn't see the issue and refuses to see it no matter how much proof is put in front of him.
That is going a bit far, isn't it? Fawst is not the personification of evil and sexism, he is just an opinionated guy who is not used to the forum.
NO ONE has said that.
Seriously, people, quit with the strawmen. It's gettin' real stupid.
That was kind of my point. I felt you were beginning to make a strawman of Fawst, which is never helpful for discussion.
It does not matter much, this thread has become so toxic I doubt I will return to it. I liked the first Dead Island though, so I hope this PR move is not representative of its overall quality.
i'm pretty sure you don;t know what strawman means then. it's not a person, it's making an argument based on something that was not said. which you did.
So it's the boobs that are the problem here? If they were gnawed off it would still be creepy but not sexist?
Actually? Yes. And it's not that it's boobs, it's PERFECT BREASTS on a mutilated torso.
Imagine if this statue instead was of a man's severed pelvis, bloody, with a throbbing, engorged cock, 10" easy, bulging from the scraps of ripped speedo, desperately struggling to restrain it.
I would think the same thing I do now: What the fuck is that? Why would I want that? And then move on with my life.
But would it spawn a 99 page forum thread about how it is sexist and abhorrent?
So it's the boobs that are the problem here? If they were gnawed off it would still be creepy but not sexist?
I don't think so. I think it would still be in bad taste. I'm trying to imagine it being more horribly mangled but I still don't see the point of it or why someone would want it along with their game.
I mean I'm talking even if we go so far as to have it be mostly ribcage/entrails and whatever, where you couldn't even tell if it was male/female. It still would be stupid and pointless. Maybe less sexualized, but still a horrible idea.
I'm really not seeing how they thought this would be a positive marketing strategy.
That being said, this part of their advertising doesn't really influence my will to buy or not buy this game. I think it is incredibly stupid, and that they should really look at their Marketing division for some new job openings, but only the gameplay trailers or vids would really influence whether or not I get it.
Which is interesting because I guess if the game looked good and I picked it up I would be technically supporting this advertising with my wallet.
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Actually? Yes. And it's not that it's boobs, it's PERFECT BREASTS on a mutilated torso.
Imagine if this statue instead was of a man's severed pelvis, bloody, with a throbbing, engorged cock, 10" easy, bulging from the scraps of ripped speedo, desperately struggling to restrain it.
More to the point, think about how that would never happen.
Hooray, I'm insulted and infracted for asking questions! Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Come on guys, if you're going to have a super mod calling people idiots for asking questions and then infract them for defending themselves... oh fuck it, who cares?
I say this for your own good - sometimes you just have to know when to keep your mouth shut, dude. Not about your opinions, but clearly when someone in authority over you is watching what you say and going through measures to punish you for saying it, you should probably think twice about continuing to post it.
I did think twice before I posted that, actually. I know what you're saying and I'll accept whatever I get for it, but sometimes you just have to stand up for yourself, consequences be damned.
Are people personally offended by this or are they saying it's stupid because they know that the hive mind will deem it so?
You're an idiot.
Because I ask questions? Guess you've got a lot of idiots on this board, yourself included.
You seriously see nothing wrong with the mutilated torso of a woman in skimpy clothing being a thing you can buy?
I see what's wrong with the nature of it. I see why others (and myself) wouldn't want to own it. But I'm not angry about it. That's the difference. A lot of people here are ready to punch someone in the face over it.
Man.
What exactly is your argument here? Like what is your contribution to all this besides being the guy who says "well I don't care guys"?
Like staying away from terms like anger or offense, what do you think about it? Do you at least see how it's not okay, regardless of whether it actually upsets you?
You want me to not use the words that are integral to my argument? I think you're the one who doesn't get it, but let me try:
The anger/offense reaction of some people (not all) is OFF THE CHART. I think they are OVERREACTING. Do I think they have a right to their opinion? Of course I do, I'm not that much of a douchebag. My contribution was actually supposed to be starting a discussion about why it is that people are so angry/offended reacting the way they are but (what a shocker) people got angry about that. Guess I failed your challenge.
