AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Well, if you're straight and plan on having kids, you may be the parent of someone who is LGBT, so I'd say it's pretty much a concern for everyone who isn't a horrible person.
It's always nice to be on the right side of history before circumstance forces decision upon you.
You know, finding a political cartoon featuring a Tsunami destroying America with a wave of gay is much harder than you'd expect.
Regardless, I made it a personal game to go find one to make a complete set involving tidal waves.
I only regret having to settle with a more unprofessional-looking cartoon. Oh well.
Except at no point did she call them lesser people.
Not approving of a person doing X thing does not mean you think they're horrific abominations who must be stoned. People are attributing a shit ton more hyperbole to a statement than it has. Which is pretty much none. Unless anyone in here thinks anyone who does something they personally don't approve of is subhuman garbage.
She is essentially saying "Yall gon burn in hell, but that's okay"
Or she's saying nothing
In no case is what she's saying supportive
Only in this thread could "Don't hate gay people" be considered not supportive.
It's a comment in the same vein as "Bless your heart."
Or better yet, "I'll pray for you."
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
I find the phrase "straight ally" super weird. I don't think anyone's ever called me that before, and I certainly don't define myself an "ally" of the gay rights movement. That word just makes me think of like supply trains and strategic geopolitical alliances. Like, allies eventually stop being allies, they're working together but are by definition fundamentally separate. I'm not "pro-gay", I'm pro equality and pro treating all people with respect. And I don't consider my support for equal treatment under the law to be some sort of magnanimous gesture because of how kind I am. I support good schools in my community even though I don't have kids because I don't want to live in a community of stupid people, and I support gay rights and minority rights because I want to live in a free and fair democracy, and I don't want to live in a shitty-ass 18th century theocracy.
I dunno, I guess it's not really that simple either, but I just find it weird when people act like if you're straight you can just pick up and walk away from gay rights at no cost. The stakes are obviously not the same, but I still feel like I have a personal stake in gay rights succeeding, just like I have an interest in women being treated equally and fairly despite me not being female. I want people to be treated right, because I'm also a person, and that's a far more important bond than skin color or who you want to have sex with, at least to me.
Uh that might've turned a little heavier than I was intending, but yeah.
I think the difference between someone who'd consider themselves a feminist and queer ally and you is their self identification as an ally (and feminist, if you don't identify as one).
I think for the most part it's the most concise way to say "I support gay rights and gay people."
Or another way of looking at it is that a lot of allies base their.. ally..ness.. in believing in free rights and stuff.
It's complex. Identification and politics always are.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I consider myself a feminist and a LGBT advocate.
I've never felt particularly smug about either of those things, but that's because it's hard to make a case for NOT being those things that doesn't end up arguing that you're a giant asshole.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Yeah I'm a feminist.
I don't feel smug about that at all since it's so mundane and something I think people should be anyway.
It's so woven into my life that I don't even think about it anymore.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I realize that I'm on the tail end of the conversation and at least one of the interested parties has backed out, but I'd like to add my voice to the chorus.
The thing about that girl's facebook post is that, to individuals who have previously been a part of the anti-gay, evangelical Christian crowd in the past, the phrasing and sentiment of the post are clearly recognizable from personal experience as how people in that group express that sentiment to the outside world. It is the way they say "I do not believe gays should be allowed to marry" in a way that does not make reference to the Bible, which they realize their audience does not accept as authoritative source. So, admittedly, there is not much in the text itself that explicitly translates to "Gays will burn in Hell and I will not have my country turn into the Sodom Below." But if an evangelical is going to tell you that they think gays shouldn't be allowed to marry and they're trying to be polite about it, that's how it's going to come out. I (and the others in this thread of a similar opinion) have heard it coming out of evangelicals enough times to feel confident that darker thoughts lurk beneath the pleasant veneer.
More to the point, I've never heard someone who does support the right of gays to marry say something like that. The mildest support I've heard for the idea is "Makes no difference to me."
And with that, my apologies for opening old wounds.
---
As for "WTF is a 'straight ally'", I'd say it's a matter of degree. Are you protesting? Is it a hot topic with you? Do you call yourself a Straight Ally? Then it's more likely you are than, say, a straight person who, at voting time, takes gay rights into consideration.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
If you've got a tumour, isn't it at least better that it's benign than malignant?
Making it socially unacceptable and in some cases illegal to be openly homophobic is the first step to getting rid of the problem.
Can't make it illegal; that's not how this country works. As for making it socially unacceptable, that is pretty much the case in mainstream society already. The problem is that there is an exceptionally large fringe society that, much like with racists, have very few fucks to give about our opinion of them.
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
If you've got a tumour, isn't it at least better that it's benign than malignant?
Making it socially unacceptable and in some cases illegal to be openly homophobic is the first step to getting rid of the problem.
Can't make it illegal; that's not how this country works. As for making it socially unacceptable, that is pretty much the case in mainstream society already. The problem is that there is an exceptionally large fringe society that, much like with racists, have very few fucks to give about our opinion of them.
