Klingons are great enemies, when they are sophisticated warrior-philosophers-poets with complicated motivations and honor.
We will probably get "bad TNG"/Voyager/ "bad DS9" Klingons though, since raaag screaming near-mindless enemies with confusing or conflicting motivations is all we have seen out of the new franchise.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
Actually having the Klingons as the main bad guys would be good. So far, they've just been background.
Mainly I don't want a simple "Enterprise crew vs. The Enemy" plot, because we've had this twice now. There was some lip service towards making Nero and Khan more complex/tragic, but nothing substantial.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Actually having the Klingons as the main bad guys would be good. So far, they've just been background.
Who were the three Klingons from TOS that showed up in DS9? Kor, and some other K names?
Let's have them vs Enterprise.
Spock asking old-Spock advice. On the main viewscreen, on the bridge. I guess that whole bit about having an alternate version of himself from a future alternate universe is something they're not keeping secret but decided to be pretty open about...
Not that open. They didn't reveal the details about what he told Spock. I also liked how Spock Prime explained why he isn't giving the crew tips on everything.
Man, as a relative newcomer to the Star Trek universe, you all make it hard to want to watch anything post-TNG. I've seen all of TNG and most of TOS, and was excited about watching more, but now I'm conflicted!
Man, as a relative newcomer to the Star Trek universe, you all make it hard to want to watch anything post-TNG. I've seen all of TNG and most of TOS, and was excited about watching more, but now I'm conflicted!
Nah. DS9 is genuinely enjoyable, getting better as it goes. The first season has some .. mediocre episodes, but it gets much better - And even in the first seasons you have absolutely incredible gems like "Duet" (regarded by some as the best episode of Trek ever).
Voyager is just mediocre until Jeri Ryan arrives. She was originlly brought in for T&A, but fortunately she just acted her way out of that. Any episode heavily featuring Seven of Nine or the Doctor is pretty damn great. All in all I'd say Voyager can be watched much easier today, when you just can ignore the bad episodes and go to the next ones.
Enterprise has a very bad beginning... The last season (apart from the last episode, there is a "better last episode" right before it) is really good, the rest mostly sucks
So.
DS9: Very good. Watch it!
Voy: Mediocre, but enjoyable. If an episode seems annoying, just skip.
Enterprise: Best grab a list of good episodes from season 1-3, watch those, and then Season 4.
To be honest, I'd find it hard to recommend anything other than DS9, and season 1 (apart from some highlights) of that one is badly dated. Voyager strikes me as such a relict of when TV was simpler and more childlike, and I simply don't have any interest in revisiting that unless the characters are really, really good. Compared to most of the Voyager crew (pre-Seven), even Deanna Troi is a good character, and they haven't got anyone approaching the level of Picard or Data.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I think I've come up with a fun game. If you could pick people from any series or movie of Star Trek, who would you assemble to be the dream crew of a starship.
Let's say you've only got 7 slots and you have to fill in the jobs (captain, engineer, doctor) with relevant crewmembers. For me it would be:
Captain: Jean-Luc Picard
First Officer: Kira Nerys
Security/Tactical: Tuvok
Doctor: The Doctor
Engineering: Scotty from the reboot
Helm: Data
Ancillary Character: Guinan
I'd also have Jadzia Dax in the pilot episode just so she can take a disruptor blast to the face and die painfully.
For me it's not about having my favorite character for each slot, it's about creating a crew with an entertaining chemistry. For example, I like Riker more than Nerys, but Nerys would serve as a better catalyst that is more combative with the calm characters like Picard, Data, and Tuvok. Plus, you want to avoid a sausage fest. Or monochromity, hence Tuvok instead of Spock. But I do kind of prefer Tuvok, he is the ideal example of a Vulcan and it's painful how much Star Trek in general lacks that. They're usually played very passive-aggressive.
I'll definitely give each series a good fighting chance. I watch one episode of Star Trek each morning with my oatmeal and coffee, so I'll make it through TOS within another month. Which series should I watch next?
I'll definitely give each series a good fighting chance. I watch one episode of Star Trek each morning with my oatmeal and coffee, so I'll make it through TOS within another month. Which series should I watch next?
Definitely DS9. And don't get discouraged from bad episodes in the first 3 seasons - it really takes off with the start of the fourth. From then on it is pretty much pure awesomesauce.
Season 1 of DS9 is ... tragic.
the majority sucks ass, however past that season it's a steady climb up in quality as the terrible people involved all move to Voyager.