Let me put this another way: we are talking about a level of outrage over a statue, a lame item that people get as a pack-in with a game in which you, while in control of the character, physically mutilate the reanimated corpses of the dead. Yet no one seems to care about that part of it.
Am I making sense yet? People are up in arms over this perceived misogyny when it comes to a statue, but when it comes to a video game, no one bats an eye. I think the word I'm looking for to describe this is "hypocrisy."
Am I making sense yet? People are up in arms over this perceived misogyny when it comes to a statue, but when it comes to a video game, no one bats an eye. I think the word I'm looking for to describe this is "hypocrisy."
So it's the boobs that are the problem here? If they were gnawed off it would still be creepy but not sexist?
Actually? Yes. And it's not that it's boobs, it's PERFECT BREASTS on a mutilated torso.
Imagine if this statue instead was of a man's severed pelvis, bloody, with a throbbing, engorged cock, 10" easy, bulging from the scraps of ripped speedo, desperately struggling to restrain it.
I would think the same thing I do now: What the fuck is that? Why would I want that? And then move on with my life.
El SkidThe frozen white northRegistered Userregular
For me, The most obvious problem about the statue is... context.
If you know 100% of the context behind the thing (it came with a zombie video game, that girl is totally a zombie and/or someone eaten by a zombie etc), it's still in pretty poor taste outside of a Halloween party.
If you don't know the context behind the statue, it looks like you're some sort of serial killer wannabe, and if your mother ever came over you'd have to spend 15 minutes explaining why you would choose to own the statue much less display it, and how despite the appearances she wasn't right trying to ban you from playing Dungeons and Dragons when you were little.
Then there's the whole thing about how the video game industry in general and this shop in particular are trying to fight off the image of being a bunch of sexist children with really violent tendencies... and this just isn't helpful to the big picture. With the recent events in the states and people having incorrect ideas about video games being the cause of Bad Things happening, being able to point at crap like this to "prove" how violent and childish the video game industry is becoming is not welcome.
So agreed, this is pretty terrible. As someone who enjoys playing devils advocate and will often try to take "the other side" in an argument, I can only say that I have no inclination to do so in this case. I honestly hope that the decision to do this is a net negative to their revenue (maybe there is negative publicity after all?), and that in future people will think before they make "bold" advertising decisions like this one.
Am I making sense yet? People are up in arms over this perceived misogyny when it comes to a statue, but when it comes to a video game, no one bats an eye. I think the word I'm looking for to describe this is "hypocrisy."
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.
Well if people (read: society) can modify the English language and make words mean far more than their original intent (referencing "misogyny" here), then I think I'm OK.
Hooray, I'm insulted and infracted for asking questions! Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Come on guys, if you're going to have a super mod calling people idiots for asking questions and then infract them for defending themselves... oh fuck it, who cares?
I say this for your own good - sometimes you just have to know when to keep your mouth shut, dude. Not about your opinions, but clearly when someone in authority over you is watching what you say and going through measures to punish you for saying it, you should probably think twice about continuing to post it.
I did think twice before I posted that, actually. I know what you're saying and I'll accept whatever I get for it, but sometimes you just have to stand up for yourself, consequences be damned.
Are people personally offended by this or are they saying it's stupid because they know that the hive mind will deem it so?
You're an idiot.
Because I ask questions? Guess you've got a lot of idiots on this board, yourself included.
You seriously see nothing wrong with the mutilated torso of a woman in skimpy clothing being a thing you can buy?
I see what's wrong with the nature of it. I see why others (and myself) wouldn't want to own it. But I'm not angry about it. That's the difference. A lot of people here are ready to punch someone in the face over it.
Man.
What exactly is your argument here? Like what is your contribution to all this besides being the guy who says "well I don't care guys"?
Like staying away from terms like anger or offense, what do you think about it? Do you at least see how it's not okay, regardless of whether it actually upsets you?
You want me to not use the words that are integral to my argument? I think you're the one who doesn't get it, but let me try:
The anger/offense reaction of some people (not all) is OFF THE CHART. I think they are OVERREACTING. Do I think they have a right to their opinion? Of course I do, I'm not that much of a douchebag. My contribution was actually supposed to be starting a discussion about why it is that people are so angry/offended reacting the way they are but (what a shocker) people got angry about that. Guess I failed your challenge.
