Some of the things they put into this game are really brutal to watch.
Bioshock 1 and 2 was pretty much: Crazy asshole capitalists under the sea in 1950 and what results when science and decadence runs rampant without any concern for morality or control. Which is fine, but kind of hard to imagine and easily within the realm of fiction. Very rarely in BS1&2 did you encounter genuine human beings who weren't insane, greedy, or morally corrupt.
Where as Bioshock Infinite is: Nationalists and religious zealots in the sky in 1910, who brought a lot of honest people with them to support their sanctimonious way of life. In this game, you meet a lot of innocent people who are just trying to get by and be a part of society. Its gut-wrenching to me seeing the racism, discrimination, hatred, desperation... and just people clawing and climbing over each other just to feed their families and survive... and the people at the top taking advantage of that. Knowing that this was honestly what our society was like and how terrible the great depression was hits home with me.
The scene in Finkton...
where they were auctioning off jobs to the lowest bidder
kind of made my stomach churn.
I totally agree. I'm suprised they weren't eating each other. I hope lots of people who play this see what "the good old days" entails.
The problem is that most of the people that play this will be younger, already progressive leaning, and will be the choir preached to. The people who actually think the good ole days were good are not playing BioShock. Even if they did, they would dismiss it as the game taking liberties, rather than a pretty accurate depiction of the turn of the century.
Twitter is already full of people using the words "exaggeration", "caricature", "can't take it seriously, it's too unbelievable".
I imagine those people don't pay attention to current events.
Or History class. It's not so much the flying city and shantytown but the way the racists are.
The vile way Comstock and Fink will sit there and rationalize their bigotry both makes my skin crawl and reminds me of what I learned in high school and college.
I mean, you want to talk about the employment line, I lost my job a year ago when the company decided that they would just hire 10 Indians for the same cost as one American. Lowest bidder, indeed.
I actually thought the Fink thing was fairly accurate, if a bit exaggerated with the Fink statue and the steampunk/sci-fi stuff and whatnot. That was a really crappy time for workers, especially minorities.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
So how do I equip gear on PC?
I swear it said gameplay menu. I checked options and it is certainly not there.
PSN: Honkalot
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited March 2013
Oh wow. A friendly Vox Populi just ran right in front of my sniper scope at the perfect moment while I was aiming and got his head blown off. Pretty hilarious.
That might have been the stupidest thing I've ever seen an NPC do in awhile.
The game better not try to use this against me later on.
I swear it said gameplay menu. I checked options and it is certainly not there.
There's another menu separate from the pause menu that lets you check your upgrades and equip gear. I had the same issue at first. On the xbox it's the back button, on PC I guess just mash your keyboard until you find it?
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
I swear it said gameplay menu. I checked options and it is certainly not there.
There's another menu separate from the pause menu that lets you check your upgrades and equip gear. I had the same issue at first. On the xbox it's the back button, on PC I guess just mash your keyboard until you find it?
I swear it said gameplay menu. I checked options and it is certainly not there.
There's another menu separate from the pause menu that lets you check your upgrades and equip gear. I had the same issue at first. On the xbox it's the back button, on PC I guess just mash your keyboard until you find it?
Man, I was thinking back on the game and probably my favorite part of it was:
The twins discussing how woefully inadequate the language for discussing tense is when trying to talk about things happening in a multiverse.
It just embodied the story so much for me.
re: beginning of game but with the ending in mind:
what is the significance of the start conversation the Luteces have when they argue about Booker rowing?
MLutece: He doesn't row.
FLutece: He doesn't ROW?
Mlutece: No, he DOESN'T row.
FLutece: Ah, I see what you mean.
also, they have plenty of foreshadowing dialogue if you just wait on the boat
I think it just has to do with the Luteces having done this before. The event they're currently experiencing is something they've already experienced. By saying 'He doesn't row' they're saying, he didn't row last time so he's not rowing this time.
Then again, I could be wrong.
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
It's kind of funny how Booker is willing to fight giant mechanical men built like tanks, robots with gatling guns and take on an entire city full of police, soldiers and racists with super powers but he's afraid of a bunch of gangster debt collectors.
Man, I was thinking back on the game and probably my favorite part of it was:
The twins discussing how woefully inadequate the language for discussing tense is when trying to talk about things happening in a multiverse.
It just embodied the story so much for me.
re: beginning of game but with the ending in mind:
what is the significance of the start conversation the Luteces have when they argue about Booker rowing?
MLutece: He doesn't row.