With DS9, you can pretty much watch the pilot, watch Watlz, then skip to the end of season 2 and watch The Jem'hadar and The Search. After that, shit gets real and there's a driving concern hanging over the entire series. The most interesting thing you'll miss is Odo chasing an emu around the station and demonstrating why they call alien animals things like "Tarkalian hawk" and "Arcturan iguana," instead of the native word for it.
If you can survive TNG season 1, though, you'll actually enjoy DS9 season 1. It's probably the least awful season 1 of the modern Trek series. They do refrain from having the Planet of the Black People hitting spears together or suggesting that Native Americans were savage and unintelligent until they met magical white people from space. DS9 waited until the last season to be overtly offensive, and even that they dressed up in wacky Ferengi hijinks.
Between Khan's healing blood and the first film's Transwarp Beaming, I wonder if every film in this series is going to introduce an alarmingly significant scientific advancement and then completely ignore its implications.
Maybe Star Trek 3 has Chekov fight off an army of Klingons by using the transporter to create a thousand clones of himself. "Well, that was useful, but let's never discuss this again."
Oh, I loved TNG. The first season definitely started (with Q) on an odd note, but it was amazing after that. I'll do DS9 next then, once I finish up TOS.
Between Khan's healing blood and the first film's Transwarp Beaming, I wonder if every film in this series is going to introduce an alarmingly significant scientific advancement and then completely ignore its implications.
Maybe Star Trek 3 has Chekov fight off an army of Klingons by using the transporter to create a thousand clones of himself. "Well, that was useful, but let's never discuss this again."
Well to be fair, they did mention the trans-warp beaming in the second film.
It was confiscated by Section 31 after the first film, and Khan uses it to escape to Qo'Nos.
Between Khan's healing blood and the first film's Transwarp Beaming, I wonder if every film in this series is going to introduce an alarmingly significant scientific advancement and then completely ignore its implications.
Maybe Star Trek 3 has Chekov fight off an army of Klingons by using the transporter to create a thousand clones of himself. "Well, that was useful, but let's never discuss this again."
Well to be fair, they did mention the trans-warp beaming in the second film.
It was confiscated by Section 31 after the first film, and Khan uses it to escape to Qo'Nos.
Sure, but it was used in a really limited way, just to get a villain from point a to point b.
Speaking of Chekov, what the hell is his job on the ship?
In the first movie he's the ensign on the bridge who does the announcements, but turns out he's also an expert transporter chief. By the second movie he's next in line as engineering chief, even though he's not even in engineering. I take it he took the Tom Paris Starfleet training course that makes you an expert at absolutely everything?
Somewhat unrelated but:
It occurs to me that Chekov and Khan never meet in this movie. If they bring back Khan in a future movie I really look forward to his line about how he remembers Chekov from the Enterprise :P
Between Khan's healing blood and the first film's Transwarp Beaming, I wonder if every film in this series is going to introduce an alarmingly significant scientific advancement and then completely ignore its implications.
Maybe Star Trek 3 has Chekov fight off an army of Klingons by using the transporter to create a thousand clones of himself. "Well, that was useful, but let's never discuss this again."
Well to be fair, they did mention the trans-warp beaming in the second film.
It was confiscated by Section 31 after the first film, and Khan uses it to escape to Qo'Nos.
Sure, but it was used in a really limited way, just to get a villain from point a to point b.
Well... yeah. What else would it be used for?
The good guys can't use it at all since they don't have it. Khan uses it to escape from his damaged ship to Qo'Nos, which makes sense (the escape part, not the going to Qo'Nos part). Once on Qo'Nos, he's got no reason to use it until the Enterprise arrives. And when the Enterprise arrives he realizes his crew is on it and doesn't want to escape anymore, he wants to surrender and be taken onboard. After he surrenders he doesn't have access to his transporter anymore. The Section 31 super-warship presumably has trans-warp transporters as well, but no one on it has any reason to beam anywhere. So there's really no other point in the movie that this transporter could have been used in.
with the 'Lazarus of the week' telegraphed I doubt anyone was really all that surprised at the twist. So without the 'homage' element it was just going through the paces at the end.
Between Khan's healing blood and the first film's Transwarp Beaming, I wonder if every film in this series is going to introduce an alarmingly significant scientific advancement and then completely ignore its implications.