Let me put this another way: we are talking about a level of outrage over a statue, a lame item that people get as a pack-in with a game in which you, while in control of the character, physically mutilate the reanimated corpses of the dead. Yet no one seems to care about that part of it.
Am I making sense yet? People are up in arms over this perceived misogyny when it comes to a statue, but when it comes to a video game, no one bats an eye. I think the word I'm looking for to describe this is "hypocrisy."
No one here cares about that because violence in video games is an entirely separate discussion, one that has been discussed to death over the last 20 years or so. It's a false comparison.
Also, you know that people can still read the words you strike out, right? Of course you do.
Am I making sense yet? People are up in arms over this perceived misogyny when it comes to a statue, but when it comes to a video game, no one bats an eye. I think the word I'm looking for to describe this is "hypocrisy."
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.
Well if people (read: society) can modify the English language and make words mean far more than their original intent (referencing "misogyny" here), then I think I'm OK.
So it's the boobs that are the problem here? If they were gnawed off it would still be creepy but not sexist?
Actually? Yes. And it's not that it's boobs, it's PERFECT BREASTS on a mutilated torso.
Imagine if this statue instead was of a man's severed pelvis, bloody, with a throbbing, engorged cock, 10" easy, bulging from the scraps of ripped speedo, desperately struggling to restrain it.
I would think the same thing I do now: What the fuck is that? Why would I want that? And then move on with my life.
The unexamined life, we have found it.
No I see what you guys are trying to see. I get it. I just think you're trying to make it something worse than it really is: a fucking ugly statue.
Hooray, I'm insulted and infracted for asking questions! Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Come on guys, if you're going to have a super mod calling people idiots for asking questions and then infract them for defending themselves... oh fuck it, who cares?
I say this for your own good - sometimes you just have to know when to keep your mouth shut, dude. Not about your opinions, but clearly when someone in authority over you is watching what you say and going through measures to punish you for saying it, you should probably think twice about continuing to post it.
I did think twice before I posted that, actually. I know what you're saying and I'll accept whatever I get for it, but sometimes you just have to stand up for yourself, consequences be damned.
Are people personally offended by this or are they saying it's stupid because they know that the hive mind will deem it so?
You're an idiot.
Because I ask questions? Guess you've got a lot of idiots on this board, yourself included.
You seriously see nothing wrong with the mutilated torso of a woman in skimpy clothing being a thing you can buy?
I see what's wrong with the nature of it. I see why others (and myself) wouldn't want to own it. But I'm not angry about it. That's the difference. A lot of people here are ready to punch someone in the face over it.
Man.
What exactly is your argument here? Like what is your contribution to all this besides being the guy who says "well I don't care guys"?
Like staying away from terms like anger or offense, what do you think about it? Do you at least see how it's not okay, regardless of whether it actually upsets you?
You want me to not use the words that are integral to my argument? I think you're the one who doesn't get it, but let me try:
The anger/offense reaction of some people (not all) is OFF THE CHART. I think they are OVERREACTING. Do I think they have a right to their opinion? Of course I do, I'm not that much of a douchebag. My contribution was actually supposed to be starting a discussion about why it is that people are so angry/offended reacting the way they are but (what a shocker) people got angry about that. Guess I failed your challenge.
Let me put this another way: we are talking about a level of outrage over a statue, a lame item that people get as a pack-in with a game in which you, while in control of the character, physically mutilate the reanimated corpses of the dead. Yet no one seems to care about that part of it.
Am I making sense yet? People are up in arms over this perceived misogyny when it comes to a statue, but when it comes to a video game, no one bats an eye. I think the word I'm looking for to describe this is "hypocrisy."
Man you're coming off a whole lot more angry than most people here.
Maybe you're reading too much into people's reactions. Their blood isn't literally boiling, and nobody is planning on storming the company that produced this thing. People are expressing how dumb and sexist they think this is. That's all! Since you care so deeply about how angry people are, rather than the arguments they are making; I'm sitting here drinking a delightful cup of tea. I'm against this whole thing on an intellectual level. It makes me roll my eyes and go "ughhh", yes, but that's about it. Nobody here is ready to punch anything. Take your own advice and calm down.
And yes! People here care lots about the portrayal of women in video games in general! That's why this is such a hot topic; this incident is set within the context of the treatment of women in videogames in general. There was a huge thread about it here not long ago.
You're not arguing against anything then? You're just saying that people shouldn't act so angry, since you perceive them to be angry somehow.
And you think that we should not talk about the subject matter of the thread, which is this statue, because there are other fights we could be picking instead?
So it's the boobs that are the problem here? If they were gnawed off it would still be creepy but not sexist?
Actually? Yes. And it's not that it's boobs, it's PERFECT BREASTS on a mutilated torso.
Imagine if this statue instead was of a man's severed pelvis, bloody, with a throbbing, engorged cock, 10" easy, bulging from the scraps of ripped speedo, desperately struggling to restrain it.
I would think the same thing I do now: What the fuck is that? Why would I want that? And then move on with my life.
The unexamined life, we have found it.
No I see what you guys are trying to see. I get it. I just think you're trying to make it something worse than it really is: a fucking ugly statue.
Uh.. we aren't TRYING to see it as mysoginistic. It is mysoginistic. You can disagree with that all you like but you will be wrong.
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For me, The most obvious problem about the statue is... context.
If you know 100% of the context behind the thing (it came with a zombie video game, that girl is totally a zombie and/or someone eaten by a zombie etc), it's still in pretty poor taste outside of a Halloween party.
If you don't know the context behind the statue, it looks like you're some sort of serial killer wannabe, and if your mother ever came over you'd have to spend 15 minutes explaining why you would choose to own the statue much less display it, and how despite the appearances she wasn't right trying to ban you from playing Dungeons and Dragons when you were little.
Then there's the whole thing about how the video game industry in general and this shop in particular are trying to fight off the image of being a bunch of sexist children with really violent tendencies... and this just isn't helpful to the big picture. With the recent events in the states and people having incorrect ideas about video games being the cause of Bad Things happening, being able to point at crap like this to "prove" how violent and childish the video game industry is becoming is not welcome.
So agreed, this is pretty terrible. As someone who enjoys playing devils advocate and will often try to take "the other side" in an argument, I can only say that I have no inclination to do so in this case. I honestly hope that the decision to do this is a net negative to their revenue (maybe there is negative publicity after all?), and that in future people will think before they make "bold" advertising decisions like this one.
Yeah, I genuinely considered myself why the statue is so offensive while nobody is batting an eye about the game and its violence, but context is definitely the key here. It's a zombie game at a beach resort; bikini zombies are to be expected. The statue, on the other hand, is basically a bloody, mutilated sexual icon, detached from the game; having one on display would imply some extremely disturbing tendencies regarding an association between sexuality, death, and objectification. Detached body parts as game "mementos" would be creepy enough, but the sexual angle pushes the whole thing into a reeeeaaally disturbing area.
The statue is offensive to me just as a person, but the fact that it's in association with the game industry, which already has image problems thanks to sensationalism and stupid people, makes it doubly so.
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What does "stop and think first" even mean here? What do you propose?
I feel like all that is being done here is people stating how this was a terrible decision. And yeah, we're directing that against the company, because the company is responsible for that product? I don't really see what your issue with this is?
I don't get it. You're talking about PR about sexism in video games (which does exist) but how does this statue say anything about sexism in video games? Would they have done better if you had the choice between male and female?
NO ONE has said that.
Seriously, people, quit with the strawmen. It's gettin' real stupid.
That is an excellent explanation and is literally the first and only instance of that angle I've seen in this thread. I'm with you on that one, it's another one of those cases where you can't help but feel like the industry actually wants the spotlight on itself for the wrong reasons.
We have plenty of reason to believe that there is a culture of sexism at this point. Even if it's not all of them, what precisely would you propose if not denying them money for their product? Wagging your finger at them and wearing a stern expression? Yes because that's worked out so well on businesses in the past.
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i am open mouthed amazed. seriously.
it's a butchered female torso that still has perfect breasts. do you seriously not see the problem here.
Well, the real crime here is that this thing doesn't have anything to do with zombies. It's just a mutilated woman's torso. Not really bitten and eaten, but surgically mutilated.
If it was the bikini-clad top of a woman, with a head and hands, that also depicted a zombie biting into her, you'd be like "yeah okay, that's sexist and dumb but I see where they're going with it". But as it is, it's a mutilated torso that doesn't have anything to do with anything. Instead of thinking that it's really neat in a completely juvenile and dumb way, you just think "oh god, that's horrifying. The surgical clean limb removal, the big siliconoid spheres... the Union Jack? What monster designed this thing?"
It's objectification in pretty much the most literal sense of the term, yet.
Well I can sort of understand the thought behind that.
No but you see if it was a butchered male torso with perfect abs nobody would care!
This is somehow relevant in a discussion that is about a sexualized butchered female torso.
In short, yes. This thing you are looking at? It is meant to titillate, that is their objective here. Think about what that says about both us and them.
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I could scroll through and find imminently recent posts where people are talking about chucking the whole company out the window because they're so infuriated by this event plus the bit where I explicitly stated "illustration, not accusation", so I really don't feel the need to belabor the point if somebody just doesn't want to acknowledge the value of reigning things in a bit. You are totally free to feel personally offended if you want, but keep in mind that you would be taking a general suggestion completely out of context and wonderfully illustrating the exact point I was making about why being rational about this instead of flying off the handle about anything related to it is counterproductive.
Something that would be beneficial here is if anybody had the means to more specifically determine the folks directly responsible for this, so we could perhaps contact the company and say "hey, the attitudes of these people are totally unacceptable and they're costing you money". I could understand if that would seem too horribly rational, though, and if I should just be hating on the entire company instead of thinking of way to actually accomplish something through this.
That was kind of my point. I felt you were beginning to make a strawman of Fawst, which is never helpful for discussion.
It does not matter much, this thread has become so toxic I doubt I will return to it. I liked the first Dead Island though, so I hope this PR move is not representative of its overall quality.
It's the sexualization of a horribly dismembered female torso, yes
It's the fact that this is a statue of a woman, completely and bloodily torn down until all that remained of her were her perfect breasts, somehow unscathed.
If you cannot see the objectification is this, I really do not know what else to say.
Actually? Yes. And it's not that it's boobs, it's PERFECT BREASTS on a mutilated torso.
Imagine if this statue instead was of a man's severed pelvis, bloody, with a throbbing, engorged cock, 10" easy, bulging from the scraps of ripped speedo, desperately struggling to restrain it.
Yea, you'd have to be a huge zombie fan to want something like that. Possibly bordering into fetish level interest.
In my only defense of this statue... they could be implants and supported by the bikini?
This was still a terrible idea that somebody should have checked outside of their circle about before going forward with production. It's not even a matter of political correctness or whatever because even as a male zombie victim bust it would have been on the tasteless/empty-shock side.
edit: I LIKE PUNCTUATIONS.
I would think the same thing I do now: What the fuck is that? Why would I want that? And then move on with my life.
i'm pretty sure you don;t know what strawman means then. it's not a person, it's making an argument based on something that was not said. which you did.
But would it spawn a 99 page forum thread about how it is sexist and abhorrent?
I don't think so. I think it would still be in bad taste. I'm trying to imagine it being more horribly mangled but I still don't see the point of it or why someone would want it along with their game.
I mean I'm talking even if we go so far as to have it be mostly ribcage/entrails and whatever, where you couldn't even tell if it was male/female. It still would be stupid and pointless. Maybe less sexualized, but still a horrible idea.
I'm really not seeing how they thought this would be a positive marketing strategy.
That being said, this part of their advertising doesn't really influence my will to buy or not buy this game. I think it is incredibly stupid, and that they should really look at their Marketing division for some new job openings, but only the gameplay trailers or vids would really influence whether or not I get it.
Which is interesting because I guess if the game looked good and I picked it up I would be technically supporting this advertising with my wallet.