For people who give so few fucks, they sure do make a big whiney fuss about being "persecuted" and "anti-christian discrimination" when they're told that no, extending their homophobia past certain limits is against the law.
Bill O'Reilly, attacking Laura Ingraham defending his claim that if you're trying to attack same-sex marriage by "thumping the bible" you'll lose, because you have no argument.
If you've got a tumour, isn't it at least better that it's benign than malignant?
Making it socially unacceptable and in some cases illegal to be openly homophobic is the first step to getting rid of the problem.
Can't make it illegal; that's not how this country works. As for making it socially unacceptable, that is pretty much the case in mainstream society already. The problem is that there is an exceptionally large fringe society that, much like with racists, have very few fucks to give about our opinion of them.
For people who give so few fucks, they sure do make a big whiney fuss about being "persecuted" and "anti-christian discrimination" when they're told that no, extending their homophobia past certain limits is against the law.
Alright, might have been more accurate to say I have absolutely no fucks to give about what they think of my opinion of them.
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
Bill O'Reilly, attacking Laura Ingraham defending his claim that if you're trying to attack same-sex marriage by "thumping the bible" you'll lose, because you have no argument.
Bill O'Reilly, attacking Laura Ingraham defending his claim that if you're trying to attack same-sex marriage by "thumping the bible" you'll lose, because you have no argument.
Bill O'Reilly, attacking Laura Ingraham defending his claim that if you're trying to attack same-sex marriage by "thumping the bible" you'll lose, because you have no argument.
Bill O'Reilly, telling her that she's a fool for buying into the garbage that private beliefs should affect public policy.
WTF, O'Reilly asking her if she understands the difference between private belief and public policy, her response is "I guess I'm not well educated"? When the hell did that become an acceptable defence for your positions that she's proud to use like some ace up her sleeve?
Bill O'Reilly, attacking Laura Ingraham defending his claim that if you're trying to attack same-sex marriage by "thumping the bible" you'll lose, because you have no argument.
WTF, O'Reilly asking her if she understands the difference between private belief and public policy, her response is "I guess I'm not well educated"? When the hell did that become an acceptable defence for your positions that she's proud to use like some ace up her sleeve?
It's part of the Ivory Tower thing. Well educated people are branded the enemy. But she was probably just being sarcastic in that instance, however the audience she wants to play to, would be proud to say it as well, because they just know simple plain truths, not none of all that higher level liberal jibber jabber what dont make no sense a'tall
More good news! Bisbee's city council voted, 5-2, to pass a measure allowing civil ceremonies, becoming the first city in Arizona to officially allow same-sex civil unions.
I don't feel smug about that at all since it's so mundane and something I think people should be anyway.
It's so woven into my life that I don't even think about it anymore.
Agreed, to the point where when suddenly someone utters "feminist" as an epithet, I get confused and worried.
Much the same as using "elitist" or "intellectual" in the same capacity.
"What you're think you're so smart and treat people like equals or something? Like some kind of jerk?"
I've found that, in practice, the affiliation is a lot like "conservative." Members of the group will tell you that it's anyone who believes in freedom, but anyone paying attention can see that anyone who doesn't believe that making sure the poor don't starve is socialism is not a true member.
I don't feel smug about that at all since it's so mundane and something I think people should be anyway.
It's so woven into my life that I don't even think about it anymore.
Agreed, to the point where when suddenly someone utters "feminist" as an epithet, I get confused and worried.
Much the same as using "elitist" or "intellectual" in the same capacity.
"What you're think you're so smart and treat people like equals or something? Like some kind of jerk?"
I've found that, in practice, the affiliation is a lot like "conservative." Members of the group will tell you that it's anyone who believes in freedom, but anyone paying attention can see that anyone who doesn't believe that making sure the poor don't starve is socialism is not a true member.
It is Socialism. The problem is the conflation between Socialism and Communism, and the idea that all socialism is bad.
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
Regarding being an ally, that is how I identify myself. It never really occurred to me to need to add "Straight" in front of it.
... I sometimes also identify myself as "One of the oppressors" (being a tall hetero Caucasian male in his early 30's, I could easily be one based on raw privilege alone, like woah), but that's mainly because it makes one of my best friends (who happens to be a lesbian) laugh.
She'd also often counter that while I wasn't 'a villager' per se, I did live in 'the village' (until recently I'd happened to live on the edge of Toronto's gayborhood), which I thought was a nice way of putting it.
Hey in a thread where someone saying you should love people regardless of your religious beliefs is akin to calling those people an abomination why hold back?
I think we can all agree that the real abomination here is Facebook.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I'm actually really surprised this issue has such an even divide between the Supreme Court, what with all these recent starch Conservatives eventually giving in to supporting Gay Marriage. I thought it would be a shoe-in for overturning Prop 8 at least, and the long, drawn-out battle was going to focus on actual Marriage Equality for the country.
Well when the Supreme Court brings up how 'Politicians are falling over themselves to support Gay Marriage' during their own hearing, you'd think they'd factor it into their decision!
Posts
It's always nice to be on the right side of history before circumstance forces decision upon you.
Regardless, I made it a personal game to go find one to make a complete set involving tidal waves.
I only regret having to settle with a more unprofessional-looking cartoon. Oh well.
Or better yet, "I'll pray for you."
I think the difference between someone who'd consider themselves a feminist and queer ally and you is their self identification as an ally (and feminist, if you don't identify as one).
I think for the most part it's the most concise way to say "I support gay rights and gay people."
Or another way of looking at it is that a lot of allies base their.. ally..ness.. in believing in free rights and stuff.
It's complex. Identification and politics always are.
I've never felt particularly smug about either of those things, but that's because it's hard to make a case for NOT being those things that doesn't end up arguing that you're a giant asshole.
I don't feel smug about that at all since it's so mundane and something I think people should be anyway.
It's so woven into my life that I don't even think about it anymore.
Agreed, to the point where when suddenly someone utters "feminist" as an epithet, I get confused and worried.
Much the same as using "elitist" or "intellectual" in the same capacity.
"What you're think you're so smart and treat people like equals or something? Like some kind of jerk?"
Steam
The thing about that girl's facebook post is that, to individuals who have previously been a part of the anti-gay, evangelical Christian crowd in the past, the phrasing and sentiment of the post are clearly recognizable from personal experience as how people in that group express that sentiment to the outside world. It is the way they say "I do not believe gays should be allowed to marry" in a way that does not make reference to the Bible, which they realize their audience does not accept as authoritative source. So, admittedly, there is not much in the text itself that explicitly translates to "Gays will burn in Hell and I will not have my country turn into the Sodom Below." But if an evangelical is going to tell you that they think gays shouldn't be allowed to marry and they're trying to be polite about it, that's how it's going to come out. I (and the others in this thread of a similar opinion) have heard it coming out of evangelicals enough times to feel confident that darker thoughts lurk beneath the pleasant veneer.
More to the point, I've never heard someone who does support the right of gays to marry say something like that. The mildest support I've heard for the idea is "Makes no difference to me."
And with that, my apologies for opening old wounds.
---
As for "WTF is a 'straight ally'", I'd say it's a matter of degree. Are you protesting? Is it a hot topic with you? Do you call yourself a Straight Ally? Then it's more likely you are than, say, a straight person who, at voting time, takes gay rights into consideration.
I think "straight ally" became a "thing" when it was much harder to find ANY straight people who believed in gay rights.
It sounds outdated because it is.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
GJ Uraguay though, overcoming its homophobic name calling and legalizing gay marriage.
Can't make it illegal; that's not how this country works. As for making it socially unacceptable, that is pretty much the case in mainstream society already. The problem is that there is an exceptionally large fringe society that, much like with racists, have very few fucks to give about our opinion of them.
- John Stuart Mill
For people who give so few fucks, they sure do make a big whiney fuss about being "persecuted" and "anti-christian discrimination" when they're told that no, extending their homophobia past certain limits is against the law.
You're a terrible person for not letting them be terrible people, or something.
It's the War on Christmas in a nutshell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COLjgln-70s&feature=player_embedded
Bill O'Reilly, telling her that she's a fool for buying into the garbage that private beliefs should affect public policy.
Alright, might have been more accurate to say I have absolutely no fucks to give about what they think of my opinion of them.
- John Stuart Mill
Broken clock, etc.
Y U INSULT, BILL?
"I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just saying if we try to win this on bible thumping we got nothing"
Y U INSULT BELIEFS BILL?
"You're retarded"
There are no winners here.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Eh
He's no Shephard Smith but Bill O has long been more reasonable than most of Fox
That's like saying Mussolini was more reasonable than most dictators.
It's part of the Ivory Tower thing. Well educated people are branded the enemy. But she was probably just being sarcastic in that instance, however the audience she wants to play to, would be proud to say it as well, because they just know simple plain truths, not none of all that higher level liberal jibber jabber what dont make no sense a'tall
Steam
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I've found that, in practice, the affiliation is a lot like "conservative." Members of the group will tell you that it's anyone who believes in freedom, but anyone paying attention can see that anyone who doesn't believe that making sure the poor don't starve is socialism is not a true member.
- John Stuart Mill
... I sometimes also identify myself as "One of the oppressors" (being a tall hetero Caucasian male in his early 30's, I could easily be one based on raw privilege alone, like woah), but that's mainly because it makes one of my best friends (who happens to be a lesbian) laugh.
She'd also often counter that while I wasn't 'a villager' per se, I did live in 'the village' (until recently I'd happened to live on the edge of Toronto's gayborhood), which I thought was a nice way of putting it.
I think we can all agree that the real abomination here is Facebook.