Maybe Star Trek 3 has Chekov fight off an army of Klingons by using the transporter to create a thousand clones of himself. "Well, that was useful, but let's never discuss this again."
the worst part is they could have handwaved away Khan's transporter being soooooo good by saying "he made special modifications we have no idea how he did it", because Khan is a super genius
Between Khan's healing blood and the first film's Transwarp Beaming, I wonder if every film in this series is going to introduce an alarmingly significant scientific advancement and then completely ignore its implications.
Maybe Star Trek 3 has Chekov fight off an army of Klingons by using the transporter to create a thousand clones of himself. "Well, that was useful, but let's never discuss this again."
Well to be fair, they did mention the trans-warp beaming in the second film.
It was confiscated by Section 31 after the first film, and Khan uses it to escape to Qo'Nos.
Sure, but it was used in a really limited way, just to get a villain from point a to point b.
Well... yeah. What else would it be used for?
The good guys can't use it at all since they don't have it. Khan uses it to escape from his damaged ship to Qo'Nos, which makes sense (the escape part, not the going to Qo'Nos part). Once on Qo'Nos, he's got no reason to use it until the Enterprise arrives. And when the Enterprise arrives he realizes his crew is on it and doesn't want to escape anymore, he wants to surrender and be taken onboard. After he surrenders he doesn't have access to his transporter anymore. The Section 31 super-warship presumably has trans-warp transporters as well, but no one on it has any reason to beam anywhere. So there's really no other point in the movie that this transporter could have been used in.
It could've been incorporated into Marcus's Section 31 armaments somehow. That would've made Scotty's stake in things more personal, and it would've further emphasized the idea that Starfleet's mission was being perverted by the Admiral's pursuit of war.
And really, if there was no reason for trans-warp to be used after Qo'Nos, that's only because the writers didn't care to invent any. If they'd really thought about what the technology could do, they'd create reasons for using it.
I loved the part where Uhura beams down and keeps stunning Khan with a phaser as he lurches towards her like a human Terminator. The whole Spock sequence where he chases down and fights Khan was incredible.
not sure if sarcastic, but I genuinely loved that bit
Not sarcastic at all. That was one of the movie's best parts.
I thought that was the least awesome action sequence in the movie personally.
I'm glad they gave Uhura something to do to Khan to show her being a badass, even if it wasn't enough to defeat him. Though Khan was lucky she had orders to take him alive otherwise I can imagine she'd have killed him in one shot. I don't think his body could survive a fatal blast.
I was talking to a friend about this the other day.
I liked both Star Trek and Into Darkness, and I'd really like to see something new. But I don't know if I trust the writers of this film and whatever blist director they hire to take over for the threequel with a new idea.
We'll see what the future holds with whoever takes up the reigns when Abrams leaves. Into Darkness sets up a few options to explore
like Khan returning, hostilities increasing with the Klingon Empire, Sector 31 and the Five Year Mission.
The Five Year Mission being interrupted by the Klingons wanting to have a word with Starfleet and Captain Kirk personally would be my best guess. Getting more specific I expect to see a subversion of the plot from The Undiscovered Country.
with the 'Lazarus of the week' telegraphed I doubt anyone was really all that surprised at the twist. So without the 'homage' element it was just going through the paces at the end.
Between Khan's healing blood and the first film's Transwarp Beaming, I wonder if every film in this series is going to introduce an alarmingly significant scientific advancement and then completely ignore its implications.
Maybe Star Trek 3 has Chekov fight off an army of Klingons by using the transporter to create a thousand clones of himself. "Well, that was useful, but let's never discuss this again."
the worst part is they could have handwaved away Khan's transporter being soooooo good by saying "he made special modifications we have no idea how he did it", because Khan is a super genius
But then the sum of the Enterprise Crew parts isn't better than the whole of just Kahn. Each person has a "better" attribute than one attribute of Kahn. Kirk has morals or bravery or something, Spock bested him in combat (somehow) and Scotty invented the transporter (right?) This way, the film says "As a group, if we work as a team, we are S-U-P-E-R we're SUPER! Yes yes, we're SUPER!"
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
To be honest, I'd find it hard to recommend anything other than DS9, and season 1 (apart from some highlights) of that one is badly dated. Voyager strikes me as such a relict of when TV was simpler and more childlike, and I simply don't have any interest in revisiting that unless the characters are really, really good. Compared to most of the Voyager crew (pre-Seven), even Deanna Troi is a good character, and they haven't got anyone approaching the level of Picard or Data.