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More to the point, think about how that would never happen.
I did think twice before I posted that, actually. I know what you're saying and I'll accept whatever I get for it, but sometimes you just have to stand up for yourself, consequences be damned.
You want me to not use the words that are integral to my argument? I think you're the one who doesn't get it, but let me try:
The anger/offense reaction of some people (not all) is OFF THE CHART. I think they are OVERREACTING. Do I think they have a right to their opinion? Of course I do, I'm not that much of a douchebag. My contribution was actually supposed to be starting a discussion about why it is that people are so angry/offended reacting the way they are but (what a shocker) people got angry about that. Guess I failed your challenge.
Let me put this another way: we are talking about a level of outrage over a statue, a lame item that people get as a pack-in with a game in which you, while in control of the character, physically mutilate the reanimated corpses of the dead. Yet no one seems to care about that part of it.
Am I making sense yet? People are up in arms over this perceived misogyny when it comes to a statue, but when it comes to a video game, no one bats an eye. I think the word I'm looking for to describe this is "hypocrisy."
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.
The unexamined life, we have found it.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
It's basically just another version of having a swimsuit Calender or a poster of a model on your wall or whatever.
But this?
Yeah this is going way too fucking far.
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If you know 100% of the context behind the thing (it came with a zombie video game, that girl is totally a zombie and/or someone eaten by a zombie etc), it's still in pretty poor taste outside of a Halloween party.
If you don't know the context behind the statue, it looks like you're some sort of serial killer wannabe, and if your mother ever came over you'd have to spend 15 minutes explaining why you would choose to own the statue much less display it, and how despite the appearances she wasn't right trying to ban you from playing Dungeons and Dragons when you were little.
Then there's the whole thing about how the video game industry in general and this shop in particular are trying to fight off the image of being a bunch of sexist children with really violent tendencies... and this just isn't helpful to the big picture. With the recent events in the states and people having incorrect ideas about video games being the cause of Bad Things happening, being able to point at crap like this to "prove" how violent and childish the video game industry is becoming is not welcome.
So agreed, this is pretty terrible. As someone who enjoys playing devils advocate and will often try to take "the other side" in an argument, I can only say that I have no inclination to do so in this case. I honestly hope that the decision to do this is a net negative to their revenue (maybe there is negative publicity after all?), and that in future people will think before they make "bold" advertising decisions like this one.
Well if people (read: society) can modify the English language and make words mean far more than their original intent (referencing "misogyny" here), then I think I'm OK.
No one here cares about that because violence in video games is an entirely separate discussion, one that has been discussed to death over the last 20 years or so. It's a false comparison.
Also, you know that people can still read the words you strike out, right? Of course you do.
Oh dear.
No I see what you guys are trying to see. I get it. I just think you're trying to make it something worse than it really is: a fucking ugly statue.
Man you're coming off a whole lot more angry than most people here.
Maybe you're reading too much into people's reactions. Their blood isn't literally boiling, and nobody is planning on storming the company that produced this thing. People are expressing how dumb and sexist they think this is. That's all! Since you care so deeply about how angry people are, rather than the arguments they are making; I'm sitting here drinking a delightful cup of tea. I'm against this whole thing on an intellectual level. It makes me roll my eyes and go "ughhh", yes, but that's about it. Nobody here is ready to punch anything. Take your own advice and calm down.
And yes! People here care lots about the portrayal of women in video games in general! That's why this is such a hot topic; this incident is set within the context of the treatment of women in videogames in general. There was a huge thread about it here not long ago.
You're not arguing against anything then? You're just saying that people shouldn't act so angry, since you perceive them to be angry somehow.
And you think that we should not talk about the subject matter of the thread, which is this statue, because there are other fights we could be picking instead?
Alright then.
You sir, are seeing it as something better than it really is.
Uh.. we aren't TRYING to see it as mysoginistic. It is mysoginistic. You can disagree with that all you like but you will be wrong.
The statue is offensive to me just as a person, but the fact that it's in association with the game industry, which already has image problems thanks to sensationalism and stupid people, makes it doubly so.