FLutece: He doesn't ROW?
Mlutece: No, he DOESN'T row.
FLutece: Ah, I see what you mean.
also, they have plenty of foreshadowing dialogue if you just wait on the boat
I think it just has to do with the Luteces having done this before. The event they're currently experiencing is something they've already experienced. By saying 'He doesn't row' they're saying, he didn't row last time so he's not rowing this time.
Then again, I could be wrong.
Yeah that's basically it.
This sort of play with tense occurs between the Luteces throughout the game. The emphasis on DOESN'T is Lutece's way of saying "No, I mean I've seen every possible scenario of this situation, and he doesn't row so why ask him to?"
HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Oh and another question, got to one of the first stations to upgrade vigors and they are both like $1400. I have seriously looked through and collected every coin in the game so far and I only have $800. Are you supposed to be backtracking to all of these vendors later or what?
Oh and another question, got to one of the first stations to upgrade vigors and they are both like $1400. I have seriously looked through and collected every coin in the game so far and I only have $800. Are you supposed to be backtracking to all of these vendors later or what?
Upgrades aren't unique to specific vendors, you'll see them again.
You will continue to encounter upgrade vendors as you progress through the game, and they will have an expanding selection of upgrades. Don't worry about backtracking.
So, having had a bit more time to digest the game, I have some questions. Warning, MAJOR spoilers.
1) The Luteces. What was their angle in all of this? I get that initially they were just in it for the science. Yet after Comstock tried to have them killed, they now essentially exist everywhere and nowhere at once, simultaneously. They also can still clearly interact with the physical world. So... why do they care about any of this? They're essentially gods. Was it just petty revenge against Comstock? They certainly seem to still have some sense of scientific curiosity, but at the same time they also seem to have a more specific agenda. I just feel like they were lacking solid motivation, which at times made them feel more like plot devices than characters.
2) I'm less interested in what Songbird was than I am in who Songbird was. He's clearly partly biological, and the Fink voxophone strongly implies a person was used in Songbird's construction. The "Booker is Comstock" ending really blindsided me, because I was expecting Songbird to be the alternate Booker, from the past or another reality, where he was captured and turned into Elizabeth's eternal guardian. I sort of wonder if that true in an early draft, since Elizabeth also kills Songbird by submerging him in water. I'm just a bit let down that Songbird didn't get more development, since he featured so heavily in promotional material. Aside from a couple of brief run-ins, you only get two substantial encounters with him.
3) Just how divergent are Booker and Comstock's timelines? I know Comstock was rendered sterile by the Luteces' machinery, but he's also noticeably older in the game. Did he give up his own daughter, and was then rendered sterile? Or did he never have a daughter at all in this reality?
4) Why, exactly, did Elizabeth never just go through a tear to Paris while she was imprisoned? This is mentioned, briefly, in the game, with her saying something about feeling compelled to return to the only "family" she ever knew. I find this insufficient explanation. It feels too much like the writers just ducking the issue, especially since Elizabeth later compares living in her tower to being like death.
To answer your questions:
1. If you put all of their voxophones in the proper order, you'll find that the Luteces found out about Elizabeth's "rain fire on New York" future. Rosalind initially didn't really care, but Robert demanded that they try to return her to her universe and Rosalind gave in. Presumably Comstock had them "killed" after getting wind of their plan. Apparently killing them only strengthened their resolve. Also, one of Elizabeth's Comstock House voxophones mentions going on to other worlds after blowing up this one, so perhaps Columbia was destined to be some kind of pan-demensional-Sodom-buster and the Luteces decided "fuck that shit."
2. Songbird was basically built out of a hodgepodge of technologies scrabbled together from other worlds, presumable with a person at the core ala the handyman. It's pretty apparent that his role was cut down quite a bit, I guess because it was hard to make him a serious, constant threat without raising the question of why he doesn't just squash Booker.
3. People are still debating when Booker has Anna/Elizabeth. Some people think it has to be before the baptism, because the only way the ending fixes everything is if giving up Anna is what results in the Booker/Comstock split. Other people point out that it's fairly silly that Booker would rename himself after the guy that took his daughter, not recognize Robert Lutece as the fucker who on Comstock's behalf took his daughter, and then send Robert to another universe and....take his daughter. Also, Comstock appears older for the same reason he's impotent and riddled with cancer-the Lutece machines. There's a voxophone at the end that explains this. He is still Booker's age.