I dunno man, there's Tom Paris who's in the holodeck again living out yet another early 20th century fantasy scenario.
I really wish they'd start exploring new territory with Star Trek, instead of remaking old plots over and over. I mean, JJ Abrams created an entirely new universe in the first film, and by the second film he's already out of ideas and remaking the TOS movies while we're speculating over which movie they'll remake next?
So what is the difference between being frozen forever and being killed other than the hypothetical being unfrozen that will never ever happen unless they really fuck up?
In Space Seed, it made sense as they were getting the hell out of Dodge after their dictatorship fell with being frozen the only way to effectively space travel in those days.
So what is the difference between being frozen forever and being killed other than the hypothetical being unfrozen that will never ever happen unless they really fuck up?
In Space Seed, it made sense as they were getting the hell out of Dodge after their dictatorship fell with being frozen the only way to effectively space travel in those days.
So what is the difference between being frozen forever and being killed other than the hypothetical being unfrozen that will never ever happen unless they really fuck up?
In Space Seed, it made sense as they were getting the hell out of Dodge after their dictatorship fell with being frozen the only way to effectively space travel in those days.
that's so one day Khan and holographic Moriarty can get revenge on the Federation and the Enterprise piloted by Captain Wesley Crusher will be the only thing between them and the complete destruction of the known universe.
Same difference as in Demolition Man: Society no longer has a barbaric death penalty, but still has criminals bad enough to justify using it, so they need a pretty-much-death penalty, and for some reason a punishment in which the guilty goes to sleep and then wakes up an arbitrary time in the future having experienced no passage of time makes sense to writers.
With DS9, you can pretty much watch the pilot, watch Watlz, then skip to the end of season 2 and watch The Jem'hadar and The Search. After that, shit gets real and there's a driving concern hanging over the entire series. The most interesting thing you'll miss is Odo chasing an emu around the station and demonstrating why they call alien animals things like "Tarkalian hawk" and "Arcturan iguana," instead of the native word for it.
I assume you mean Duet, the 1st season musically-named episode with the crazy Cardassian genocider, and not Waltz, the 6th season musically-named episode with the crazy Cardassian genocider.
So what is the difference between being frozen forever and being killed other than the hypothetical being unfrozen that will never ever happen unless they really fuck up?
In Space Seed, it made sense as they were getting the hell out of Dodge after their dictatorship fell with being frozen the only way to effectively space travel in those days.
None, really.
Well, lazy storytelling plot resolution.
So they can be woken up thousands of years from now, and find that society has passed them by, and that everything they ever cared about is gone! Like In The Neutral Zone. And... also one other episode from each series, I think. Psychological trauma punishment!
If I were under the demolition man judicial system, I'd be murdering people. I'd love to spend 100 years in cryogenic sleep then wake up in the future with knowledge of knitting and lots of available taco bell locations.
I assume you mean Duet, the 1st season musically-named episode with the crazy Cardassian genocider, and not Waltz, the 6th season musically-named episode with the crazy Cardassian genocider.
Urp, yeah, that's the one. Similar themed episodes with similarly themed names. I should know better, though.
So they can be woken up thousands of years from now, and find that society has passed them by, and that everything they ever cared about is gone! Like In The Neutral Zone. And... also one other episode from each series, I think. Psychological trauma punishment!
Weren't the people in The Neutral Zone frozen willingly, though? The one guy in particular seemed to have done it mostly as a way to cheat the compound interest on his bank accounts. Boy was he thrilled to wake up two hundred years after Earth abolished money.
If I were under the demolition man judicial system, I'd be murdering people. I'd love to spend 100 years in cryogenic sleep then wake up in the future with knowledge of knitting and lots of available taco bell locations.
Sure you say that now, but imagine waking in a dystopian hellscape where the Arby's Underground had violently stolen control of the world food markets from Taco Bell.
Granted, you can knit and can find the places that used to be Taco Bells, but now all you find there is roast beef sandwiches and curly fries.
Does anyone else think it isn't entirely fair or accurate to say that Into Darkness is a remake? They set themselves up for it, admittedly, but structurally and thematically the film is pretty different.
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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Klingons are great enemies, when they are sophisticated warrior-philosophers-poets with complicated motivations and honor.