4. Elizabeth doesn't have terribly good control over her powers due to the syphon, and even when she goes over to another universe she sort of mucks it up. It's not an exact science, and presumably she's not sure if she can actually get herself to a version of Paris that she wants to be in.
Oh and another question, got to one of the first stations to upgrade vigors and they are both like $1400. I have seriously looked through and collected every coin in the game so far and I only have $800. Are you supposed to be backtracking to all of these vendors later or what?
As people have said upgrades are not vendor specific, but there's also simply not nearly enough money in the game to buy everything. You will need to decide what you want to do and prioritize appropriately.
Do you guys think this will be the last Bioshock that focuses on the main story, rather than a side story like BS2?
I mean now we know that there are shared constants (I take it it's the assumption that Jack is the Rapture version of Booker) but I suppose you could have that same framework but still tell a different story.
Do you guys think this will be the last Bioshock that focuses on the main story, rather than a side story like BS2?
I mean now we know that there are shared constants (I take it it's the assumption that Jack is the Rapture version of Booker) but I suppose you could have that same framework but still tell a different story.
I believe that's the entire point of calling it Bioshock: Infinite.
It's a a reference to how the franchise will go from here. The original Bioshock had the problem that it was a perfectly self contained story that didn't really invite a sequel, which was one of the issues with Bioshock 2. With Bioshock: Infinite they can now tell as many self-contained stories as they'd like, since they can always create a new setting under this framework. There will always be a Lighthouse, a City, a Girl, and a Man, among other constants, but the scenario will change. Future Bioshock games may be set on a city deep in space, or in the center of the earth, or inside a glass bottle on somebody's mantlepiece. Likely there will be different political or philosophical movements that provide a theme to the story, different charismatic yet megalomaniacal leaders of the cities, a different monster that guards the girl, but constants will remain in some form.
It's kind of funny how Booker is willing to fight giant mechanical men built like tanks, robots with gatling guns and take on an entire city full of police, soldiers and racists with super powers but he's afraid of a bunch of gangster debt collectors.
When Don Corleone makes you an offer... you don't refuse, no matter who you have to fight.
So, having had a bit more time to digest the game, I have some questions. Warning, MAJOR spoilers.
1) The Luteces. What was their angle in all of this? I get that initially they were just in it for the science. Yet after Comstock tried to have them killed, they now essentially exist everywhere and nowhere at once, simultaneously. They also can still clearly interact with the physical world. So... why do they care about any of this? They're essentially gods. Was it just petty revenge against Comstock? They certainly seem to still have some sense of scientific curiosity, but at the same time they also seem to have a more specific agenda. I just feel like they were lacking solid motivation, which at times made them feel more like plot devices than characters.
2) I'm less interested in what Songbird was than I am in who Songbird was. He's clearly partly biological, and the Fink voxophone strongly implies a person was used in Songbird's construction. The "Booker is Comstock" ending really blindsided me, because I was expecting Songbird to be the alternate Booker, from the past or another reality, where he was captured and turned into Elizabeth's eternal guardian. I sort of wonder if that true in an early draft, since Elizabeth also kills Songbird by submerging him in water. I'm just a bit let down that Songbird didn't get more development, since he featured so heavily in promotional material. Aside from a couple of brief run-ins, you only get two substantial encounters with him.
3) Just how divergent are Booker and Comstock's timelines? I know Comstock was rendered sterile by the Luteces' machinery, but he's also noticeably older in the game. Did he give up his own daughter, and was then rendered sterile? Or did he never have a daughter at all in this reality?
4) Why, exactly, did Elizabeth never just go through a tear to Paris while she was imprisoned? This is mentioned, briefly, in the game, with her saying something about feeling compelled to return to the only "family" she ever knew. I find this insufficient explanation. It feels too much like the writers just ducking the issue, especially since Elizabeth later compares living in her tower to being like death.
General thoughts:
I really enjoyed the game, but like many triple A games these days, it felt very front-loaded. Up til you meet Daisy Fitzroy, everything is perfect. After that, it's still good, but the Finkton and Vox Populi plots are the weakest part of the game, as has been mentioned elsewhere. There's no need to get the airship back from Daisy when you could always steal another, and there's no need to go to another dimension for Li Chen when Elizabeth can already use tears to supply you with guns, and does so regularly.
What they really needed was a more prolonged middle section where you navigate the city, engaging in exploration and maybe some sidequests, dodging both sides, allowing for incidents like this or this, or even this. Daisy and the Vox Populi should have wanted Elizabeth for themselves, to use her power to give them guns and ships and anything else they might need, while Booker and Elizabeth are just searching for another way off Columbia, probably with another big Songbird encounter (maybe even a boss fight of sorts) mid-game to build up the antagonism. Maybe another Comstock appearance as well; he felt a very distant, uninteresting villain until the big revelation. I would have greatly preferred it if the middle section had also more interactions with the citizens, or lengthier sections where you're not fighting. I was very disappointed, upon reaching the area where the Vox Populi were taking over Founders territory, that they became hostile on sight, and you have almost no chance to wander through the chaos and witness its effect on the citizens, aside from that bit with the boat early on.
However, things pick up rapidly in ending, and the game finishes strongly
To clear up number 4. Her powers were impeded by the siphon that was in the tower. So she could only look through tears, not open them completely.
PSN: ChemENGR
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
Those messages that pop up when you die a lot in quick succession hurt my pride abit, I must admit.
"You can change the difficulty in the options menu. We promise not to tell anyone."
Does anyone know how to get to that piece of clothing behind the gate in the graveyard? I want that damn piece so bad but I can't tear a lock on there or anything.
I was wondering about that one too.
Sorry for the late reply, just getting caught up on the thread.
you have to use Zelda skills 101, light the torches either side of the door
I tried this a billion times, only the right one lit. Left one didn't seem to work, never opened.
Jerkbotsome kind of hypnotistRegistered Userregular
edited March 2013
I think one thing i really liked about the story (and soundtrack in a way i guess)
ENDING
LIKE SERIOUSLY ONLY ONE SPOILER TAG DEEP
is how the 'will the circle be unbroken' motif fit in with the choice/divergence between Booker and Comstock
and with the implied time loop Booker was stuck in
When that song started playing again and you walked forward to fill in the circle of people in the river, i think i gasped out loud at how well everything came together
if i hadn't been spoiled, when Booker says you're going to kill Comstock when he was born and then you step back out into the river, i would have gone insane
where they were auctioning off jobs to the lowest bidder
kind of made my stomach churn.
Was that really
the lowest bidder? I thought they were already employees, and were bidding on how FAST they could do the job. I am almost certain I heard them mention minutes.
So, having had a bit more time to digest the game, I have some questions. Warning, MAJOR spoilers.
1) The Luteces. What was their angle in all of this? I get that initially they were just in it for the science. Yet after Comstock tried to have them killed, they now essentially exist everywhere and nowhere at once, simultaneously. They also can still clearly interact with the physical world. So... why do they care about any of this? They're essentially gods. Was it just petty revenge against Comstock? They certainly seem to still have some sense of scientific curiosity, but at the same time they also seem to have a more specific agenda. I just feel like they were lacking solid motivation, which at times made them feel more like plot devices than characters.
I imagine them somewhat like
the main character of Slaughterhouse V. Everywhere and everywhen, but not necessarily able to change a lot of it, or any of it. Or maybe by the time this happens to them, it's too late to stop it in any of the universes short of preventing it from ever occurring in the first place.
Or just guilt. Or a combination of all of these.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
So, having had a bit more time to digest the game, I have some questions. Warning, MAJOR spoilers.
1) The Luteces. What was their angle in all of this? I get that initially they were just in it for the science. Yet after Comstock tried to have them killed, they now essentially exist everywhere and nowhere at once, simultaneously. They also can still clearly interact with the physical world. So... why do they care about any of this? They're essentially gods. Was it just petty revenge against Comstock? They certainly seem to still have some sense of scientific curiosity, but at the same time they also seem to have a more specific agenda. I just feel like they were lacking solid motivation, which at times made them feel more like plot devices than characters.
2) I'm less interested in what Songbird was than I am in who Songbird was. He's clearly partly biological, and the Fink voxophone strongly implies a person was used in Songbird's construction. The "Booker is Comstock" ending really blindsided me, because I was expecting Songbird to be the alternate Booker, from the past or another reality, where he was captured and turned into Elizabeth's eternal guardian. I sort of wonder if that true in an early draft, since Elizabeth also kills Songbird by submerging him in water. I'm just a bit let down that Songbird didn't get more development, since he featured so heavily in promotional material. Aside from a couple of brief run-ins, you only get two substantial encounters with him.
3) Just how divergent are Booker and Comstock's timelines? I know Comstock was rendered sterile by the Luteces' machinery, but he's also noticeably older in the game. Did he give up his own daughter, and was then rendered sterile? Or did he never have a daughter at all in this reality?
4) Why, exactly, did Elizabeth never just go through a tear to Paris while she was imprisoned? This is mentioned, briefly, in the game, with her saying something about feeling compelled to return to the only "family" she ever knew. I find this insufficient explanation. It feels too much like the writers just ducking the issue, especially since Elizabeth later compares living in her tower to being like death.
General thoughts:
I really enjoyed the game, but like many triple A games these days, it felt very front-loaded. Up til you meet Daisy Fitzroy, everything is perfect. After that, it's still good, but the Finkton and Vox Populi plots are the weakest part of the game, as has been mentioned elsewhere. There's no need to get the airship back from Daisy when you could always steal another, and there's no need to go to another dimension for Li Chen when Elizabeth can already use tears to supply you with guns, and does so regularly.
What they really needed was a more prolonged middle section where you navigate the city, engaging in exploration and maybe some sidequests, dodging both sides, allowing for incidents like this or this, or even this. Daisy and the Vox Populi should have wanted Elizabeth for themselves, to use her power to give them guns and ships and anything else they might need, while Booker and Elizabeth are just searching for another way off Columbia, probably with another big Songbird encounter (maybe even a boss fight of sorts) mid-game to build up the antagonism. Maybe another Comstock appearance as well; he felt a very distant, uninteresting villain until the big revelation. I would have greatly preferred it if the middle section had also more interactions with the citizens, or lengthier sections where you're not fighting. I was very disappointed, upon reaching the area where the Vox Populi were taking over Founders territory, that they became hostile on sight, and you have almost no chance to wander through the chaos and witness its effect on the citizens, aside from that bit with the boat early on.
However, things pick up rapidly in ending, and the game finishes strongly
To clear up number 4. Her powers were impeded by the siphon that was in the tower. So she could only look through tears, not open them completely.
See, I'm not sure the game ever said that. Or, rather,
it's never entirely clear if the siphon is affecting her the whole time, or if it's slowly diminishing in effect and she is gaining more control of her powers. Her powers never really seem to change that much, though, until after she is recaptured and experimented on. They only finally reach their full potential when the siphon is destroyed, which suggests it was inhibiting her all along. Considering she opened a tear and took you from on reality to another two times in Finkton, that would seem to suggest she could open tears whenever.
Also, here's a thought for everybody who has played to the end:
Booker/Comstock was not a rich man. Which means he probably didn't really finance the original Lutece. Which means he/she probably invented their machines in one or more realities, no matter what.
So, having had a bit more time to digest the game, I have some questions. Warning, MAJOR spoilers.
1) The Luteces. What was their angle in all of this? I get that initially they were just in it for the science. Yet after Comstock tried to have them killed, they now essentially exist everywhere and nowhere at once, simultaneously. They also can still clearly interact with the physical world. So... why do they care about any of this? They're essentially gods. Was it just petty revenge against Comstock? They certainly seem to still have some sense of scientific curiosity, but at the same time they also seem to have a more specific agenda. I just feel like they were lacking solid motivation, which at times made them feel more like plot devices than characters.
I imagine them somewhat like
the main character of Slaughterhouse V. Everywhere and everywhen, but not necessarily able to change a lot of it, or any of it. Or maybe by the time this happens to them, it's too late to stop it in any of the universes short of preventing it from ever occurring in the first place.
Or just guilt. Or a combination of all of these.
Is it weird that I read that last spoiler as a back and forth between the Lutece twins?
So, having had a bit more time to digest the game, I have some questions. Warning, MAJOR spoilers.
1) The Luteces. What was their angle in all of this? I get that initially they were just in it for the science. Yet after Comstock tried to have them killed, they now essentially exist everywhere and nowhere at once, simultaneously. They also can still clearly interact with the physical world. So... why do they care about any of this? They're essentially gods. Was it just petty revenge against Comstock? They certainly seem to still have some sense of scientific curiosity, but at the same time they also seem to have a more specific agenda. I just feel like they were lacking solid motivation, which at times made them feel more like plot devices than characters.
2) I'm less interested in what Songbird was than I am in who Songbird was. He's clearly partly biological, and the Fink voxophone strongly implies a person was used in Songbird's construction. The "Booker is Comstock" ending really blindsided me, because I was expecting Songbird to be the alternate Booker, from the past or another reality, where he was captured and turned into Elizabeth's eternal guardian. I sort of wonder if that true in an early draft, since Elizabeth also kills Songbird by submerging him in water. I'm just a bit let down that Songbird didn't get more development, since he featured so heavily in promotional material. Aside from a couple of brief run-ins, you only get two substantial encounters with him.
3) Just how divergent are Booker and Comstock's timelines? I know Comstock was rendered sterile by the Luteces' machinery, but he's also noticeably older in the game. Did he give up his own daughter, and was then rendered sterile? Or did he never have a daughter at all in this reality?
4) Why, exactly, did Elizabeth never just go through a tear to Paris while she was imprisoned? This is mentioned, briefly, in the game, with her saying something about feeling compelled to return to the only "family" she ever knew. I find this insufficient explanation. It feels too much like the writers just ducking the issue, especially since Elizabeth later compares living in her tower to being like death.
General thoughts:
I really enjoyed the game, but like many triple A games these days, it felt very front-loaded. Up til you meet Daisy Fitzroy, everything is perfect. After that, it's still good, but the Finkton and Vox Populi plots are the weakest part of the game, as has been mentioned elsewhere. There's no need to get the airship back from Daisy when you could always steal another, and there's no need to go to another dimension for Li Chen when Elizabeth can already use tears to supply you with guns, and does so regularly.
What they really needed was a more prolonged middle section where you navigate the city, engaging in exploration and maybe some sidequests, dodging both sides, allowing for incidents like this or this, or even this. Daisy and the Vox Populi should have wanted Elizabeth for themselves, to use her power to give them guns and ships and anything else they might need, while Booker and Elizabeth are just searching for another way off Columbia, probably with another big Songbird encounter (maybe even a boss fight of sorts) mid-game to build up the antagonism. Maybe another Comstock appearance as well; he felt a very distant, uninteresting villain until the big revelation. I would have greatly preferred it if the middle section had also more interactions with the citizens, or lengthier sections where you're not fighting. I was very disappointed, upon reaching the area where the Vox Populi were taking over Founders territory, that they became hostile on sight, and you have almost no chance to wander through the chaos and witness its effect on the citizens, aside from that bit with the boat early on.
However, things pick up rapidly in ending, and the game finishes strongly
To clear up number 4. Her powers were impeded by the siphon that was in the tower. So she could only look through tears, not open them completely.
See, I'm not sure the game ever said that. Or, rather,
it's never entirely clear if the siphon is affecting her the whole time, or if it's slowly diminishing in effect and she is gaining more control of her powers. Her powers never really seem to change that much, though, until after she is recaptured and experimented on. They only finally reach their full potential when the siphon is destroyed, which suggests it was inhibiting her all along. Considering she opened a tear and took you from on reality to another two times in Finkton, that would seem to suggest she could open tears whenever.
Also, here's a thought for everybody who has played to the end:
Booker/Comstock was not a rich man. Which means he probably didn't really finance the original Lutece. Which means he/she probably invented their machines in one or more realities, no matter what.
It did say that. Audiologs
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
So I think I'm on the last big fight?
The Vox airfleet is attacking our airship and I've failed twice now. God damn motherfucking shit the songbird's cooldown timer needs to be less. This is super hard!
So, having had a bit more time to digest the game, I have some questions. Warning, MAJOR spoilers.
1) The Luteces. What was their angle in all of this? I get that initially they were just in it for the science. Yet after Comstock tried to have them killed, they now essentially exist everywhere and nowhere at once, simultaneously. They also can still clearly interact with the physical world. So... why do they care about any of this? They're essentially gods. Was it just petty revenge against Comstock? They certainly seem to still have some sense of scientific curiosity, but at the same time they also seem to have a more specific agenda. I just feel like they were lacking solid motivation, which at times made them feel more like plot devices than characters.
2) I'm less interested in what Songbird was than I am in who Songbird was. He's clearly partly biological, and the Fink voxophone strongly implies a person was used in Songbird's construction. The "Booker is Comstock" ending really blindsided me, because I was expecting Songbird to be the alternate Booker, from the past or another reality, where he was captured and turned into Elizabeth's eternal guardian. I sort of wonder if that true in an early draft, since Elizabeth also kills Songbird by submerging him in water. I'm just a bit let down that Songbird didn't get more development, since he featured so heavily in promotional material. Aside from a couple of brief run-ins, you only get two substantial encounters with him.
3) Just how divergent are Booker and Comstock's timelines? I know Comstock was rendered sterile by the Luteces' machinery, but he's also noticeably older in the game. Did he give up his own daughter, and was then rendered sterile? Or did he never have a daughter at all in this reality?
4) Why, exactly, did Elizabeth never just go through a tear to Paris while she was imprisoned? This is mentioned, briefly, in the game, with her saying something about feeling compelled to return to the only "family" she ever knew. I find this insufficient explanation. It feels too much like the writers just ducking the issue, especially since Elizabeth later compares living in her tower to being like death.
General thoughts:
I really enjoyed the game, but like many triple A games these days, it felt very front-loaded. Up til you meet Daisy Fitzroy, everything is perfect. After that, it's still good, but the Finkton and Vox Populi plots are the weakest part of the game, as has been mentioned elsewhere. There's no need to get the airship back from Daisy when you could always steal another, and there's no need to go to another dimension for Li Chen when Elizabeth can already use tears to supply you with guns, and does so regularly.
What they really needed was a more prolonged middle section where you navigate the city, engaging in exploration and maybe some sidequests, dodging both sides, allowing for incidents like this or this, or even this. Daisy and the Vox Populi should have wanted Elizabeth for themselves, to use her power to give them guns and ships and anything else they might need, while Booker and Elizabeth are just searching for another way off Columbia, probably with another big Songbird encounter (maybe even a boss fight of sorts) mid-game to build up the antagonism. Maybe another Comstock appearance as well; he felt a very distant, uninteresting villain until the big revelation. I would have greatly preferred it if the middle section had also more interactions with the citizens, or lengthier sections where you're not fighting. I was very disappointed, upon reaching the area where the Vox Populi were taking over Founders territory, that they became hostile on sight, and you have almost no chance to wander through the chaos and witness its effect on the citizens, aside from that bit with the boat early on.
However, things pick up rapidly in ending, and the game finishes strongly
To clear up number 4. Her powers were impeded by the siphon that was in the tower. So she could only look through tears, not open them completely.
See, I'm not sure the game ever said that. Or, rather,
it's never entirely clear if the siphon is affecting her the whole time, or if it's slowly diminishing in effect and she is gaining more control of her powers. Her powers never really seem to change that much, though, until after she is recaptured and experimented on. They only finally reach their full potential when the siphon is destroyed, which suggests it was inhibiting her all along. Considering she opened a tear and took you from on reality to another two times in Finkton, that would seem to suggest she could open tears whenever.
Well:
prior to the break out she was only able to open windows and pull things through that were right in front of her. She would have never been able to do what the Latices' did (walking between dimensions looking for the perfect heir) with the syphon on. She was only able to do that after she was taken away. I would attribute her "not reaching full potential" to her gradual decline from the story narrative rather than the destruction of the syphon. Before she killed Daisy she was hesitant to use her powers because they were grand and scary and she still held on to the belief she could live a normal life if she just got away. But as the story went along and as she learned more she found out that she just didnt care anymore. The whole Paris arc supports this. For so long all she wanted was to just get away and just experience a "normal" existence. She later learned that this was impossible.
This should help you with your third question Fakefaux
Reality A: DeWitt gets baptized and renames himself Comstock and builds Columbia, but he's sterile.
Reality B: DeWitt does not get baptized, loses his wife in childbirth, and is left in despair, with tons of debt, and a baby named Anna.
Reality A: Lutece's field lets Comstock see Reality B, where his line still continues and since the angel that supposedly visited him, says his line must stay in charge of Columbia, he has the Luteces' pay DeWitt for Anna, taking her to back to Reality A.
Reality A: Fink attempts to kill the Lutece's with their own machine as an accident and end up pushing them outside reality, so they go get Reality B DeWitt, and bring him back to Reality A's lighthouse to go get Elizabeth and return her to Reality B.
In the end of the game, Elizabeth see's that there are infinite realities, with infinite Comstocks, DeWitts, and Elizabeths and to make sure that one of them doesn't spawn some kind of reality transversing super evil Elizabeth and to end it all for good, DeWitt has to die, the moment Comstock was conceived, during his Baptism
At the end of the credits we're left with DeWitt, waking up in his office not knowing if Anna is there as a child or not.
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
There really isn't any particular answer to this, but
after Booker is killed, all the myriad Elizabeths blink out of existence, except for the one he knew. What's the significance of this? Why didn't she disappear as well?
And yes, big spoilers for the end of the game, don't click, etc.
The Vox airfleet is attacking our airship and I've failed twice now. God damn motherfucking shit the songbird's cooldown timer needs to be less. This is super hard!
It really is the worst part of the game in my opinion. Along with
The ghost fights.
Those are the only parts of the game I would change.
Posts
Or History class. It's not so much the flying city and shantytown but the way the racists are.
The vile way Comstock and Fink will sit there and rationalize their bigotry both makes my skin crawl and reminds me of what I learned in high school and college.
I swear it said gameplay menu. I checked options and it is certainly not there.
That might have been the stupidest thing I've ever seen an NPC do in awhile.
The game better not try to use this against me later on.
*shakes fist*
There's another menu separate from the pause menu that lets you check your upgrades and equip gear. I had the same issue at first. On the xbox it's the back button, on PC I guess just mash your keyboard until you find it?
You can access everything from there.
It's O on PC.
Then again, I could be wrong.
Yeah that's basically it.
Twitter 3DS: 0860 - 3257 - 2516
Upgrades aren't unique to specific vendors, you'll see them again.
To answer your questions:
2. Songbird was basically built out of a hodgepodge of technologies scrabbled together from other worlds, presumable with a person at the core ala the handyman. It's pretty apparent that his role was cut down quite a bit, I guess because it was hard to make him a serious, constant threat without raising the question of why he doesn't just squash Booker.
3. People are still debating when Booker has Anna/Elizabeth. Some people think it has to be before the baptism, because the only way the ending fixes everything is if giving up Anna is what results in the Booker/Comstock split. Other people point out that it's fairly silly that Booker would rename himself after the guy that took his daughter, not recognize Robert Lutece as the fucker who on Comstock's behalf took his daughter, and then send Robert to another universe and....take his daughter. Also, Comstock appears older for the same reason he's impotent and riddled with cancer-the Lutece machines. There's a voxophone at the end that explains this. He is still Booker's age.
4. Elizabeth doesn't have terribly good control over her powers due to the syphon, and even when she goes over to another universe she sort of mucks it up. It's not an exact science, and presumably she's not sure if she can actually get herself to a version of Paris that she wants to be in.
As people have said upgrades are not vendor specific, but there's also simply not nearly enough money in the game to buy everything. You will need to decide what you want to do and prioritize appropriately.
I mean now we know that there are shared constants (I take it it's the assumption that Jack is the Rapture version of Booker) but I suppose you could have that same framework but still tell a different story.
I believe that's the entire point of calling it Bioshock: Infinite.
When Don Corleone makes you an offer... you don't refuse, no matter who you have to fight.
To clear up number 4. Her powers were impeded by the siphon that was in the tower. So she could only look through tears, not open them completely.
PSN: ChemENGR
"You can change the difficulty in the options menu. We promise not to tell anyone."
Holy shit
also, lutece twins for characters of the fucking year
Can someone tell me (really early game)
I tried this a billion times, only the right one lit. Left one didn't seem to work, never opened.
plays out the same either way
Yeah, I really enjoyed the Lutece twins.
What the hell is this thing? An explosive shotgun?
ENDING
LIKE SERIOUSLY ONLY ONE SPOILER TAG DEEP
and with the implied time loop Booker was stuck in
When that song started playing again and you walked forward to fill in the circle of people in the river, i think i gasped out loud at how well everything came together
if i hadn't been spoiled, when Booker says you're going to kill Comstock when he was born and then you step back out into the river, i would have gone insane
Was that really
I imagine them somewhat like
Or just guilt. Or a combination of all of these.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
See, I'm not sure the game ever said that. Or, rather,
Also, here's a thought for everybody who has played to the end:
It did say that. Audiologs
Well:
Reality B: DeWitt does not get baptized, loses his wife in childbirth, and is left in despair, with tons of debt, and a baby named Anna.
Reality A: Lutece's field lets Comstock see Reality B, where his line still continues and since the angel that supposedly visited him, says his line must stay in charge of Columbia, he has the Luteces' pay DeWitt for Anna, taking her to back to Reality A.
Reality A: Fink attempts to kill the Lutece's with their own machine as an accident and end up pushing them outside reality, so they go get Reality B DeWitt, and bring him back to Reality A's lighthouse to go get Elizabeth and return her to Reality B.
In the end of the game, Elizabeth see's that there are infinite realities, with infinite Comstocks, DeWitts, and Elizabeths and to make sure that one of them doesn't spawn some kind of reality transversing super evil Elizabeth and to end it all for good, DeWitt has to die, the moment Comstock was conceived, during his Baptism
At the end of the credits we're left with DeWitt, waking up in his office not knowing if Anna is there as a child or not.
And yes, big spoilers for the end of the game, don't click, etc.
It really is the worst part of the game in my opinion. Along with
Those are the only parts of the game I would change.