We will probably get "bad TNG"/Voyager/ "bad DS9" Klingons though, since raaag screaming near-mindless enemies with confusing or conflicting motivations is all we have seen out of the new franchise.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Why don't you just stop reading it then? Cuz there's no way it's worse than the commentary on the commentary on the movie from the Internet.
It's easily worse.
And I only read it when it finds it's way into threads and such through terrible links.
Kor, Kang, Koloth.
the reason being
Voyager is just mediocre until Jeri Ryan arrives. She was originlly brought in for T&A, but fortunately she just acted her way out of that. Any episode heavily featuring Seven of Nine or the Doctor is pretty damn great. All in all I'd say Voyager can be watched much easier today, when you just can ignore the bad episodes and go to the next ones.
Enterprise has a very bad beginning... The last season (apart from the last episode, there is a "better last episode" right before it) is really good, the rest mostly sucks
So.
DS9: Very good. Watch it!
Voy: Mediocre, but enjoyable. If an episode seems annoying, just skip.
Enterprise: Best grab a list of good episodes from season 1-3, watch those, and then Season 4.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Let's say you've only got 7 slots and you have to fill in the jobs (captain, engineer, doctor) with relevant crewmembers. For me it would be:
Captain: Jean-Luc Picard
First Officer: Kira Nerys
Security/Tactical: Tuvok
Doctor: The Doctor
Engineering: Scotty from the reboot
Helm: Data
Ancillary Character: Guinan
I'd also have Jadzia Dax in the pilot episode just so she can take a disruptor blast to the face and die painfully.
For me it's not about having my favorite character for each slot, it's about creating a crew with an entertaining chemistry. For example, I like Riker more than Nerys, but Nerys would serve as a better catalyst that is more combative with the calm characters like Picard, Data, and Tuvok. Plus, you want to avoid a sausage fest. Or monochromity, hence Tuvok instead of Spock. But I do kind of prefer Tuvok, he is the ideal example of a Vulcan and it's painful how much Star Trek in general lacks that. They're usually played very passive-aggressive.
Hehehe
TNG, then DS9. Might as well do them in order.
the majority sucks ass, however past that season it's a steady climb up in quality as the terrible people involved all move to Voyager.
If you can survive TNG season 1, though, you'll actually enjoy DS9 season 1. It's probably the least awful season 1 of the modern Trek series. They do refrain from having the Planet of the Black People hitting spears together or suggesting that Native Americans were savage and unintelligent until they met magical white people from space. DS9 waited until the last season to be overtly offensive, and even that they dressed up in wacky Ferengi hijinks.
Maybe Star Trek 3 has Chekov fight off an army of Klingons by using the transporter to create a thousand clones of himself. "Well, that was useful, but let's never discuss this again."
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Well to be fair, they did mention the trans-warp beaming in the second film.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Somewhat unrelated but:
Well... yeah. What else would it be used for?
the worst part is they could have handwaved away Khan's transporter being soooooo good by saying "he made special modifications we have no idea how he did it", because Khan is a super genius
And really, if there was no reason for trans-warp to be used after Qo'Nos, that's only because the writers didn't care to invent any. If they'd really thought about what the technology could do, they'd create reasons for using it.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
The Five Year Mission being interrupted by the Klingons wanting to have a word with Starfleet and Captain Kirk personally would be my best guess. Getting more specific I expect to see a subversion of the plot from The Undiscovered Country.
FFXIV - Milliardo Beoulve/Sargatanas
Or First Contact if they hire a fucking moron.
I dunno man, there's Tom Paris who's in the holodeck again living out yet another early 20th century fantasy scenario.
In Space Seed, it made sense as they were getting the hell out of Dodge after their dictatorship fell with being frozen the only way to effectively space travel in those days.
None, really.
Well, lazy storytelling plot resolution.
Doom is imminent.
I assume you mean Duet, the 1st season musically-named episode with the crazy Cardassian genocider, and not Waltz, the 6th season musically-named episode with the crazy Cardassian genocider.
So they can be woken up thousands of years from now, and find that society has passed them by, and that everything they ever cared about is gone! Like In The Neutral Zone. And... also one other episode from each series, I think. Psychological trauma punishment!
Weren't the people in The Neutral Zone frozen willingly, though? The one guy in particular seemed to have done it mostly as a way to cheat the compound interest on his bank accounts. Boy was he thrilled to wake up two hundred years after Earth abolished money.
Granted, you can knit and can find the places that used to be Taco Bells, but now all you find there is roast beef sandwiches and curly fries.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods